For whatever reason, there has been a Gox price surge back to $259.
I don't understand it.
What part of "Gox is broke" don't these idiots understand?
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For whatever reason, there has been a Gox price surge back to $259.
I don't understand it.
What part of "Gox is broke" don't these idiots understand?
Same reason people buy LOCK or FTP funds at fraction of their actual value. If mtgox is able to recover some of these people will become millionaires. Just because an exchange is incompetent doesn't;t mean you won't get your money. Can't really fault someone at buying in at 15-30% of bitcoin value.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
ALSO
http://www.forexnews.com/blog/2014/0...drawal-rumors/
So bitcoin were detected leaving MtGox and people are encouraged by this?Quote:
Originally Posted by BetCheckBetSame reason people buy LOCK or FTP funds at fraction of their actual value. If mtgox is able to recover some of these people will become millionaires. Just because an exchange is incompetent doesn't;t mean you won't get your money. Can't really fault someone at buying in at 15-30% of bitcoin value.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
ALSO
http://www.forexnews.com/blog/2014/0...drawal-rumors/
:lol
This isn't too far from my fictional account of the story of MtGox, where they force the price to fall and secretly trade their bitcoin to other exchanges so they can sell at full price.
If MtGox was on the level, they would make a big public deal about the fact that withdrawals are about to start. They wouldn't start doing some in secret, only to be discovered by an eagle-eye bitcoin enthusiast.
No, you're wrong!Quote:
Originally Posted by monsterjQuote:
Originally Posted by Salty_Aus
You really have no idea what you are talking about. I have traded on every major exchange (CME/CBOT/CBOE/LIFFE/DAX/SGX/NIK) as an options market maker and what you are saying has no grounds in reality. People leave resting bids in ALL the time, and your value BS is nonsense. The fact that there is no resting offers, means exactly one thing, the sellers are crossing the market and hitting the bid, hence the market has lots of downward pressure. Unless people place market bids that are larger than the market depth the market doesn't move up, period. The liquidity on these exchanges are minimal, there are no designated market makers, I even reached out to Buttercoin on behalf of my company(a large proprietary trading firm in Chicago that is a designated MM in a bunch of asset classes), and they literally have no idea how to run an exchange, but they are google backed so they think they know what they are doing.
The buyers are active and refilling their orders every time coins are dumped for starters.
Even if sellers are selling to the bidders you would also see sellers at the top of list wanting to be top seller in an attempt to maximize their position.
For 24 hours the price was a solid $260 just before this current situation, orders hugely biased towards buyers and there was not one sell-down!
It's not one single thing that makes me certain this is a Gox charade, it's a combination of many factors.
@ $300 right now, they've probably finished.
Expect Gox to honor all deposits soon!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Salty_Aus
http://www.welovetheiraqiinformation...7-minister.jpg
Love the pic of Baghdad Bob. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by sonatine
My reasoning is they must honour all deposits or they will come under heaps of scrutiny, if everyone eventually gets their coins and cash there is no complaints, and no investigation.
Couple of other things, this malleability issue is not something new... it was 18 months ago when this was first discovered.
You think Gox would say more, but what they've done is be very vague and this just feeds the fear. (hinting there could be a theft, and following up with "security issues")
One other thing to consider.
let's assume you hold several thousand Bitcoins on Mt Gox, you didn't liquidate them @$90... but today when the price was heading in the right direction and starting to look a LOT more favourable. But instead of thinking "ohhh wow I might be golden and get my money back" you liquidate and push the price back down to nearly $150?
I think this is finished now, one more dump maybe but I don't think so.
I'm expecting Gox to say very soon "business back to normal all deposits safe"
$310 and climbing. :)
Let me explain something further.Quote:
Originally Posted by Salty_AusNo, you're wrong!Quote:
Originally Posted by monsterj
The buyers are active and refilling their orders every time coins are dumped for starters.
Even if sellers are selling to the bidders you would also see sellers at the top of list wanting to be top seller in an attempt to maximize their position.
For 24 hours the price was a solid $260 just before this current situation, orders hugely biased towards buyers and there was not one sell-down!
It's not one single thing that makes me certain this is a Gox charade, it's a combination of many factors.
@ $300 right now, they've probably finished.
Expect Gox to honor all deposits soon!
There is VERY LITTLE fiat currency on Mt Gox.
This is not speculation, this is fact. There is fiat currency withdrawals that have been tied up for over three months, there was non-stop complaints about this and everyone was saying Gox was going broke and it was impossible to get cash off the site. With a few people saying not true I have no issues. People were resending withdrawals constantly and everyone wanted cash off their site.
The premium price on Gox was considered proof they were going broke and cash on their site was worth less then face value. Nobody was putting cash on Gox to buy coins $150 over the odds.
People were transferring coins onto Gox though, attempting arbitrage.
The main buyers on Gox are the management!
Everyone is scared Gox is worthless and they lose all of their money.
You think Mt Gox were resending large parcels of coins?... if so I've got a bridge I'd like to sell you.
For the record I first traded shares nearly thirty years ago and I'm certain they're doing this in a sophisticated manner. *shrug*
Been browsing some Bitcoin forums. Seems like a lot of people who bought Bitcoins and sold them for a profit now consider themselves as "professional traders".
virus sweeping digital wallets:
http://www.coindesk.com/pony-botnet-...gital-wallets/
at this point I would say this board has a better grasp of Mt Gox/bitcoin problems than most journalists/bloggers, but this article sums up the Mt Gox demise (which started as a "Magic: The Gathering" trading card website, whatever the fuck that is):
http://valleywag.gawker.com/if-you-h...arah-hedgecock
MtGox chief Mark Karpeles quits Bitcoin Foundation
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-26319247
Quote:
The chief executive of Bitcoin exchange MtGox, Mark Karpeles, has quit the board of the Bitcoin Foundation, which oversees and develops Bitcoin software.
It comes shortly after MtGox halted transfers of the digital currency to external addresses after it spotted what it called "unusual activity".
The halt resulted in a sharp decline in the value of Bitcoins.
Last week, MtGox - one of the largest Bitcoin exchanges - said customers should be able withdraw funds "soon".
Meanwhile, all tweets on MtGox's Twitter account have also been deleted.
The Bitcoin Foundation said that Mr Karpeles's resignation would be "effective immediately".
It is the foundation's second high-profile resignation in the past month.
Another board member, Charles Shrem, stepped down in late January after being arrested and charged with money laundering in connection with his Bitcoin company.
Mr Shrem, the chief executive of New York-based Bitcoin exchange BitInstant, has pleaded not guilty.
The issues with MtGox had sparked a dispute between the exchange and the Bitcoin Foundation.
The Tokyo-based firm said that its investigation into the unusual activity revealed a loophole that could be exploited to fool the transaction process into sending double the correct number of Bitcoins.
It also left it vulnerable to attacks, which slowed down the rate at which coins could be bought and sold.
As it halted the withdrawals, MtGox had suggested that a flaw in the virtual currency's underlying software was to blame for the problem.
"A bug in the Bitcoin software makes it possible for someone to use the Bitcoin network to alter transaction details to make it seem like a sending of Bitcoins to a Bitcoin wallet did not occur when in fact it did occur," it had said in a statement.
"Since the transaction appears as if it has not proceeded correctly, the Bitcoins may be resent."
However, Gavin Andresen, chief scientist at the Bitcoin Foundation, denied the problem was its fault.
"The issues that MtGox has been experiencing are due to an unfortunate interaction between MtGox's highly customised wallet software, their customer support procedures, and an obscure (but long-known) quirk in the way transactions are identified and not due to a flaw in the Bitcoin protocol," he told the BBC earlier this month.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charham
Sudden crash in the non-Gox markets now.
Gox itself saw a crash back to 101, currently at 135, likely triggered by Karpeles resigning from the bitcoin foundation.
But the other markets, which somewhat mirror Gox's volatility but to a lesser extent, are now in the high 400s after never falling that low during other Gox issues.
I have also noticed that these crashes tend to occur during the early evening hours (PST) so maybe there will be a rebound.
holy tapdancing shit
View on scribd here: https://www.scribd.com/doc/209050732/
Crisis Strategy Draft Situation
For several weeks MtGox customers have been affected by bitcoin withdrawal issues that
compounded on themselves. Publicly, MtGox declared that “transaction malleability” caused the
system to be subject to theft, and that something needed to be done by the core devs to fix it.
Gox’s own workaround solution was criticized, and eventually a fix was provided by
Blockchain.info.
The truth, it turns out, is that the damage had already been done.
At this point 744,408 BTC are missing due to malleability-related theft which went
unnoticed for several years. The cold storage has been wiped out due to a leak in the hot
wallet.
The reality is that MtGox can go bankrupt at any moment, and certainly deserves to as a
company. However, with Bitcoin/crypto just recently gaining acceptance in the public eye, the
likely damage in public perception to this class of technology could put it back 5~10 years, and
cause governments to react swiftly and harshly. At the risk of appearing hyperbolic, this could be
the end of Bitcoin, at least for most of the public.
We believe in the value of Bitcoin, its potential to change the world, and its principles of
transparency. Most importantly we care about the customers of MtGox and other bitcoin-based
businesses who will be affected.
The likely consequences will be larger than this localized financial damage, and we believe that
the benefits of keeping MtGox stable and running outweigh the risks. This isn’t about saving
MtGox anymore. To avoid a chaotic situation, we propose:
1- Immediately reduce liabilities as much as possible with partners
With actual assets using arbitrage/ injecting new coins to erase them from the books. Informing and
asking selected Bitcoin main players to ask for their help. The MtGox price is low, making it possible
to erase a significant portion of the debt, but it needs to be done quickly. Injections in coin are most
useful (enough to run the exchange) but some cash is also needed to not run a fractional reserve.
2- Switch off the MtGox exchange temporarily (1 month) while announcing a restructuring and
re-branding
On a freshly branded static homepage, post a letter from Mark Karpelès stepping down as CEO of
MtGox, bringing in transition advisors, and citing poor organization and technology. Moving to a new
country (Singapore?) could be helpful.
3- Push the new branding (ready) and reset all SNS channels for communication:
Using Facebook, Twitter, etc with the new branding, we will give constant updates, changing the tone
of communications and informing stakeholders on all progress: new advisors, team members,
location, fee structure. We need to inspire confidence.
4- Set up a competent team and redesign the service and codebase:
Announce a new CEO, talented developers, and trusted business people to establish a new business
model. ( Finance, marketing strategy, IT, developers, Customer support). Build a low-cost, profitable
business again that gives customers a reason to stay (low fees, stability, etc) while we work off our
debts to stakeholders.
4 Parts StrategyStrategy Timeline
Part 1: Assets/Liabilities and
cover the 624 408 BTC:
! Arbitrage, coins donation, coins for
equity, cash for buying coins at MtGox
price!
!
Target: 50% covered
Now to Feb 25th morning JST Announce on Tuesday 25th morning JST From MtGox to Gox Apr 1st 2014 !
or later
Part 2: Shut down of MtGox for 1
month, with a rebranded landing page
! - Step back from CEO Mark Karpelès!
- Creation of transition advisors backed
by a respected name !
- Fixing the technology and business!
- Give to customers their account history!
!
!
!
!
!
!
Part 4 : Launch of Gox:
! - New platform, new brand, new
management, new services and business
model!
Part 3 : SNS continuous update and project follow up:
! - Following up on projects on new Twitter, Facebook!
- New tonw and demonstration that MtGox is working!
- Gathering world wide experts and establishing the strategy!
- Building the new team!
samir BFinancial Assets and Liabilities
Assets Liabilities
Bitcoins 2,000 BTC
in the Hot Wallet
624,408 BTC(Customers)
+120 000 ( MtGox)
- 80 208 BTC
From banned or suspicious accounts
Fiat
22,430,000 USD
In the bank account
(averaged across currencies)
55,000,000 USD (but still unclear at this
point) 5,000,000 USD
held by CoinLab
5,500,000 USD
held by DHS
Total
! 32,430,000 USD + 2,000 BTC
( MtGox av price 160 USD= 320,000
USD )
55,000,000 USD + 744,408 BTC
(MtGox av price 160 USD= 119,105,280
USD)Other Assets
- 1.1 million of account and 550,000 verified customers
!
- High volume of trading
!
- Trained AML team and process
!
- High publicity (broken but customers are still buying coins and depositing)
!
- Valuable domain names: bitcoins.com, etc
!
- New trading engine (Midas)
!
- New brand and services ready to be launched (Bitcoin Cafe, Japanese wallet "Bitpocket")Part 1: To reduce liabilities
The stakeholders of MtGox are not the owners, but everyone in Bitcoin. This is sad
but the reality.
The current situation will negatively affect everyone who owns or operates in Bitcoin.
We will need to inject fresh coins inside the system in order to establish a basis to
eventually clear the books by running the exchange (perhaps 200,000 coins). The
costs of not doing so are incalculable at this stage.
Support from Bitcoin big players and core community - long term, high
leverage:
Coins for equity, coin donations, and cash injections to buy coins at the cheap
MtGox price are some options among many.
Bet on future profit to refill the lost coins - Long term, low leverage:
Regardless of malleability and regulatory issues, MtGox's main problems are
massive robbery and poor bitcoin accounting. However, the business as an
exchange is highly profitable and healthy when run properly.
(Please refer to the business plan draft attached)
!MtGox business is healthy and profitable
Projection Draft
Income Statement * April 1st, 2012 -
March 31st, 2013
** April 1st, 2013 -
March 31st, 2014
*** April 1st, 2014 -
March 31st, 2015
*** April 1st, 2015 -
March 31st, 2016
(Amounts in thousands of USD
Net Sales 1,351 10,750 31,500 71,950
Cost of Goods Sold 40 100 150 200
Gross Profit 1,311 10,650 31,350 71,750
Selling, General and
Administrative Expenses 1) 1,099 7,635 11,350 15,900
Operating Income 212 3,015 20,000 55,850
Interest Income 6 7 14 40
Foreign Exchange Gains 76 - - -
Non Operating Result 82 7 14 40
Ordinary Income 294 3,022 20,014 55,890
Corporate Taxes 8 1,022 6,164 16,890
Net Income 286 2,000 13,850 39,000
1) Breakdown of Selling, General
and Administrative Expenses
* April 1st, 2012 -
March 31st, 2013
** April 1st, 2013 -
March 31st, 2014
*** April 1st, 2014 -
March 31st, 2015
*** April 1st, 2015 -
March 31st, 2016
(Amounts in thousands of USD
Subcontracting Expenses 2) 814 3,650 6,200 10,000
Accountant, Consultant and Lawyer
Fees 167 3,300 4,000 4,000
Commission Fees 51 340 415 1,000
Depreciation 0 125 360 400
Advertising Expenses 4 75 160 200
Salary 60 105 130 150
Other 3 40 85 150
1,099 7,635 11,350 15,900Part 2: Shut down MtGox.com, launch new branding
Big focus on the future
Letter from the CEO !
!
Admitting his errors and expressing desire to fix the situation by
stepping back as a CEO. Blaming the technology implementation
which was not sized and designed to deal with such level of
transactions or to deal with malleability.!
!
It’s time to step up and face reality by bringing a transition of
respected advisors who will run things properly. !
!
In Japan, a CEO cannot resign until a new CEO is nominated. In that
case customers knows that MtGox is still around and working, but
under new management. Try to reduce the impact and raise
stakeholder confidence, and eventually get Mark out. !
!
New branding, means that there are future-forward plans already in
the works, and customers will see that MtGox actually has a plan in
motionPart 3: 1 month transition while updating the
industry
In order for stakeholders to follow up on MtGox progress, we will use SNS
platforms with constant positive communications.
!
- Every new milestone reached will be announced: Team members, new
marketing, progress on the technology implementation etc...
!
- The Customer support will stay operational to deal with people who
want to have access to their account/history
!
- During this period, the advisory board will be created, hopefully a new
CEO can be chosen and try to reset and secure the trading engine platform.
!
Expertise to find: Analysts, top class developers (crypto), IT security expert,
marketing, Bitcoin experts, economists, execs (CFO, COO, CMO, etc)Part 4: MtGox becomes Gox
To avoid a bank run from customers, the daily amount of bitcoin and cash
withdrawals will be limited.
With the profit, a meticulous analysis will be made over the coming years
to clean the bitcoin balance sheet while running the exchange and
generating revenue to pay back stakeholders.
New offerings such as additional currencies, low trading fees, etc will give
customers a reason to stay with MtGox.
The new branding is already complete, and new services such as the
Bitpocket wallet are already developed and ready for deployment.
With a new image, team, and offering we believe that it will be a
challenge, but is not impossible. The risks of not acting are incredibly
large and unpredictable.
sending a sincere shout out to the troopers who walked away from all this with $375,000,000 worth of stolen bitcoins.
Some happy Russians out there. Gold giraffes for everyone. This story gets more amazing by the day.Quote:
Originally Posted by sonatine
LOL. Fuck!
Fixed sonatine's post to embed the scribd file.
Yes, you can embed scribd here with the scribd tag.
Just use the tag, put the document number (get it from the URL), and then close it with /scribd.
rofl now Mtgox.com not loading for me.
:boom
:kermit
If gox really is insolvent you will honestly probably hear of some suicides in the coming weeks :( Some people had life savings in there.
Coinbase and the rest of the exchanges already writing MtGox's eulogy:
http://blog.coinbase.com/post/777668...egarding-mtgox
Gox stopped trading about 3 hours ago, and now the whole site is down.Quote:
Joint Statement Regarding MtGox
Feb 24th, 2014
The purpose of this document is to summarize a joint statement to the Bitcoin community regarding Mt.Gox.
This tragic violation of the trust of users of Mt.Gox was the result of one company’s actions and does not reflect the resilience or value of bitcoin and the digital currency industry. There are hundreds of trustworthy and responsible companies involved in bitcoin. These companies will continue to build the future of money by making bitcoin more secure and easy to use for consumers and merchants. As with any new industry, there are certain bad actors that need to be weeded out, and that is what we are seeing today.
We are confident, however, that strong Bitcoin companies, led by highly competent teams and backed by credible investors, will continue to thrive, and to fulfill the promise that bitcoin offers as the future of payment in the Internet age.
In order to re-establish the trust squandered by the failings of Mt. Gox, responsible bitcoin exchanges are working together and are committed to the future of bitcoin and the security of all customer funds. As part of the effort to re-assure customers, the following services will be coordinating efforts over the coming days to publicly reassure customers and the general public that all funds continue to be held in a safe and secure manner: Coinbase, Kraken, BitStamp, Circle, and BTC China.
We strongly believe in transparent, thoughtful, and comprehensive consumer protection measures. We pledge to lead the way.
Bitcoin operators, whether they be exchanges, wallet services or payment providers, play a critical custodial role over the bitcoin they hold as assets for their customers. Acting as a custodian should require a high-bar, including appropriate security safeguards that are independently audited and tested on a regular basis, adequate balance sheets and reserves as commercial entities, transparent and accountable customer disclosures, and clear policies to not use customer assets for proprietary trading or for margin loans in leveraged trading.
The following industry leaders stand by this statement:
Fred Ehrsam — Co-founder of Coinbase
Jesse Powell — CEO of Kraken
Nejc Kodrič — CEO of Bitstamp.net
Bobby Lee — CEO of BTC China
Nicolas Cary — CEO of Blockchain.info
Jeremy Allaire — CEO of Circle
Apparently the crisis document was leaked just BEFORE Gox stopped trading, making it look pretty damn authentic given it predicted the halting of trading and the site shutting down.
has micon ever disclosed on what exchange the swc coins are stored on?
:crowd
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillieMcFML
oh dear god
I'd would laugh my ass off if that's the case....I could even see Micon doing something as stupid as pulling money off another site and loading up on shit at mtgox with the hopes of it turning itself around.Quote:
Originally Posted by WillieMcFML
Should be at the Orleans playing 1-3 any day now
that would be epic if micon went from dead broke to multi-millionaire on paper to dead broke again within a year
Seriously. You kind of expect it to be a sophisticated Russian mob operation. But I really hope that it's just one pimply faced genius kid who lives with his parents. He spends all night staring at his millions of dollars on a screen, hands against the sides of his face, thinking "Holy shit...I can't believe that worked." The big question is if someone was, or will be able to spend the money. It's a lot less cool if they didn't actually profit from it. The fact that this went undetected for months and months leads me to think that they would be able to launder it. But if it actually is one hacker kid, he may not have any of the knowledge or contacts needed to do that.Quote:
Originally Posted by sonatine
Assuming that they were able to convert at least half of their take into spendable cash, would this be the most lucrative computer crime in history? I don't know of any 9 figure scores.
For context, 744k BTC is 6% of the total bitcoins in existence.
I went to reddit's /r/bitcoin to see what those guys were saying (mix of gallows humor and naive optimism).
In other bitcoin news- in an attempt to seem young and hip, Playboy Enterprises announced that they will accept bitcoin for their online products....one hour before Gox's announcement.
Even he wouldn't be stupid enough to keep coins on Gox. He probably has them on a thumb drive laying on his kitchen counter.Quote:
Originally Posted by WillieMcFML
I just asked someone at Coinbase about their statement regarding MtGox.
Quote:
Me: i saw the coinbase blog about mtgox. is it confirmed by coinbase that mtgox is broke?
Ken: We don't know about that, they just took their trading offline a few hours ago so it seemed worth making a statement.
From Anonymous on Twitter:
DISASTER! 744,408 BTC missing—Theft went "unnoticed for years"—Leaked #MtGox insolvency document: http://bit.ly/1dro9nc h/t @twobitidiot
Do you believe it?Quote:
Originally Posted by sonatine
They used a vulnerability that has been known about for nearly two years, and Gox just gave them the coins without noticing? (over an extended period of time)
I don't believe anyone could be that incompetent.
Thing I'm noticing about Bitcoins, if you're holding large amounts of other peoples coins... it's really easy to have them stolen without taking the blame.
Quick, someone name the last place that got hacked for tons of bitcoins...
You probably cant. Everyone forgets. There is no repercussions for having your bank get hacked and all your clients bitcoins disappearing.
Start a bitcoin storage site, siphon off bitcoins from people, claim you got hacked, apologize, move to Borneo with everyone's money.
Tydecoin Exchange blowing up in 2014
Im not 100 % sure but I dont think seals used gox
There are no legal repercussions. I assume that the owner of Sheep Marketplace (the Silk Road clone) was tortured for quite a while and then murdered. Actually, a whole bunch of people probably got murdered from that one.Quote:
Originally Posted by DRK Star
This Gox incident is so big and so high profile that the Japanese authorities have to be looking in to it.
Who would have thought a currency used to buy guns, drugs, and stolen credit card info could be so much fail....seemed like a solid investmentQuote:
Originally Posted by DRK Star
source?Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyBThere are no legal repercussions. I assume that the owner of Sheep Marketplace (the Silk Road clone) was tortured for quite a while and then murdered. Actually, a whole bunch of people probably got murdered from that one.Quote:
Originally Posted by DRK Star
This Gox incident is so big and so high profile that the Japanese authorities have to be looking in to it.