Individual accounts where?Quote:
Originally Posted by sonatine
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Individual accounts where?Quote:
Originally Posted by sonatine
Would think Dwolla accounts associated with the Mt. Gox Wells Fargo business account for Mutum Sigillum LLC...Quote:
Originally Posted by cmoneyIndividual accounts where?Quote:
Originally Posted by sonatine
To be honest, I won some free coins over at SWC and sold twice recently. Once via a GDMP to someone on seals, no problems, than yesterday opened a Coinbase.com account, sent the chips from SWC over to Coinbase, and than sold for PayPal via a site called Fastcash4bitcoins.
All within a matter of 12 hours. It was all so very easy. Time from sending off seals to landing in my PayPal account was less than 12 hours total. So it really is very easy to get your cash from SWC chips.
Although I do agree with you, in terms of how the people running seals go, that is dealing with a whole different animal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmoneyIndividual accounts where?Quote:
Originally Posted by sonatine
Im looking for more details, was a very brief post, not sure if it was Dwolla accounts being seized or Dwolla being used to find bank accounts and seize them.
That's correct, but again, on SWC you're not cashing out USD, you're cashing out BTC.Quote:
Originally Posted by cmoneyPer your logic, Poker stars or some other processor can setup pcoins.com and sell Pcoins for US dollars or any other currency. Lets say for every 1 Pcoin it cost 2 usd which you can easily purchase using your credit card from pcoins.com. Pokerstars then allows Pcoins to be used on their site. The players simply use their Pcoin wallets to fund pokerstars.com knowing that every Pcoin is worth 2 usd.Quote:
Originally Posted by anonamoose
You cant possibly think my crude example above would fly, but why is this any different than using bitcoins to play on Seals?
IMO Seals could potentially be breaking more laws than FTP or Pokerstars ever did just on a much lower scale.
I have NO idea how Zynga works, but I am assuming even though you can buy chips for usd, you can not cash them out for USD. Is that correct?
The pcoin example again is where everyone is failing on this. BTC isn't something you just buy, BTC is something that is mined. It's little pieces of computer code that is generated and solved.
It's like saying I posted several notepad files online that was encrypted that says "Hello World" and said whoever can solve the encryption on this first it's officially yours. Then someone decided to gamble with them.
There's nothing there, it's just a file on a computer on a server somewhere in the world.
Would like more info on this. On a whim on 5/12 I deposited $1,500 in to my Dwolla account for the first time. It was expected to clear on 5/15, but then on 5/15 the expected clearing date got pushed back. The money still has not been taken out of my Wells Fargo account and on Dwolla it now says "Expected clearing date: 5/20/2013 5:00 PM CST". Maybe I should call up Wells Fargo and ask them to make sure it doesn't get processed?Quote:
Originally Posted by sonatineQuote:
Originally Posted by cmoney
Im looking for more details, was a very brief post, not sure if it was Dwolla accounts being seized or Dwolla being used to find bank accounts and seize them.
:thisQuote:
Originally Posted by PLOLWould like more info on this. On a whim on 5/12 I deposited $1,500 in to my Dwolla account for the first time. It was expected to clear on 5/15, but then on 5/15 the expected clearing date got pushed back. The money still has not been taken out of my Wells Fargo account and on Dwolla it now says "Expected clearing date: 5/20/2013 5:00 PM CST". Maybe I should call up Wells Fargo and ask them to make sure it doesn't get processed?Quote:
Originally Posted by sonatine
Right, and in my example you are cashing out pcoins and not usd. You then take your pcoins to an "exchange" and get usd or whatever currency you want for them. Same as you would do for bitcoins.Quote:
Originally Posted by anonamooseThat's correct, but again, on SWC you're not cashing out USD, you're cashing out BTC.Quote:
Originally Posted by cmoney
The pcoin example again is where everyone is failing on this. BTC isn't something you just buy, BTC is something that is mined. It's little pieces of computer code that is generated and solved.
It's like saying I posted several notepad files online that was encrypted that says "Hello World" and said whoever can solve the encryption on this first it's officially yours. Then someone decided to gamble with them.
There's nothing there, it's just a file on a computer on a server somewhere in the world.
I dont understand why since it is "mined" and is a piece of code that makes any difference. What if you gave pcoins a value based on silver prices then would it be ok? Silver like bitcoins is not a government approved currency (unless the Silver is put into US treasury approved coin form) .
So now PokerStars takes pcoins backed by silver (which is a lot more stable than bitcoins) so can we now allow the US players back onto the site? The players can simply take their pcoins to an exchange and trade their pcoins for usd based on silver prices.
There is a reason why we dont have bank accounts in the US backed by gold/silver bullion even though there is a demand for it. The US government wont allow it. The US governments hates alternative currencies and will use every law they can find to stop it.
The DOJ works much like the IRS in that they seize and then ask questions later (even if they are wrong). I think it is incredibly naive to think that Micon has nothing to worry about.
[QUOTE=cmoney;150119][QUOTE=anonamoose;150110]
The DOJ works much like the IRS in that they seize and then ask questions later (even if they are wrong). I think it is incredibly naive to think that Micon has nothing to worry about.[/sQUOTE]
The DOJ get 100% the scam. This whole .EU and Bitcoins is absolutely laughable. You have a guy basically breaking the law and throwing it in the face of the DOJ. They have thrown people in jail for online poker and said don't do it again. Some people learn the hard way. You just can't openly break the law and flaunt it and expect you will not have a knock at the door.
I suspect SWC is in the clear. The government will clamp down on the exchanges that allow the BTC<->USD conversions.
The pcoins example would be the same, Pokerstars could do this, but if they also covert pcoins to USD, that would be a problem.
You're assuming too much here.Quote:
Originally Posted by cmoneyRight, and in my example you are cashing out pcoins and not usd. You then take your pcoins to an "exchange" and get usd or whatever currency you want for them. Same as you would do for bitcoins.Quote:
Originally Posted by anonamoose
I dont understand why since it is "mined" and is a piece of code that makes any difference. What if you gave pcoins a value based on silver prices then would it be ok? Silver like bitcoins is not a government approved currency (unless the Silver is put into US treasury approved coin form) .
So now PokerStars takes pcoins backed by silver (which is a lot more stable than bitcoins) so can we now allow the US players back onto the site? The players can simply take their pcoins to an exchange and trade their pcoins for usd based on silver prices.
There is a reason why we dont have bank accounts in the US backed by gold/silver bullion even though there is a demand for it. The US government wont allow it. The US governments hates alternative currencies and will use every law they can find to stop it.
The DOJ works much like the IRS in that they seize and then ask questions later (even if they are wrong). I think it is incredibly naive to think that Micon has nothing to worry about.
First, your pcoin example is way off, because you can ONLY PURCHASE them. This is 100% different than BTC. You're comparing apples to airplanes.
Second, you're assuming that people are purchasing the BTC with USD, you don't know that and can't prove that. For all you know all these people have mined all the BTC entirely for free. Go ahead show me a transaction for USD with any of the BTC on SWC. You can't. You can trace what addresses send BTC to where, but you will not find anything that dictates those BTC are ever traded for USD or any other currency.
Third, again you're comparing two things, gold and silver, to BTC. These are entirely different things.
You're drawing too many comparisons that aren't relevant and assuming way too many things that aren't there.
Liar Liar pants on fire.Quote:
Originally Posted by sonatine
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e3...rs/plumber.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by bottomset_69You do realize you are this biggest faggot on this site?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollo Tomasi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1R4rhY3qZ8
:thisQuote:
Originally Posted by lewfather
even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a whileQuote:
Originally Posted by chinamaniac
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...iconsystem.gif
Crowe Diddly wins no need for a Rep systemQuote:
Originally Posted by Crowe DiddlyQuote:
Originally Posted by Sandwich
Mao Zedong was the Chairman of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of China. No Chinaman ever called that guy just the Chairman.
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...f2/yahd2-1.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by bottomset_69It's tough to be the smartest guy around here.Quote:
Originally Posted by anonamoose
I hope that's a bit of a stretch. I stopped using dwolla when they started "verifying" accounts by requiring among other things as i recall ssn's. There has been $15 sitting in my account forever. I couldn't imagine how they could go after the thousands in my bank account. If they did, it would be blatant tyranny by our gov't. What did I do aside from buying a few btc's? If they did, I'd be one of the thousands to counter sue 'cause of the money involved. In that scenario, I don't think they'd have enough lawyers to defend their actions.Quote:
Originally Posted by sonatineQuote:
Originally Posted by cmoney
Im looking for more details, was a very brief post, not sure if it was Dwolla accounts being seized or Dwolla being used to find bank accounts and seize them.
I've been putting in some hours at SWC. I now play exclusively on SWC as MarthaMicon.
I could say it's the first time I've pretended to be a female on the internet... but I'm a really bad liar.
It's illegal for an American to own or operate a card game anywhere in the world even with a license. Micon is taking a huge risk.Quote:
Originally Posted by bottomset_69It is illegal to run a card game in the US without a license. I get the fact he is ahead of the curve on the latest scheme. But if some wily IRS / DOJ agent wants to put him in jail, he is going and there is nothing he can do about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by chinamaniac
Doesn't matter if there are USD involved. There is a currency/cash equivalent involved. Zynga chips can't be exchanged back in for cash. Bitcoins can. SWC is definitely against the law in the US and any of its owner/operator/promoters could get in serious trouble especially if they are Americans.Quote:
Originally Posted by anonamoosePlease good sir. Point me to where USD is involved on SWC.Quote:
Originally Posted by bottomset_69
lol better let Jack Binion know. He ran a lot of card games at that joint he used to own. In other news, bitcoins are up about 10% since this thread was started to declare bitcoins donkdown.Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter SobchakIt's illegal for an American to own or operate a card game anywhere in the world even with a license. Micon is taking a huge risk.Quote:
Originally Posted by bottomset_69
You're usually a smar poster but you are so completely wrong here. I can't believe I'm saying this but bottomfag is right.Quote:
Originally Posted by anonamooseYes.Quote:
Originally Posted by bottomset_69
I will also leave your inability to remember passwords out for now.
Bitcoins are a cash equivalent, like casino chips or bearer bonds. Zynga chips and Chucky Cheese tokens are. It cash equivalents because they are not freely convertible to cash even though they can be purchased. For American citizens, operating or owning or sharing in the profits of a gambling site (where people can potentially win cash or cash equivalents) is illegal EVEN if that site does not take US players and EVEN if the site is licensed in some other country. The only exception is owning 5% or less of a public company like 888. I was considering investing in a site but once I did my research I called off the dogs. Micon is living on borrowed time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter SobchakYou're usually a smar poster but you are so completely wrong here. I can't believe I'm saying this but bottomfag is right.Quote:
Originally Posted by anonamoose
Bitcoins are a cash equivalent, like casino chips or bearer bonds. Zynga chips and Chucky Cheese tokens are. It cash equivalents because they are not freely convertible to cash even though they can be purchased. For American citizens, operating or owning or sharing in the profits of a gambling site (where people can potentially win cash or cash equivalents) is illegal EVEN if that site does not take US players and EVEN if the site is licensed in some other country. The only exception is owning 5% or less of a public company like 888. I was considering investing in a site but once I did my research I called off the dogs. Micon is living on borrowed time.
I should have clarified online card game. And in Nevada or other states where they allow it, it's ok, but you won't see them taking players from out of state.Quote:
Originally Posted by manowarlol better let Jack Binion know. He ran a lot of card games at that joint he used to own. In other news, bitcoins are up about 10% since this thread was started to declare bitcoins donkdown.Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Sobchak
At Chucky Cheese you win tickets which kids (or pedo's) can convert into items. Should we alert the doj?Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter SobchakYou're usually a smar poster but you are so completely wrong here. I can't believe I'm saying this but bottomfag is right.Quote:
Originally Posted by anonamoose
Bitcoins are a cash equivalent, like casino chips or bearer bonds. Zynga chips and Chucky Cheese tokens are. It cash equivalents because they are not freely convertible to cash even though they can be purchased. For American citizens, operating or owning or sharing in the profits of a gambling site (where people can potentially win cash or cash equivalents) is illegal EVEN if that site does not take US players and EVEN if the site is licensed in some other country. The only exception is owning 5% or less of a public company like 888. I was considering investing in a site but once I did my research I called off the dogs. Micon is living on borrowed time.
Lol typing with thumbs on a mobile device is hard enough but this site runs like absolute shit on my phone. I can't go back to make sure I didn't make any dumb typosQuote:
Originally Posted by PLOLQuote:
Originally Posted by Walter Sobchak
The crime is charging a rake. Nobody gives a fuck if the rake is in dollars, euros, bitcoins, or orange futures. You charge a rake, you break the law.
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Originally Posted by simpdogAt Chucky Cheese you win tickets which kids (or pedo's) can convert into items. Should we alert the doj?Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Sobchak
chucky cheese and places like that (dave and busters ect), get around "gambling" by giving you a ticket no matter how good your score is, so you technically never actually lose...and they also provide prizes that cost only one ticket.
I have a law suit going vs Church Bazaars and Chuckie Cheese as we speak. The reason I became a degenerate gambler was because of these 2 places. Church Bazaars flat out run Dice, Roulette and Poker games for real cash to this day. Time to cash in bitches!!Quote:
Originally Posted by TexterQuote:
Originally Posted by simpdog
chucky cheese and places like that (dave and busters ect), get around "gambling" by giving you a ticket no matter how good your score is, so you technically never actually lose...and they also provide prizes that cost only one ticket.
what happened to your DanDruff accountQuote:
Originally Posted by PLOL
Chat-banned until August of 3019Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollo Tomasiwhat happened to your DanDruff accountQuote:
Originally Posted by PLOL
New Reuters article:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/u-shut...164437184.html
Not sure what is going on (perhaps related to recent frozen accounts) but bitcoin trading volume has fallen to about where it was 6 months ago, hence the extremely stable price. Either the speculators have left the market and we can expect a steady price or they are getting tired of waiting and we can expect a significant decline in near future.
I expect that the predatory EU crime syndicates have successfully bled dry all the prospectors.
With the US seizing domains/bank accounts/etc sounds like some of the gambling sites (Satoshi Dice) are starting to hide their addresses to the US to avoid having issues.
So does someone like Micon make that move too? Otherwise if SwC keeps rolling and starts to make any significant (> 5k/month) do they seize his bank accounts/condo/whatever and ask questions after?
Quote:
Feds don't plan to take down Bitcoin or other currencies
..An indictment filed by U.S. prosecutors accused Liberty Reserve of making 55 million laundering transactions for at least a million people, and it also painted the digital currency as a marketplace that enabled criminals to commit a host of illegal activities, including identify theft, credit card fraud, investment fraud, narcotics trafficking, and child pornography.
After Tuesday's raid on Liberty Reserve, many Bitcoiners feared that the feds would come down even harder on Bitcoin.
While Calvery explicitly said that the intention of FinCEN is not to go after all virtual currencies, she did make it clear that the Treasury is closely examining the digital currency market and all of its players.
"I do think we have obligation to take down the biggest U.S. money laundering [outfit] in U.S. history, that $6 billion money laundering operation," Calvery said. "If that ends up creating a broad-brush reaction that's inappropriate, that is something that would be, first of all, unanticipated. Secondly, that's something that would be addressed in the national conversation on the developing financial services industry in the weeks, months, and years to come."
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-575..._source=feedly
I have to give Micon and his crew credit. They have cleverly duped everyone with their .eu domain name. Since bitcoins are basically an avenue to launder money, you can get away with a poker site with a .eu domain because online poker is legal in Europe.
Definitely faked me out, and likely the Feds.
I would never have a poker site trading bitcoins in the US because it flies in the face of the Patriot Act because some shady motherfuckers can play one hand and chip dump to each other and cash out unnoticed. But the .eu domain is protected. So there.
Fun thing about having bitcoin bet in escrow. Interesting to see how much they will drop before Micon gives go ahead to pay. They have already dropped about 17% in the last 3 days.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?to...860#msg2416860
Looking at the dates in the OP, some of those bets were made when bitcoins were well under $20. Others were made immediately after the april crash, so those were probably worth about the same as they are right now anyway. Shit's in escrow anyway so it doesn't really matter, but interesting nonetheless.
The escrow guy won't let micon hold out too long, so he says, anyway.
I am sure this was all just a huge misunderstanding.
California trying to shutdown Bitcoins
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jonmaton...om-california/
You are the literal opposite of a loyal human being and have no shame whatsoever. Live your life with some fucking dignity for a change, have some self respect. Be a fucking man and tough out the dry spells with the rest of your friends sonatine.Quote:
Originally Posted by sonatine
You have some nerve druff, I distinctly remember you telling me you would never implement a rep system similar to skatz because "pfa and skatz are not in direct competition." What a load of horse shit.