Bitcoins are officially donkdown

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Originally Posted by Belly Buster

You decide the fee you want to attach. $80 is one extreme, you could send it for $3 - it will just take longer.

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My $80 is from the presumably 4 $20 BTC transactions you would need to get from fiat into altcoins.

I learned about the giant transaction fees from a post here yesterday. They stated that there is a "sea" of $5 bid transactions that will literally never get picked up. Is that not true?

How long do $20, $15, and $10 transactions take?

The reason I'm shocked by all of this is that I got second hand BTC propaganda back in 2014, and the whole pitch to the retail sector is that they were suckers for paying Visa 30 cents a pop. If bitcoin is now no longer remotely competitive with established payment methods, then it can't possibly succeed in its fundamental goal. That seems like it should be a big deal.

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Originally Posted by DirtyB

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Originally Posted by Belly Buster

You decide the fee you want to attach. $80 is one extreme, you could send it for $3 - it will just take longer.

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I learned about the giant transaction fees from a post here yesterday. They stated that there is a "sea" of $5 bid transactions that will literally never get picked up. Is that not true?

How long do $20, $15, and $10 transactions take?

The reason I'm shocked by all of this is that I got second hand BTC propaganda back in 2014, and the whole pitch to the retail sector is that they were suckers for paying Visa 30 cents a pop. If bitcoin is now no longer remotely competitive with established payment methods, then it can't possibly succeed in its fundamental goal. That seems like it should be a big deal.

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There are webpages that graph out how long transactions take. There is also a weighting given how old your BTC is. (Older BTC gets to go first.. but it is completely up to whomever mines the block) I had to pay $30 about a month ago to move to the front of the line @ about $9k. So $80 makes sense. I forget when transactions are dropped from the mempool, but you can also give them an option to be able to increase the fee. So if it isn't working, you could up it and not have to wait for it to expire. (You can't cancel them though, as that would be exploitable)

Occasionally you'll see a block with 0 transactions.

Yep, it sucks. Obviously BTC proper will not be the main crypto currency in usage for day to day <$200 transactions. So now it is a "store of value" but places like Sealswithclubs and so forth will have to find alternative currencies.

Part of the argument is by keeping the limit at 1 megabyte, you make the network actually far more robust because in theory it can be decrentralized. When you start making blocks that are many megabytes, some guy with a shitty outbound pipe will be screwed. So this is this weird technical tradeoff thing, where purists argue that they want to maintain the robustness/decentralizastion. Realistically though BTC is very centralized amongst a handful of mining pools.

This stuff has never been _that_ much about the technology. At least not anywhere near on the timeframes that we people would like to think it is.

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Originally Posted by donkdowndonedied

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Originally Posted by chinamaniac

Few reasons

#1 Coinbase offers it. Any coin on coinbase is going to moon. They could put a Druffcoin on there tomorrow and if it is cheap people will buy it

#2. Some people still think you can't buy BTC fractions so they just buy what they can afford (ltc)

#3. Litecoin is a very undervalued underrated coin. I am pretty sure it does everything BTC can do only better, cheaper and faster ( their creator was on cnbc today stating this )

#4. With BTC network clogged right now with fees and slow transaction speeds I guess it makes sense that more people are using LTC

#5. Lot of people are dumping their BTC profits into LTc etc...

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3 is bullshit. LTC has no reason to be adopted over BTC. It really just doesn't do enough better than BTC. People hold on to it, lots of vested interest. There is no reason for it to be adopted over BTC outside of speculation. ETH has better chance, as at least you can make all sorts of insane financial instruments on top of it in a trustless manner. (theoretically)

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Not saying it should be or will be adopted over Bitcoin.

What can Bitcoin do that Litecoin can't tech wise right now?

Bitcoin was just first and is on a snowball of epic proportions.

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Originally Posted by donkdowndonedied

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Originally Posted by DirtyB

I get that part. I was thinking about the other end of the market. Bitcoin was pitched as this big democratizing thing that would lift up the little guy. But an $80 fee to walk in the door is a major barrier.

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It is only pitched as being a democratizing thing because the government has no power over your money. (well, IN THEORY)

This power can be either through seizure/taxationn OR uncontrolled/undetermined inflation.

It was never pitched as a thing to keep fees down. THats why I went with IOTA, as that is what it is actually targeted for .. (and the author had my last job previous to me LOL :) )

edit - I had same misconception as you did at some point. Seems like great idea for small payments and stuff, but no, the creator of BTC did not have that in mind. It was to take down corruption in government, not help businesses monetize shit. Also, I am talking about Satoshi and those types. All sorts of people have pitched BTC at this point.. I'm sure they've covered a lot of ground, but originally it wasn't about small fees etc.

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So they designed a currency that was never intended to be used by the retail sector? That seems like an oversight. It can only decrease the power of governments if people trade in their fiat for BTC permanently. If you need to convert to fiat to buy anything, that's going to rack up a whole fuck of a lot of transaction fees.

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Originally Posted by chinamaniac

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Originally Posted by donkdowndonedied

3 is bullshit. LTC has no reason to be adopted over BTC. It really just doesn't do enough better than BTC. People hold on to it, lots of vested interest. There is no reason for it to be adopted over BTC outside of speculation. ETH has better chance, as at least you can make all sorts of insane financial instruments on top of it in a trustless manner. (theoretically)

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Not saying it should be or will be adopted over Bitcoin.

What can Bitcoin do that Litecoin can't tech wise right now?

Bitcoin was just first and is on a snowball of epic proportions.

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I agree with everything you said but just realize there are about a dozen currencies that do everything LTC and BTC does but better. I've called LTC -> BTC v1.2 for years now. My opinion hasn't changed.

I mean, I suppose it is possible, but at least iwth something like dash the money given to miners doesn't end up in the pockets of energy companies. They use that $$ for marketing initiatives etc. LTC is just as ugly as BTC. It was just CHarlie Lee (?) was around in the early early days, so he got off the first or second fork.

What is the incentive for a company to go from BTC classic -> LTC ? BCH seems more likely, as it is still Bitcoin, and derived from the same ledger. So it has that authority.

LTC seems good for speculation. It isn't going anywhere anytime soon, but it is just people trying to get wealthy catching the next BTC, but once those poeple dry up what happens next? Why would LTC keep going up?

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Originally Posted by DirtyB

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Originally Posted by donkdowndonedied

It is only pitched as being a democratizing thing because the government has no power over your money. (well, IN THEORY)

This power can be either through seizure/taxationn OR uncontrolled/undetermined inflation.

It was never pitched as a thing to keep fees down. THats why I went with IOTA, as that is what it is actually targeted for .. (and the author had my last job previous to me LOL :) )

edit - I had same misconception as you did at some point. Seems like great idea for small payments and stuff, but no, the creator of BTC did not have that in mind. It was to take down corruption in government, not help businesses monetize shit. Also, I am talking about Satoshi and those types. All sorts of people have pitched BTC at this point.. I'm sure they've covered a lot of ground, but originally it wasn't about small fees etc.

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So they designed a currency that was never intended to be used by the retail sector? That seems like an oversight. It can only decrease the power of governments if people trade in their fiat for BTC permanently. If you need to convert to fiat to buy anything, that's going to rack up a whole fuck of a lot of transaction fees.

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Yes, it was meant to be censorship resistant/trustless. I mean, it could be used by the retail sector etc, but thats not what the whitepaper talks about... and all those libertarian types. TBH I am not real well versed on the whitepaper, but your thoughts mimmick mine when I first started getting into BTC and I'm explaining my understanding.

I mean, Micon just sorta got lucky. I once told him BTC would never scale and he was just as clueless as ever. p2p networks just don't work that well, especially ones that use the most crude bruteforce way imagineable to come to conclusions.

Here is something cool about BTC style networks.. You could literally broadcast the blocks over a radio. You can still do that by keeping size limited. This stuff is really weird. It is a mixture of CS and social stuff. Used to be very very few people got this stuff, but thats changed..

THere are a weird million different tradeoffs to this shit. I always wanted to write a coin and took steps/got close. I never did it. I should have and made my own baby.. I'd probably have a lot more money. I met a guy who I litereally thought was slow.. and he wrote a coin (from scratch) that is worth 137 million last I checked. He must be a great developer, just sorta arrogant with his ignorance.. but wtf do I know. So many crazy stories about this crap. Far more interesting than poker ever was, just people aren't very interesting. No true degenerates.

I tried to be sensible and diversify my crypto portfolio but the gains and losses just end up cancelling out each other

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Originally Posted by MrTickle

I tried to be sensible and diversify my crypto portfolio but the gains and losses just end up cancelling out each other

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The big caps move first (Bitcoin), then the mid caps (eth,LTC,dash) and at the end...all the shit coins will skyrocket. I sure hope so!

What's the deal with Ripple/XRP?

Another priceless CNBC moment.

Jim Cramer CNBC teasing that tonight he will have John McAfee on to talk about Bitcoin. Oh, boy!

No words needed. Couldn’t anyway cause we are all too hoarse from laughing.

Sounds legit. I would definately invest in something that doesn't let me sell when I want to.

Boiler Room is real life folks.

https://www.coindesk.com/coinbase-ha...-prices-spike/

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Originally Posted by OSA

Sounds legit. I would definately invest in something that doesn't let me sell when I want to.

Boiler Room is real life folks.

https://www.coindesk.com/coinbase-ha...-prices-spike/

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I’m confused. You can’t exchange for US fiat? Is LTC & ETH not the libertarian and utopian alternative everyone is rushing to?

Speculation

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Originally Posted by Sanlmar

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Originally Posted by OSA

Sounds legit. I would definately invest in something that doesn't let me sell when I want to.

Boiler Room is real life folks.

https://www.coindesk.com/coinbase-ha...-prices-spike/

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I’m confused. You can’t exchange for US fiat? Is LTC & ETH not the libertarian and utopian alternative everyone is rushing to?

Speculation

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I believe Coinbase continually shuts down due to volume.

They want people to play poker not leave with their winnings.

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Originally Posted by OSA

Sounds legit. I would definately invest in something that doesn't let me sell when I want to.

Boiler Room is real life folks.

https://www.coindesk.com/coinbase-ha...-prices-spike/

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Step, that is the equivalent of saying the same about the dollar because the biggest chain of stores closed down for an hour because their point of sale system crashed.

Kinda dumb, no?

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Originally Posted by simpdog

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Originally Posted by Sanlmar

I’m confused. You can’t exchange for US fiat? Is LTC & ETH not the libertarian and utopian alternative everyone is rushing to?

Speculation

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I believe Coinbase continually shuts down due to volume.

They want people to play poker not leave with their winnings.

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There are two kinds of people in in the world

Crap table. Shooter is on a heater. The rail will be 3 deep and everyone is pressing their bets.

There will be one guy either craning his neck to watch the action or just collecting his min bet.

“Drop 3 for 10, sir”

You know which guy I am.

You can tell the crypto market has gone nuts because tether, the currency that is printed to match each dollar received in cash, is trading at $1.05 - and this despite allegations that the printers don't have the dollar amount to match the printed currency.

I want to buy Ripple. I have these four options:

Bitstamp

Kraken

Gatehub

BTCXIndia


Help me, niggats.

the nicehash theft hoard wallet is currently worth over 82m.

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Originally Posted by sonatine

the nicehash theft hoard wallet is currently worth over 82m.

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i wonder how many bitcoins are 'lost'.. eg 'holy shit i forgot my wallet password' type lost.

im guessing its a not-insignificant percent.