Vegas is Struggling in 2025

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

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Originally Posted by desertrunner

Thats fair.

Per a Google, it only happened once over 40 years ago in 1984, probably before any of us were gambling there. Looking at modern times, it hasnt happened since and I dont see it as an issue now. Props to them in 84, they made history and the modern day casino management knows better now keeping the bargaining table fair and equal.

I actually like that the union is that big and they have so much control. Why, keep the entire industry fair, equal and allows fair bargaining at the negotiating table. Why cant the scales of justice be fair in the service industry? No one wants to work for a draconian nazi-like organization.

I also see it this way- You like to and have to sometimes call on customer service to complain about hotel service, airline, bills, etc. Can you imagine the table between you and the company not being fair? What if they just ignored and muzzled you because they could- you'd be pissed. So I see you and the union members in the same boat- you want to be heard and given a fair voice and chance at what you want.

Also, I now own stock in a major property and casino line (RRR). As a very small "owner", I rather the labor be union and organized so the operation doesnt keep having a large and constant turnover driving down productivity 25% with turnover. Like I said in Post #179, the Costco employee union model is awesome and works very well.

Also, we should be very grateful for the union mentality. Because of it, in the 1700s, the found colonist stood up and fought against the draconian UK leadership. Had they just rolled over and let management rule and control the new territory, the USA wouldnt exist today.

Again, the recent traffic stunt at LAS airport was dumb and shouldnt have happened as it made them and unions look lame. The best tactic would have been to educate the public with billboards and newspaper ads.

All I ask is that you be more accurate on the details posted here and not sensationalize.

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You seem not to understand that holding the industry hostage with the THREAT of striking is almost as bad as actually striking.

This tilts the power dynamic too strongly to labor, which is never what labor unions were intended to be.

Picture this:

You're in middle school, and a really big kid says, "Give me your lunch money, or I'll beat you up!" You tell the kid you have to eat, so he demands half your lunch money and says that's the minimum he'll take. Knowing he can and will beat you up, you give him half, and just eat a snack for lunch, as you can no longer afford a full lunch.

You get to the end of the school year and finally tell one of your friends what has been going on. The friend asks, "What's the problem? Has he ever beaten you up? Has he ever beaten anyone up? If not, he's not at fault. Until he throws a punch, I don't see a problem with his actions."

Would this make any sense?

Of course not. You're giving the guy your lunch money in order to prevent worse consequences for not doing so.



That's what the Culinary Union is doing here. When their contract expires, they threaten to "beat up" the hospitality industry on the strip unless they get their way. The businesses panic and say, "We don't want to get beaten up, but we can't afford to give you what you're asking", and the bully says back, "Give us half of what we're asking", and a new contract is signed.

The union has all of the leverage, and they basically squeeze the maximum out they can each time.

This, of course, is one of the factors keeping the prices high. It's not the only factor, but it's a factor.

Then there's all the other problems which come with over-powerful unions, such as the inability to fire bad employees with seniority, and a general decline in service which occurs as a result.

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Sounds like good negotiating to me.

Also the bully analogy is completely wrong. Unions formed because there is a huge power imbalance between employers and workers which has been well exploited over the course of human history. It's quite clear who the bully is....

That being said striking is always a risk towards workers as well and strike pay means workers losing money while on strike.

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Originally Posted by BetCheckBet

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

You seem not to understand that holding the industry hostage with the THREAT of striking is almost as bad as actually striking.

This tilts the power dynamic too strongly to labor, which is never what labor unions were intended to be.

Picture this:

You're in middle school, and a really big kid says, "Give me your lunch money, or I'll beat you up!" You tell the kid you have to eat, so he demands half your lunch money and says that's the minimum he'll take. Knowing he can and will beat you up, you give him half, and just eat a snack for lunch, as you can no longer afford a full lunch.

You get to the end of the school year and finally tell one of your friends what has been going on. The friend asks, "What's the problem? Has he ever beaten you up? Has he ever beaten anyone up? If not, he's not at fault. Until he throws a punch, I don't see a problem with his actions."

Would this make any sense?

Of course not. You're giving the guy your lunch money in order to prevent worse consequences for not doing so.



That's what the Culinary Union is doing here. When their contract expires, they threaten to "beat up" the hospitality industry on the strip unless they get their way. The businesses panic and say, "We don't want to get beaten up, but we can't afford to give you what you're asking", and the bully says back, "Give us half of what we're asking", and a new contract is signed.

The union has all of the leverage, and they basically squeeze the maximum out they can each time.

This, of course, is one of the factors keeping the prices high. It's not the only factor, but it's a factor.

Then there's all the other problems which come with over-powerful unions, such as the inability to fire bad employees with seniority, and a general decline in service which occurs as a result.

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Sounds like good negotiating to me.

Also the bully analogy is completely wrong. Unions formed because there is a huge power imbalance between employers and workers which has been well exploited over the course of human history. It's quite clear who the bully is....

That being said striking is always a risk towards workers as well and strike pay means workers losing money while on strike.

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Sometimes the little kid grows up and becomes the bully himself.

That's what many unions have done.

I've always said that I would have supported labor unions had I lived in the early 1990s. Laborers faced crappy pay, long hours, dangerous working conditions, and zero job security. If any complained, they were either fired or told "tough luck, leave if you don't like it".

The concept of unions made sense -- collectively get together and demand fair treatment, or everyone will stop working.

Unfortunately, in many industries the unions became too powerful and too demanding, using the same tactics to demand to be over paid, over-benefitted, and worst of all, over-protected from being fired.

Companies are not an endless well from which to draw money. Workers should be paid and treated fairly, but there's a point where they are getting too much for what they bring to the table, and there's also a thin line between fair job security and over-protection from wrongdoing on the job.

Huge unions are a problem because they hold almost all the power. So while they can't demand each worker get paid $250k/year (because the company can respond that they'll go under if they paid it, which would be credible), they can squeeze every possible dime out of the employer which can still allow the business to continue to be viable, regardless of whether or not the employees are really worth that.

BTW, I did work at a supermarket as a teenager where there was no union. I got to experience some of the plight of the low paid, bottom-end worker. I was wrongly accused of something and written up for it, despite the evidence being on my side. I was written up twice more and ultimately fired for taking my state-mandated breaks when my supervisor told me they were "too busy" to allow those breaks, and I took them anyway. (I should have sued them over this, now that I think about it.) My pay was minimum wage. So yeah, I get it... non-union companies do abuse their employees and sometimes even break the law.

But unions abuse the other direction. It's a classic case of a good idea getting perverted over the years to end up an abuse of privileges/power.

Druff, I say this respectfully and not to attack you, but you have an ignorant lay person approach to unions in general. I think either someone got to you and dumped alot of false info on you or you been to a conservative website, etc. I've been on other forums where crazed neo-cons melt down if you mention a union there.

Granted, my union experience is only in 2-3 sectors and some of the unions out there give the whole org a bad rap, but the concept is the same.

What worries me is that you have this warped idea that the Vegas Culinary Local just walks into a meeting, makes XYZ demands, hears "No", orders a strike and then shuts down the strip- its just that easy- wrong. You also dont know some of the bargainin tactics like the using the CPI (we did) and other tools.

You also need to know that union bargain contracts can take months to years to bargain. And if it doesnt get to a certain point, an "impasse" is established and then it goes to a mediator. And if that doesnt work, the union members must vote and approve a strike first. There are so many complex and detailed steps and the state of Nevada (NRS) has rules that must be followed too.

You broad-paint unions with an ignorant brush and really have little knowledge, it worries me because I know you never listen to anyone else and is always right in your world and the rest of us are dumb. YES, there was a strip strike in 1984, but it hasnt happened since and YES, the recent airport traffic block looked lame and YES it makes all of us other union people look bad, but honestly, you could use an education on unions from someone else other than the conservative playbook. I am just saying your opinion and generic information is way off target and its sad to me you run with this false flag on the topic.

Anyways, I hope/wish you would take a pause and learn more about the unions and how they work before you keep posting false information about them using the "because I say so" platform. Youre just wrong on a lot of points and I wish you would go back to my Post #179 on the topic and you never read it.

Yes, I skipped some steps in the union negotiating process, but that's because they're not important here.

The union's goal is to get the most out of the company for the employees. They have experts in their ranks who are skilled at doing so. The more powerful the union, the more they can get. They don't ever stop and say, "Okay, this is fair. We could get more, but it wouldn't be right to demand such a thing, so we will stop here."

Instead, they will keep threatening work stoppages until they can ascertain the company's breaking point.

In other industries, this doesn't work as well, for a variety of reasons. In some cases, a short shutdown for a strike won't be catastrophic (as it would in Vegas). In some cases, the union is small enough to where enough scabs can be found to fill in during the strike, and in fact the union has to worry about the scabs eventually replacing them.

In Vegas, none of those concerns occur on the union's side. They know there will never be enough scabs to replace the striking workers, and they know the hotels cannot afford to shut down for even one day, without creating a tremendous disruption.

You can keep saying that I don't understand, but I do. I've watched it occur. The Culinary Union should not be making new demands every few years. It's ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Yes, I skipped some steps in the union negotiating process, but that's because they're not important here.

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It actually is important as you're posting inaccurate information here.

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The union's goal is to get the most out of the company for the employees. They have experts in their ranks who are skilled at doing so. The more powerful the union, the more they can get. They don't ever stop and say, "Okay, this is fair. We could get more, but it wouldn't be right to demand such a thing, so we will stop here."

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Again, youre posting hearsay, rumor and assumptions as you've never been in a union or in negotiations before. Who exactly have you seen do this or did you see it in a movie? Again, youre painting all unions with a broad brush here. And YES, I have been in a union before where we did stop at a point and say- "This is fair" and we actually used the local CPI as the foundation. Again, youre firing off wild assumptions here like if I were to wildly and randomly post how I disagree with the inter workings of the WSOP and yet never been inside or worked for the WSOP.

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Instead, they will keep threatening work stoppages until they can ascertain the company's breaking point.

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Who has done this? When and what local and when? I think you actually got this from the movies? This is so broad and generic and not realistic.

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In other industries, this doesn't work as well, for a variety of reasons. In some cases, a short shutdown for a strike won't be catastrophic (as it would in Vegas). In some cases, the union is small enough to where enough scabs can be found to fill in during the strike, and in fact the union has to worry about the scabs eventually replacing them.

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Could be possible, no way to respond to this "what if situation". Any actual examples? History?

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In Vegas, none of those concerns occur on the union's side. They know there will never be enough scabs to replace the striking workers, and they know the hotels cannot afford to shut down for even one day, without creating a tremendous disruption.

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Again, there are many steps until a strike is called and approved. And the current situation in Vegas right now, might not be many scans around to work as housing is too high, but rent is coming down. There are so many variables on this statement, its hard to give an exact answer.

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You can keep saying that I don't understand, but I do. I've watched it occur. The Culinary Union should not be making new demands every few years. It's ridiculous.

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You actually dont know, sorry. Can you cite or post any of these new demands or are you just assuming it raises and working conditions? Again, you keep speaking in generic layperson neo-con language, but no specifics or exact examples. All of your posts summarize the same- "Unions are bad, because I say so and I am always right."

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

You seem not to understand that holding the industry hostage with the THREAT of striking is almost as bad as actually striking.

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Again, falsely sensationalizing with no real data or proof.

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This tilts the power dynamic too strongly to labor, which is never what labor unions were intended to be.

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False. Again, I think youve seen this in a movie or had someone randomly tell you this.

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Picture this:

You're in middle school, and a really big kid says, "Give me your lunch money, or I'll beat you up!" You tell the kid you have to eat, so he demands half your lunch money and says that's the minimum he'll take. Knowing he can and will beat you up, you give him half, and just eat a snack for lunch, as you can no longer afford a full lunch.

You get to the end of the school year and finally tell one of your friends what has been going on. The friend asks, "What's the problem? Has he ever beaten you up? Has he ever beaten anyone up? If not, he's not at fault. Until he throws a punch, I don't see a problem with his actions."

Would this make any sense?

Of course not. You're giving the guy your lunch money in order to prevent worse consequences for not doing so.

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I didnt real this, I'm pretty intelligent and dont let people dumb-down topics to me, especially when I know more than them on the subject.

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That's what the Culinary Union is doing here. When their contract expires, they threaten to "beat up" the hospitality industry on the strip unless they get their way. The businesses panic and say, "We don't want to get beaten up, but we can't afford to give you what you're asking", and the bully says back, "Give us half of what we're asking", and a new contract is signed.

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Again, there are legal steps to be taken and this is sensationalizing again. Druff, you watched too many mafia movies.

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The union has all of the leverage, and they basically squeeze the maximum out they can each time.

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No they dont. This is just basic neo-con play book chatter.

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This, of course, is one of the factors keeping the prices high. It's not the only factor, but it's a factor.

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Now were back on topic and we all know the prices are/were high in Vegas because of greedy management (they admit it), NOT because of the unions. The greedy corporations as now laying off union workers as the corporations continue to over-charge and kill their own industry. Nothing to do with Trump or the unions.

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Then there's all the other problems which come with over-powerful unions, such as the inability to fire bad employees with seniority, and a general decline in service which occurs as a result.

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I cant respond to this as its another super generic and broad statement. All unions and their rules are different. This might apply, I dont know.



* posted from the DR dupe account.

I'm not responding to all that nonsense.

Here is a good summary by Grok:

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The Las Vegas Culinary Union Local 226 (often in coordination with Bartenders Union Local 165) has a long history of using strike authorizations and public announcements of potential work stoppages as leverage in contract negotiations. These threats typically involve large-scale votes to authorize strikes, followed by deadlines or escalating actions like pickets, but they often resolve through agreements without full citywide shutdowns.

These threats have been effective in securing billions in raises, benefits, and job protections, often without full stoppages due to the economic leverage over Las Vegas's tourism-dependent economy. The union's strategy includes public alerts for travelers and solidarity from other labor groups.

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You can talk in a million circles to avoid confronting this fact, or you can say I'm arguing in "because I say so" mode, but the above is the truth.

Guess where the "billions in raises and benefits" comes from? Not from the Tooth Fairy or Santa. It comes from the companies, who then have to raise prices in order to pay for all of it.

Add that on top of their normal greed/gouging, and you see why prices are so high.

From a post I made last month on VCT regarding the issue of what Vegas can do to improve things.... (don't worry, desertrunner, there's no union talk):

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The solution is staring Vegas in the face, and they're not interested in trying it.

Keep hotel prices the same. Those are fine.

Drop resort fees. Just charge one set price. Even if you end up charging the same overall, people will appreciate it.

Remove the super expensive shit from rooms such as the $26 water bottles. Either make the prices reasonable, or remove them entirely.

Bring back room service. People love it in Vegas, and it's been eliminated in most places. These casinos don't understand that room service doesn't need to be about making money. It's about the whole Vegas experience. Couples in Vegas used to love to spend the evening at a nice dinner, gambling, maybe going to a show, going back to the room to fuck, and ordering room service while they relax. Now some casinos have all food service completely shut down in the late night hours, and room service is gone (or replaced by something awful like UberEats). It's a disgrace.

Make the games more short-term beatable again. Not for APs (though we'd all love that here), but for the average Joe who runs above expectation. Make it so people have enough winning trips to where they can forget about the losing ones, and delude themselves into thinking they're "about even".

Make food prices, in general, reasonable. You don't need to bring back the $6.99 steak dinners, but bring the prices down to where they feel like a good value. Allow people to buy snacks and coffee at normal prices, not horrible marked up prices.

Give hosts power again. Use computers for guidance to hosts, but don't neuter hosts to where they almost completely lack power.

Make the entertainment prices reasonable.

Bring back themes. Everything has become way too generic. Stop worrying about being tacky. Most people like the tackiness of Vegas. Those that don't can stay at places like the Wynn.

Completely eliminate all hidden fees.

Stop charging for parking.



Do all of the above, and the casinos aimed at lower-middle and middle-class clientele will rebound.

Book it.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Here is a good summary by Grok:

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Respectfully, you did the same thing that Sonatine does with the desertrunner IA postings, you inserted the specific search details you wanted Grok to research and report back on, not a neutral or and fair search on the topic. You got back what you wanted it to report on.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

From a post I made last month on VCT regarding the issue of what Vegas can do to improve things.... (don't worry, desertrunner, there's no union talk):

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The solution is staring Vegas in the face, and they're not interested in trying it.

Keep hotel prices the same. Those are fine.

Drop resort fees. Just charge one set price. Even if you end up charging the same overall, people will appreciate it.

Remove the super expensive shit from rooms such as the $26 water bottles. Either make the prices reasonable, or remove them entirely.

Bring back room service. People love it in Vegas, and it's been eliminated in most places. These casinos don't understand that room service doesn't need to be about making money. It's about the whole Vegas experience. Couples in Vegas used to love to spend the evening at a nice dinner, gambling, maybe going to a show, going back to the room to fuck, and ordering room service while they relax. Now some casinos have all food service completely shut down in the late night hours, and room service is gone (or replaced by something awful like UberEats). It's a disgrace.

Make the games more short-term beatable again. Not for APs (though we'd all love that here), but for the average Joe who runs above expectation. Make it so people have enough winning trips to where they can forget about the losing ones, and delude themselves into thinking they're "about even".

Make food prices, in general, reasonable. You don't need to bring back the $6.99 steak dinners, but bring the prices down to where they feel like a good value. Allow people to buy snacks and coffee at normal prices, not horrible marked up prices.

Give hosts power again. Use computers for guidance to hosts, but don't neuter hosts to where they almost completely lack power.

Make the entertainment prices reasonable.

Bring back themes. Everything has become way too generic. Stop worrying about being tacky. Most people like the tackiness of Vegas. Those that don't can stay at places like the Wynn.

Completely eliminate all hidden fees.

Stop charging for parking.



Do all of the above, and the casinos aimed at lower-middle and middle-class clientele will rebound.

Book it.

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Vampire Druff is up tonight-

I'm not worried over any union talk, I just want you to get a deeper understanding of the topic and maybe back up your points.

As for the VCT post, all points and I know we covered most of them in this thread already.





* posted from the desertrunner dupe account and bring back The Boz!

:gay2

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Originally Posted by desertrunner

You broad-paint unions with an ignorant brush and really have little knowledge, it worries me because I know you never listen to anyone else and is always right in your world and the rest of us are dumb.

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Desertrunner accusing someone else of this is rich beyond belief. Pure comedy.

:solidgold

Sorry to interrupt everyone fighting with Desertrunner, but here are a few recent videos about Vegas' prolonged slump:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMT0BVXI1zU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hxmXYPk03I

Also, it seems like a housing market crash may be upcoming, after all the casino layoffs...

South Pointe gets it-

South Point casino stands apart by embracing classic Las Vegas hospitality

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Originally Posted by desertrunner

South Pointe gets it-

South Point casino stands apart by embracing classic Las Vegas hospitality

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For the most part, South Point does get it.

They have semi-cheap food (at least by modern casino standards), they haven't degraded the video poker, and in general they are trying to resist the service reductions and price gouging seen elsewhere.

Unfortunately, their location is awful (it's called South Point for a reason), and really only appeals to locals and/or cheapskates.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

They have semi-cheap food (at least by modern casino standards), they haven't degraded the video poker, and in general they are trying to resist the service reductions and price gouging seen elsewhere.

Unfortunately, their location is awful (it's called South Point for a reason), and really only appeals to locals and/or cheapskates.

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My take on SP- I didnt really care much about them, but then stayed there after they opened and the rooms were impressive. Then gone back a few times and they seem to really operate a nice casino.

As for the location, I would disagree, they had the vision to buy cheaper south as they/we all knew construction would eventually fill in the space gap, as it has. I do like SP and plan to continue going back.

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Originally Posted by desertrunner

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

They have semi-cheap food (at least by modern casino standards), they haven't degraded the video poker, and in general they are trying to resist the service reductions and price gouging seen elsewhere.

Unfortunately, their location is awful (it's called South Point for a reason), and really only appeals to locals and/or cheapskates.

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My take on SP- I didnt really care much about them, but then stayed there after they opened and the rooms were impressive. Then gone back a few times and they seem to really operate a nice casino.

As for the location, I would disagree, they had the vision to buy cheaper south as they/we all knew construction would eventually fill in the space gap, as it has. I do like SP and plan to continue going back.

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There's no way the space between Mandalay Bay and South Point gets filled with casinos any time soon. In fact, a lot of it already is filled -- with condos and other residential stuff.

They are and always will be a locals place.

Dime baseball lines at SouthPoint. The owner deals fair games - old school. Throwback to Binion and his lucite box of cash.

Do the casinos pull from the culinary union hall when they have a function or convention and need extra staff?

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

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Originally Posted by desertrunner

My take on SP- I didnt really care much about them, but then stayed there after they opened and the rooms were impressive. Then gone back a few times and they seem to really operate a nice casino.

As for the location, I would disagree, they had the vision to buy cheaper south as they/we all knew construction would eventually fill in the space gap, as it has. I do like SP and plan to continue going back.

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There's no way the space between Mandalay Bay and South Point gets filled with casinos any time soon. In fact, a lot of it already is filled -- with condos and other residential stuff.

They are and always will be a locals place.

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Druff- Youre reading comprehension has been off lately. Re-read what I wrote as I never said "the space would be filled with casinos". You confirmed exactly what I said, the empty desert has been filled in.

This is why you turned purple, youre letting your emotions take over your critical thinking skills and youre just pouncing to be right all the time, not accurate.





* This is a dupe account, free The Boz.

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Originally Posted by desertrunner

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

There's no way the space between Mandalay Bay and South Point gets filled with casinos any time soon. In fact, a lot of it already is filled -- with condos and other residential stuff.

They are and always will be a locals place.

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Druff- Youre reading comprehension has been off lately. Re-read what I wrote and I never said "the space would be filled with casinos". You confirmed exactly what I said, the empty desert has been filled in.

This is why you turned purple, youre letting your emotions take over your critical thinking skills and youre just pouncing to be right all the time, not accurate.



* This is a dupe account, free The Boz.

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just give it and more importantly, him, a rest man. just take a time out with this shtick. you have caused enough turmoil.

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Originally Posted by desertrunner

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

There's no way the space between Mandalay Bay and South Point gets filled with casinos any time soon. In fact, a lot of it already is filled -- with condos and other residential stuff.

They are and always will be a locals place.

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Druff- Youre reading comprehension has been off lately. Re-read what I wrote as I never said "the space would be filled with casinos". You confirmed exactly what I said, the empty desert has been filled in.

This is why you turned purple, youre letting your emotions take over your critical thinking skills and youre just pouncing to be right all the time, not accurate.





* This is a dupe account, free The Boz.

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Why does it matter if the space has filled in?

It's still a locals casino, and always will be. That was my point.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Why does it matter if the space has filled in?

It's still a locals casino, and always will be. That was my point.

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My point was that you mis-read with I wrote and put words in my mouth that I didnt say.

As for it being a "locals casino", I cant say on that, but every time I go there, its always packed at night and busy. I am not currently a local and I go there like the others do. Seems like a big operation.