IS SEALS WITH CLUBS DONKDOWN??? (Update: Micon charged with a felony in Nevada)

The one thing everyone is forgetting is that it "allegedly" was the equivalent of the State Police that came to the house, not the feds and certainly not the IRS. That lends me to believe this (if it did happen) was more a fishing expedition than them already having stuff on him. It also makes me think the "threat level" is not that high.....right now. I mean what are we talking about running an illegal gambling operation? Big fucking deal, that is about as low as it gets on the "major crimes" totem pole Nevada or not.

You would think if they had evidence or even suspected much more the Feds would have come in, not the gaming board. That is at the bottom of the law enforcement food chain pretty much. The more I think about it the "12 guys kicked in my door pointing guns" is probably complete bullshit. But Micon is a giant pussy and so running was the obvious choice, I mean kid has millions he doesn't need to live in US anymore.

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Originally Posted by NaturalBornHustler

The one thing everyone is forgetting is that it "allegedly" was the equivalent of the State Police that came to the house, not the feds and certainly not the IRS. That lends me to believe this (if it did happen) was more a fishing expedition than them already having stuff on him. It also makes me think the "threat level" is not that high.....right now. I mean what are we talking about running an illegal gambling operation? Big fucking deal, that is about as low as it gets on the "major crimes" totem pole Nevada or not.

You would think if they had evidence or even suspected much more the Feds would have come in, not the gaming board. That is at the bottom of the law enforcement food chain pretty much. The more I think about it the "12 guys kicked in my door pointing guns" is probably complete bullshit. But Micon is a giant pussy and so running was the obvious choice, I mean kid has millions he doesn't need to live in US anymore.

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I think he's telling the truth about the multiple guys with guns (maybe it was 8 and not 12, but who cares).

Nevada Gaming doing the bust actually makes the most sense. They had the motivation to take quicker action than the other law enforcement bodies.

The DOJ tends to only go after the big fish from which they can extract big money, and that's not Seals.

Local authorities probably don't have the resources for such an investigation, and they might not even understand the whole thing.

Nevada Gaming had the expertise, the resources, and the motivation, especially with the recent licensing of legal online poker in the state.

They were definitely the biggest threat by a wide margin.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

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Originally Posted by FRANKRIZZO

Oh no doubt. They definitely put in a ton of work and put in a lot of functionality and upgrade on Mavens. It was still upgraded from mavens the lag and some of the bugs associated with Mavens never went away.

The new custom built software they were working on was in early beta testing and believed to have been bought from another bitcoin site that went under.

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I don't have any confirmation of this, but I believe the owner of the Mavens software either owned a % of Seals, or was being paid well.

He was always doing custom work for them, and they were getting all of the upgrades first.

There's no way they had such a relationship if Seals simply purchased his software for the one-time flat price of $200 or whatever.

As was already pointed out here, the fact that the Mavens software was specifically said to be left behind for Seals 2.0 shows that the developer of Mavens wanted out like everyone else, and he really wouldn't have a right to demand that if he just sold them an off-the-shelf package for a 1-time payment.

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The owner of Mavens software was and is Kenneth Briggs. He is still selling his software to anyone who wants it. I don't believe he had any stake or investment of seals. The software was upgraded by dedicated programmers like HDEV who could have had ownership stake. Sorry if I miss interpreted owner of mavens post. Who ever did upgrades of the mavens software did a fantastic job , I am not trying to take anything away from his or teams efforts. Mavens had a lot of bugs and flaws that were not able to be fixed no matter how much it was upgraded like lag.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

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Originally Posted by gauchojake

It just blows my mind that playing poker at Hawaiian Gardens is legal and SWC is not.

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Was there a nice chunk of money to be made by running a bitcoin poker site? Definitely. And those involved with Seals reaped the benefits for well over 3 years. But they also took the risk in running a unregulated, real money gambling site serving US customers, so that's why they had the opportunity to go virtually unopposed competition-wise.

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well said

I find it hypocritical of Micon to bitch police state when then police&laws created opportunity for him to make easy money by operating SWC and for a time, selling marijuana...

bottom line, Micon is too lazy, undisciplined to make an honest living

I agree with the fishing expedition part, though.

My guess is the raid was to determine whether or not he owned Seals, as well as gather hard evidence regarding the financial (and bitcoin) transactions involved. And probably to identify other parties involved, who haven't been at all public with their identity.

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Originally Posted by FRANKRIZZO

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

I don't have any confirmation of this, but I believe the owner of the Mavens software either owned a % of Seals, or was being paid well.

He was always doing custom work for them, and they were getting all of the upgrades first.

There's no way they had such a relationship if Seals simply purchased his software for the one-time flat price of $200 or whatever.

As was already pointed out here, the fact that the Mavens software was specifically said to be left behind for Seals 2.0 shows that the developer of Mavens wanted out like everyone else, and he really wouldn't have a right to demand that if he just sold them an off-the-shelf package for a 1-time payment.

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The owner of Mavens software was and is Kenneth Briggs. He is still selling his software to anyone who wants it. I don't believe he had any stake or investment of seals. The software was upgraded by dedicated programmers like HDEV who could have had ownership stake. Sorry if I miss interpreted owner of mavens post. Who ever did upgrades of the mavens software did a fantastic job , I am not trying to take anything away from his or teams efforts. Mavens had a lot of bugs and flaws that were not able to be fixed no matter how much it was upgraded like lag.

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But how did hdev get the source code for Mavens software in order to do these modifications?

We certainly don't have that for the NoFraud Online Poker room. We get our upgrades when they are released to the general public.

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Originally Posted by GrenadaRoger

well said

I find it hypocritical of Micon to bitch police state when then laws created opportunity for him to make easy money by operating SWC and for a time, selling marijuana...

bottom line, Micon is too lazy, undisciplined to make an honest living

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This doesn't sit right with me. The police state didn't make laws that create opportunity, our freedom from laws is what creates opportunity. Get that really really clear in your head. Government does not create opportunity, unless it is taking money from one place and giving it to others because they feel like it. Usually their friends. That pay them off. And then run a SWAT team to the people's house who try to do the exact same thing, but who have not bought a politician.

Clear?

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

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Originally Posted by FRANKRIZZO

The owner of Mavens software was and is Kenneth Briggs. He is still selling his software to anyone who wants it. I don't believe he had any stake or investment of seals. The software was upgraded by dedicated programmers like HDEV who could have had ownership stake. Sorry if I miss interpreted owner of mavens post. Who ever did upgrades of the mavens software did a fantastic job , I am not trying to take anything away from his or teams efforts. Mavens had a lot of bugs and flaws that were not able to be fixed no matter how much it was upgraded like lag.

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But how did hdev get the source code for Mavens software in order to do these modifications?

We certainly don't have that for the NoFraud Online Poker room. We get our upgrades when they are released to the general public.

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I would think would be pretty easy for a programmer to get into the software and figure out the code and how to manipulate it. I seriously doubt Briggs has that ability. If he did wouldn't he have offered the higher version? He is still selling the mavens software I believe. Seals made it downloadable as well as being able to re size tables and a ton of other feature not available even on the top Mavens software version. Pretty sure current mavens being sold is all browser based.

I have interacted with hdev and briggs I am pretty sure hdev was in charge of the programming. Hdev was a pleasure to deal with Briggs left a lot to be desired on the communication front.

This thread blew up!!

Hopefully Micon finds a way to come back to the states

Missing the WSOP should be illegal

Bitcoin gambling looks like it's here to stay

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Originally Posted by FRANKRIZZO

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

But how did hdev get the source code for Mavens software in order to do these modifications?

We certainly don't have that for the NoFraud Online Poker room. We get our upgrades when they are released to the general public.

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I would think would be pretty easy for a programmer to get into the software and figure out the code and how to manipulate it. I seriously doubt Briggs has that ability. If he did wouldn't he have offered the higher version? He is still selling the mavens software I believe. Seals made it downloadable as well as being able to re size tables and a ton of other feature not available even on the top Mavens software version. Pretty sure current mavens being sold is all browser based.

I have interacted with hdev and briggs I am pretty sure hdev was in charge of the programming. Hdev was a pleasure to deal with Briggs left a lot to be desired on the communication front.

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I think we're saying much of the same thing.

This hdev guy, who may or may not be the same person as Freemoney, likely did the modifications, but Briggs gave him the source code to do it.

Basically they built a custom site on the Mavens platform, and I'm guessing Briggs licensed it out to them in exchange for a percentage ownership (or at the very least, a nice monthly payment).

I used to work for a company which did something similar. Basically we needed a low-level code debugger to go with the product we were building, and we just didn't have the manpower to build it on our own, so we got the plugin to an existing one (not even their source) and they got a healthy percentage of every sale. Eventually it cost the company so much money that they did commit the resources to build their own (and make it better).

I imagine Seals was in the process of doing the same thing with their 2.0 software, even if it did involve buying some existing package outright and building from there.

Even if we take the high-end of the SwC traffic/revenue estimates, I guess I'm wondering why Nevada Gaming gave a shit? Sure, SwC was likely generating some net income, by all accounts Micon didn't have a moving sidewalk at his house or anything like that.

Maybe this is like invading a 'home game' or nipping this in the bud so other sites don't proliferate as well. Personally I believe there's more to this story than some degens running a fledgling bitcoin poker site.

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Originally Posted by 4Dragons

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Originally Posted by GrenadaRoger

well said

I find it hypocritical of Micon to bitch police state when then laws created opportunity for him to make easy money by operating SWC and for a time, selling marijuana...

bottom line, Micon is too lazy, undisciplined to make an honest living

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This doesn't sit right with me. The police state didn't make laws that create opportunity, our freedom from laws is what creates opportunity. Get that really really clear in your head. Government does not create opportunity, unless it is taking money from one place and giving it to others because they feel like it. Usually their friends. That pay them off. And then run a SWAT team to the people's house who try to do the exact same thing, but who have not bought a politician.

Clear?

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I think need to explain myself better for you benefit...the opportunity created was for a lazy, undisciplined operator to succeed...could SWC have succeeded if PokerStars was allowed to compete? no... and wouldn't the American tobacco companies dominate marijuana production and distribution if they were allowed to compete...yes

and re: your freedom from laws comment--read Druffs post, which says regulation is desired by society (hence laws)--it is a choice that has been made for reasons he gave: I believe you advocate civil disobedience against a law you don't agree with, well that is your choice and go ahead...I wouldn't want you stopped at that until you become a danger to others

I believe I am clear enough on your thinking, thank you. I hope you better understand my point

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

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Originally Posted by FRANKRIZZO

The owner of Mavens software was and is Kenneth Briggs. He is still selling his software to anyone who wants it. I don't believe he had any stake or investment of seals. The software was upgraded by dedicated programmers like HDEV who could have had ownership stake. Sorry if I miss interpreted owner of mavens post. Who ever did upgrades of the mavens software did a fantastic job , I am not trying to take anything away from his or teams efforts. Mavens had a lot of bugs and flaws that were not able to be fixed no matter how much it was upgraded like lag.

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But how did hdev get the source code for Mavens software in order to do these modifications?

We certainly don't have that for the NoFraud Online Poker room. We get our upgrades when they are released to the general public.

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http://briggsoft.com/pmfaq.htm#q9

"The server is written in Delphi. The player client is written in HTML5 and Javascript. The version 4 source code is not published. Source code licenses for version 3 (written in Delphi/OpenLaszlo) start at $10,000 USD, depending on the terms."

Kent confirmed that seals had a source code license on his forums once.

edit: which is also why they were still using version 3 instead of version 4 like NoFraud and pokershibes

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Originally Posted by GrenadaRoger

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Originally Posted by 4Dragons

This doesn't sit right with me. The police state didn't make laws that create opportunity, our freedom from laws is what creates opportunity. Get that really really clear in your head. Government does not create opportunity, unless it is taking money from one place and giving it to others because they feel like it. Usually their friends. That pay them off. And then run a SWAT team to the people's house who try to do the exact same thing, but who have not bought a politician.

Clear?

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I think need to explain myself better for you benefit...the opportunity created was for a lazy, undisciplined operator to succeed...could SWC have succeeded if PokerStars was allowed to compete? no... and wouldn't the American tobacco companies dominate marijuana production and distribution if they were allowed to compete...yes

and re: your freedom from laws comment--read Druffs post, which says regulation is desired by society (hence laws)--it is a choice that has been made for reasons he gave: I believe you advocate civil disobedience against a law you don't agree with, well that is your choice and go ahead...I wouldn't want you stopped at that until you become a danger to others

I believe I am clear enough on your thinking, thank you, I hope you better understand my point

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Nobody said anything about civil disobedience or me going along with what Micon was doing. I fall into the category of being able to have put up a bitcoin poker site, but the risk was just insane... in this police state. That is controlled by politicians that only care about themselves. That protect the people that feed them graft and jail or shoot everyone else.

You see the comment has nothing to do with poker or bitcoin or Micon. It's the statement that somehow law and regulation = opportunity. That's fucked up and seriously backwards. Dare I say.. un-American.

Another thing, when the police break down your door with a search warrant, they don't just "kick your door in and steal all your stuff without charges"..or paperwork. Lots of it. The search warrant alone is a 10 page or more document, and they also leave you paperwork with every single thing they took accounted for and described in writing. Even down to the most random little thing. They hand all said documents to you when they are finished (usually you carry it in between your cuffed hands going into jail".

I will be eager to see if anything like that exists, and if it does why wasn't mr anti government waving it around to show what the corrupt police "stole" from him in the video. They don't just come in and take shit and toll out and say thanks. Not how it works. Also what about pictures? Surely there should be some pics of a trashed house, door kicked in off the frame and the chaos the police state left Micon with.

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Originally Posted by NorCal Sports

Even if we take the high-end of the SwC traffic/revenue estimates, I guess I'm wondering why Nevada Gaming gave a shit? Sure, SwC was likely generating some net income, by all accounts Micon didn't have a moving sidewalk at his house or anything like that.

Maybe this is like invading a 'home game' or nipping this in the bud so other sites don't proliferate as well. Personally I believe there's more to this story than some degens running a fledgling bitcoin poker site.

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Nevada gaming always gives a shit.

They have always taken unlicensed gambling in the state very seriously.

Truthfully Seals had approximately the same traffic as WSOP Nevada (maybe slightly less, but close), and while much of that traffic wasn't from the state of Nevada, they definitely couldn't dismiss Seals as a small fish that was dwarfed by the legal sites.

It is possible that Gaming would have had less of an interest if there wasn't regulated online poker in Nevada. I wouldn't even be surprised if Caesars was the one reporting them to Gaming.

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Originally Posted by NaturalBornHustler

Another thing, when the police break down your door with a search warrant, they don't just "kick your door in and steal all your stuff without charges"..or paperwork. Lots of it. The search warrant alone is a 10 page or more document, and they also leave you paperwork with every single thing they took accounted for and described in writing. Even down to the most random little thing. They hand all said documents to you when they are finished (usually you carry it in between your cuffed hands going into jail".

I will be eager to see if anything like that exists, and if it does why wasn't mr anti government waving it around to show what the corrupt police "stole" from him in the video. They don't just come in and take shit and toll out and say thanks. Not how it works.

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The difference between someone dressed in all black and a hoodie and someone dressed in blue with a badge is all I see, other than a receipt for shit you will never see again.

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Originally Posted by neorab

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

But how did hdev get the source code for Mavens software in order to do these modifications?

We certainly don't have that for the NoFraud Online Poker room. We get our upgrades when they are released to the general public.

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http://briggsoft.com/pmfaq.htm#q9

"The server is written in Delphi. The player client is written in HTML5 and Javascript. The version 4 source code is not published. Source code licenses for version 3 (written in Delphi/OpenLaszlo) start at $10,000 USD, depending on the terms."

Kent confirmed that seals had a source code license on his forums once.

edit: which is also why they were still using version 3 instead of version 4 like NoFraud and pokershibes

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Thanks. Great 2nd post.

someone alerted NGC about swc

micon was snitched on

that person was daniel negreanu

book it

Also keep in mind that all of the legalized online poker operators (in all 3 states) are pissed off and frustrated that they are only doing a fraction of the business they expected.

And right or wrong, they are resting a lot of that blame on the existing illegal online poker sites, claiming that they are sucking away potential business.

I don't know how valid that complaint is anymore, given that the bigger US-facing networks are no longer serving customers from those states, but they've been long concerned about unlicensed competition, and honestly I don't blame them.

I can't imagine Caesars was too happy about seeing an unlicensed online poker site (even if for bitcoin) being heavily promoted by someone right there in Las Vegas.

This, of course, is all of a guess. Perhaps Caesars had nothing to do with this bust, but for sure they were aware of Seals' existence.