So coronavirus is definitely going to kill a few of us.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gimmick

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Here's a quality, apolitical article on aerosol transmission of COVID, and why cloths masks don't work:

https://first10em.com/covid-19-is-sp...idence-review/

It basically destroys most of the arguments from the left regarding COVID prevention and policies. This is NOT a right wing site, and existed long before COVID.

It explains a lot of what has been observed with COVID transmission:

- Superspreader events
- Indoor transmission being way higher than outdoors
- Why people wearing masks, even N95, are getting COVID way more than expected
- Why poor ventilation causes heavy COVID spread
- Why people are transmitting so much without symptoms yet

---

Totally destroys all the arguments, like...

"Although not quite as good as N95s, well fitting surgical masks will still filter out as much as 80% of infectious aerosols. (Makison Booth 2013) Combined with the low infectivity of SARS-CoV-2, these factors keep us relatively safe"

...and...

"There was also some evidence that suggests much lower rates of healthcare worker infections in hospitals that are routinely using N95s or PAPRs."

...still bit of a mystery who you're arguing against with these latest truth bombs, but it's nice to see you now agree that BLM protests did fuckall for infections.

The rights agenda against masks has never been specified to cloth masks. Literally no one in the medical community has said that cloth masks are remarkably useful. Aerosol spread has been highly likely ever since the first cruise ship incidents. Oh and obv the article also supports social distancing. So i have no idea what argument you think that article destroys.

---

Well, why are we not being shipped n95's by the gvmnt then? Fairly certain they told us not to buy them so the frontline workers could have them. The average people are wearing bs masks for no reason. You basically just agreed.

How many people were infected with coronavirus and died because of Donald Trump?


https://img.apmcdn.org/158228a80ff0a...hite-house.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gimmick

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Here's a quality, apolitical article on aerosol transmission of COVID, and why cloths masks don't work:

https://first10em.com/covid-19-is-sp...idence-review/

It basically destroys most of the arguments from the left regarding COVID prevention and policies. This is NOT a right wing site, and existed long before COVID.

It explains a lot of what has been observed with COVID transmission:

- Superspreader events
- Indoor transmission being way higher than outdoors
- Why people wearing masks, even N95, are getting COVID way more than expected
- Why poor ventilation causes heavy COVID spread
- Why people are transmitting so much without symptoms yet

---

Totally destroys all the arguments, like...

"Although not quite as good as N95s, well fitting surgical masks will still filter out as much as 80% of infectious aerosols. (Makison Booth 2013) Combined with the low infectivity of SARS-CoV-2, these factors keep us relatively safe"

...and...

"There was also some evidence that suggests much lower rates of healthcare worker infections in hospitals that are routinely using N95s or PAPRs."

...still bit of a mystery who you're arguing against with these latest truth bombs, but it's nice to see you now agree that BLM protests did fuckall for infections.

The rights agenda against masks has never been specified to cloth masks. Literally no one in the medical community has said that cloth masks are remarkably useful. Aerosol spread has been highly likely ever since the first cruise ship incidents. Oh and obv the article also supports social distancing. So i have no idea what argument you think that article destroys.

---

Maybe the narrative is different in Finland, but in the US, the Democrats and media have been hammering that we'd have had far fewer deaths if only Trump had empahsized masking more.

Cloth masks. Not surgical or N95 masks. Cloth.

You seem to believe that the "medical community" has been critical of the value of cloth masks, but that's not the message here at all. The general message here has been that masking, social distancing, and sanitizing is the safe way to go about life, and we only have a COVID problem because those damn Republicans won't take any of this seriously.

I'm also not saying any of this is new info. Even the article I posted is from November, and the info contained therein was able to have been deduced long before that.

The conlcusions, however, basically prove that the Democrat agenda regarding COVID was completely incorrect, and remains incorrect.

Let me count the ways:

1) Shutting down outdoor dining, parks, and beaches was a huge mistake

2) Emphasizing mask-wearing and social distancing over avoidance of indoor spaces altogether was a huge mistake

3) Putting COVID positive people in nursing homes was a big mistake (hello Cuomo, Whitmer, and the beautiful Rachel Levine!)

4) Continuing to advise vaccinated people to wear cloth masks is a big mistake, especially because this will dissuade some from getting vaxxed at all, if they feel they'll still be stuck adhering to protocols of the unvaccinated.

5) Obsessive cleaning and sanitizing is a waste of time, money, and effort.


I just saw Dr. Fauci appear on some Los Angeles based cable program, describing why it's okay for kids to return to school. "They'll be sanitizing and making sure the kids keep enough distance from one another."

Whoops.


BTW, the BLM protests weren't as innocuous COVID-wise as you think. There's still some danger outdoors if people are packed close together, especially if a lot of shouting is involved. So going to the park or beach is very safe, because you don't have strangers right up in your face. At a big city BLM protest, you do.

So this made me think actually, and now ill look too. I wonder what has been going on with 3M stock price since pre-pandemic, during pandemic, and now moving forward. And 3M is a great Company and deep into many different Markets. I would imagine this pandemic and Mask shortages has lol bumped their stock prices. And 3M is an actual backbone of many peoples investment Portfolios....

#RichGettingRicher

=)

It's from the UK but still pretty good article


Anyone can see no one's obeying Covid rules anymore

 

Quote:

---

Full text - You can see it all around you: people disappearing into other people’s houses, without even a furtive glance to see if anyone is watching; large groups gathering in defiance of the ‘rule of six’, or perhaps ignorance that it is still in place. People who earlier in the year were studiously following the rules are now breaking them in all kinds of little ways. The public has decided that the Covid emergency is over – at least for now – and are regaining their lives by stealth.

By refusing to open up sooner, the government is losing its control of the population. But then was it ever really in control anyway? No doubt Matt Hancock, along with some of the Cabinet’s other native authoritarians, takes personal credit for tackling the Covid crisis by forcing people to socially-distance. Yet evidence points elsewhere: to the public leading the government in efforts to combat the pandemic, not the other way around. Some government advisers have taken to claiming that thousands of lives could have been saved had lockdown been imposed a week earlier than 23 March last year, the day a solemn Boris Johnson told us all to stay at home. But it is a pretty irrelevant argument given that the public had already largely placed itself in self-imposed lockdown.

Just look at the figures for usage of the London Underground. On Thursday 12 March 2020 – the first of government’s daily press briefings, at which the Prime Minister talked of “squashing the sombrero” and Sir Patrick Vallance told us that “it’s not possible to stop everybody getting [Covid]”, tube usage was already down to 81 per cent of what it had been at the beginning of the month.

By the following Monday, when the government’s tone changed after the publication of the famous Imperial paper predicting up to 500,000 deaths form Covid, tube usage had already plunged to 60 per cent. By that Friday it had fallen to just 24 per cent as employers and employees between them made voluntary arrangements to work at home, and by the following Monday, ahead of Johnson’s evening address to the nation, it had plummeted to only 15 per cent. By the time lockdown was imposed, in other words, there wasn’t much left to lock down.
Just as the public led the government into lockdown, so it is leading the government out of lockdown. Last weekend, car traffic was back up to 96 per cent of pre-pandemic levels – in spite of messages which still flicker, pointlessly, from motorway gantries telling us to “minimise travel”. Light commercial traffic is 14 per cent higher than it was before the pandemic.

Those of us who have stood against endless lockdowns, and the petty laws and eyewatering fines used to try to enforce them, have been accused in some quarters of irresponsibility. Yet all we have been doing is appealing for the government to trust our own sense of responsibility rather than try to steamroller us into compliance. With some exceptions, people have shown themselves perfectly able to make their own, reasoned assessment of the risks posed by Covid, and of acting accordingly.

The government’s input has been to tie up that process in regulatory knots, ending with bizarre legal debates as to whether a Scotch egg counts as a substantial meal and so on.
There are serious dangers from trying to command the public into how to behave. As well as creating the bad feeling which surrounds any illiberal regime, living under endless orders blunts our sense of personal responsibility. Just look how some people rushed out to the pub in the few days before the second lockdown came into effect in November. The last chance to do something legally had encouraged them to take risks they wouldn’t have taken had they been left to themselves to decide what was and what wasn’t safe.

There is little purpose to the remaining restrictions on our day to day lives. People can see that the vaccination programme has been a brilliant success and that their risk of coming to serious harm from Covid is now no higher than of succumbing to other diseases. They no longer see why their lives should be put on hold. It is about time the government caught up.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gimmick

Totally destroys all the arguments, like...

"Although not quite as good as N95s, well fitting surgical masks will still filter out as much as 80% of infectious aerosols. (Makison Booth 2013) Combined with the low infectivity of SARS-CoV-2, these factors keep us relatively safe"

...and...

"There was also some evidence that suggests much lower rates of healthcare worker infections in hospitals that are routinely using N95s or PAPRs."

...still bit of a mystery who you're arguing against with these latest truth bombs, but it's nice to see you now agree that BLM protests did fuckall for infections.

The rights agenda against masks has never been specified to cloth masks. Literally no one in the medical community has said that cloth masks are remarkably useful. Aerosol spread has been highly likely ever since the first cruise ship incidents. Oh and obv the article also supports social distancing. So i have no idea what argument you think that article destroys.

---

Maybe the narrative is different in Finland, but in the US, the Democrats and media have been hammering that we'd have had far fewer deaths if only Trump had empahsized masking more.

Cloth masks. Not surgical or N95 masks. Cloth.

You seem to believe that the "medical community" has been critical of the value of cloth masks, but that's not the message here at all. The general message here has been that masking, social distancing, and sanitizing is the safe way to go about life, and we only have a COVID problem because those damn Republicans won't take any of this seriously.

I'm also not saying any of this is new info. Even the article I posted is from November, and the info contained therein was able to have been deduced long before that.

The conlcusions, however, basically prove that the Democrat agenda regarding COVID was completely incorrect, and remains incorrect.

Let me count the ways:

1) Shutting down outdoor dining, parks, and beaches was a huge mistake

2) Emphasizing mask-wearing and social distancing over avoidance of indoor spaces altogether was a huge mistake

3) Putting COVID positive people in nursing homes was a big mistake (hello Cuomo, Whitmer, and the beautiful Rachel Levine!)

4) Continuing to advise vaccinated people to wear cloth masks is a big mistake, especially because this will dissuade some from getting vaxxed at all, if they feel they'll still be stuck adhering to protocols of the unvaccinated.

5) Obsessive cleaning and sanitizing is a waste of time, money, and effort.


I just saw Dr. Fauci appear on some Los Angeles based cable program, describing why it's okay for kids to return to school. "They'll be sanitizing and making sure the kids keep enough distance from one another."

Whoops.


BTW, the BLM protests weren't as innocuous COVID-wise as you think. There's still some danger outdoors if people are packed close together, especially if a lot of shouting is involved. So going to the park or beach is very safe, because you don't have strangers right up in your face. At a big city BLM protest, you do.

---

BLM protests were studied extensively. They did fuckall.

Outdoor events where people stay long periods of time together are still dangerous. Outdoor dining is one of these events. Any event where people are drinking or doing anything that lowers inhibitions is risky. US appears to suck so much with following any rules that any version of common sense is just lost on you.

The conclusions of the article about masks were what i bolded. Proper masks work indoors. You can deduct that when they are talking about hospital settings. They're not talking about outdoor hospitals.

Best cloth masks get close to surgical masks in effectiveness. The problem with cloth masks is that there is no standard. Currently CDC has created one for their suggestions. It lacks thread count, but it at least disqualifies some of the worst masks.

I have no idea why you think it's important to own the libs by showing how masking and social distancing doesn't work. You just fall flat on your face over and over.

Masks exist for indoor use or crowded outdoor events. They don't work when you take it off to eat at a restaurant.

This is the only item on your list that is likely true "5) Obsessive cleaning and sanitizing is a waste of time, money, and effort." as is. Covid positive people in nursing homes is a matter of protocol. How they are secluded from other residents. It's not realistic to expect that hospitals have room to house them for a month. It's not realistic to assume you can build additional nursing homes to house them in a few months. Actually what is your solution to them after the fact with perfect hindsight vision?

The other numbered items on the list are there because you suck. Wear a mask after vaccine because it's still possible you can infect others that don't have any protection. Wear a mask so idiots stop badgering why isn't Timmy forced to wear a mask. Masks, distancing and avoiding indoor spaces are all going towards lowering infections. It's not choose one and you're golden. Shutting outdoor dining, parks and beaches is needed because you're a country filled with idiots.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gimmick

Wear a mask after vaccine because it's still possible you can infect others that don't have any protection.

---

This is where I have issue, it's possible for a vaccinated person to still spread the virus but unlikely. We're at a point now where any adult can get a vaccine. It's silly for the vaccinated to be required to still wear masks to protect people who chose not to get vaccinated. If children were dying at the same rate as adults I would have a different opinion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gut

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gimmick

Totally destroys all the arguments, like...

"Although not quite as good as N95s, well fitting surgical masks will still filter out as much as 80% of infectious aerosols. (Makison Booth 2013) Combined with the low infectivity of SARS-CoV-2, these factors keep us relatively safe"

...and...

"There was also some evidence that suggests much lower rates of healthcare worker infections in hospitals that are routinely using N95s or PAPRs."

...still bit of a mystery who you're arguing against with these latest truth bombs, but it's nice to see you now agree that BLM protests did fuckall for infections.

The rights agenda against masks has never been specified to cloth masks. Literally no one in the medical community has said that cloth masks are remarkably useful. Aerosol spread has been highly likely ever since the first cruise ship incidents. Oh and obv the article also supports social distancing. So i have no idea what argument you think that article destroys.

---

Well, why are we not being shipped n95's by the gvmnt then? Fairly certain they told us not to buy them so the frontline workers could have them. The average people are wearing bs masks for no reason. You basically just agreed.

---

Surgical masks and "good" cloth masks basically. How the virus works, by our best knowledge, is a combination of exposure x time vs your immune system. Infected people essentially shotgun the virus every time they breathe out. Almost everyone can take a few pellets and be just fine.

The virus particles are small enough that they stay in the air closer to cigarette smoke than pellets obv. Second hand smoking behaves roughly the same. Outdoors when someone is blowing smoke in your face is still more noticeable than indoors when someone smoked a cigarette an hour ago. Working at a crowded bar that allows smoking means everyone is exposed 1000 fold to the first example.

Winter/fall does two guaranteed things. It lowers your immune system and particles linger in the air longer. "Winter" here is a relative term regarding your immune system. It's not the worst when it's the coldest, it's when weather does the biggest leap towards cold for the first few times of the season.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nightmarefish

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gimmick

Wear a mask after vaccine because it's still possible you can infect others that don't have any protection.

---

This is where I have issue, it's possible for a vaccinated person to still spread it but unlikely. We're at a point now where any adult can get a vaccine. It's silly for the vaccinated to be required to still wear masks to protect people who chose not to get vaccinated. If children were dying at the same rate as adults I would have a different opinion.

---

They write their recommendations for few months at a time to all the states. Meaning it's the same guidance for a state with 20% vaccinated 2 months ago and state 60% vaccinated now.

It's CDC so it's just recommendations. Every state can set their own rules.

There's still some benefit to protecting the antivaxxers for the vaxxers. Less breeding ground for mutations that could overcome the current vaccine.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gimmick

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nightmarefish

This is where I have issue, it's possible for a vaccinated person to still spread it but unlikely. We're at a point now where any adult can get a vaccine. It's silly for the vaccinated to be required to still wear masks to protect people who chose not to get vaccinated. If children were dying at the same rate as adults I would have a different opinion.

---

They write their recommendations for few months at a time to all the states. Meaning it's the same guidance for a state with 20% vaccinated 2 months ago and state 60% vaccinated now.

It's CDC so it's just recommendations. Every state can set their own rules.

There's still some benefit to protecting the antivaxxers for the vaxxers. Less breeding ground for mutations that could overcome the current vaccine.

---

I'd like to see the data honestly. Have you come across a study that estimates the likelihood of a vaccinated person transferring the virus to an unvaccinated person? It's sounds like bullshit to me unless we're talking about the small percentage of people the vaccine didn't work on. My gut tells me the reason they want vaccinated people wearing masks is because if they didn't it would cause a bunch of other problems. IE, unvaccinated people would just claim to be vaccinated to avoid wearing masks at restaurants. Then you get to the issue of, do you require proof of vaccination so you don't have to wear a mask? Just opens up a bag of worms. Better for them to give guidance that everyone needs to continue to wear masks inside.

The idea of wearing a mask to protect someone who isn't scared of the virus and has chosen not to protect themselves is tilting to me. If there's a different, valid reason to continue wearing them then I'm all for it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gimmick

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gut

Well, why are we not being shipped n95's by the gvmnt then? Fairly certain they told us not to buy them so the frontline workers could have them. The average people are wearing bs masks for no reason. You basically just agreed.

---

Surgical masks and "good" cloth masks basically. How the virus works, by our best knowledge, is a combination of exposure x time vs your immune system. Infected people essentially shotgun the virus every time they breathe out. Almost everyone can take a few pellets and be just fine.

The virus particles are small enough that they stay in the air closer to cigarette smoke than pellets obv. Second hand smoking behaves roughly the same. Outdoors when someone is blowing smoke in your face is still more noticeable than indoors when someone smoked a cigarette an hour ago. Working at a crowded bar that allows smoking means everyone is exposed 1000 fold to the first example.

Winter/fall does two guaranteed things. It lowers your immune system and particles linger in the air longer. "Winter" here is a relative term regarding your immune system. It's not the worst when it's the coldest, it's when weather does the biggest leap towards cold for the first few times of the season.

---

https://swprs.org/face-masks-evidence/

A May 2020 meta-study on pandemic influenza published by the US CDC found that face masks had no effect, neither as personal protective equipment nor as a source control. [Source](https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article)

A Danish randomized controlled trial with 6000 participants, published in the Annals of Internal Medicine in November 2020, found no statistically significant effect of high-quality medical face masks against SARS-CoV-2 infection in a community setting. [Source](https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817)

A large randomized controlled trial with close to 8000 participants, published in October 2020 in PLOS One, found that face masks “did not seem to be effective against laboratory-confirmed viral respiratory infections nor against clinical respiratory infection.” [Source](https://journals.plos.org/plosone/ar...l.pone.0240287)

A February 2021 review by the European CDC found no significant evidence supporting the effectiveness of non-medical and medical face masks in the community. Furthermore, the European CDC advised against the use of FFP2/N95 respirators by the general public. [Source](https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/sites/def...rst-update.pdf)

A July 2020 review by the Oxford Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine found that there is no evidence for the effectiveness of cloth masks against virus infection or transmission. [Source](https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/maskin...with-politics/)

A November 2020 Cochrane review found that face masks did not reduce influenza-like illness (ILI) cases, neither in the general population nor in health care workers. [Source](https://www.cochrane.org/CD006207/AR...ratory-viruses)

An April 2020 review by two US professors in respiratory and infectious disease from the University of Illinois concluded that face masks have no effect in everyday life, neither as self-protection nor to protect third parties (so-called source control). [Source](https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-pers...sed-sound-data)

An article in the New England Journal of Medicine from May 2020 came to the conclusion that cloth face masks offer little to no protection in everyday life. [Source](https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2006372)

A 2015 study in the British Medical Journal BMJ Open found that cloth masks were **penetrated by 97% of particles and may increase infection risk by retaining moisture or repeated use.** [Source](https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577)

An August 2020 review by a German professor in virology, epidemiology and hygiene found that there is no evidence for the effectiveness of cloth face masks and that the improper daily use of masks by the public may in fact lead to an increase in infections. [Source](https://www.thieme-connect.com/produ...55/a-1174-6591)


The WHO admitted to the BBC that its June 2020 [mask policy update](https://swprs.org/who-mask-study-seriously-flawed/) was due not to new evidence but [“political lobbying”](https://archive.ph/YVJ0Y)**: “We had been told by various sources WHO committee reviewing the evidence had not backed masks but they recommended them due to political lobbying. This point was put to WHO who did not deny.” (D. Cohen, BBC Medical Corresponent).

There is increasing evidence that the novel coronavirus is transmitted, at least in indoor settings, not only by droplets but also by smaller aerosols. However, due to their large pore size and poor fit, cloth masks cannot filter out aerosols (see [video analysis](https://videopress.com/v/4egEyh2b
)): **over 90% of aerosols [penetrate or bypass](https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577) the mask and fill a medium-sized room within minutes.**

During the notorious 1918 influenza pandemic, the use of cloth face masks among the general population was widespread and in some places mandatory, but they [made no difference](https://www.washingtonpost.com/histo...-were-useless/).

To date, the **only randomized controlled trial (RCT) on face masks against SARS-CoV-2 infection in a community setting found no statistically significant benefit** (see above). However, three major journals [refused to publish](https://swprs.org/the-suppressed-danish-mask-study/) this study, delaying its publication by several months.

An analysis by the US CDC found that **[85% of people](https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/...5-H.pdf#page=4) infected with the new coronavirus reported wearing a mask “always” (70.6%) or “often” (14.4%)**. Compared to the control group of uninfected people, always wearing a mask did not reduce the risk of infection.

German researchers found that even an N95/FFP2 mask mandate had [no influence](https://twitter.com/DaFeid/status/1371448332875399168) on the coronavirus infection rate.** Austrian researchers found that the introduction, retraction and re-introduction of a facemask mandate in Austria had no influence on the infection rate.

In the US state of Kansas, the 90 counties without mask mandates had lower coronavirus infection rates** than the 15 counties with mask mandates. To hide this fact, the Kansas health department [tried to manipulate](https://sentinelksmo.org/more-decept...-mask-mandate/) the official statistics and data presentation.

Contrary to common belief, studies in hospitals [found that](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF01658736) the wearing of a medical mask by surgeons during operations [didn’t reduce](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...01509-0009.pdf) post-operative bacterial wound infections in patients.

German scientists found that in and on **N95 (FFP2) masks**, the novel coronavirus remains infectious for [several days](https://fh-muenster.de/gesundheit/fo...auch/index.php), **much longer than on most other materials**, thus **significantly increasing the risk of infection** by touching or reusing such masks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gimmick

There's still some benefit to protecting the antivaxxers for the vaxxers. Less breeding ground for mutations that could overcome the current vaccine.

---

I have little doubt really good masks work in a setting of grownups using them correctly. Hospitals prove that.

Here it’s just a farcical collection of people with them below their nose laughing like they did as children making fart noises under their arm before they stuck their tongue on a frozen pole. Trying to extrapolate what works elsewhere when we have such a high idiocy rate here is kind of pointless.

I think the willfully ignorant getting sick soon plus the already vaccinated are the best bet against any future variants.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nightmarefish

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gimmick

Wear a mask after vaccine because it's still possible you can infect others that don't have any protection.

---

This is where I have issue, it's possible for a vaccinated person to still spread the virus but unlikely. We're at a point now where any adult can get a vaccine. It's silly for the vaccinated to be required to still wear masks to protect people who chose not to get vaccinated. If children were dying at the same rate as adults I would have a different opinion.

---

We are on the same side here. Joe Biden, the CDC, governments everywhere have to care about the stupid also. They’re in charge of the entire populace and are mandated to give a fuck about everyone.

We are under no such mandate to give a single fuck.


I’m soon to be an anti-masker and will refuse to wear one in about another month once everyone who wants one is through the process. I won’t scream at an usher at a ballgame about the constitution like a moron if their company makes them enforce it, but let this shit rage otherwise.

I’d wear one if I was visiting Canada since it isn’t the normal functioning adults fault their government has been slow and I wouldn’t want to carry it to them, but here, fuck all that except where it’s common courtesy if someone has an illness or auto-immune disorder or something. If some variant emerges that actually concerns me, I’ll simply put one on then.

In general, any deaths that occur at the intersection of black people who think the US is running a Tuskegee experiment when they’re sitting in a room next to a bunch of white people with a random number in 2021 and dumb white trash Trumpsters who think socialist globalists and Big Pharma or whatever the right wing echo chamber has fed them today are trying to microchip them are equally moronic and welcomed deaths. That’s an intersection where we should make all the lights turn green and sit back.

Thats a bipartisan collection of the stupid. That’s natural selection in action.

It won’t kill anyone it didn’t before, but almost every death you can say a dumb person we are better off without died today and be right 99.999999% of the time.

It’s beautiful as it doesn’t hurt kids for the most part. I’ll feel horrible for the random child with a dumb anti-vaxxer parent or just the random breakthrough anomaly, but that kid was already very likely screwed and lost the genetic lottery from the start being born to an anti-vaxxer and perfect safety can never be achieved.

I’d volunteer cleaning Covid wards if I I could go directly to a “Patriots” rally after and help Mother Nature along.

Those two groups of willfully ignorant vote differently, but are the two groups of citizens I associate with idiocy, combative natures, and are generally unreasonable people who fuck it up for everyone.

I’d be for state sponsored Ted Nugent/Kid Rock/Ice Cube concerts to get the stupid together all in one place.

Any notion I want to wear a mask to save the life or prevent prolonged illness for someone who was throwing a hissy fit and screaming at minimum wage workers in grocery stores last year is insanity. After everyone who wants one has had the chance, let the chips fall where they may.

I would be very in favor of what the Republicans wanted last year in about one month. Remove any liability for companies so they don’t have to have a mask policy. Now it makes sense. Throw some language into the bill about new variants that are vaccine-resistant removing said protection, and then let it roll.

I won’t care if I see some anti-vaxxer adult lugging an oxygen cart around with them because they were scared to get a shot.

If I thought we could eliminate the virus entirely I’d be all for it. It’s always been obvious the segment of stupid is likely way too high.

The vaccine has proved effective against the variants so far. All anyone can hope for now is that it continues to prove true even if the variants get deadlier and wipe out more morons or enough get sick quickly that together we reach some magic threshold.

There was a lot of thinning of the herd talk last year. Stupidly is life’s greatest weakness, and that’s the element of the herd that will be thinned now.

Had lunch with a friend of ours who is a medical coder. I never really inquired about her job before.

She reviews patient records, reviews what was performed by the doctor and then assigns the proper codes to allow invoices be submitted to insurance companies. Of course, her focus is finding as many billable nuggets as possible.

Anyway, she’s assigned to a single hospital. It was interesting to hear her talk about an increase in covid illness. It’s a small sample and it’s just our area.

Somehow through her circle of work she has Instagram friends in India. Too many stories to relate but you can imagine.

She’s was such an innocent as I was trying to suss out how she is managed.... target is volume of work or dollars?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gimmick

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Maybe the narrative is different in Finland, but in the US, the Democrats and media have been hammering that we'd have had far fewer deaths if only Trump had empahsized masking more.

Cloth masks. Not surgical or N95 masks. Cloth.

You seem to believe that the "medical community" has been critical of the value of cloth masks, but that's not the message here at all. The general message here has been that masking, social distancing, and sanitizing is the safe way to go about life, and we only have a COVID problem because those damn Republicans won't take any of this seriously.

I'm also not saying any of this is new info. Even the article I posted is from November, and the info contained therein was able to have been deduced long before that.

The conlcusions, however, basically prove that the Democrat agenda regarding COVID was completely incorrect, and remains incorrect.

Let me count the ways:

1) Shutting down outdoor dining, parks, and beaches was a huge mistake

2) Emphasizing mask-wearing and social distancing over avoidance of indoor spaces altogether was a huge mistake

3) Putting COVID positive people in nursing homes was a big mistake (hello Cuomo, Whitmer, and the beautiful Rachel Levine!)

4) Continuing to advise vaccinated people to wear cloth masks is a big mistake, especially because this will dissuade some from getting vaxxed at all, if they feel they'll still be stuck adhering to protocols of the unvaccinated.

5) Obsessive cleaning and sanitizing is a waste of time, money, and effort.


I just saw Dr. Fauci appear on some Los Angeles based cable program, describing why it's okay for kids to return to school. "They'll be sanitizing and making sure the kids keep enough distance from one another."

Whoops.


BTW, the BLM protests weren't as innocuous COVID-wise as you think. There's still some danger outdoors if people are packed close together, especially if a lot of shouting is involved. So going to the park or beach is very safe, because you don't have strangers right up in your face. At a big city BLM protest, you do.

---

BLM protests were studied extensively. They did fuckall.

Outdoor events where people stay long periods of time together are still dangerous. Outdoor dining is one of these events. Any event where people are drinking or doing anything that lowers inhibitions is risky. US appears to suck so much with following any rules that any version of common sense is just lost on you.

The conclusions of the article about masks were what i bolded. Proper masks work indoors. You can deduct that when they are talking about hospital settings. They're not talking about outdoor hospitals.

Best cloth masks get close to surgical masks in effectiveness. The problem with cloth masks is that there is no standard. Currently CDC has created one for their suggestions. It lacks thread count, but it at least disqualifies some of the worst masks.

I have no idea why you think it's important to own the libs by showing how masking and social distancing doesn't work. You just fall flat on your face over and over.

Masks exist for indoor use or crowded outdoor events. They don't work when you take it off to eat at a restaurant.

This is the only item on your list that is likely true "5) Obsessive cleaning and sanitizing is a waste of time, money, and effort." as is. Covid positive people in nursing homes is a matter of protocol. How they are secluded from other residents. It's not realistic to expect that hospitals have room to house them for a month. It's not realistic to assume you can build additional nursing homes to house them in a few months. Actually what is your solution to them after the fact with perfect hindsight vision?

The other numbered items on the list are there because you suck. Wear a mask after vaccine because it's still possible you can infect others that don't have any protection. Wear a mask so idiots stop badgering why isn't Timmy forced to wear a mask. Masks, distancing and avoiding indoor spaces are all going towards lowering infections. It's not choose one and you're golden. Shutting outdoor dining, parks and beaches is needed because you're a country filled with idiots.

---

Wait a minute, I thought you just wrote this yesterday:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gimmick

Literally no one in the medical community has said that cloth masks are remarkably useful.

---

Now suddenly cloth masks need to be worn everywhere? Amazing how you pivot when you realize you accidentally backed the right wing narrative.

Also, glad to see you learned zero lessons from COVID mistakes over the past year.

Shutting outdoor dining, parks, and beaches is foolish because most people aren't going to lockdown and isolate for over a year, so you need to give them mostly-safe alternatives of what to do. Otherwise they end up disregarding everything and making up their own guidelines, with bad results.

Hilarious how you're the last person on earth defending putting COVID patients in nursing homes. Nobody said they had to stay in a hospital. Putting them ANYWHERE but a nursing home would have been a better solution than what was done -- and this was obvious from the start. This is why several red states actually made the practice illegal, while Cuomo, Whitmer, and Beautiful Health Secreatry Levine all mandated COVID patients go to the nursing homes. (Whitmer even sent young COVID patients to the nursing homes, resulting in even worse problems!) The retarded Democrats backing this at the time felt that putting them in "different wings" and having employees wear masks was good enough. Oops.

Yet gimmick defends this. Amazing. That should tell you all you need to know regarding his other COVID takes.

Of course, he's also advocating vaccinated people wearing cloth masks until the end of time (when there's zero science backing that), so take what you will from any of his COVID takes.

Pretty sad seeing a non-American bend over backward so often to defend American Democrats.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sanlmar

Had lunch with a friend of ours who is a medical coder. I never really inquired about her job before.

She reviews patient records, reviews what was performed by the doctor and then assigns the proper codes to allow invoices be submitted to insurance companies. Of course, her focus is finding as many billable nuggets as possible.

Anyway, she’s assigned to a single hospital. It was interesting to hear her talk about an increase in covid illness. It’s a small sample and it’s just our area.

Somehow through her circle of work she has Instagram friends in India. Too many stories to relate but you can imagine.

She’s was such an innocent as I was trying to suss out how she is managed.... target is volume of work or dollars?

---

There probably will be small COVID spikes in certain areas. Lots of things are opening up, including a bunch of indoor stuff, and the anti-vaccine people are among those returning.

I'm not concerned about this. These people are knowingly taking the risk, and if they get sick, they get sick. The concern will come if we start seeing significant illness for those fully vaccinated, but that just isn't happening.

I realize this increases the chance of variants forming which can possibly bust through the vaccine, but there's really little we can do about this. Some will choose not to get vaccinated, and for a subset of those (young people), the decision is a reasonable one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nightmarefish

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gimmick

They write their recommendations for few months at a time to all the states. Meaning it's the same guidance for a state with 20% vaccinated 2 months ago and state 60% vaccinated now.

It's CDC so it's just recommendations. Every state can set their own rules.

There's still some benefit to protecting the antivaxxers for the vaxxers. Less breeding ground for mutations that could overcome the current vaccine.

---

I'd like to see the data honestly. Have you come across a study that estimates the likelihood of a vaccinated person transferring the virus to an unvaccinated person? It's sounds like bullshit to me unless we're talking about the small percentage of people the vaccine didn't work on. My gut tells me the reason they want vaccinated people wearing masks is because if they didn't it would cause a bunch of other problems. IE, unvaccinated people would just claim to be vaccinated to avoid wearing masks at restaurants. Then you get to the issue of, do you require proof of vaccination so you don't have to wear a mask? Just opens up a bag of worms. Better for them to give guidance that everyone needs to continue to wear masks inside.

The idea of wearing a mask to protect someone who isn't scared of the virus and has chosen not to protect themselves is tilting to me. If there's a different, valid reason to continue wearing them then I'm all for it.

---

Latest batch of data is from last month. Something like 3-4 fold decrease in viral load with those that are vaccinated. There isn't much consensus how that translates to transmission besides less is better. The decreased viral load could mean that the virus uses most resources for survival and transmission is significantly lower or it could mean it prioritizes transmission in search of more preferable hosts and everything between those two extremes. It's gonna take some time before the exact mechanism is known.

But yea there's all sorts of practical reasons to having a single set of rules for people in different circumstances for now.

Kids day camps and sports camps are overbooked in a crazy way for the summer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gimmick

BLM protests were studied extensively. They did fuckall.

Outdoor events where people stay long periods of time together are still dangerous. Outdoor dining is one of these events. Any event where people are drinking or doing anything that lowers inhibitions is risky. US appears to suck so much with following any rules that any version of common sense is just lost on you.

The conclusions of the article about masks were what i bolded. Proper masks work indoors. You can deduct that when they are talking about hospital settings. They're not talking about outdoor hospitals.

Best cloth masks get close to surgical masks in effectiveness. The problem with cloth masks is that there is no standard. Currently CDC has created one for their suggestions. It lacks thread count, but it at least disqualifies some of the worst masks.

I have no idea why you think it's important to own the libs by showing how masking and social distancing doesn't work. You just fall flat on your face over and over.

Masks exist for indoor use or crowded outdoor events. They don't work when you take it off to eat at a restaurant.

This is the only item on your list that is likely true "5) Obsessive cleaning and sanitizing is a waste of time, money, and effort." as is. Covid positive people in nursing homes is a matter of protocol. How they are secluded from other residents. It's not realistic to expect that hospitals have room to house them for a month. It's not realistic to assume you can build additional nursing homes to house them in a few months. Actually what is your solution to them after the fact with perfect hindsight vision?

The other numbered items on the list are there because you suck. Wear a mask after vaccine because it's still possible you can infect others that don't have any protection. Wear a mask so idiots stop badgering why isn't Timmy forced to wear a mask. Masks, distancing and avoiding indoor spaces are all going towards lowering infections. It's not choose one and you're golden. Shutting outdoor dining, parks and beaches is needed because you're a country filled with idiots.

---

Wait a minute, I thought you just wrote this yesterday:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gimmick

Literally no one in the medical community has said that cloth masks are remarkably useful.

---

Now suddenly cloth masks need to be worn everywhere? Amazing how you pivot when you realize you accidentally backed the right wing narrative.

Also, glad to see you learned zero lessons from COVID mistakes over the past year.

Shutting outdoor dining, parks, and beaches is foolish because most people aren't going to lockdown and isolate for over a year, so you need to give them mostly-safe alternatives of what to do. Otherwise they end up disregarding everything and making up their own guidelines, with bad results.

Hilarious how you're the last person on earth defending putting COVID patients in nursing homes. Nobody said they had to stay in a hospital. Putting them ANYWHERE but a nursing home would have been a better solution than what was done -- and this was obvious from the start. This is why several red states actually made the practice illegal, while Cuomo, Whitmer, and Beautiful Health Secreatry Levine all mandated COVID patients go to the nursing homes. (Whitmer even sent young COVID patients to the nursing homes, resulting in even worse problems!) The retarded Democrats backing this at the time felt that putting them in "different wings" and having employees wear masks was good enough. Oops.

Yet gimmick defends this. Amazing. That should tell you all you need to know regarding his other COVID takes.

Of course, he's also advocating vaccinated people wearing cloth masks until the end of time (when there's zero science backing that), so take what you will from any of his COVID takes.

Pretty sad seeing a non-American bend over backward so often to defend American Democrats.

---

Cloth masks are very useful as blanket statement is false. They range from practically worthless to very close to surgical masks that also have a range of usefulness. But if you need your gotcha to sleep better at night, have at it. Or you could have just read the bolded part in the post you're quoting.

This isn't the first contagious disease in nursing homes. Instead of going with what had worked before your solution is anything else. Good ol' 20/20 hindsight. So what are the examples of "ANYWHERE but a nursing home"? Where are you putting recovering elderly? Send them to their family to spread the disease, to streets to die or possibly an isolated camp?

You don't need to lockdown for a year if you do it right. I guess your government could have decided that your citizens suck so hard that they need special rules. But it isn't exactly the fault of the guidelines and doesn't mean they don't work because half of you can't follow simple instructions.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gimmick

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nightmarefish

I'd like to see the data honestly. Have you come across a study that estimates the likelihood of a vaccinated person transferring the virus to an unvaccinated person? It's sounds like bullshit to me unless we're talking about the small percentage of people the vaccine didn't work on. My gut tells me the reason they want vaccinated people wearing masks is because if they didn't it would cause a bunch of other problems. IE, unvaccinated people would just claim to be vaccinated to avoid wearing masks at restaurants. Then you get to the issue of, do you require proof of vaccination so you don't have to wear a mask? Just opens up a bag of worms. Better for them to give guidance that everyone needs to continue to wear masks inside.

The idea of wearing a mask to protect someone who isn't scared of the virus and has chosen not to protect themselves is tilting to me. If there's a different, valid reason to continue wearing them then I'm all for it.

---

Latest batch of data is from last month. Something like 3-4 fold decrease in viral load with those that are vaccinated. There isn't much consensus how that translates to transmission besides less is better. The decreased viral load could mean that the virus uses most resources for survival and transmission is significantly lower or it could mean it prioritizes transmission in search of more preferable hosts and everything between those two extremes. It's gonna take some time before the exact mechanism is known.

But yea there's all sorts of practical reasons to having a single set of rules for people in different circumstances for now.

---

No, there isn't.

Public policy isn't about saving every single possible life. That's why the speed limits on roads aren't 25 mph, even though that would save about 40,000 lives per year in the US.

There's always a balance in public policy between safety, economic health, convenience, and quality of life.

Those on the left have been obsessing over safety and faux-safety, while disregarding everything else, with terrible consequences.

All studies thus far have shown that fully vaccinated people are not infecting others at any significant rate. Thus, these people should not be masking, especially because we're to the point where everyone over 12 can get the vaccine in the US, and those choosing not to get it are knowingly taking the risk.

The way to encourage the non-vaxxers to get vaccinated is to incentivize a return to normalcy. People on the fence aren't going to get vaccinated if they feel that they'll still be masking and social distancing for the foreseeable future. The messaging has been terrible, and it's only this way in the US, to my knowledge.

The CDC has also been giving bizarre, common-sense-defying guidance the entire way, such as telling vaccinated people that they can get together in small groups, but still wear masks. Huh?

We've seen over and over that COVID infection and death rates are not related to lockdown severity or mask mandates. Yet we have people like gimmick who amazingly believe that closing outdoor spaces was correct and that cloth masking after vaccination is the right messaging.

The goal here should have been to prevent massive COVID spread while also keeping life and the economy as close to normal as possible. Indoor spaces should have been discouraged -- mask or no mask (they weren't). Otudoor spaces should have been encouraged, with the caveat that you stay away from others not in your household as much as possible. Masking should have been a suggestion, not a mandate, and the usefulness of it (minor) should have been communicated honestly.

For example, in the 15 months of COVID messaging, I've never once seen the suggestion that you should stay at home and order groceries, instead of going to the store. Why not? It's not significantly more expensive, and it saves you from placing yourself in a dangerous space. Instead, we were simply told to wear a mask and stay 6 feet apart, and that was supposed to be good enough. It wasn't. Masks got politicized, and any message implying that they don't do very much (such as a message to avoid indoor spaces altogether) was avoided.

That was media and political malpractice, and people died because of it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BCR

I have little doubt really good masks work in a setting of grownups using them correctly. Hospitals prove that.

Here it’s just a farcical collection of people with them below their nose laughing like they did as children making fart noises under their arm before they stuck their tongue on a frozen pole. Trying to extrapolate what works elsewhere when we have such a high idiocy rate here is kind of pointless.

I think the willfully ignorant getting sick soon plus the already vaccinated are the best bet against any future variants.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nightmarefish

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gimmick

Wear a mask after vaccine because it's still possible you can infect others that don't have any protection.

---

This is where I have issue, it's possible for a vaccinated person to still spread the virus but unlikely. We're at a point now where any adult can get a vaccine. It's silly for the vaccinated to be required to still wear masks to protect people who chose not to get vaccinated. If children were dying at the same rate as adults I would have a different opinion.

---

We are on the same side here. Joe Biden, the CDC, governments everywhere have to care about the stupid also. They’re in charge of the entire populace and are mandated to give a fuck about everyone.

We are under no such mandate to give a single fuck.


I’m soon to be an anti-masker and will refuse to wear one in about another month once everyone who wants one is through the process. I won’t scream at an usher at a ballgame about the constitution like a moron if their company makes them enforce it, but let this shit rage otherwise.

I’d wear one if I was visiting Canada since it isn’t the normal functioning adults fault their government has been slow and I wouldn’t want to carry it to them, but here, fuck all that except where it’s common courtesy if someone has an illness or auto-immune disorder or something. If some variant emerges that actually concerns me, I’ll simply put one on then.

In general, any deaths that occur at the intersection of black people who think the US is running a Tuskegee experiment when they’re sitting in a room next to a bunch of white people with a random number in 2021 and dumb white trash Trumpsters who think socialist globalists and Big Pharma or whatever the right wing echo chamber has fed them today are trying to microchip them are equally moronic and welcomed deaths. That’s an intersection where we should make all the lights turn green and sit back.

Thats a bipartisan collection of the stupid. That’s natural selection in action.

It won’t kill anyone it didn’t before, but almost every death you can say a dumb person we are better off without died today and be right 99.999999% of the time.

It’s beautiful as it doesn’t hurt kids for the most part. I’ll feel horrible for the random child with a dumb anti-vaxxer parent or just the random breakthrough anomaly, but that kid was already very likely screwed and lost the genetic lottery from the start being born to an anti-vaxxer and perfect safety can never be achieved.

I’d volunteer cleaning Covid wards if I I could go directly to a “Patriots” rally after and help Mother Nature along.

Those two groups of willfully ignorant vote differently, but are the two groups of citizens I associate with idiocy, combative natures, and are generally unreasonable people who fuck it up for everyone.

I’d be for state sponsored Ted Nugent/Kid Rock/Ice Cube concerts to get the stupid together all in one place.

Any notion I want to wear a mask to save the life or prevent prolonged illness for someone who was throwing a hissy fit and screaming at minimum wage workers in grocery stores last year is insanity. After everyone who wants one has had the chance, let the chips fall where they may.

I would be very in favor of what the Republicans wanted last year in about one month. Remove any liability for companies so they don’t have to have a mask policy. Now it makes sense. Throw some language into the bill about new variants that are vaccine-resistant removing said protection, and then let it roll.

I won’t care if I see some anti-vaxxer adult lugging an oxygen cart around with them because they were scared to get a shot.

If I thought we could eliminate the virus entirely I’d be all for it. It’s always been obvious the segment of stupid is likely way too high.

The vaccine has proved effective against the variants so far. All anyone can hope for now is that it continues to prove true even if the variants get deadlier and wipe out more morons or enough get sick quickly that together we reach some magic threshold.

There was a lot of thinning of the herd talk last year. Stupidly is life’s greatest weakness, and that’s the element of the herd that will be thinned now.

---

lol you have fried your fucking brain, look at how stupid this entire rant is, Donald Trump lives rent free in your head seek help immediately for your tds and coke problem

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dwai

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BCR

I have little doubt really good masks work in a setting of grownups using them correctly. Hospitals prove that.

Here it’s just a farcical collection of people with them below their nose laughing like they did as children making fart noises under their arm before they stuck their tongue on a frozen pole. Trying to extrapolate what works elsewhere when we have such a high idiocy rate here is kind of pointless.

I think the willfully ignorant getting sick soon plus the already vaccinated are the best bet against any future variants.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nightmarefish

This is where I have issue, it's possible for a vaccinated person to still spread the virus but unlikely. We're at a point now where any adult can get a vaccine. It's silly for the vaccinated to be required to still wear masks to protect people who chose not to get vaccinated. If children were dying at the same rate as adults I would have a different opinion.

---

We are on the same side here. Joe Biden, the CDC, governments everywhere have to care about the stupid also. They’re in charge of the entire populace and are mandated to give a fuck about everyone.

We are under no such mandate to give a single fuck.


I’m soon to be an anti-masker and will refuse to wear one in about another month once everyone who wants one is through the process. I won’t scream at an usher at a ballgame about the constitution like a moron if their company makes them enforce it, but let this shit rage otherwise.

I’d wear one if I was visiting Canada since it isn’t the normal functioning adults fault their government has been slow and I wouldn’t want to carry it to them, but here, fuck all that except where it’s common courtesy if someone has an illness or auto-immune disorder or something. If some variant emerges that actually concerns me, I’ll simply put one on then.

In general, any deaths that occur at the intersection of black people who think the US is running a Tuskegee experiment when they’re sitting in a room next to a bunch of white people with a random number in 2021 and dumb white trash Trumpsters who think socialist globalists and Big Pharma or whatever the right wing echo chamber has fed them today are trying to microchip them are equally moronic and welcomed deaths. That’s an intersection where we should make all the lights turn green and sit back.

Thats a bipartisan collection of the stupid. That’s natural selection in action.

It won’t kill anyone it didn’t before, but almost every death you can say a dumb person we are better off without died today and be right 99.999999% of the time.

It’s beautiful as it doesn’t hurt kids for the most part. I’ll feel horrible for the random child with a dumb anti-vaxxer parent or just the random breakthrough anomaly, but that kid was already very likely screwed and lost the genetic lottery from the start being born to an anti-vaxxer and perfect safety can never be achieved.

I’d volunteer cleaning Covid wards if I I could go directly to a “Patriots” rally after and help Mother Nature along.

Those two groups of willfully ignorant vote differently, but are the two groups of citizens I associate with idiocy, combative natures, and are generally unreasonable people who fuck it up for everyone.

I’d be for state sponsored Ted Nugent/Kid Rock/Ice Cube concerts to get the stupid together all in one place.

Any notion I want to wear a mask to save the life or prevent prolonged illness for someone who was throwing a hissy fit and screaming at minimum wage workers in grocery stores last year is insanity. After everyone who wants one has had the chance, let the chips fall where they may.

I would be very in favor of what the Republicans wanted last year in about one month. Remove any liability for companies so they don’t have to have a mask policy. Now it makes sense. Throw some language into the bill about new variants that are vaccine-resistant removing said protection, and then let it roll.

I won’t care if I see some anti-vaxxer adult lugging an oxygen cart around with them because they were scared to get a shot.

If I thought we could eliminate the virus entirely I’d be all for it. It’s always been obvious the segment of stupid is likely way too high.

The vaccine has proved effective against the variants so far. All anyone can hope for now is that it continues to prove true even if the variants get deadlier and wipe out more morons or enough get sick quickly that together we reach some magic threshold.

There was a lot of thinning of the herd talk last year. Stupidly is life’s greatest weakness, and that’s the element of the herd that will be thinned now.

---

lol you have fried your fucking brain, look at how stupid this entire rant is, Donald Trump lives rent free in your head seek help immediately for your tds and coke problem

---

It must be painful to yell n-word constantly only to realize you are just a white n-word to anyone with above a room temp IQ.

There are two large coalitions of people resistant. People who think whitey is out to get them and your fringe

And just a single study that dwai linked as proof of something...

"Conclusion

This trial was unable to provide conclusive evidence on facemask efficacy against viral respiratory infections most likely due to poor adherence to protocol."

...i don't really care playing whack-a-mole with every retarded list of shit antivaxxers have collected that they think prove their point.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gimmick

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Wait a minute, I thought you just wrote this yesterday:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gimmick

Literally no one in the medical community has said that cloth masks are remarkably useful.

---

Now suddenly cloth masks need to be worn everywhere? Amazing how you pivot when you realize you accidentally backed the right wing narrative.

Also, glad to see you learned zero lessons from COVID mistakes over the past year.

Shutting outdoor dining, parks, and beaches is foolish because most people aren't going to lockdown and isolate for over a year, so you need to give them mostly-safe alternatives of what to do. Otherwise they end up disregarding everything and making up their own guidelines, with bad results.

Hilarious how you're the last person on earth defending putting COVID patients in nursing homes. Nobody said they had to stay in a hospital. Putting them ANYWHERE but a nursing home would have been a better solution than what was done -- and this was obvious from the start. This is why several red states actually made the practice illegal, while Cuomo, Whitmer, and Beautiful Health Secreatry Levine all mandated COVID patients go to the nursing homes. (Whitmer even sent young COVID patients to the nursing homes, resulting in even worse problems!) The retarded Democrats backing this at the time felt that putting them in "different wings" and having employees wear masks was good enough. Oops.

Yet gimmick defends this. Amazing. That should tell you all you need to know regarding his other COVID takes.

Of course, he's also advocating vaccinated people wearing cloth masks until the end of time (when there's zero science backing that), so take what you will from any of his COVID takes.

Pretty sad seeing a non-American bend over backward so often to defend American Democrats.

---

Cloth masks are very useful as blanket statement is false. They range from practically worthless to very close to surgical masks that also have a range of usefulness. But if you need your gotcha to sleep better at night, have at it. Or you could have just read the bolded part in the post you're quoting.

This isn't the first contagious disease in nursing homes. Instead of going with what had worked before your solution is anything else. Good ol' 20/20 hindsight. So what are the examples of "ANYWHERE but a nursing home"? Where are you putting recovering elderly? Send them to their family to spread the disease, to streets to die or possibly an isolated camp?

You don't need to lockdown for a year if you do it right. I guess your government could have decided that your citizens suck so hard that they need special rules. But it isn't exactly the fault of the guidelines and doesn't mean they don't work because half of you can't follow simple instructions.

---

Do you not understand the definition of "anywhere but a nursing home"? Literally anywhere would have been better. Back home, back with (non-elderly) family members, wherever. In Texas, for example, this practice was made illegal. Why aren't we hearing any horror stories there regarding the elderly having "no place to go" when recovering from COVID? This wasn't just another "contagious disease" -- it was the worst contagious disease we've seen in 100 years, where the sick and frail elderly were by far the most vulnerable. You'd have to be a card-carrying retard to knowingly bring that disease into a facility housing the exact people it was killing the most. I'm glad to see you're still defending the decision, though. Makes it pretty clear how credible you are with everything else you're saying.

It's not hindsight. It's common sense, and some states did it correctly, while a few (all blue) did it very incorrectly, and have since been covering up the death data.

Again, nice pivot regarding cloth masks. You went from saying yesterday that no medical professional has made the case that cloth masks are useful, to saying that cloth masks are useful if they're made right. What? So which one is it? And if "good" cloth masks are so useful, can you explain why the criteria of a "good" mask was never communicated to the American people? (I'd also like to see credible studies confirming this, because it seems like you're talking out of your ass again.)

The bottom line is that cloth masks as currently worn by Americans are not very useful. The media and Democrats have not been honest about this. They refused to tell people to stay out of indoor spaces when possible. Instead, the message involved cleaning, distancing, and masking.

It was dishonest, and a lot of people needlessly died.

You can try to dance around that and re-spin your own words, but those are the facts.

I’m really warming up to the idea that folks will move to the state whose politics and temperament are suited their own.

I have absolutely no gripe about my community and how it’s citizens conduct themselves.

I travelled during Covid. I was in Florida for golf earlier this year. It was the Wild West. No masks. Restaurants made virtually no concessions. People gave significantly less of a fuck about covid. That might have suited you better Druff.

New Hampshire was similar but it’s the “Live Free or Die” state. You might even risk getting into a scrap publicly. Vermont, one state over, was a completely different vibe. Couple of examples.

There isn’t going to be a one size fits all solution in the free-for-all that is the US. Our polarization will only become greater. We are a little less civilized than some parts of the world. That’s our advantage in some ways.

This reduction to state delivery of services begun by Trump will unintentionally start a new trend I hope. If you don’t like Pelosi move to Texas. If you don’t like MConnell stay in California or Hawaii.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gimmick

Latest batch of data is from last month. Something like 3-4 fold decrease in viral load with those that are vaccinated. There isn't much consensus how that translates to transmission besides less is better. The decreased viral load could mean that the virus uses most resources for survival and transmission is significantly lower or it could mean it prioritizes transmission in search of more preferable hosts and everything between those two extremes. It's gonna take some time before the exact mechanism is known.

But yea there's all sorts of practical reasons to having a single set of rules for people in different circumstances for now.

---

No, there isn't.

Public policy isn't about saving every single possible life. That's why the speed limits on roads aren't 25 mph, even though that would save about 40,000 lives per year in the US.

There's always a balance in public policy between safety, economic health, convenience, and quality of life.

Those on the left have been obsessing over safety and faux-safety, while disregarding everything else, with terrible consequences.

All studies thus far have shown that fully vaccinated people are not infecting others at any significant rate. Thus, these people should not be masking, especially because we're to the point where everyone over 12 can get the vaccine in the US, and those choosing not to get it are knowingly taking the risk.

The way to encourage the non-vaxxers to get vaccinated is to incentivize a return to normalcy. People on the fence aren't going to get vaccinated if they feel that they'll still be masking and social distancing for the foreseeable future. The messaging has been terrible, and it's only this way in the US, to my knowledge.

The CDC has also been giving bizarre, common-sense-defying guidance the entire way, such as telling vaccinated people that they can get together in small groups, but still wear masks. Huh?

We've seen over and over that COVID infection and death rates are not related to lockdown severity or mask mandates. Yet we have people like gimmick who amazingly believe that closing outdoor spaces was correct and that cloth masking after vaccination is the right messaging.

The goal here should have been to prevent massive COVID spread while also keeping life and the economy as close to normal as possible. Indoor spaces should have been discouraged -- mask or no mask (they weren't). Otudoor spaces should have been encouraged, with the caveat that you stay away from others not in your household as much as possible. Masking should have been a suggestion, not a mandate, and the usefulness of it (minor) should have been communicated honestly.

For example, in the 15 months of COVID messaging, I've never once seen the suggestion that you should stay at home and order groceries, instead of going to the store. Why not? It's not significantly more expensive, and it saves you from placing yourself in a dangerous space. Instead, we were simply told to wear a mask and stay 6 feet apart, and that was supposed to be good enough. It wasn't. Masks got politicized, and any message implying that they don't do very much (such as a message to avoid indoor spaces altogether) was avoided.

That was media and political malpractice, and people died because of it.

---

Yea CDC doesn't post daily guidelines. They don't change guidelines based on the first batch of data. States are free to do whatever they want based on their circumstances. CDC doesn't dictate shit. Why would they ever waste time in their public statements to do anything that they aren't already doing. Muh CDC and all that, but what do you expect from them? What part of living in a federation you don't understand?

The bizarre CDC guideline about vaccinated people gathering in small groups is based on the first paragraph i posted above.

15 minutes in a grocery store while wearing a mask isn't enough to infect alone. You seem to be under the illusion that US was hit with the worst case scenario of possible Covid infection spread. You weren't.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sanlmar

I’m really warming up to the idea that folks will move to the state whose politics and temperament are suited their own.

I have absolutely no gripe about my community and how it’s citizens conduct themselves.

I travelled during Covid. I was in Florida for golf earlier this year. It was the Wild West. No masks. Restaurants made virtually no concessions. People gave significantly less of a fuck about covid. That might have suited you better Druff.

New Hampshire was similar but it’s the “Live Free or Die” state. You might even risk getting into a scrap publicly. Vermont, one state over, was a completely different vibe. Couple of examples.

There isn’t going to be a one size fits all solution in the free-for-all that is the US. Our polarization will only become greater. We are a little less civilized than some parts of the world. That’s our advantage in some ways.

This reduction to state delivery of services begun by Trump will unintentionally start a new trend I hope. If you don’t like Pelosi move to Texas. If you don’t like MConnell stay in California or Hawaii.

---

You know how cautious I was with COVID up until my vaccination. I don't know anyone who was more cautious than me -- even very old people. I would not go indoors anywhere unless super-necessary (like my root canal and colonoscopy). Everything I got was delivered or done through curbside pickup.

Now that I'm vaccinated, I want the opposite. I want to be able to go places, do things, and not be hindered by masking rules. I was about to refuse to attend Dodgers games due to the mask requirement, but I see on TV that it's basically not enforced. Now I'm refusing to attend because they've been terrible.

I'm fine with states setting their own standards. Sucks for me living in a blue state, but nobody's forcing me to live here. I choose the good weather, proximity to the mountains and beaches, and proximity to Vegas, and I get the shitty state government. Oh well.

I just wish the media, the CDC, and the politicians would be honest about the entire situation, and then people could make their best choices.

The average person is horribly misinformed about COVID, and it's not because of right wing propaganda.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gimmick

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Wait a minute, I thought you just wrote this yesterday:



Now suddenly cloth masks need to be worn everywhere? Amazing how you pivot when you realize you accidentally backed the right wing narrative.

Also, glad to see you learned zero lessons from COVID mistakes over the past year.

Shutting outdoor dining, parks, and beaches is foolish because most people aren't going to lockdown and isolate for over a year, so you need to give them mostly-safe alternatives of what to do. Otherwise they end up disregarding everything and making up their own guidelines, with bad results.

Hilarious how you're the last person on earth defending putting COVID patients in nursing homes. Nobody said they had to stay in a hospital. Putting them ANYWHERE but a nursing home would have been a better solution than what was done -- and this was obvious from the start. This is why several red states actually made the practice illegal, while Cuomo, Whitmer, and Beautiful Health Secreatry Levine all mandated COVID patients go to the nursing homes. (Whitmer even sent young COVID patients to the nursing homes, resulting in even worse problems!) The retarded Democrats backing this at the time felt that putting them in "different wings" and having employees wear masks was good enough. Oops.

Yet gimmick defends this. Amazing. That should tell you all you need to know regarding his other COVID takes.

Of course, he's also advocating vaccinated people wearing cloth masks until the end of time (when there's zero science backing that), so take what you will from any of his COVID takes.

Pretty sad seeing a non-American bend over backward so often to defend American Democrats.

---

Cloth masks are very useful as blanket statement is false. They range from practically worthless to very close to surgical masks that also have a range of usefulness. But if you need your gotcha to sleep better at night, have at it. Or you could have just read the bolded part in the post you're quoting.

This isn't the first contagious disease in nursing homes. Instead of going with what had worked before your solution is anything else. Good ol' 20/20 hindsight. So what are the examples of "ANYWHERE but a nursing home"? Where are you putting recovering elderly? Send them to their family to spread the disease, to streets to die or possibly an isolated camp?

You don't need to lockdown for a year if you do it right. I guess your government could have decided that your citizens suck so hard that they need special rules. But it isn't exactly the fault of the guidelines and doesn't mean they don't work because half of you can't follow simple instructions.

---

Do you not understand the definition of "anywhere but a nursing home"? Literally anywhere would have been better. Back home, back with (non-elderly) family members, wherever. In Texas, for example, this practice was made illegal. Why aren't we hearing any horror storiers there regarding the elderly having "no place to go" when recovering from COVID? This wasn't just another "contagious disease" -- it was the worst contagious disease we've seen in 100 years, where the sick and frail elderly were by far the most vulnerable. You'd have to be a card-carrying retard to knowingly bring that disease into a facility housing the exact people it was killing the most. I'm glad to see you're still defending the decision, though. Makes it pretty clear how credible you are with everything else you're saying.

It's not hindsight. It's common sense, and some states did it correctly, while a few (all blue) did it very incorrectly, and have since been covering up the death data.

Again, nice pivot regarding cloth masks. You went from saying yesterday that no medical professional has made the case that cloth masks are useful, to saying that cloth masks are useful if they're made right. What? So which one is it? And if "good" cloth masks are so useful, can you explain why the criteria of a "good" mask was never communicated to the American people? (I'd also like to see credible studies confirming this, because it seems like you're talking out of your ass again.)

The bottom line is that cloth masks as currently worn by Americans are not very useful. The media and Democrats have not been honest about this. They refused to tell people to stay out of indoor spaces when possible. Instead, the message involved cleaning, distancing, and masking.

It was dishonest, and a lot of people needlessly died.

You can try to dance around that and re-spin your own words, but those are the facts.

---

Remind me again were the blue states infected first or last?

I said cloth masks aren't remarkably useful. You quoted that. You'd think you could get it right, but nope. They stopped using cloth masks in most hospitals in the 60s. Because reasons. Surgical masks were better in every conceivable way. I'm not gonna teach you basic physics or virology. Just google the differences of masks.

The messaging to a country filled with insolent children was pretty much "can you try to do something useful". Half the time you want information overload and the other half it's comforting lies. It's like it's impossible for the CDC to get anything right yet other orgs get all the excuses no matter how hard they fuck up.

But yea clearly i'm hard pivoting with my stance on masks. It's not you going for the extra mile with mental gymnastics to excuse your teams retarded anti mask stance. But hey at least we've now moved the goal post to just cloth masks. I'm sure Trump meant just cloth masks when he politized mask usage. When he made it a part of presidential campaign. That wasn't reckless at all. It's nice we hold all messaging to a same standard here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dan Druff

I just wish the media, the CDC, and the politicians would be honest about the entire situation, and then people could make their best choices.

The average person is horribly misinformed about COVID, and it's not because of right wing propaganda.

---

I don’t know what is average. I don’t think any such thing exists. People are extremely polarized.

People do make up their own minds. States are making up their own minds. Bravo.

Montana said they are ceasing the unemployment bonus? Have at it.

In the midst of all this you have Biden with his mammoth infrastructure program. This is not progress. Let the states pay for their own highways with $5 gas. You have all these social programs? Raise your state sales tax and have at it.

Obamacare or Romneycare? It’s your fucking choice. Move to the right state for you. Let’s not think small.

Good chat.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BCR

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dwai

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BCR

I have little doubt really good masks work in a setting of grownups using them correctly. Hospitals prove that.

Here it’s just a farcical collection of people with them below their nose laughing like they did as children making fart noises under their arm before they stuck their tongue on a frozen pole. Trying to extrapolate what works elsewhere when we have such a high idiocy rate here is kind of pointless.

I think the willfully ignorant getting sick soon plus the already vaccinated are the best bet against any future variants.





We are on the same side here. Joe Biden, the CDC, governments everywhere have to care about the stupid also. They’re in charge of the entire populace and are mandated to give a fuck about everyone.

We are under no such mandate to give a single fuck.


I’m soon to be an anti-masker and will refuse to wear one in about another month once everyone who wants one is through the process. I won’t scream at an usher at a ballgame about the constitution like a moron if their company makes them enforce it, but let this shit rage otherwise.

I’d wear one if I was visiting Canada since it isn’t the normal functioning adults fault their government has been slow and I wouldn’t want to carry it to them, but here, fuck all that except where it’s common courtesy if someone has an illness or auto-immune disorder or something. If some variant emerges that actually concerns me, I’ll simply put one on then.

In general, any deaths that occur at the intersection of black people who think the US is running a Tuskegee experiment when they’re sitting in a room next to a bunch of white people with a random number in 2021 and dumb white trash Trumpsters who think socialist globalists and Big Pharma or whatever the right wing echo chamber has fed them today are trying to microchip them are equally moronic and welcomed deaths. That’s an intersection where we should make all the lights turn green and sit back.

Thats a bipartisan collection of the stupid. That’s natural selection in action.

It won’t kill anyone it didn’t before, but almost every death you can say a dumb person we are better off without died today and be right 99.999999% of the time.

It’s beautiful as it doesn’t hurt kids for the most part. I’ll feel horrible for the random child with a dumb anti-vaxxer parent or just the random breakthrough anomaly, but that kid was already very likely screwed and lost the genetic lottery from the start being born to an anti-vaxxer and perfect safety can never be achieved.

I’d volunteer cleaning Covid wards if I I could go directly to a “Patriots” rally after and help Mother Nature along.

Those two groups of willfully ignorant vote differently, but are the two groups of citizens I associate with idiocy, combative natures, and are generally unreasonable people who fuck it up for everyone.

I’d be for state sponsored Ted Nugent/Kid Rock/Ice Cube concerts to get the stupid together all in one place.

Any notion I want to wear a mask to save the life or prevent prolonged illness for someone who was throwing a hissy fit and screaming at minimum wage workers in grocery stores last year is insanity. After everyone who wants one has had the chance, let the chips fall where they may.

I would be very in favor of what the Republicans wanted last year in about one month. Remove any liability for companies so they don’t have to have a mask policy. Now it makes sense. Throw some language into the bill about new variants that are vaccine-resistant removing said protection, and then let it roll.

I won’t care if I see some anti-vaxxer adult lugging an oxygen cart around with them because they were scared to get a shot.

If I thought we could eliminate the virus entirely I’d be all for it. It’s always been obvious the segment of stupid is likely way too high.

The vaccine has proved effective against the variants so far. All anyone can hope for now is that it continues to prove true even if the variants get deadlier and wipe out more morons or enough get sick quickly that together we reach some magic threshold.

There was a lot of thinning of the herd talk last year. Stupidly is life’s greatest weakness, and that’s the element of the herd that will be thinned now.

---

lol you have fried your fucking brain, look at how stupid this entire rant is, Donald Trump lives rent free in your head seek help immediately for your tds and coke problem

---

It must be painful to yell n-word constantly only to realize you are just a white n-word to anyone with above a room temp IQ.

There are two large coalitions of people resistant. People who think whitey is out to get them and your fringe

---

what about the 50% of Healthcare workers, 50% of military families? are these people "SCIENCE deniers" or qtards?

Trump is no longer president, seek help immediately for your problem

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gimmick

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gimmick

Cloth masks are very useful as blanket statement is false. They range from practically worthless to very close to surgical masks that also have a range of usefulness. But if you need your gotcha to sleep better at night, have at it. Or you could have just read the bolded part in the post you're quoting.

This isn't the first contagious disease in nursing homes. Instead of going with what had worked before your solution is anything else. Good ol' 20/20 hindsight. So what are the examples of "ANYWHERE but a nursing home"? Where are you putting recovering elderly? Send them to their family to spread the disease, to streets to die or possibly an isolated camp?

You don't need to lockdown for a year if you do it right. I guess your government could have decided that your citizens suck so hard that they need special rules. But it isn't exactly the fault of the guidelines and doesn't mean they don't work because half of you can't follow simple instructions.

---

Do you not understand the definition of "anywhere but a nursing home"? Literally anywhere would have been better. Back home, back with (non-elderly) family members, wherever. In Texas, for example, this practice was made illegal. Why aren't we hearing any horror storiers there regarding the elderly having "no place to go" when recovering from COVID? This wasn't just another "contagious disease" -- it was the worst contagious disease we've seen in 100 years, where the sick and frail elderly were by far the most vulnerable. You'd have to be a card-carrying retard to knowingly bring that disease into a facility housing the exact people it was killing the most. I'm glad to see you're still defending the decision, though. Makes it pretty clear how credible you are with everything else you're saying.

It's not hindsight. It's common sense, and some states did it correctly, while a few (all blue) did it very incorrectly, and have since been covering up the death data.

Again, nice pivot regarding cloth masks. You went from saying yesterday that no medical professional has made the case that cloth masks are useful, to saying that cloth masks are useful if they're made right. What? So which one is it? And if "good" cloth masks are so useful, can you explain why the criteria of a "good" mask was never communicated to the American people? (I'd also like to see credible studies confirming this, because it seems like you're talking out of your ass again.)

The bottom line is that cloth masks as currently worn by Americans are not very useful. The media and Democrats have not been honest about this. They refused to tell people to stay out of indoor spaces when possible. Instead, the message involved cleaning, distancing, and masking.

It was dishonest, and a lot of people needlessly died.

You can try to dance around that and re-spin your own words, but those are the facts.

---

Remind me again were the blue states infected first or last?

I said cloth masks aren't remarkably useful. You quoted that. You'd think you could get it right, but nope. They stopped using cloth masks in most hospitals in the 60s. Because reasons. Surgical masks were better in every conceivable way. I'm not gonna teach you basic physics or virology. Just google the differences of masks.

The messaging to a country filled with insolent children was pretty much "can you try to do something useful". Half the time you want information overload and the other half it's comforting lies. It's like it's impossible for the CDC to get anything right yet other orgs get all the excuses no matter how hard they fuck up.

But yea clearly i'm hard pivoting with my stance on masks. It's not you going for the extra mile with mental gymnastics to excuse your teams retarded anti mask stance. But hey at least we've now moved the goal post to just cloth masks. I'm sure Trump meant just cloth masks when he politized mask usage. When he made it a part of presidential campaign. That wasn't reckless at all. It's nice we hold all messaging to a same standard here.

---

And now you're pivoting to lumping me in with MAGA types who denied COVID's seriousness and felt masks were a rights violation. I was never that guy, and you know it. I have criticized those on the right who have taken that stance, and you also know that.

We're talking about the dishonest messaging from the left and media here. This wasn't a comparison of media versus Trump. This was an indictment of the way the left and media have handled COVID, which has been dishonest and dreadful.

I've never wanted "comforting lies". I've wanted the truth, and then sane public policy to follow that truth. I want a media which is honest about COVID danger and how to avoid it, not mask hysteria in order to make Republicans look bad.

The message should have been very simple: Stay out of indoor spaces, and when outdoors, keep your distance. Wear a mask to help keep others safe, but understand that it's only going to provide a little protection, and that simply avoiding indoor spaces is the biggest key. Don't bother with the deep cleaning. Get everything delivered and do curbside pickup if possible. Any time you go indoors in public, you're taking a risk, mask or no mask.

That wasn't the message. As I said, in my 15 months of living in California during this pandemic, I saw ZERO messages from the media that I'd be safer by grocery shopping online. I was told 100000000000 times that safety is achieved through masking and social distancing, though!

I'll say it again. Cloth masks, as currently worn by the ovewhelming majority of Americans, are not very useful indoors. The opposite was communicated for political reasons. It was the way to beat Trump, it was the way to keep us in crisis mode long after vaccination, and it was the way to change the fabric of America, under the cover of that crisis.

You can choose to be willfully ignorant about this, and put a halo over the heads of Democratic and media leaders, but those are the facts.

I do not want any messaging from government about how consumers should engage with business. Shop at home or in store.

Let the businesses message their customers.

I went to the grocery nearly every damn day. I have no idea what I want to eat tomorrow. The stores exercised messaging about distance and masks. The customers were extremely considerate of others. The customers were the biggest part of the equation but I live in a civilized land.

I notice people in parking lots around here still masked up as they walk to their car. Long after guideline were lifted. Very interesting.

Despite dining out, traveling, working out, and shopping all along I will probably continue to wear a mask long after there is social pressure. Nothing is lost by doing so.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sanlmar

I do not want any messaging from government about how consumers should engage with business. Shop at home or in store.

Let the businesses message their customers.

I went to the grocery nearly every damn day. I have no idea what I want to eat tomorrow. The stores exercised messaging about distance and masks. The customers were extremely considerate of others. The customers were the biggest part of the equation but I live in a civilized land.

I notice people in parking lots around here still masked up as they walk to their car. Long after guideline were lifted. Very interesting.

Despite dining out, traveling, working out, and shopping all along I will probably continue to wear a mask long after there is social pressure. Nothing is lost by doing so.

---

Why don't you want the government to tell you what's safe and what isn't? Isn't that the role of the CDC?

I agree they should be careful regarding making policies banning things. I wasn't advocating making it illegal to go to the grocery store. I was advocating the government and the media being honest that the grocery store was a COVID risk, and that masking/cleaning/distancing wasn't going to help you very much.

If you choose to go anyway, so be it.

I want everyone to have their own personal choice. But I want it to be well-informed by an honest government and media. I don't want it to be informed by virtue signaling or the desire to humiliate the other political side.

These shoppers are walking to Teslas admittedly but that’s another thread.

They are free to drive what they like.

It’s very interesting how a few short weeks ago people were blowing their brains out trying to get a vaccine shot. Waking up at 5am to try to get a slot. Heard some crazy stories.

Very rapidly sites are getting shut down. You can walk into any CVS and get a shot. Target will give you a store credit.

The drugs are headed over seas soon

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dwai

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BCR

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dwai

lol you have fried your fucking brain, look at how stupid this entire rant is, Donald Trump lives rent free in your head seek help immediately for your tds and coke problem

---

It must be painful to yell n-word constantly only to realize you are just a white n-word to anyone with above a room temp IQ.

There are two large coalitions of people resistant. People who think whitey is out to get them and your fringe

---

what about the 50% of Healthcare workers, 50% of military families?are these people "SCIENCE deniers" or qtards?

Trump is no longer president, seek help immediately for your problem

---

Yes, you fucking mong. Health care workers cover everything from phlebotomists with 10 week degrees to anything.

Military families are overwhelmingly young, disproportionately minorities and rural. The vast majority are young enough their decisions won’t likely hurt them, but there isn’t a single solitary logical reason to not get the vaccine from a scientific perspective. It’s been a huge success story by every conceivable metric. You’re a child arguing amongst smarter adults who are all vaccinated and discussing how to handle the regulations and issues created by trash like yourself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gimmick

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Do you not understand the definition of "anywhere but a nursing home"? Literally anywhere would have been better. Back home, back with (non-elderly) family members, wherever. In Texas, for example, this practice was made illegal. Why aren't we hearing any horror storiers there regarding the elderly having "no place to go" when recovering from COVID? This wasn't just another "contagious disease" -- it was the worst contagious disease we've seen in 100 years, where the sick and frail elderly were by far the most vulnerable. You'd have to be a card-carrying retard to knowingly bring that disease into a facility housing the exact people it was killing the most. I'm glad to see you're still defending the decision, though. Makes it pretty clear how credible you are with everything else you're saying.

It's not hindsight. It's common sense, and some states did it correctly, while a few (all blue) did it very incorrectly, and have since been covering up the death data.

Again, nice pivot regarding cloth masks. You went from saying yesterday that no medical professional has made the case that cloth masks are useful, to saying that cloth masks are useful if they're made right. What? So which one is it? And if "good" cloth masks are so useful, can you explain why the criteria of a "good" mask was never communicated to the American people? (I'd also like to see credible studies confirming this, because it seems like you're talking out of your ass again.)

The bottom line is that cloth masks as currently worn by Americans are not very useful. The media and Democrats have not been honest about this. They refused to tell people to stay out of indoor spaces when possible. Instead, the message involved cleaning, distancing, and masking.

It was dishonest, and a lot of people needlessly died.

You can try to dance around that and re-spin your own words, but those are the facts.

---

Remind me again were the blue states infected first or last?

I said cloth masks aren't remarkably useful. You quoted that. You'd think you could get it right, but nope. They stopped using cloth masks in most hospitals in the 60s. Because reasons. Surgical masks were better in every conceivable way. I'm not gonna teach you basic physics or virology. Just google the differences of masks.

The messaging to a country filled with insolent children was pretty much "can you try to do something useful". Half the time you want information overload and the other half it's comforting lies. It's like it's impossible for the CDC to get anything right yet other orgs get all the excuses no matter how hard they fuck up.

But yea clearly i'm hard pivoting with my stance on masks. It's not you going for the extra mile with mental gymnastics to excuse your teams retarded anti mask stance. But hey at least we've now moved the goal post to just cloth masks. I'm sure Trump meant just cloth masks when he politized mask usage. When he made it a part of presidential campaign. That wasn't reckless at all. It's nice we hold all messaging to a same standard here.

---

And now you're pivoting to lumping me in with MAGA types who denied COVID's seriousness and felt masks were a rights violation. I was never that guy, and you know it. I have criticized those on the right who have taken that stance, and you also know that.

We're talking about the dishonest messaging from the left and media here. This wasn't a comparison of media versus Trump. This was an indictment of the way the left and media have handled COVID, which has been dishonest and dreadful.

I've never wanted "comforting lies". I've wanted the truth, and then sane public policy to follow that truth. I want a media which is honest about COVID danger and how to avoid it, not mask hysteria in order to make Republicans look bad.

The message should have been very simple: Stay out of indoor spaces, and when outdoors, keep your distance. Wear a mask to help keep others safe, but understand that it's only going to provide a little protection, and that simply avoiding indoor spaces is the biggest key. Don't bother with the deep cleaning. Get everything delivered and do curbside pickup if possible. Any time you go indoors in public, you're taking a risk, mask or no mask.

That wasn't the message. As I said, in my 15 months of living in California during this pandemic, I saw ZERO messages from the media that I'd be safer by grocery shopping online. I was told 100000000000 times that safety is achieved through masking and social distancing, though!

I'll say it again. Cloth masks, as currently worn by the ovewhelming majority of Americans, are not very useful indoors. The opposite was communicated for political reasons. It was the way to beat Trump, it was the way to keep us in crisis mode long after vaccination, and it was the way to change the fabric of America, under the cover of that crisis.

You can choose to be willfully ignorant about this, and put a halo over the heads of Democratic and media leaders, but those are the facts.

---

I'm not that bored to go looking out for the last 10 times you've asked for messaging based on wishful thinking. Things that could be true. Like just take the vaccine and you don't need to wear a mask as a ploy to have more tards take the shot. We don't know that's true. If that's true btw, then vaccinating the essential workers before the elderly was either on par or better for saving lives in the second wave of shots. Remember that discussion in this thread?

I'm not lumping you with full blown magatards. I'm saying you keep grasping at straws that make it look like the magatards were almost right about something.

I don't know if it's a civics lesson or what, but how do you see it working out when everyone avoids indoors? How do groceries find their way to Druffs door? These would be the same essential workers who you previously told to eat a bag of dicks for risking their own and family members lives, just so you could stay in your bunker.

So the top down messaging is that you should avoid indoors like the plague, except the 50 million essential workers. Those guys can get fucked. No increased pay, barely any additional safety measures and when it's vaccine time just get back of the line. Just be rich and stay in your bunker like every average american.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sanlmar

I do not want any messaging from government about how consumers should engage with business. Shop at home or in store.

Let the businesses message their customers.

I went to the grocery nearly every damn day. I have no idea what I want to eat tomorrow. The stores exercised messaging about distance and masks. The customers were extremely considerate of others. The customers were the biggest part of the equation but I live in a civilized land.

I notice people in parking lots around here still masked up as they walk to their car. Long after guideline were lifted. Very interesting.

Despite dining out, traveling, working out, and shopping all along I will probably continue to wear a mask long after there is social pressure. Nothing is lost by doing so.

---

That's pretty much how life works here. Except in the summer when there wasn't almost any cases in this part of the country, then people increased socializing and no one wore masks excluding the very frail elderly. Then in the fall numbers spiked and it was time for minor inconvenience.

I don't really know how the dialogue with my father would have gone if i was throwing a fit about keeping my distance and wearing a mask. He was born in a part of Finland that belongs to Russia now. People ate bread made out of bark during the war years. The first war was fought during one of the coldest winters ever recorded, -40 degrees celsius days in 6 feet of snow. Good times. Try explaining that generation how my mild inconvenience to keep them alive is just too oppressive.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gimmick

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gimmick

Remind me again were the blue states infected first or last?

I said cloth masks aren't remarkably useful. You quoted that. You'd think you could get it right, but nope. They stopped using cloth masks in most hospitals in the 60s. Because reasons. Surgical masks were better in every conceivable way. I'm not gonna teach you basic physics or virology. Just google the differences of masks.

The messaging to a country filled with insolent children was pretty much "can you try to do something useful". Half the time you want information overload and the other half it's comforting lies. It's like it's impossible for the CDC to get anything right yet other orgs get all the excuses no matter how hard they fuck up.

But yea clearly i'm hard pivoting with my stance on masks. It's not you going for the extra mile with mental gymnastics to excuse your teams retarded anti mask stance. But hey at least we've now moved the goal post to just cloth masks. I'm sure Trump meant just cloth masks when he politized mask usage. When he made it a part of presidential campaign. That wasn't reckless at all. It's nice we hold all messaging to a same standard here.

---

And now you're pivoting to lumping me in with MAGA types who denied COVID's seriousness and felt masks were a rights violation. I was never that guy, and you know it. I have criticized those on the right who have taken that stance, and you also know that.

We're talking about the dishonest messaging from the left and media here. This wasn't a comparison of media versus Trump. This was an indictment of the way the left and media have handled COVID, which has been dishonest and dreadful.

I've never wanted "comforting lies". I've wanted the truth, and then sane public policy to follow that truth. I want a media which is honest about COVID danger and how to avoid it, not mask hysteria in order to make Republicans look bad.

The message should have been very simple: Stay out of indoor spaces, and when outdoors, keep your distance. Wear a mask to help keep others safe, but understand that it's only going to provide a little protection, and that simply avoiding indoor spaces is the biggest key. Don't bother with the deep cleaning. Get everything delivered and do curbside pickup if possible. Any time you go indoors in public, you're taking a risk, mask or no mask.

That wasn't the message. As I said, in my 15 months of living in California during this pandemic, I saw ZERO messages from the media that I'd be safer by grocery shopping online. I was told 100000000000 times that safety is achieved through masking and social distancing, though!

I'll say it again. Cloth masks, as currently worn by the ovewhelming majority of Americans, are not very useful indoors. The opposite was communicated for political reasons. It was the way to beat Trump, it was the way to keep us in crisis mode long after vaccination, and it was the way to change the fabric of America, under the cover of that crisis.

You can choose to be willfully ignorant about this, and put a halo over the heads of Democratic and media leaders, but those are the facts.

---

I'm not that bored to go looking out for the last 10 times you've asked for messaging based on wishful thinking. Things that could be true. Like just take the vaccine and you don't need to wear a mask as a ploy to have more tards take the shot. We don't know that's true. If that's true btw, then vaccinating the essential workers before the elderly was either on par or better for saving lives in the second wave of shots. Remember that discussion in this thread?

I'm not lumping you with full blown magatards. I'm saying you keep grasping at straws that make it look like the magatards were almost right about something.

I don't know if it's a civics lesson or what, but how do you see it working out when everyone avoids indoors? How do groceries find their way to Druffs door? These would be the same essential workers who you previously told to eat a bag of dicks for risking their own and family members lives, just so you could stay in your bunker.

So the top down messaging is that you should avoid indoors like the plague, except the 50 million essential workers. Those guys can get fucked. No increased pay, barely any additional safety measures and when it's vaccine time just get back of the line. Just be rich and stay in your bunker like every average american.

---

The "essential workers" delivering groceries are a lot safer than the ones in the grocery store, especially in the areas where customers go.

"Everyone" can't avoid indoors. Some people have jobs where it's necessary to be indoors. They will be at some risk, depending upon how many people visit their place of business, and how many co-workers there are in the room with them. That doesn't mean we throw anti-indoor messaging out the window, and just pretend cloth masks work great.

I have never asked for "wishful thinking" messaging. I have asked for the truth -- or at least the truth based upon the available science at the time. It has been known for a long time that indoor transmission accounted for a very high percentage of the cases, and that masking/distancing didn't seem to be doing much to stop it. It was dishonest and dangerous for the media and politicians to imply otherwise -- basically that our COVID problem was mostly a result of irresponsible distancing/masking behavior, which it wasn't.

I know lots of well-meaning, left-wing people who didn't want to be socially isolated for a year, so they quietly got together with friends, or attended small parties. When I asked them why they were taking such a risk, they answered something like, "Oh, it's fine, we were all wearing masks, and everyone was using hand sanitizer like crazy."

These weren't dumb rubes, either. These were educated people who were so inundated by the masking-and-cleaning messaging that they really thought they were being responsible and safe. It was those dumb anti-masker MAGA types taking all the risks, you see.

The vast majority of Democratic voters still believe that Trump's refusal to push masking was a huge factor in the 550k+ COVID deaths. Why do you think that so many are misinformed about the usefulness of the average cloth mask? Why are so many people still obsessively cleaning? Do you think it's the right wing media's fault, or perhaps might the left and mainstream media have a big hand in this level of mass ignorance?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BCR

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dwai

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BCR

It must be painful to yell n-word constantly only to realize you are just a white n-word to anyone with above a room temp IQ.

There are two large coalitions of people resistant. People who think whitey is out to get them and your fringe

---

what about the 50% of Healthcare workers, 50% of military families?are these people "SCIENCE deniers" or qtards?

Trump is no longer president, seek help immediately for your problem

---

Yes, you fucking mong. Health care workers cover everything from phlebotomists with 10 week degrees to anything.

Military families are overwhelmingly young, disproportionately minorities and rural. The vast majority are young enough their decisions won’t likely hurt them, but there isn’t a single solitary logical reason to not get the vaccine from a scientific perspective. It’s been a huge success story by every conceivable metric. You’re a child arguing amongst smarter adults who are all vaccinated and discussing how to handle the regulations and issues created by trash like yourself.

---

lol go get a bag of coke ya fucking drug addict dweeb

so hostile, you got your vaccine, don't worry about other people faggot, since when before 2020 did you ever give a fuck about other people, now you're so virtuous, get over yourself you fucking drug addicted loser go bang more whores in a hotel room with a mask on

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gimmick

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dan Druff

And now you're pivoting to lumping me in with MAGA types who denied COVID's seriousness and felt masks were a rights violation. I was never that guy, and you know it. I have criticized those on the right who have taken that stance, and you also know that.

We're talking about the dishonest messaging from the left and media here. This wasn't a comparison of media versus Trump. This was an indictment of the way the left and media have handled COVID, which has been dishonest and dreadful.

I've never wanted "comforting lies". I've wanted the truth, and then sane public policy to follow that truth. I want a media which is honest about COVID danger and how to avoid it, not mask hysteria in order to make Republicans look bad.

The message should have been very simple: Stay out of indoor spaces, and when outdoors, keep your distance. Wear a mask to help keep others safe, but understand that it's only going to provide a little protection, and that simply avoiding indoor spaces is the biggest key. Don't bother with the deep cleaning. Get everything delivered and do curbside pickup if possible. Any time you go indoors in public, you're taking a risk, mask or no mask.

That wasn't the message. As I said, in my 15 months of living in California during this pandemic, I saw ZERO messages from the media that I'd be safer by grocery shopping online. I was told 100000000000 times that safety is achieved through masking and social distancing, though!

I'll say it again. Cloth masks, as currently worn by the ovewhelming majority of Americans, are not very useful indoors. The opposite was communicated for political reasons. It was the way to beat Trump, it was the way to keep us in crisis mode long after vaccination, and it was the way to change the fabric of America, under the cover of that crisis.

You can choose to be willfully ignorant about this, and put a halo over the heads of Democratic and media leaders, but those are the facts.

---

I'm not that bored to go looking out for the last 10 times you've asked for messaging based on wishful thinking. Things that could be true. Like just take the vaccine and you don't need to wear a mask as a ploy to have more tards take the shot. We don't know that's true. If that's true btw, then vaccinating the essential workers before the elderly was either on par or better for saving lives in the second wave of shots. Remember that discussion in this thread?

I'm not lumping you with full blown magatards. I'm saying you keep grasping at straws that make it look like the magatards were almost right about something.

I don't know if it's a civics lesson or what, but how do you see it working out when everyone avoids indoors? How do groceries find their way to Druffs door? These would be the same essential workers who you previously told to eat a bag of dicks for risking their own and family members lives, just so you could stay in your bunker.

So the top down messaging is that you should avoid indoors like the plague, except the 50 million essential workers. Those guys can get fucked. No increased pay, barely any additional safety measures and when it's vaccine time just get back of the line. Just be rich and stay in your bunker like every average american.

---

The "essential workers" delivering groceries are a lot safer than the ones in the grocery store, especially in the areas where customers go.

"Everyone" can't avoid indoors. Some people have jobs where it's necessary to be indoors. They will be at some risk, depending upon how many people visit their place of business, and how many co-workers there are in the room with them. That doesn't mean we throw anti-indoor messaging out the window, and just pretend cloth masks work great.

I have never asked for "wishful thinking" messaging. I have asked for the truth -- or at least the truth based upon the available science at the time. It has been known for a long time that indoor transmission accounted for a very high percentage of the cases, and that masking/distancing didn't seem to be doing much to stop it. It was dishonest and dangerous for the media and politicians to imply otherwise -- basically that our COVID problem was mostly a result of irresponsible distancing/masking behavior, which it wasn't.

I know lots of well-meaning, left-wing people who didn't want to be socially isolated for a year, so they quietly got together with friends, or attended small parties. When I asked them why they were taking such a risk, they answered something like, "Oh, it's fine, we were all wearing masks, and everyone was using hand sanitizer like crazy."

These weren't dumb rubes, either. These were educated people who were so inundated by the masking-and-cleaning messaging that they really thought they were being responsible and safe. It was those dumb anti-masker MAGA types taking all the risks, you see.

The vast majority of Democratic voters still believe that Trump's refusal to push masking was a huge factor in the 550k+ COVID deaths. Why do you think that so many are misinformed about the usefulness of the average cloth mask? Why are so many people still obsessively cleaning? Do you think it's the right wing media's fault, or perhaps might the left and mainstream media have a big hand in this level of mass ignorance?

---

So anecdotes of idiots is your reply why sane truthful information is bad for them.

And apparently in one year we've changed Trump's failures to act fast enough to being all about the masks.

We can go back to say the thanksgiving warnings. Can't quite remember anyone saying you're just fine flying across country to small family get togethers if you just wear a mask. Seems like you wouldn't need a warning of any kind if just wearing a mask was enough.

Hmmm...

https://deadline.com/2020/11/califor...ns-1234615516/

"On Friday, California’s Director of Health and Human Services, Dr. Mark Ghaly, finally outlined the state’s gathering guidelines going into the holidays.

They included such things as gathering with not more than 2 other households, keeping the time spent together to a minimum and opening windows."

"Los Angeles County Director of Public Health, Barbara Ferrer went even further on Thursday, suggesting that families hold holiday gatherings outside to allow for even more open-air circulation."

...if only there was some kinda guidance given to people that would emphasize the dangers of indoor gatherings. Just honest and truthful information that underlines what is safe. But just nothing is out there on say November the 13th in this case.