Are college degrees overrated?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by donkdowndonedied

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 4Dragons

Because you are internalizing and feeling that it somehow applies to you.

---

No, don't think thats it. I think the idea that some guy who got into harvard worked at your grandfather's mechanic is what made the bitter shine. Dream on though my friend.

The large companies do it as a cover your ass type thing. If you want to make it anywhere without a degree either work at a smaller company or do it yourself. It is all pretty much cover your ass syndrome, not so much 'do what i had to do'. Thats nice and simple, but fail. You bitter types always love to put forth this idea that entrepreneurial ideals and education do not strongly overlap. Then you show as an example guys who dropped out of good schools because it wasn't worth it for them anymore. so lol.

---

Um, i'm along with zdonk that you are really reading a ton into what I had written and no where did I say that my grandfather didn't have a degree, he had one in journalism from UofW, although not sure of if that story happened before or after his schooling. And for the entrepreneurial / education argument, i'm right there with you because just as a purely subjective view, I have to learn continually and in fact take courses to this day to keep up with what is needed to do what I do. So again, I really think you see my alternate take (which it was) as a personal attack, and it's not. I have worked for both types though and know as much about running shit as I do suffering under uneducated bosses.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 4Dragons

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShadyJ

Its the same in the sales industry they would rather hire a kid out of college with a liberal arts degree then someone with 15 years sales experience. A degree can help you get in the door at alot of jobs even when almost 100% of what you learned doesnt translate to that job. You should only go for something that specializes in something. If you go to be a nurse you will never not have a job. If you go for Psychology it still helps but most likely you wont be working in that field.

---

I see it more as a 'all in the same boat' and 'if i had to do it, you have to do it too' mentality. If your boss has a degree you better bet your ass you will NEED one based on the fact that he had to make that commitment and take on that debt as a path to his current success, and success creates morons in that people with money/ position always think the way they got there is the only way for you to get there. The obverse is true if your boss either doesn't have a degree or got one later in life in that they think anyone with a degree is a useful tool in the shed and a good worker, but probably nothing more than that. And yes, i'm speaking of liberal arts degrees, not engineers, Dr's, Phd's and the like.

---

Theres definitely some truth to that. To me personally Ill take the guy with experience anyday over the kid with a degree that has nothing to do with the field. Ironically I dropped out of college when I was working with guys who all had degrees, and I was making alot more money then them. I'm like what do I need a stupid degree for. I wish I would have stuck with it. It can only help you it cant hurt other then the student loans.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The_PHA

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by offthetop

I work for a big US company and you need a college degree to apply for jobs above the admin level, so in that regard, for sure they are relevant

---

This just tilts me. Most of these big US companies were built with guys without college degrees.

We can start with Bill Gates. I went to KFC last night for take out and I doubt the Colonel had a degree either.

---

http://i.imgur.com/MDsTpuV.jpg

Bill Gates is an exceptional person who was in the right place right time. He started writing computer programs at 14 and had and almost perfect SAT score. He was attending Harvard and spending most of his time in the computer lab instead of at class. He dropped out because he wanted to start a computer company.

If he had graduated from Harvard and got a job at Honeywell or IBM do any of you think Gates would not have been successful?

Gates didn't get bounced out of school be he was smoking too much weed.

I think Weiss is right that most attendance at most mid-level colleges just shows you can be responsible for 4 years in a way that is similar to a corporate job.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bukowski72

Bill Gates is an exceptional person who was in the right place right time. He started writing computer programs at 14 and had and almost perfect SAT score.

---

When Bill Gates was 16, he was hired by his high school to write software to schedule classes. He rigged it so that every class he was in would be 70% female.

I own a Tandy Model 102 "laptop". It runs on the last Microsoft software where Gates was the primary developer. What he managed to do with 24k of memory is astounding.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DirtyB

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bukowski72

Bill Gates is an exceptional person who was in the right place right time. He started writing computer programs at 14 and had and almost perfect SAT score.

---

When Bill Gates was 16, he was hired by his high school to write software to schedule classes. He rigged it so that every class he was in would be 70% female.

I own a Tandy Model 102 "laptop". It runs on the last Microsoft software where Gates was the primary developer. What he managed to do with 24k of memory is astounding.

---

Makes me sick to think I was programming by age 12 and now in high school they call learning how to use MS Office a 'computer class'.

The problem has more to do with the fact that most kids who go straight to college after high school have no fucking idea what they want to do with their life. So what do they do? They go to college and have to choose a degree to pursue. Since they have no fucking clue what they would like to do, the degree they choose ends up being worthless. Seriously, what percent of 18 year old kids know what they want to do for the rest of their life? Far less than 48%.

Just like most people, I went to college for two years straight out of high school. Those two years were just a huge waste of time and money because I didn't know what I wanted to do. At that point I joined The Army for six years, got some life experience and then went back to school knowing what I wanted to do. I got my degree and that degree was essential in getting me the job I have. I would bet that people like me who get life experience and then go to college use their degrees at a far higher rate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 4Dragons

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by donkdowndonedied

No, don't think thats it. I think the idea that some guy who got into harvard worked at your grandfather's mechanic is what made the bitter shine. Dream on though my friend.

The large companies do it as a cover your ass type thing. If you want to make it anywhere without a degree either work at a smaller company or do it yourself. It is all pretty much cover your ass syndrome, not so much 'do what i had to do'. Thats nice and simple, but fail. You bitter types always love to put forth this idea that entrepreneurial ideals and education do not strongly overlap. Then you show as an example guys who dropped out of good schools because it wasn't worth it for them anymore. so lol.

---

Um, i'm along with zdonk that you are really reading a ton into what I had written and no where did I say that my grandfather didn't have a degree, he had one in journalism from UofW, although not sure of if that story happened before or after his schooling. And for the entrepreneurial / education argument, i'm right there with you because just as a purely subjective view, I have to learn continually and in fact take courses to this day to keep up with what is needed to do what I do. So again, I really think you see my alternate take (which it was) as a personal attack, and it's not. I have worked for both types though and know as much about running shit as I do suffering under uneducated bosses.

---

Well it couldn't be a personal attack. I am making fun of your motives. It sure wasn't directed at me, nothing personal there. I just assumed you are bitter about your lack of degree and see things mainly from that perspective. Everything that is taught in school you can learn from a book. I've always believed that. I just am not quick to discount why companies require degrees. I am in a similar position but I have a degree. I don't value them much myself, but I accept it as part of the game. I have realized that if I want to be happy in life, I would be better off working at a smaller lean company where I have a chance to demonstrate my ability. Not held down by layers of management, having most credit for my work absorbed by these layers. These same types of companies are the same ones that wouldn't hire you due to lack of a degree.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nightmarefish

The problem has more to do with the fact that most kids who go straight to college after high school have no fucking idea what they want to do with their life. So what do they do? They go to college and have to choose a degree to pursue. Since they have no fucking clue what they would like to do, the degree they choose ends up being worthless. Seriously, what percent of 18 year old kids know what they want to do for the rest of their life? Far less than 48%.

Just like most people, I went to college for two years straight out of high school. Those two years were just a huge waste of time and money because I didn't know what I wanted to do. At that point I joined The Army for six years, got some life experience and then went back to school knowing what I wanted to do. I got my degree and that degree was essential in getting me the job I have. I would bet that people like me who get life experience and then go to college use their degrees at a far higher rate.

---

^^ Well said. This is what I did. 2 years or so out of HS then I recently went back. So now I have a hard science degree from a highly ranked program and thinking about what i want to do. The other thing is when you are 18-20, you are far more interested ni doing other things than studying for class. As you start to get older you actually appreciate the things you learn. When you are young, it was just something pushed upon you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by donkdowndonedied

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 4Dragons

Um, i'm along with zdonk that you are really reading a ton into what I had written and no where did I say that my grandfather didn't have a degree, he had one in journalism from UofW, although not sure of if that story happened before or after his schooling. And for the entrepreneurial / education argument, i'm right there with you because just as a purely subjective view, I have to learn continually and in fact take courses to this day to keep up with what is needed to do what I do. So again, I really think you see my alternate take (which it was) as a personal attack, and it's not. I have worked for both types though and know as much about running shit as I do suffering under uneducated bosses.

---

Well it couldn't be a personal attack. I am making fun of your motives. It sure wasn't directed at me, nothing personal there. I just assumed you are bitter about your lack of degree and see things mainly from that perspective. Everything that is taught in school you can learn from a book. I've always believed that. I just am not quick to discount why companies require degrees. I am in a similar position but I have a degree. I don't value them much myself, but I accept it as part of the game. I have realized that if I want to be happy in life, I would be better off working at a smaller lean company where I have a chance to demonstrate my ability. Not held down by layers of management, having most credit for my work absorbed by these layers. These same types of companies are the same ones that wouldn't hire you due to lack of a degree.

---

Never had that problem. Just make sure when you're applying for a job you don't proudly put down you are an OWS'er and you should be fine.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nightmarefish

Just like most people, I went to college for two years straight out of high school. Those two years were just a huge waste of time and money because I didn't know what I wanted to do. At that point I joined The Army for six years, got some life experience and then went back to school knowing what I wanted to do. I got my degree and that degree was essential in getting me the job I have. I would bet that people like me who get life experience and then go to college use their degrees at a far higher rate.

---

Isn't this a pretty common thing in Europe? After secondary school you travel abroad for a few years, see the world, then return home for university.

Seems like a good idea if its within your means.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SrslySirius

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nightmarefish

Just like most people, I went to college for two years straight out of high school. Those two years were just a huge waste of time and money because I didn't know what I wanted to do. At that point I joined The Army for six years, got some life experience and then went back to school knowing what I wanted to do. I got my degree and that degree was essential in getting me the job I have. I would bet that people like me who get life experience and then go to college use their degrees at a far higher rate.

---

Isn't this a pretty common thing in Europe? After secondary school you travel abroad for a few years, see the world, then return home for university.

Seems like a good idea if its within your means.

---

yes

half the people i worked with in haiti were euro's like this

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SrslySirius

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nightmarefish

Just like most people, I went to college for two years straight out of high school. Those two years were just a huge waste of time and money because I didn't know what I wanted to do. At that point I joined The Army for six years, got some life experience and then went back to school knowing what I wanted to do. I got my degree and that degree was essential in getting me the job I have. I would bet that people like me who get life experience and then go to college use their degrees at a far higher rate.

---

Isn't this a pretty common thing in Europe? After secondary school you travel abroad for a few years, see the world, then return home for university.

Seems like a good idea if its within your means.

---

Agreed, it would be utopian if possible.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SrslySirius

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nightmarefish

Just like most people, I went to college for two years straight out of high school. Those two years were just a huge waste of time and money because I didn't know what I wanted to do. At that point I joined The Army for six years, got some life experience and then went back to school knowing what I wanted to do. I got my degree and that degree was essential in getting me the job I have. I would bet that people like me who get life experience and then go to college use their degrees at a far higher rate.

---

Isn't this a pretty common thing in Europe? After secondary school you travel abroad for a few years, see the world, then return home for university.

Seems like a good idea if its within your means.

---

A chunk of euros will end up in compulsory military service depending on their country (which of course can lead to overseas deployment or training). They can opt out of the military aspect as long as they do something appropriately similar. I recall a pair of germans came to NZ to do conservation work as an accepted alternative.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zealanddonk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SrslySirius

Isn't this a pretty common thing in Europe? After secondary school you travel abroad for a few years, see the world, then return home for university.

Seems like a good idea if its within your means.

---

A chunk of euros will end up in compulsory military service depending on their country (which of course can lead to overseas deployment or training). They can opt out of the military aspect as long as they do something appropriately similar. I recall a pair of germans came to NZ to do conservation work as an accepted alternative.

---

lol, they were spies.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShadyJ

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 4Dragons

I see it more as a 'all in the same boat' and 'if i had to do it, you have to do it too' mentality. If your boss has a degree you better bet your ass you will NEED one based on the fact that he had to make that commitment and take on that debt as a path to his current success, and success creates morons in that people with money/ position always think the way they got there is the only way for you to get there. The obverse is true if your boss either doesn't have a degree or got one later in life in that they think anyone with a degree is a useful tool in the shed and a good worker, but probably nothing more than that. And yes, i'm speaking of liberal arts degrees, not engineers, Dr's, Phd's and the like.

---

Theres definitely some truth to that. To me personally Ill take the guy with experience anyday over the kid with a degree that has nothing to do with the field. Ironically I dropped out of college when I was working with guys who all had degrees, and I was making alot more money then them. I'm like what do I need a stupid degree for. I wish I would have stuck with it. It can only help you it cant hurt other then the student loans.

---

Got it. I think elementary school is more important

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nightmarefish

The problem has more to do with the fact that most kids who go straight to college after high school have no fucking idea what they want to do with their life. So what do they do? They go to college and have to choose a degree to pursue. Since they have no fucking clue what they would like to do, the degree they choose ends up being worthless. Seriously, what percent of 18 year old kids know what they want to do for the rest of their life? Far less than 48%.

Just like most people, I went to college for two years straight out of high school. Those two years were just a huge waste of time and money because I didn't know what I wanted to do. At that point I joined The Army for six years, got some life experience and then went back to school knowing what I wanted to do. I got my degree and that degree was essential in getting me the job I have. I would bet that people like me who get life experience and then go to college use their degrees at a far higher rate.

---

This.

I think for whatever reason, myself included, you simply go to college at age 18 because that is what "successful" people do. Then you run up a bunch of debt and walk out with a degree not applicable to anything worthwhile to pay down what you owe.

As someone said earlier, European countries almost mandate people to do some type of service right out of highschool. Now, I am no fan whatsoever of Europe, but I really don't see the harm in some type of mandated military service, or something of the equivalent.

Think about how much better Canada would be if thousands of high school graduates pilgrimaged there to help it improve it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The_PHA

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nightmarefish

The problem has more to do with the fact that most kids who go straight to college after high school have no fucking idea what they want to do with their life. So what do they do? They go to college and have to choose a degree to pursue. Since they have no fucking clue what they would like to do, the degree they choose ends up being worthless. Seriously, what percent of 18 year old kids know what they want to do for the rest of their life? Far less than 48%.

Just like most people, I went to college for two years straight out of high school. Those two years were just a huge waste of time and money because I didn't know what I wanted to do. At that point I joined The Army for six years, got some life experience and then went back to school knowing what I wanted to do. I got my degree and that degree was essential in getting me the job I have. I would bet that people like me who get life experience and then go to college use their degrees at a far higher rate.

---

This.

I think for whatever reason, myself included, you simply go to college at age 18 because that is what "successful" people do. Then you run up a bunch of debt and walk out with a degree not applicable to anything worthwhile to pay down what you owe.

As someone said earlier, European countries almost mandate people to do some type of service right out of highschool. Now, I am no fan whatsoever of Europe, but I really don't see the harm in some type of mandated military service, or something of the equivalent.

Think about how much better Canada would be if thousands of high school graduates pilgrimaged there to help it improve it.

---

Canada has it's shit together regarding school at any age......you won't see countless high school or college grads who don't know the difference between then and than like you do here.

It's the dumbest mistake possible yet it's repeated over and over again. The U.S. systems is sports based and you reap what you sow. Dumb jocks.

If it wasn't for sheer numbers you guys would be third world

I think Obama is trying to make student loans more affordable

Hai Obama!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 4Dragons

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zealanddonk

A chunk of euros will end up in compulsory military service depending on their country (which of course can lead to overseas deployment or training). They can opt out of the military aspect as long as they do something appropriately similar. I recall a pair of germans came to NZ to do conservation work as an accepted alternative.

---

lol, they were spies.

---

Nah it was the french who sunk the rainbow warrior, and in deference to our jewish overlord running the site I'll avoid mentioning the israeli spies found here with false passports.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by limitles

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The_PHA

This.

I think for whatever reason, myself included, you simply go to college at age 18 because that is what "successful" people do. Then you run up a bunch of debt and walk out with a degree not applicable to anything worthwhile to pay down what you owe.

As someone said earlier, European countries almost mandate people to do some type of service right out of highschool. Now, I am no fan whatsoever of Europe, but I really don't see the harm in some type of mandated military service, or something of the equivalent.

Think about how much better Canada would be if thousands of high school graduates pilgrimaged there to help it improve it.

---

Canada has it's shit together regarding school at any age......you won't see countless high school or college grads who don't know the difference between then and than like you do here.

It's the dumbest mistake possible yet it's repeated over and over again. The U.S. systems is sports based and you reap what you sow. Dumb jocks.

If it wasn't for sheer numbers you guys would be third world

---

:scalir