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so woke, how do you even sleep at night?Quote:
Originally Posted by MumblesBadly
Druff, pat yourself on the back for an excellent job rallying good folks to defend against discrimination and bigotry in America with this highly informative thread.
P.S. I never would have considered donating to her reelction campaign if but you bringing attention to this matter. Well done, sir!
I'm saying he isn't racist, but rather just racially insensitive. The situation with not renting to blacks is a perfect example. If it's done because you hate black people and don't want them on your property, you're racist. If it's done because you think blacks are more likely to stiff you on the rent, you're racist. If you otherwise have no problem with black people but know that white renters will not renew their lease if they see black people, you're still a jerk for coddling others' racism in order to make more money, but you're not racist yourself. I believe Trump was in that last category, and it was incredibly common at the time among owners of high-end apartment buildings.Quote:
Originally Posted by blake
Regarding "blaming black accountants' laziness on their race", those are hearsay reports, and there are a ton about Trump. I simply do not see Trump as a racist, nor an anti-Semite. His words and actions don't support it.
The biggest two charges of racism against Trump during his Administration/campaign:
- The Muslim immigration ban. Whether or not you agree, this wasn't done for reasons of racism. It was done because Trump perceived that Muslims were coming into this country to commit acts of terror, and it was impossible to determine which ones were coming for innocent reasons and which ones weren't.
- The Wall. Whether or not you agree, this wasn't done for reasons of racism. Trump wanted this because he believed that illegal immigrants were a drain on this country's resources, and were increasing crime. Again, not racist.
Yet if you ask the average US leftist why they feel Trump is racist, you're almost sure to hear one of the above two things, along with the stupid "fine people on both sides" comment.
I also don't believe Trump stokes racial tension. We did have a President who did that -- Obama. How often did Obama speak directly about racial issues and take sides? Did you notice how much worse race relations got during Obama's second term, after decades of slow improvement?
Trump was never trying to court the white nationalist vote. He accidentally appealed to them, and then didn't want to chase them away, as he loved support from anywhere and didn't want to potentially lose votes. He doesn't talk in code to them That's a bunch of stupid conspiracy nonsense, as dumb as the conspiracies being peddled by the alt-right.
If Trump spoke honestly about the white nationalists without anyone else hearing, he'd tell you, "I think they're misguided trash, but they love me, they fervently support me, and they encourage others to vote for me, so I don't want to drive them away."
Also notice that I am not a brainwashed Trump supporter or anything. I've posted plenty of bad things about him (including in the last few pages here), so I'm not blind to his faults. If he were a racist, I would say so.
I'd never heard of this woman but it's self-evidently obvious she did contract a fake marriage with her brother along with a fake divorce and reconciliation with her real husband. Why isn't the investigative media all over this?
Maybe he's not actually racist. I'm sure he prefers white people because white people are more likely to vote for him and go to his rallies and chant. If his rallies were all black and brown people, he'd prob be shitting all over white people. So I guess that's fair.
But, there are definitely a shitload of racists in this country , and all of them are more likely to spread their hatred and treat black and brown people even shittier now than 3 years ago. It will be even worse in 5 years if he gets reelected. We shouldn't stand for that.
On the other hand, if Israel didn't treat Muslims like shit in the middle east, and Trumps base didn't treat Muslims like terrorists over here, she probably wouldn't have the views she has.
Yes, some white supremacist types have felt more emboldened since Trump got elected.Quote:
Originally Posted by duped_samaritan
However, it's not nearly as bad for race relations as what happened during the Obama years, where instead of uniting the country, he divided it terribly by taking sides in complicated matters like the Ferguson shooting. Every year for decades was a step forward, and suddenly we took a step back during Obama's second term. That did far more damage to race relations in this country than a small number of idiot white supremacists who honestly disgust most of the country, including most Republicans.
Obama basically made black people think the police were out to get them, and it made white people think that black people were violent thugs who blame the police for their own criminal actions. Not a good look on either side.
It's as if you and I are living in two different universes at this point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan DruffYes, some white supremacist types have felt more emboldened since Trump got elected.Quote:
Originally Posted by duped_samaritan
However, it's not nearly as bad for race relations as what happened during the Obama years, where instead of uniting the country, he divided it terribly by taking sides in complicated matters like the Ferguson shooting. Every year for decades was a step forward, and suddenly we took a step back during Obama's second term. That did far more damage to race relations in this country than a small number of idiot white supremacists who honestly disgust most of the country, including most Republicans.
Obama basically made black people think the police were out to get them, and it made white people think that black people were violent thugs who blame the police for their own criminal actions. Not a good look on either side.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan DruffI'm saying he isn't racist, but rather just racially insensitive. The situation with not renting to blacks is a perfect example. If it's done because you hate black people and don't want them on your property, you're racist. If it's done because you think blacks are more likely to stiff you on the rent, you're racist. If you otherwise have no problem with black people but know that white renters will not renew their lease if they see black people, you're still a jerk for coddling others' racism in order to make more money, but you're not racist yourself. I believe Trump was in that last category, and it was incredibly common at the time among owners of high-end apartment buildings.Quote:
Originally Posted by blake
Regarding "blaming black accountants' laziness on their race", those are hearsay reports, and there are a ton about Trump. I simply do not see Trump as a racist, nor an anti-Semite. His words and actions don't support it.
The biggest two charges of racism against Trump during his Administration/campaign:
- The Muslim immigration ban. Whether or not you agree, this wasn't done for reasons of racism. It was done because Trump perceived that Muslims were coming into this country to commit acts of terror, and it was impossible to determine which ones were coming for innocent reasons and which ones weren't.
- The Wall. Whether or not you agree, this wasn't done for reasons of racism. Trump wanted this because he believed that illegal immigrants were a drain on this country's resources, and were increasing crime. Again, not racist.
Yet if you ask the average US leftist why they feel Trump is racist, you're almost sure to hear one of the above two things, along with the stupid "fine people on both sides" comment.
I also don't believe Trump stokes racial tension. We did have a President who did that -- Obama. How often did Obama speak directly about racial issues and take sides? Did you notice how much worse race relations got during Obama's second term, after decades of slow improvement?
Trump was never trying to court the white nationalist vote. He accidentally appealed to them, and then didn't want to chase them away, as he loved support from anywhere and didn't want to potentially lose votes. He doesn't talk in code to them That's a bunch of stupid conspiracy nonsense, as dumb as the conspiracies being peddled by the alt-right.
If Trump spoke honestly about the white nationalists without anyone else hearing, he'd tell you, "I think they're misguided trash, but they love me, they fervently support me, and they encourage others to vote for me, so I don't want to drive them away."
Also notice that I am not a brainwashed Trump supporter or anything. I've posted plenty of bad things about him (including in the last few pages here), so I'm not blind to his faults. If he were a racist, I would say so.
:thisQuote:
Originally Posted by duped_samaritan
it boggles my mind that you give him the benefit of the doubt so often. it's crazy to me. how many coincidences does it take for it to no longer be a coincidence? i actually believe what you're suffering from is cognitive dissonance. alternatively you don't believe anything you're saying.
i think it's the latter for one primary reason. you hear trump speak and have seen his tweets yet you don't believe "the hearsay reports" about trump disparaging minorities? you're just flatout lying here. if you claim you don't believe these reports, you're just lying.
BLAKE THE ANTI-SEMITE AMIRITE?
Quote:
Originally Posted by blake
Which "coincidences" are you referring to? Most of this stuff is where people are twisting Trump's words to mean something much worse than what he really meant. If someone talks enough, there's always opportunities to do stuff like this to them, especially a guy like Trump who just mouths off without thinking about his words.
Even if Trump really thinks black people are "lazy", that's more a prejudice than outright racism, and as has already been pointed out here, everyone has their own prejudices, even if they don't voice them. For example, people who think Jews are cheap aren't necessarily anti-Semites.
I honestly think Trump is just a narcissist who walks around mainly thinking about himself, and while he may have some low-grade prejudices regarding blacks and other minorities, he's not a racist or someone who supports any kind of white supremacy movement.
The white supremacists basically said to Trump, "We love you, you're exactly the President we've been waiting for, and we are going to tell everyone to vote for you", and Trump doesn't want to say, "No, you guys are scum, I don't want your support, fuck off", because he's afraid they will turn against him and erode some of his support. I'm not defending this, but I'm just stating that this type of thing is how politics has worked for a long time.
What's more disturbing is how people like Ilhan Omar won't even say that they condemn al Qaeda -- a group which seeks to destroy the United States and would kill everyone here if they could.
You realize white supremacists would kill all the jews if they could, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
People def twist Trumps words unfairly _sometimes_.(i'm guilty of this, though mostly for humor)
People def twist Omars words _sometimes_ (like you)
'Trump is definitely not racist and Omar definitely is' is just such a ridiculous stance to have imo.
If you're gonna use the "Trumps not racist, he's just racially insensitive....even if he says black people are lazy - that's not racist, he's just saying things he says" argument, I don't see how you could possibly conclude that Omar is definitely racist.
Blake we get it you bought the living single DVD set in 03 and married an annoying black chick
I'm out of reps. I owe you a green one here.Quote:
Originally Posted by duped_samaritanYou realize white supremacists would kill all the jews if they could, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
People def twist Trumps words unfairly _sometimes_.(i'm guilty of this, though mostly for humor)
People def twist Omars words _sometimes_ (like you)
'Trump is definitely not racist and Omar definitely is' is just such a ridiculous stance to have imo.
If you're gonna use the "Trumps not racist, he's just racially insensitive....even if he says black people are lazy - that's not racist, he's just saying things he says" argument, I don't see how you could possibly conclude that Omar is definitely racist.
Do you think Ilhan Omar hates Jews?Quote:
Originally Posted by duped_samaritanYou realize white supremacists would kill all the jews if they could, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
People def twist Trumps words unfairly _sometimes_.(i'm guilty of this, though mostly for humor)
People def twist Omars words _sometimes_ (like you)
'Trump is definitely not racist and Omar definitely is' is just such a ridiculous stance to have imo.
If you're gonna use the "Trumps not racist, he's just racially insensitive....even if he says black people are lazy - that's not racist, he's just saying things he says" argument, I don't see how you could possibly conclude that Omar is definitely racist.
Do you think Ilhan Omar is at all sympathetic toward al Qaeda?
Who do you think Ilhan Omar likes better -- Jews or al Qaeda?
Ask yourself these questions honestly.
And yes, I realize white supremacists would kill all Jews if they could. I also realize that they're a tiny minority in this country and don't hold positions of power, so I'm not too worried.
She obviously hates Israeli policies. I'm not sure if she's actually an antisemite. Probably not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan DruffDo you think Ilhan Omar hates Jews?Quote:
Originally Posted by duped_samaritan
Do you think Ilhan Omar is at all sympathetic toward al Qaeda?
Who do you think Ilhan Omar likes better -- Jews or al Qaeda?
Ask yourself these questions honestly.
And yes, I realize white supremacists would kill all Jews if they could. I also realize that they're a tiny minority in this country and don't hold positions of power, so I'm not too worried.
No. I think she's sympathetic to Muslims who are treated like shit because of al Qaedas actions. If you put the comments you bring up in context, that much is clear. Especially the "some people did some thing" one.
Jews. Even if she hates them, she can't possibly think they are worse than a group whose soul goal in life is to kill innocent people.
I do think she married her brother though, and I also find her a pretty unremarkable as a politician.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/beta.wa...outputType=ampQuote:
Originally Posted by Dan DruffI'm saying he isn't racist, but rather just racially insensitive. The situation with not renting to blacks is a perfect example. If it's done because you hate black people and don't want them on your property, you're racist. If it's done because you think blacks are more likely to stiff you on the rent, you're racist. If you otherwise have no problem with black people but know that white renters will not renew their lease if they see black people, you're still a jerk for coddling others' racism in order to make more money, but you're not racist yourself. I believe Trump was in that last category, and it was incredibly common at the time among owners of high-end apartment buildings.Quote:
Originally Posted by blake
Regarding "blaming black accountants' laziness on their race", those are hearsay reports, and there are a ton about Trump. I simply do not see Trump as a racist, nor an anti-Semite. His words and actions don't support it.
The biggest two charges of racism against Trump during his Administration/campaign:
- The Muslim immigration ban. Whether or not you agree, this wasn't done for reasons of racism. It was done because Trump perceived that Muslims were coming into this country to commit acts of terror, and it was impossible to determine which ones were coming for innocent reasons and which ones weren't.
- The Wall. Whether or not you agree, this wasn't done for reasons of racism. Trump wanted this because he believed that illegal immigrants were a drain on this country's resources, and were increasing crime. Again, not racist.
Yet if you ask the average US leftist why they feel Trump is racist, you're almost sure to hear one of the above two things, along with the stupid "fine people on both sides" comment.
I also don't believe Trump stokes racial tension. We did have a President who did that -- Obama. How often did Obama speak directly about racial issues and take sides? Did you notice how much worse race relations got during Obama's second term, after decades of slow improvement?
Trump was never trying to court the white nationalist vote. He accidentally appealed to them, and then didn't want to chase them away, as he loved support from anywhere and didn't want to potentially lose votes. He doesn't talk in code to them That's a bunch of stupid conspiracy nonsense, as dumb as the conspiracies being peddled by the alt-right.
If Trump spoke honestly about the white nationalists without anyone else hearing, he'd tell you, "I think they're misguided trash, but they love me, they fervently support me, and they encourage others to vote for me, so I don't want to drive them away."
Also notice that I am not a brainwashed Trump supporter or anything. I've posted plenty of bad things about him (including in the last few pages here), so I'm not blind to his faults. If he were a racist, I would say so.
You're one dumb jew, Todd.
i'm not saying you should be worried about white supremacists, but you need to consider the fact that trump has given future republican presidential candidates a 100% foolproof blueprint to winning the republican nomination: 1) run on policies popular to white supremacists; and 2) use language that doesn't hide your courting white supremacists.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan DruffDo you think Ilhan Omar hates Jews?Quote:
Originally Posted by duped_samaritan
Do you think Ilhan Omar is at all sympathetic toward al Qaeda?
Who do you think Ilhan Omar likes better -- Jews or al Qaeda?
Ask yourself these questions honestly.
And yes, I realize white supremacists would kill all Jews if they could. I also realize that they're a tiny minority in this country and don't hold positions of power, so I'm not too worried.
how do you think your standard mitt romney or marco rubio type candidate does in future republican primaries against a trump-like republican who says "i want the US to be a christian nation and i want all immigration stopped." if you're being honest, you'll admit the trump-like candidate steamrolls the field.
do you think if a videotape comes out with trump using the n-word, he loses even one vote? honestly, he might gain votes. how about if he goes hardcore anti-jew? his popularity would likely increase by 10 points. you know this is true.
my point in saying this is that trump has shown there is no political price to be paid by taking actions or making statements that are at least perceived to be anti-minority. to the contrary -- it's a hugely successful approach -- at least as a republican. i'm not a historian, but this seems new to me. so when you say "white supremacists are a tiny minority so they don't worry me," maybe they should. appealing to "this tiny minority" -- even if unintentional-- equals winning the republican nomination.
the irony of my argument here is that i loathe just about each and every democrat running and i probably prefer trump's policies over the dems more often than not. the dems being gigantic pussies are largely responsible for trump's rise, and the dems should debate trump's policies on their merits without resorting to the race card every time.
i just wish he could show a little humility and at least consider how minorities might view his rhetoric. when crowds at your rallies are chanting "send them back" (to congresswomen who are american citizens from the US), you might want to recognize just how damaging your statements are to the future of this country, even if it makes for good present-day politics.
blake literally married a chick who tried to sell nudes on twitter and got no dms
but wait theres literally more sonatine uses a mop as a wig and also tries to sell nudes on twitter A COUPLE 3 SALES SO FAR
also blake its 100 percent relevant
Wake up Druff, Trump is a total racist. He wants more immigration from countries like Norway. Like Scandinavians are going to flock to America if they had the opportunity, lol. He wants less immigration from “shithole” countries, like Haiti and Africa. White is good, black is bad. The whole point of immigration was to bring people here from “shithole” countries, like Ireland and China, and exploit their cheap labor. How has that worked out?
Nevertheless, I actually might vote for Trump (but he has no chance in California, so my vote won’t matter) and hope the Dems keep control of the House. The economy is really good. Our Constitution was designed to keep a demagogue like Trump in check. It’s working just like the Founding Fathers envisioned.
This thread so full of lies and misinformation.
Being a GOP today you have to be a 100 % hypocrite and a liar
How is she an anti-Semite and Trump isn't when she has apologized for everything and hasn't repeated it,
Trump still has this on his twitter feed
Can't wait for druff to address this, "Omar is clearly a jew hater, trump's tweet was misinterpreted because (Fill in the blank w/BS)"
& where is the thread about how un-american Mike Lee and Rand Paul (and Trump) are?
Come on Jimmy, both of these are misleading.
That Hillary ad with the Jewish star was indeed made by an anti-Semite, but Trump had no idea what he was doing when he retweeted it. He thought it was a good anti-Hillary social media piece, and didn't put that star together with what it really meant. It's not like Trump himself designed it. That's what Trump does. He shoots off on social media without stopping and thinking about it.
Note that Ilhan Omar ACTUALLY SAID that Jewish money was making politicians support Israel. Nothing to interpret there. She actually said it.
The 9/11 first responders graphic was also misleading. Rand Paul felt that voting for it caused the government to have an open-ended financial commitment which wasn't well defined, and could last decades. He wasn't against helping the first responders, but wanted "more study" before approving something. Ilhan Omar was just voting on something which seemed obvious to her on the surface and also would have been political suicide NOT to vote for. Rand Paul likes being a rebel and doesn't give a shit about what people think. Personally I disagree with Rand on this one, because time of the essence, and there aren't enough of these first responders needing help to where it would put any kind of dent in the federal budget.
But no, Ilhan wasn't voting for this because she "loves America", and Rand wasn't voting against it because he "hates America".
Still waiting for Ilhan to denounce al Qaeda. Why won't she?
What you're basically saying is that Trump stumbled upon a winning political formula where he could gain support from mostly apolitical yokels by expressing support for the US to return to Christian values and stopping immigration from countries where its citizens are perceived as dangerous.Quote:
Originally Posted by blake
And yes, that was mostly a winning formula in 2016, as it captured the votes of people who either weren't going to vote or hadn't really considered Republicans being aligned with their interests.
But honestly, that speaks to what the Democrats have been doing in recent years more than the Republicans.
There's a certain segment of society which, while not previously conservative, feels vilified and left out by all the "heterosexual Christian white people should feel guilty and have too much privilege" rhetoric from the left. Some of the others are confused and disturbed by the rhetoric by the loud extremists within the Democratic Party, which is mostly going unchallenged by the mainstream, and in fact is starting to creep into the mainstream.
The Democratic Party has basically scared away a lot of the swing voters, and Trump showed up saying, "Hang on, I understand you. This is all a bunch of nonsense. No, you're not a bad person for being white and Christian. No, there aren't 52 genders. Yes, Muslims really are the ones we need to watch out for when it comes to terrorism, and it's not bad to think that. Yes, illegal immigration from Mexico really is out of control, and it's not racist to think that."
And these people were like, "Yeah, sweet, this guy gets it. I finally understand a politician again, even if this guy seems like kind of a jerk. Okay, I'm supporting him."
The Democrats created Trump, not the Republicans. They still fail to understand that. Most Democrats think that racist America and right-wing dog whistles gave rise to Trump.
The Dems don't realize that there's only so much you can pander to your extreme elements before you start to alienate the mainstream. Interestingly, the same thing happened to the Republicans in 1992 when the religious right started to pick up too much influence, and they lost a lot of support they once had from the Reagan Democrats.
Actually Rand supported the bill, he voted no on passing the bill without a vote or a conversation. Basically the Senate tried to pass the bill without Senators going on record or having a conversation, he always supported the legislation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
I don't understand how this is considered such a racist thing to say.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
Also, wouldn't Sheldon Adelson be an example of the statement being true?
I might be pretty ignorant here.
That's pretty much what AIPAC and few others do. They aren't really that coy about it. Maybe because that's what lobbying is. I really don't know what to say if Druff doesn't get that. I could try CAPITAL LETTERS and actually repeating what i said, but after that i'm out of ideas.Quote:
Originally Posted by duped_samaritanI don't understand how this is considered such a racist thing to say.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
Also, wouldn't Sheldon Adelson be an example of the statement being true?
I might be pretty ignorant here.
Oh yea and the likely reason why you wont get a stern condemnation of Al-Qaida is that she prefers to have living relatives.
Of course there is lobbyist money from pro-Israel factions in the US, but that's not why the US is pro-Israel. There's lobbyist money for nearly everything. That by itself means nothing, nor is it any kind of conspiracy.Quote:
Originally Posted by duped_samaritanI don't understand how this is considered such a racist thing to say.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
Also, wouldn't Sheldon Adelson be an example of the statement being true?
I might be pretty ignorant here.
Israel is our ally mainly because they are very strategically located in an area where most countries hate us (and the entire West), and the few other that don't simply tolerate us. They're a Western-style country with a democracy and society relatively similar to ours.
It's not like Israel was a seemingly randomly-picked ally which seems to be getting favorable treatment due to lobbyist money. There are very clear and tangible reasons why it's smart for the US to be allies with Israel. Anyone who thinks otherwise is either an ignorant moron or an anti-Semite (or both).
Ilhan Omar's message was clear: If you want to know why the US supports Israel, follow the Jew money.
That's a bad look coming from anyone, but it's especially a bad look from a Muslim who has also appeared to sympathize with anti-US Islamic terror groups, and at the very least seems to minimize their wave of killing and destruction.
It's amazing how the left is constantly engaging in fringe conspiracy theories about "racist dog whistles" regarding anything Trump says, yet they ascribe the most innocent motives to everything Omar says.
It's so obvious that Omar hates Jews. You have to be in extreme left-wing denial to not at least admit that.
Read this and be embarrassed for being a pawn of the extreme Christian rightwing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan DruffOf course there is lobbyist money from pro-Israel factions in the US, but that's not why the US is pro-Israel. There's lobbyist money for nearly everything. That by itself means nothing, nor is it any kind of conspiracy.Quote:
Originally Posted by duped_samaritan
Israel is our ally mainly because they are very strategically located in an area where most countries hate us (and the entire West), and the few other that don't simply tolerate us. They're a Western-style country with a democracy and society relatively similar to ours.
It's not like Israel was a seemingly randomly-picked ally which seems to be getting favorable treatment due to lobbyist money. There are very clear and tangible reasons why it's smart for the US to be allies with Israel. Anyone who thinks otherwise is either an ignorant moron or an anti-Semite (or both).
Ilhan Omar's message was clear: If you want to know why the US supports Israel, follow the Jew money.
That's a bad look coming from anyone, but it's especially a bad look from a Muslim who has also appeared to sympathize with anti-US Islamic terror groups, and at the very least seems to minimize their wave of killing and destruction.
It's amazing how the left is constantly engaging in fringe conspiracy theories about "racist dog whistles" regarding anything Trump says, yet they ascribe the most innocent motives to everything Omar says.
It's so obvious that Omar hates Jews. You have to be in extreme left-wing denial to not at least admit that.
Defenders of a Racist President Use Jews as Human Shields
Trump’s bigoted attack on four congresswomen of color has nothing to do with fighting anti-Semitism.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/19/o...lhan-omar.html
I’ll cut to the chase with this quote
Quote:
Sebastian Gorka, a onetime adviser to Donald Trump, wore a medal from the Vitezi Rend, a Hungarian group historically aligned with Nazism, to one of Trump’s inaugural balls. Gorka was reportedly a member of the group, whose founder, the Hungarian autocrat Miklos Horthy, once said, “For all my life, I have been an anti-Semite.”
Max Berger is a Jewish social justice activist who has long been deeply involved in Jewish communal life. He’s the co-founder of IfNotNow, a group of American Jews devoted to ending Israel’s occupation of Palestinian territory, and recently joined Elizabeth Warren’s presidential campaign.
In a tweet this month, [Gorka] tarred [Berger] as an anti-Semite. If you’ve been following the increasingly bizarre turn that American discussion of anti-Semitism has taken, you can probably guess which one.
[Gorka’s] tweet was a particularly brazen example of how right-wing gentiles are wrapping themselves in a smarmy philo-Semitism to attack the left, even when that means attacking either individual Jews or the political interests of most Jewish Americans.
Such Christian appropriation of the fight against anti-Semitism reached its grim nadir this week. As Trump’s racist invective against Ilhan Omar and three other freshman Democratic congresswomen has dominated the news, the president’s defenders have used Jews as human shields, pretending that hatred of the quartet is rooted in abhorrence of anti-Semitism. On Tuesday, an evangelical outfit called Proclaiming Justice to the Nations accused the Anti-Defamation League — the Anti-Defamation League! — of siding with anti-Semites after the ADL called out Trump’s racism. The group even had the audacity to hurl a Hebrew denunciation
— “lashon hara,” or “evil tongue” — at the Jewish civil rights organization.
Republicans are only a short step away from such shamelessness when they try to deflect from the president’s racism by accusing his foes of anti-Semitism. “Montanans are sick and tired of listening to anti-American, anti-Semite, radical Democrats trash our country and our ideals,” Senator Steve Daines of Montana tweeted on Monday, proclaiming his solidarity with Trump.
It’s true that Omar has said things that were freighted with anti-Semitism, for which she has expressed regret. But it is grotesque to argue that that excuses racism against her, or that Trump’s taunts have anything to do with protecting Jews. This is a president who regularly deploys anti-Semitic tropes and whose ex-wife said that he slept with a volume of Hitler’s speeches by his bed. When speaking to American Jews, he’s called Israel “your country” and Benjamin Netanyahu “your prime minister,” suggesting that in his mind, we don’t fully belong here any more than Omar does.
...
It’s worth thinking about how we got to a point where anti-Semitism can be exploited as it has been this week. What we’re seeing is the absurd but logical endpoint of efforts to conflate anti-Semitism with anti-Zionism, and anti-Zionism with opposition to Israel’s right-wing government. Only if these concepts are interchangeable can Jewish critics of Israel be the perpetrators of anti-Semitism and gentiles who play footsie with fascism be allies of the Jewish people. Only if these concepts are the same can an evangelical group claim that Jews are being anti-Jewish when they protest Trump, because Trump loves Israel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tellafriend
druff, you're really suffering from some form of derangement syndrome. how is it possible you have so little self awareness?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan DruffOf course there is lobbyist money from pro-Israel factions in the US, but that's not why the US is pro-Israel. There's lobbyist money for nearly everything. That by itself means nothing, nor is it any kind of conspiracy.Quote:
Originally Posted by duped_samaritan
Israel is our ally mainly because they are very strategically located in an area where most countries hate us (and the entire West), and the few other that don't simply tolerate us. They're a Western-style country with a democracy and society relatively similar to ours.
It's not like Israel was a seemingly randomly-picked ally which seems to be getting favorable treatment due to lobbyist money. There are very clear and tangible reasons why it's smart for the US to be allies with Israel. Anyone who thinks otherwise is either an ignorant moron or an anti-Semite (or both).
Ilhan Omar's message was clear: If you want to know why the US supports Israel, follow the Jew money.
That's a bad look coming from anyone, but it's especially a bad look from a Muslim who has also appeared to sympathize with anti-US Islamic terror groups, and at the very least seems to minimize their wave of killing and destruction.
It's amazing how the left is constantly engaging in fringe conspiracy theories about "racist dog whistles" regarding anything Trump says, yet they ascribe the most innocent motives to everything Omar says.
It's so obvious that Omar hates Jews. You have to be in extreme left-wing denial to not at least admit that.
you've given trump a pass for tons of examples of potential racism and even went so far as to conclusively determine that "he's not racist", yet omar's line -- "it's all about the benjamins" -- conclusively defines her as anti-semitic. that she may be blasting israeli lobbying is not even possible in your world.
take this from someone who genuinely hates every politician involved -- you're quickly departing from even mildly objective to a conservative mumbles. (sorry but it's true.)
and please don't cite examples of you criticizing trump (albeit extremely mildly). if you have to cite examples of of your objectiveness, you're not objective
That article sucks.Quote:
Originally Posted by MumblesBadly
Typical highly biased NY Times garbage.
Look at how intentionally misleading it.
Here's how it began:
"Sebastian Gorka, a onetime adviser to Donald Trump, wore a medal from the Vitezi Rend, a Hungarian group historically aligned with Nazism, to one of Trump’s inaugural balls. Gorka was reportedly a member of the group, whose founder, the Hungarian autocrat Miklos Horthy, once said, 'For all my life, I have been an anti-Semite.'"
Ugh.
So Gorka, who was a onetime adviser to Trump (that is, not a current one), and he was reportedly a member of a group whose founder said he was an anti-Semite (that is, Gorka himself didn't say he was an anti-Semite, but he was a "reportedly" a member of a group run by a guy who was.)
Come on.
That's like me writing, "Mumbles is a frequent poster on a site called PokerFraudAlert, which was once frequented by another poster named FPS_Russia, who made a large number of anti-Semitic posts. Therefore, Mumbles is an anti-Semite."
Even if Gorka really is quietly an anti-Semite pretending to take up for Jews in order to attack the left, so what? Who is he? A "onetime adviser" to Trump who nobody has ever heard of?
It should be noted that Max Berger, despite his Jewish-sounding name, is the co-founder of a group devoted to ending the Israeli occupation of Palestine. While I don't wish to get into the very complicated Palestine debate, I can tell you that I've observed that American Jews who are strongly advocating to ending the Israeli Palestine occupation tend to be anti-Israel. Oddly, there are some anti-Israel American Jews out there, and without knowing more about Berger, there's a decent chance that he's one of them.
So while it's still inaccurate to call Berger an anti-Semite, it's not as outrageous as you think, since Berger is probably quietly anti-Israel, and dressing it up as just opposing their current policies.
But seriously, who the fuck cares?
Let's say Gorka is an idiot and stupidly called a left-wing Jew an anti-Semite. And let's even say Gorka is really an anti-Semite himself.
Again, so what? This is one guy who nobody cares about.
I don't see why you are directing this at me.
I am a Jew. Nobody here disputes that.
I observed myself that Ilhan Omar was an anti-Semite. I didn't need the Christian right to tell me that. I have my own eyes and ears.
Nobody is manipulating me.
I see a Muslim politician who clearly hates Jews, and also clearly is sympathetic to terrorist groups which have attacked the US.
You don't need to be a Jew or look very hard to see any of that.
Laughably, even that lame article you posted concedes that Omar has said some anti-Semitic things, but notes that "she has expressed regret" about those comments. You've gotta be kidding me. Yeah, I'm sure she's super regretful and didn't really mean any of those things.
Why do you think I'm willing to admit Trump's fault in other areas and not this supposed racism?Quote:
Originally Posted by blakedruff, you're really suffering from some form of derangement syndrome. how is it possible you have so little self awareness?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
you've given trump a pass for tons of examples of potential racism and even went so far as to conclusively determine that "he's not racist", yet omar's line -- "it's all about the benjamins" -- conclusively defines her as anti-semitic. that she may be blasting israeli lobbying is not even possible in your world.
take this from someone who genuinely hates every politician involved -- you're quickly departing from even mildly objective to a conservative mumbles. (sorry but it's true.)
and please don't cite examples of you criticizing trump (albeit extremely mildly). if you have to cite examples of of your objectiveness, you're not objective
If I really believed he was racist, I would say so. I haven't been blind to Trump, and in fact stated many times during the 2016 primary that I really, really didn't want him to be the candidate.
The examples of Trump's "racism" are incredibly weak, and seem to be more pointing to examples of a prejudiced, racially insensitive guy than a racist who hates non-whites.
Ilhan isn't just any random politician. She's a devout Muslim, so when she makes a comment about Jewish money influencing US policy toward Israel, you take notice. Had it just been a non-Muslim Democrat saying it, I would also suspect anti-Semitism, but I would be willing to entertain the small chance that it was a general anti-lobbying statement. When it comes from a Muslim, and when her anti-lobbying focus is only upon Israel and nothing else, you'd have to be a complete idiot to not realize what she meant.
Furthermore, she has made other statements since then which reinforce the obvious.
All of Trump's controversial policies are not rooted in racism, but rather what he sees as putting "America first", as he even claimed he'd do during his campaign.
He wants to build the wall not because he hates brown people, but because he believes immigrants from Mexico burden our social systems and commit crime.
He wanted to ban Muslims from entering the country -- even as refugees -- because Muslims are the most likely immigrants to be coming here for reasons to commit acts of terror, even if the vast majority are coming for innocent reasons.
The left calls these policies borne from racism. I strongly disagree. Even if you disagree with the policies themselves, the sentiment behind them is not racist. The policies are America-centric -- with the basic principle that it's better to shut a large group of mostly innocent people out of the country if the small percentage who aren't innocent are going to hurt America.
i think one of the issues we're having is that your definition of racism is different from what is commonly accepted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan DruffWhy do you think I'm willing to admit Trump's fault in other areas and not this supposed racism?Quote:
Originally Posted by blake
If I really believed he was racist, I would say so. I haven't been blind to Trump, and in fact stated many times during the 2016 primary that I really, really didn't want him to be the candidate.
The examples of Trump's "racism" are incredibly weak, and seem to be more pointing to examples of a prejudiced, racially insensitive guy than a racist who hates non-whites.
many people would define a "prejudiced, racially insensitive" guy as racist, depending on what the prejudice was.
like, if we take trump's supposed statement that "all blacks are lazy", that would certainly be evidence of prejudice, but i think most people would deem that a racist viewpoint and consider trump a racist for thinking it.
Uhhh benefit of the doubt please at the time he meant all blacks were lazy except for oj Joe Jackson and 3 year old bo Jackson he knew he was a 2 sport star
OMG this is this level of intellect cannot come from a site owner. Unless this is really Alex Jones.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan DruffWhy do you think I'm willing to admit Trump's fault in other areas and not this supposed racism?Quote:
Originally Posted by blake
If I really believed he was racist, I would say so. I haven't been blind to Trump, and in fact stated many times during the 2016 primary that I really, really didn't want him to be the candidate.
The examples of Trump's "racism" are incredibly weak, and seem to be more pointing to examples of a prejudiced, racially insensitive guy than a racist who hates non-whites.
Ilhan isn't just any random politician. She's a devout Muslim, so when she makes a comment about Jewish money influencing US policy toward Israel, you take notice. Had it just been a non-Muslim Democrat saying it, I would also suspect anti-Semitism, but I would be willing to entertain the small chance that it was a general anti-lobbying statement. When it comes from a Muslim, and when her anti-lobbying focus is only upon Israel and nothing else, you'd have to be a complete idiot to not realize what she meant.
Furthermore, she has made other statements since then which reinforce the obvious.
All of Trump's controversial policies are not rooted in racism, but rather what he sees as putting "America first", as he even claimed he'd do during his campaign.
He wants to build the wall not because he hates brown people, but because he believes immigrants from Mexico burden our social systems and commit crime.
He wanted to ban Muslims from entering the country -- even as refugees -- because Muslims are the most likely immigrants to be coming here for reasons to commit acts of terror, even if the vast majority are coming for innocent reasons.
The left calls these policies borne from racism. I strongly disagree. Even if you disagree with the policies themselves, the sentiment behind them is not racist. The policies are America-centric -- with the basic principle that it's better to shut a large group of mostly innocent people out of the country if the small percentage who aren't innocent are going to hurt America.
The only way Trump cannot be considered a racist, which if you know his/family history is simply wrong, is that he is so stupid he's not intentionally racist. But ignorance is not a defense much like road violations. Still he's racist in one of the most racist nations in the world. Shocking
The "Everyone's a Little Bit Racist" song from Broadway play "Avenue Q" comes to mind:Quote:
Originally Posted by blakei think one of the issues we're having is that your definition of racism is different from what is commonly accepted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
many people would define a "prejudiced, racially insensitive" guy as racist, depending on what the prejudice was.
like, if we take trump's supposed statement that "all blacks are lazy", that would certainly be evidence of prejudice, but i think most people would deem that a racist viewpoint and consider trump a racist for thinking it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RovF1zsDoeM
You can think black people are lazy without hating black people or wanting bad things for them.
I don't doubt that Trump has negative thoughts about certain aspects of other races, but so does almost everyone (including non-whites about white people), and if you deny that, you're probably lying to yourself.
That doesn't mean that you can't treat people of other races fairly and respectfully.
The problem with the rhetoric I see from the left is that Trump is the "racist President" and that racism largely informs most of his decisions and plans.
That is just so far from the truth. You can say a lot of negative things about Trump, and the biggest valid criticisms of his character include narcissism, selfishness, vindictiveness, and acting/speaking/tweeting without thinking.
None of these qualities are good for a President to have, and if the left hammered these faults as reasons one shouldn't vote for Trump, I'd have a hard time arguing with them.
Racist? Nope. Just don't see it. Unless you want to go by the left's current definition of "racist", which probably would get last decade's "Avenue Q" boycotted in 2019.
but wanting bad things to happen to a certain race is not an element of racism. thinking a race of people are genetically inferior, on the other hand, is the literal definition of racism. "the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races."Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
I’m undoubtedly a racist by the standard definition. In the nature v nurture argument, I’m strongly in the nature camp in regards to raw intellect. I’m strongly in the nurture camp as far as to what degree parents churn out productive members of society. I think inherent intellect lends itself to fostering a nurturing environment in most cases.
I think Trump thinks, on some level, largely as I do. Jews are incredibly intelligent on average, which lends itself to ending up with a lot of assets and power. I think the raw intellect of the different racial makeups is rather self-evident. Our past as a nation and the misuse of eugenics type programs has led to us ignoring pretty obvious truths.
If one is being honest, no one is betting on the black kid in the science fair against the Jewish and Asian kid, and even if they were all raised in the exact same controlled environment. I’ll give you the entire population of the world in the Olympic 100m if I get someone with dna from west Africa. Same for NBA mvp. No one is taking that bet. I don’t know why we can so clearly recognize the relative strengths in athletics and pretend to ignore the rest. We all have our strengths.
Trumps narcissism is what makes him dangerous, rather than his racism. He puts himself at the top when he’s pretty clearly, at best, of average intelligence. He’s strangely street smart given his affluent background. He has a primitive acumen for being a predator. A good gut feel for manipulation of people who he shares almost nothing in common with.
So I don’t think he’s any more racist than I am. I think he’s incredibly delusional and mentally ill. I also think he’s borderline genius at manipulation, so any notion that he’s not fully aware that he courts the dumbest white nationalists and plays to them is silliness. He knows exactly what he’s doing. I don’t think he’s anti-Semitic, but he doesn’t do them any favors as far as chilling his base out and pointing out their contributions to America and the world, because that would cost him, and it’s always about him.
He does populism better than anyone I’ve ever seen. It’s amazing to become the champion to poor dumb white trash given the giant silver spoon he was born with. I would have thought it undoable if I didn’t watch him do it. And he’s done it through racism and fear. At the root of their love for him, it’s always that.
Make America Great again is simply make America white again and anyone smart knows this. Its genius because it sounds harmless. It’s so easy to defend. Who doesn’t want America to be great? Where he’s dangerous is that he’s emboldened a bunch of dumb white people who would have never been great in any America, under any circumstance, even when the deck was stacked in their favor. The type of white people who think the white kid would win the science fair if not for all the Jews and Asian kids being given some leg up. That’s a more dangerous racism. I’d blindly bet against the white kid even in a controlled environment. I’d occasionally lose, it isn’t the 100m dash, but I’d win most of the time. To me that’s the difference between casual racism and white supremacy. I’d take the Jewish kid. I think I’m likely smarter than the average Jew, but I’m not of the mind I’m taking down the top % in any intellectual pursuit anymore than I ever looked at a black team I was playing against and assumed I was likely faster.
So it isn’t really his personal beliefs that scare me. He’s a garden variety racist in the way most are if being honest. It’s his courting of some incredibly dumb people and his personal narcissism that may possibly lead to serious trouble. Thinking you’re the smartest person in the room when you’re clearly not and you’re in charge of the worlds largest superpower is a precarious spot. That’s the dangerous part of Trump. That he fires up the poor white trash is temporarily problematic, but we were already an incredibly divided country anyway. If he makes dumb white people feel their fail lives are someone else’s fault, I see little distinction between that and some black activist who convinces the black community they are not largely causing their own problems. People reside in trailer parks and the hood for mostly the same reasons. Bad choices and generational family dysfunction.
He’s way more divisive than an Obama, and I find those comparisons silly. He’s more divisive simply because poor white working class people were pretty complacent to their plight. More depressed than angry. He gets them angry. Black people were already angry.
If he was giving tough love to everyone, I’d almost admire him. That would be leadership. That’s where I can’t understand the love he gets from chamber of commerce Republicans beyond tax cuts. He’s a white Sharpton or community activist. He has the same message to a different audience. He’s simply telling white people it isn’t the four kids by three dads and abandoning your kids and neck tattoos that’s causing the problem, it’s the system thats rigged and the Mexicans and whatever when that’s rarely the cause. That’s not leadership. It’s the same message the other race provocateurs preach. If he was yelling unpleasant truths in a constructive manner some of what he does would be productive rather than divisive.
It’s a shame he’s so mentally ill. We needed someone like him as a country in many ways, the guy who isn’t afraid to say anything, just not one with his obvious shortcomings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blake