A true visionary
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A true visionary
Quote:
Originally Posted by donkdowndonedied
This is such a fail question on so many levels I don't know where to start.Quote:
Originally Posted by DRK Star
I'd ask a similar question of a million other things....... 'What is stopping the government from ........' What branch would do this? Why? What would they sell ? Why would people not be wised up? Why do you think the price wouldn't just keep going up on the ones in circulation ? Why would people getting ripped off on a site stop people from using bitcoins? Would it stop people from using some other currency ? What would be the political fallout from this when discovered? Why does "the government" even care so much? (Contrary to popular opinion, government is not a single thinking entity, but is just an organization at the whim of whomever controls whatever branch.) Yer a nut.
Bitcoins are still going to be covered by civilian court system, just like any other contract/agreement. If I said I owe you 3 bitcoins and you gave me something in trade, you can sue me for the value of those 3 bitcoin. Unless you know otherwise.. and that seems doubtful.
Why is this a fail question?
**If I said I owe you 3 bitcoins and you gave me something in trade, you can sue me for the value of those 3 bitcoin.
Who am I suing? Its anonymous.
If the public's faith in bitcoins drops due to massive theft/fraud and there is no recourse, that would certainly affect their value/worth.
If you cant insure your transactions will be legit, that should affect it.
I have been ripped off on ebay for buying used items. The seller misrepresented it, and the item wouldnt work. I got no refund and no help from ebay. I havent purchased used items since. I felt like it was a scam and no one would assist me. Thats how it would be with bitcoins.
You assume that transactions with bitcoins *have* to be anonymous. There is nothing that makes this true. Bitcoins have this semi-anonymous property which has let them be used for black-market/anonymous transactions. That is because they're like the first thing ever to be suited for such transactions and most early adopters have leaned towards this area. Making things anonymous also makes it easier for everyone. Otherwise you have to verify IDs and all sorts of stuff that still offers little in the way of protection.Quote:
Originally Posted by DRK StarQuote:
Originally Posted by donkdowndonedied
Why is this a fail question?
**If I said I owe you 3 bitcoins and you gave me something in trade, you can sue me for the value of those 3 bitcoin.
Who am I suing? Its anonymous.
If the public's faith in bitcoins drops due to massive theft/fraud and there is no recourse, that would certainly affect their value/worth.
If you cant insure your transactions will be legit, that should affect it.
I have been ripped off on ebay for buying used items. The seller misrepresented it, and the item wouldnt work. I got no refund and no help from ebay. I havent purchased used items since. I felt like it was a scam and no one would assist me. Thats how it would be with bitcoins.
There is someone in the bitcoin world who made a 'trust' system that allowed people to grow trust by every transaction. It was based on the transaction of those already in the system, etc. I'm sure it could be gamed on some level, but it is no worse than ebay's star system which is somewhat self-serving. Things like this can be used. Maybe they'll even take over ebay 10 years from now. Bitcoins are just a form of payment.
Ebay sucks. People get scammed using all currencies. Sorry for being a bit of a dick, you seem like a nice fellow and didn't bite my troll-like response so I won't be condescending. Ebay has fucked me over too, but it had nothing to do with anyone but ebay. I use ebay when it benefits me, but I'd never rely on them for any sort of business.
Take a poker site. I can provide withdrawls/deposits using bitcoins and pretty simple software. There are no chargebacks or middleman fees. (Well not 100% true, but middlemen are negligible) Thats great, except that if my software is hacked, I can have the whole site cleaned out in one swoop. The benefits of bitcoins are often double-edged. You could also be hacked and lose your bitcoins. It takes a certain level of computer sophistication to adequately guard against these things.
No problem here with your responses. Im trying to learn more about bitcoins...it has piqued my curiosity.
From what little I know though, I assumed you could establish a marketplace where, lets say, you wanted to sell an item like a computer, and when people place their orders for your item, you receive their payments, and then theoretically, you could close shop and keep their money without sending them anything. Your store was fake (you could establish a website using all kinds of stolen/fake ID information), and people would not know who to go after to get their bitcoins back because they have no information on you, or your business. You cant trace or hunt down where those bitcoins go due to some electronic signature, can you? Even if you could, what authority is going to help you?
solid business plan. Jasep should have ran his bap using bitcoins as the investment tool, not paypal.Quote:
Originally Posted by DRK Star
You can pretty much do this with everything. As a buyer you have to protect yourself. There are risks involved in any transaction. Yes, the above could happen. The above could also happen with other currencies. You could open a shop and accept cash... now that'd set off warning bells to most people who would question the cash requirement. It is true that bitcoins enable scamming, much like WUing to people in other countries. This is likely why you won't see many businesses only accepting bitcoins for anything substantial. I open a shop in another state, request cash to a pobox. You pay and don't get your $300 item. Who do you complain to ? No one really. No one is going to help you over your $300 item.Quote:
Originally Posted by DRK Star
Bitcoins make scamming easier, just as they make accepting payments online easier. One kinda goes with the other. It is just that bitcoins don't need an actual bank account or physical address to receive funds. A scammers dream.
What are alternatives? Middlemen like paypal. Sure that 5% extra protects you as the buyer, but as a seller it just means less $$ in your pocket and the chance of you being charge-reverse scammed. I send you your computer for 3 bitcoins. Well before that happens I have my 3 bitcoins. Alternative? I accept payment through paypal. Well that charge might be reversed next week and I've lost a PC. Now I have to sell 3 more just to cover that loss. Again, btc are a double-edged sword, much like paypal. People are selective in the "problems" they see with bitcoins because most people don't like change or things they don't understand.
There are plenty of bitcoin escrow services available, and a lot of sites make their use mandatory.Quote:
Originally Posted by DRK Star
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowe DiddlyThere are plenty of bitcoin escrow services available, and a lot of sites make their use mandatory.Quote:
Originally Posted by DRK Star
AH! Didnt know this. Thats actually good to hear.
<unless, of course, the escrow service decides to screw everyone...who regulates them?>
Kahnawake Escrow Commission, obv.Quote:
Originally Posted by DRK StarQuote:
Originally Posted by Crowe Diddly
AH! Didnt know this. Thats actually good to hear.
<unless, of course, the escrow service decides to screw everyone...who regulates them?>
:lol3
http://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2013...cent-in-value/
Bitcoin had a crash yesterday
How do you define crash? I see a downspike followed by quick recovery. End result is practically no change, still trading at $45 per BTC.Quote:
Originally Posted by DRK Star
SWC has an actual client for PC now:
https://sealswithclubs.eu/beta-client/
I still won't play there but I will say that is an improvement because I would never play for real funds through a website only poker room and I'm sure their are several others like me with that same opinion.
I guess this was out of a little while privately but this is a public beta now I believe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerAndPoker
why?
Pokerroom web-only client was god back in the day
I just don't trust browser security for a low budget poker room. The SWC software looks like a 12 year old wrote it.Quote:
Originally Posted by CorriganQuote:
Originally Posted by BeerAndPoker
why?
Pokerroom web-only client was god back in the day
I ran 2 bitcoins worth of chips (that soembody sent me) up to 20 Bitcoins worth of chips on SWC, which would now be worth $1,000, but at the time was only worth like $150. Was going to try to run it up to 100 Bitcoins, but obviously went on to bust my account.
Why dont we rent a hotel room at a shitty casino (there are places u can rent m-f for $15/night) and just mine the bitcoins there? Let the casino/slot players play the electric bill for mining the coins. I've never heard of a hotel kicking somebody out for using too much electricity.
In March 2013, 1 BTC traded over $40. Taking into account the total number of bitcoins mined, the monetary base of the bitcoin network stands at over 400 million USD.
According to Reuters, undisclosed documents indicate that financial firms such as Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs have visited bitcoin exchanges as often as 30 times a day. Additionally, employees of other international banks and major financial organizations have shown interest in bitcoin.
Electrical codes bro, the outlets will be 15amp. You can get 60amp plugins at RV parks and often plug into 2 poles. What is the rate of return on mining now?Quote:
Originally Posted by SetofKs
Bitcoins themselves will continue to increase in value in the short term, but there are two major dangers that can cause a huge crash:
1) A major hacking or theft of bitcoins (this already happened once, and the value plummeted to a few cents each)
2) US government invervention
I think #2 is the bigger problem. The hackings seem to cause a temporary panic, followed by a recovery.
Anyone who thinks the US government can't seriously put a damper on bitcoin value is fooling themselves. Right now, the government has done zero to crack down on them, which makes it appear that nothing will happen (much in the way that it appeared that way for Full Tilt and Pokerstars before April 15, 2011).
However, since the value of bitcoins is entirely market driven, any sort of serious government action will decimate them, and most will panic to get rid of their coins.
The US government cannot shut down bitcoins, but they can cause enough trouble to where the monetary value will fall to nearly zero, and unlike the hackings, that will not recover quickly or at all.
Last price:$54.74000 High:$55.00000
Last price:$57.00001 High:$62.00000
Last price:$61.99000 High:$63.78700
Last price:$62.50146 High:$63.78700
Last price:$64.88900 High:$64.99980
never saw something appreciate in value so quickly in my life.
It absolutely amazes me that anyone would pay $65 for a unit that was basically invented by some guy in Japan on his computer. I can just see him drinking some beers with his buddies, laughing saying "See I told you mutherfuckers this shit was going to work"
I remember 2 years ago saying that 10$ per coin was expensive. Maybe I'm a tight ass
Russian mob manipulation for sure.
It is rapidly rising because it's an unknown entity and many have seen the previous rise over the past few months.
Some probably believe that, if they get in now in the low $60s, it will end up at $200 or $300 and they will make bank.
I think Matt the Rat brought up a great point last night that $100 might be a psychological barrier that might cause the whole thing to crash -- that many might sell at $100 and then the price will go tumbling down.
The price is rising because more people are being turned on to it, simple as that. Supply and demand. More people are learning about it because of increased media coverage and large websites adopting it as a payment option.
A similar thing happened about 2 years ago when a few major magazines wrote about bitcoin. The result was an enormous spike, shortly followed by a huge crash. This looks like the same thing, just more gradual.
WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?Quote:
Originally Posted by SrslySirius
This BITCOIN you have a hard on for was invented by some computer programmer in Japan. It's backed by absolutely NOTHING. What do you NOT understand about this? Some guy developed a computer currency way back way in 2009 and a bunch of fucking suckers believe in it because they either have no jobs or are trying to do some shady shit.
Definitely seems like this latest push is pure speculation though. People see how it went from 12>40 and want to get in on it. Bubble going to burst at some point
I don't have a hard-on for bitcoin. I never made any claims about the legitimacy or long-term viability of bitcoin. It's always a false dichotomy with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by The_PHA
I just explained why I believe the price has been going up. More people have learned about it and more people are buying. When supply is limited and demand increases, prices go up. The same would happen with magic beans. You know this.
Ok then, I thought you had some kind of interest if Bit Coins. My bad if that was not the case.Quote:
Originally Posted by SrslySiriusI don't have a hard-on for bitcoin. I never made any claims about the legitimacy or long-term viability of bitcoin. It's always a false dichotomy with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by The_PHA
I just explained why I believe the price has been going up. More people have learned about it and more people are buying. When supply is limited and demand increases, prices go up. The same would happen with magic beans. You know this.
I know your buddy is Micon though. You may want to tell him there were a few payment processors made an example of, and the Feds are not stupid and they get the fact online poker is illegal and bitcoin is basically laundering.
Is there any method of shorting bit coins?
I would assume not other than just not buying any being the most +EV move
Sure, I have an interest in it. I'm by no means a proponent or fanboy. I just like to watch and see what happens with it. I'm skeptical that it's all going to crash and burn the way you and Druff say, but I don't care enough to put any money into it. Nor am I confident enough in that belief.Quote:
Originally Posted by The_PHAOk then, I thought you had some kind of interest if Bit Coins. My bad if that was not the case.Quote:
Originally Posted by SrslySirius
I know your buddy is Micon though. You may want to tell him there were a few payment processors made an example of, and the Feds are not stupid and they get the fact online poker is illegal and bitcoin is basically laundering.
I very much doubt there's anything I could say to Micon that would dissuade him from working on SWC.
Last price:$64.73002 High:$66.00000
That said, I do have about 3 BTC that I bought on the cheap a long time ago, and I'm thinking I should probably cash them shits out soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by chinamaniac