Has Men ever discussed or admitted to any of those things from the past?
Has Men ever discussed or admitted to any of those things from the past?
How in the fucking hell can anyone not notice sooner the CLEARLY different shade of gray chips in play? I mean they aren't even fucking close. Jesus.
Such a fail.
True which common sense would lend you to believe they were only introduced late into day 2, and probably were actually seen within some hours of introduction.Quote:
Originally Posted by NaturalBornHustler
Unless they were really slick, and did it 1 at a time, from early on introduced them and got real chips in return, kinda like how people monetize counterfeit money. Except if this happened you would think at least one dealer would have noticed.
I'll just leave this here.Quote:
Originally Posted by NaturalBornHustler
No, the closest you'll ever get is Negreanu's candid explanation from an old QuadJacks episode where he intimated that Men's transgressions were mainly from pressure. Here is my recap of it from a few years ago:Quote:
Originally Posted by Erin Micunt
Quote:
... we also got Daniel’s take regarding the rampant rumors of Men “The Master” Nguyen’s cheating; with Daniel saying he sort of felt bad for Men.
Daniel didn’t absolve Men of the cheating allegations, but did explain the reason why Men is often accused of playing in a cheating pack and soft-playing his “horses”. According to Daniel, Men was under a lot of pressure from the Vietnamese community to not bust Vietnamese players in tournaments. Daniel said that if he didn’t soft-play the other Vietnamese players –some of whom Daniel described as gang members--he was threatened, with the players saying “I know where you live Men The Master”.
Of course Daniel then went on to detail two legitimate soft-playing/chip-dumping scenarios with Men, and implicated him in more serious charges –charges Daniel didn’t go into detail about, but likely having to do with missing chips, spotters, and other more serious allegations that have haunted Men through the years.
I've heard the tourney chips at Borgata aren't exactly "uniform" to begin withQuote:
Originally Posted by NaturalBornHustler
Quote:
Originally Posted by SrslySirius
:this:
I've heard about massive amounts of shenanigans at the Hollywood 10M tournament. You can't use the same chips that they use at at the daily $60 tournament that you do for the $10M super event. The problem has obviously spread.
from PocketFives Dan Cypra
Friday was a rather eventful day in the Borgata Winter Poker Open. The opening event was suspended at the start of Day 3 when 27 players remained after it was speculated that counterfeit chips with a value of 5,000 were found in play. Read more about the drama. Twenty-four hours later, Borgata officials announced the event had been canceled. As for the future of the prize pool, PokerNews relayed, "All unpaid prize money will be frozen until the investigation is complete."
First place was scheduled to make $372,000 and the top four finishers were scheduled to make six-figures.
Borgata President and COO Tom Ballance told PokerNews, "Thus far, investigators have found that one or more tournament entrants improperly introduced a significant number of counterfeit chips into the tournament, gaining an unfair advantage and compromising the integrity of play for the event."
He added, "It is extremely unfortunate that the criminal actions of these individuals can have a detrimental impact on more than 4,000 other entrants. We fully understand and regret the disappointment this cancellation causes our valued customers and we will work diligently with DGE investigators to resolve the situation as quickly as possible. The integrity of our games and the confidence of our players is of the utmost importance to us."
Other Winter Poker Open events, including the WPT Main Event, will be held as planned.
Cries of #chipgate rang out on Twitter throughout the day on Saturday, with poker player Ben Mintz chirping, "If I was one of the last 27 players in the Borgata 2 mil poker tourney, I would not be very happy right now!" A parody of #chipgate was posted on Twitter (pictured).
Speaking of the final 27, one of the members of the group posted on Two Plus Two on Saturday night, "I think we are getting paid. Conjecture of course. Right now, all we know is that the prize pool is being held while the investigation is going on. As you can imagine, it was a wild and emotional scene when [Borgata Senior Vice President of Operations] Joe Lupo took the 27 of us behind locked doors and told us the tourney was cancelled and that no prizes would be immediately forthcoming."
According to the Associated Press, no charges have been filed. The AP story was featured on the home page of Yahoo. We'll keep you posted on the latest.
Men has been caught passing chips under a bathroom stall to one or more of his scumbag cohorts and was caught with tourny chips in his hotel room because he was cooking on some hot plate type of thing and started a fire.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerAndPoker
He is not some criminal mastermind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThreeBet
I don't doubt a lot of the stories though some are definitely stretched but technically Men wasn't found guilty of much when you consider he wasn't barred from playing at casino properties all over. Some rumors are that he was banned from a few places like Foxwoods but I don't think I've ever heard 100% confirmation on this.
So if the casinos didn't discover a lot of the supposed cheating he did then Men is only guilty by conclusions other people have come to.
Even though I say this I believe he's guilty of course of foul play but still I'm just calling the situation like I see it and because Men wasn't barred all around I do think he's at least more intelligent then sneaking a bunch of fake chips into this tournament.
If their was one or two fake ones that would seem way more possible but I don't think Men and his crew bring a bunch into a tournament especically when he brought suspicions on himself already from years ago.
I could be wrong obviously but if Men and his cronies went this far then it's extremely retarded and much more risky then I think they would go. Personally, I just see them dumping to one another or taking a big chip off their stack to give to another person in their clan on break more then bringing in tons of fake chips.
As for the Hard Rock Florida situation that Matusow is discussing in the posted video that casino was super new at the time and someone probably thought if they wanted to pull one over why not try on a casino having their first massive field tournament? It was a perfect mark for a cheater to take chances at.
If any casino uses the same chips for these re-entries the following day allowing new entries then they are retarded as hell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerAndPokerQuote:
Originally Posted by ThreeBet
I don't doubt a lot of the stories though some are definitely stretched but technically Men wasn't found guilty of much when you consider he wasn't barred from playing at casino properties all over. Some rumors are that he was banned from a few places like Foxwoods but I don't think I've ever heard 100% confirmation on this.
So if the casinos didn't discover a lot of the supposed cheating he did then Men is only guilty by conclusions other people have come to.
Even though I say this I believe he's guilty of course of foul play but still I'm just calling the situation like I see it and because Men wasn't barred all around I do think he's at least more intelligent then sneaking a bunch of fake chips into this tournament.
If their was one or two fake ones that would seem way more possible but I don't think Men and his crew bring a bunch into a tournament especically when he brought suspicions on himself already from years ago.
I could be wrong obviously but if Men and his cronies went this far then it's extremely retarded and much more risky then I think they would go. Personally, I just see them dumping to one another or taking a big chip off their stack to give to another person in their clan on break more then bringing in tons of fake chips.
As for the Hard Rock Florida situation that Matusow is discussing in the posted video that casino was super new at the time and someone probably thought if they wanted to pull one over why not try on a casino having their first massive field tournament? It was a perfect mark for a cheater to take chances at.
If any casino uses the same chips for these re-entries the following day allowing new entries then they are retarded as hell.
Men isnt dumb. He works with a huge crew of Vietnamese scammers. The sophistication of those crews is well documented.
Their priorities are:
1) Insulate Men from liability.
2) Chip up Men.
When Men makes money, they make money.
I dont want to get into a huge thing about Vietnamese gangs but read Jim Goad's article about them for a suitable primer. Men is a community leader, aka a fucking gangster. And there are rules in that community that play real well into making sure these 'rumors' about Men stay plausibly denied just enough to keep him at the trough.
But make no mistake, the man is a criminal, and if you really digest the source and scope of the rumors about him, I dont really think youll find yourself that concerned with meeting the standards for legal conviction.
My understanding is that he has responded with "I have never been caught cheating".Quote:
Originally Posted by Erin Micunt
Men's a scumball.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve-O
On Twitter, Men has assured us that all of the Borgata chips that he sold are 100% pure ;)
https://twitter.com/MenHouseOfChip/s...28671178731520
This would have been caught immediately if this poker tournament was held in Las Vegas.
Is the poker staff at the Borgata in Atlantic City smoking crack?
The WPT needs to pull all their poker tournaments out of the Borgata right now.
or the Borgata could just make Men "The Master" Nguyen their poker ambassador.
:outright
that thread at 2+2 is a complete abortion. I have never seen so many people so sure of what happened, with minimal evidence, who also think they know the best way to handle things, and they are mostly all awful.
How can people suggest that two days (or more) after the tourney was cancelled, that they restart it and play it out? Seriously!?
Their payout ideas are a joke
They arent taking into consideration the legalities of what the Borgata has to potentially deal with.
I loved the suggestion that every single player get their entire tourney entry refunded AND each of the 27 remaining players get paid first-place money. Why not have Borgata staff personally give each player a handie while they're at it?Quote:
Originally Posted by DRK Star
maybe this is more sinister than it sounds.. 2 racks of chips being snuck in sounds a little far fetched because it is. I have a different theory. I fired two bullets in this tournament. On my first buyin my stack was waiting for me at the table. The chip stack was dirty dull worn down and dark. It's probobly been used for years and never washed. My 2nd bullet my stack was given to me and the desk in the event center. It was obvious they were brand new and never used. The were slicker, clean, the grays were noticeably lighter colored and the chips still were sparkly that rubbed off on my fingers a little. I don't believe 200 chips were snuck into tournament unnoticed. There were no counterfeits, simple a later run of chips when the casino ordered more from than manufacture came out lighter than the original production run. The casino or someone managing the tournament was stealing buyins. An extra million in chips is $28000 missing from the pot. Wait and see what happens here.. It's a big deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by SrslySirius
I also find it interesting the borgata gave away 50 buyins on it's website. The exact amount of buyins for 50 players at 20k each is 1 million chips.Quote:
Originally Posted by Omaharyanmaybe this is more sinister than it sounds.. 2 racks of chips being snuck in sounds a little far fetched because it is. I have a different theory. I fired two bullets in this tournament. On my first buyin my stack was waiting for me at the table. The chip stack was dirty dull worn down and dark. It's probobly been used for years and never washed. My 2nd bullet my stack was given to me and the desk in the event center. It was obvious they were brand new and never used. The were slicker, clean, the grays were noticeably lighter colored and the chips still were sparkly that rubbed off on my fingers a little. I don't believe 200 chips were snuck into tournament unnoticed. There were no counterfeits, simple a later run of chips when the casino ordered more from than manufacture came out lighter than the original production run. The casino or someone managing the tournament was stealing buyins. An extra million in chips is $28000 missing from the pot. Wait and see what happens here.. It's a big deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by SrslySirius
Its not terrible uncommon for casino tourneys to have some newer chips than older chips. So a color differential might not get noticed.Quote:
Originally Posted by garrettTrue which common sense would lend you to believe they were only introduced late into day 2, and probably were actually seen within some hours of introduction.Quote:
Originally Posted by NaturalBornHustler
Unless they were really slick, and did it 1 at a time, from early on introduced them and got real chips in return, kinda like how people monetize counterfeit money. Except if this happened you would think at least one dealer would have noticed.
Introducing the chips day two would be the easiest and safest way to do it. When you're bagging up chips or empty out your chip back it would be real easy to just pull some chips out of your pocket and add them to your stack.
On the two posts above great points, and really should be mentioned because it is not in this thread yet. The Borgata did not end this tournament, its very clear in the wording the Department of Gaming "ordered" this tournament be ended and prize pool suspended.
Obviously this could be par for the course, but it also kinda make you wonder, was Borgata trying to run the event to conclusion, and DGE "ordered" it to be stopped. The Borgata is a poker player haven on the east coast, surely Dealers, Staff etc are very well aware of a vast majority of players, not saying that was part of this, I just find the wording interesting that the Tournament was "ordered" stopped by the DGE and not Borgata.
It sounds like the DGE pulled rank on the Borgata on the surface, but why.
I don't know, maybe it has something to do with the DGE being the regulatory body that oversees gaming in New Jersey (Division of Gaming Enforcement) and investigates matters like this?Quote:
Originally Posted by garrett
Borgata thinks something is amiss and conducts preliminary investigation.... Borgata confirms there are 1 million in extra chips.... DGE is called and brought in to investigate.... DGE makes decision on how to proceed
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve-OI don't know, maybe it has something to do with the DGE being the regulatory body that oversees gaming in New Jersey (Division of Gaming Enforcement) and investigates matters like this?Quote:
Originally Posted by garrett
Borgata thinks something is amiss and conducts preliminary investigation.... Borgata confirms there are 1 million in extra chips.... DGE is called and brought in to investigate.... DGE makes decision on how to proceed
Thanks Captain obvious.
Unbeknownst to you and your homeboy Deal, I know how this all works. I was just shedding a little light on one of the finer points largely left out of this thread so far. And I did mention it could be par for the course, but don't just assume because this is the chain of command, that means it is exactly how this went down. Clearly the DGE ordered stoppage.
Also I don't really care who you are, your regurgitated old Daniel Negreanu copy and past in the thread, shows your motivation. You are clearly someone looking to promote yourself, in whatever it is you do. And in all honestly, I am not interested. Just know this take a step back, you have been clearly misinformed about me, as have many around these parts.
Keep your comments in this thread on point, and stop regurgitating your own old articles for self gain, thanks.
Steve brings a pretty good perspective on a lot of topics. I don't see what you're so pissed about. You asked why & he told you why.Quote:
Originally Posted by garrettQuote:
Originally Posted by Steve-O
Thanks Captain obvious.
Unbeknownst to you and your homeboy Deal, I know how this all works. I was just shedding a little light on one of the finer points largely left out of this thread so far. And I did mention it could be par for the course, but don't just assume because this is the chain of command, that means it is exactly how this went down. Clearly the DGE ordered stoppage.
Also I don't really care who you are, your regurgitated old Daniel Negreanu copy and past in the thread, shows your motivation. You are clearly someone looking to promote yourself, in whatever it is you do. And in all honestly, I am not interested. Just know this take a step back, you have been clearly misinformed about me, as have many around these parts.
Keep your comments in this thread on point, and stop regurgitating your own old articles for self gain, thanks.
You take the internet way too seriously dude. BTW you forgot to challenge him to the obligatory HU4 rolls challenge.
You have proven beyond a reasonable doubt that you know very little about anything. There is no doubt you also believe you are one of the top 1% of all drivers, great in bed, a poker phenom, the greatest reader of people you know and a whole whack of other skills that have never been measured or when they have, like poker, you make believe you lose out of bad luck and variance. You simply suck at life and way over value any speck of information your pea brain has retained over the years.Quote:
Originally Posted by garrettQuote:
Originally Posted by Steve-O
Thanks Captain obvious.
Unbeknownst to you and your homeboy Deal, I know how this all works. I was just shedding a little light on one of the finer points largely left out of this thread so far. And I did mention it could be par for the course, but don't just assume because this is the chain of command, that means it is exactly how this went down. Clearly the DGE ordered stoppage.
Also I don't really care who you are, your regurgitated old Daniel Negreanu copy and past in the thread, shows your motivation. You are clearly someone looking to promote yourself, in whatever it is you do. And in all honestly, I am not interested. Just know this take a step back, you have been clearly misinformed about me, as have many around these parts.
Keep your comments in this thread on point, and stop regurgitating your own old articles for self gain, thanks.
Case closed.
The whole implication of your post is that there is something shady going on behind the scenes and the DGE had to step in, but if you actually followed the story (and not just the forum gossip) you would know that the proper protocol was followed from the get go; Borgata notified the DGE as soon as something was amiss. You said "the wording was interesting" and I explained that it's simply SOP.Quote:
Originally Posted by garrettQuote:
Originally Posted by Steve-O
Thanks Captain obvious.
Unbeknownst to you and your homeboy Deal, I know how this all works. I was just shedding a little light on one of the finer points largely left out of this thread so far. And I did mention it could be par for the course, but don't just assume because this is the chain of command, that means it is exactly how this went down. Clearly the DGE ordered stoppage.
Also I don't really care who you are, your regurgitated old Daniel Negreanu copy and past in the thread, shows your motivation. You are clearly someone looking to promote yourself, in whatever it is you do. And in all honestly, I am not interested. Just know this take a step back, you have been clearly misinformed about me, as have many around these parts.
Keep your comments in this thread on point, and stop regurgitating your own old articles for self gain, thanks.
Also, if I was promoting myself I would have posted the link to the blog, which I do if it's on topic, but since it was only a couple paragraphs of pertinent info from the blog post on the QJ radio show I just copy/pasted the snippet that applied. My agenda here is I spent a lot of time on PFA when the site first got off the ground and enjoy the intelligent poker related discussions, so I still contribute here and there. The only shameless promotion I did on here was when I was working on a scammers/cheaters series.
So what's your angle?
It's all just speculation...Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve-OThe whole implication of your post is that there is something shady going on behind the scenes and the DGE had to step in, but if you actually followed the story (and not just the forum gossip) you would know that the proper protocol was followed from the get go; Borgata notified the DGE as soon as something was amiss. You said "the wording was interesting" and I explained that it's simply SOP.Quote:
Originally Posted by garrett
Also, if I was promoting myself I would have posted the link to the blog, which I do if it's on topic, but since it was only a couple paragraphs of pertinent info from the blog post on the QJ radio show I just copy/pasted the snippet that applied. My agenda here is I spent a lot of time on PFA when the site first got off the ground and enjoy the intelligent poker related discussions, so I still contribute here and there. The only shameless promotion I did on here was when I was working on a scammers/cheaters series.
So what's your angle?
Their is plenty of less interesting things to talk about, across many a places these days. If that is an angle, then so be it.
Don't know what to make of this:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=1658
Re: Borgata Floor Finds Tons of Counterfeit 5k Chips in Event 1 Winter Poker Open - Cancels eve
Ok time some facts .
An arrest will be made Monday. Or I should say the responsible party will be turning themselves in on Monday.
There was NO inside involvement. This will be extremely bizarre as the reasons are complicated. There was never supposed to be extra chips added. It was more of a "set someone up" kinda thing. Any avid poker player knows its impossible to put 200 plus extra chips in play. If so the other 5 million would have been added too. What happened is some of the chips were "stolen" and put in play by probably several people. There are reasons and explanations that simply can't be revealed. Someday maybe? But the of the matter is this was NOT supposed to have happened. The state will be pressing the steepest charges they can by law. After all someone has to take the blame and punishment. I can tell you that the person responsible is at a loss for words at the mess. It is unforgivable, and for many never forgotten. One day the exact story shall prevail. Some time in jail will allow plenty of time for writing a book perhaps. Who knows.
justbecauseican
stranger
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 5
Re: Borgata Floor Finds Tons of Counterfeit 5k Chips in Event 1 Winter Poker Open - Cancels eve
It's real. I'm the responsible party. Should hit the news Monday.
justbecauseican
stranger
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 5
Re: Borgata Floor Finds Tons of Counterfeit 5k Chips in Event 1 Winter Poker Open - Cancels eve
I'm not guilty for the cheating, but I am responsible. I plan to accept responsibility. My name will be all over the net Monday.
justbecauseican is online now
Men the Master had absolutely nothing to do with it. It not a SCHEME to cheat. You simply can't add junky looking spray painted chips to a tournament, obviously!! I'm not making this up. Not looking for a book deal. I was just saying that everyone deserves to know the real story. Those reasons can't be explained right now. Legal issues. I just felt that the players need to know what's gonna be happening. As far as the Borgata and reimbursement I have no idea. My best guess is that the chips fell in the hands of some young guns...and several of them added a few at a time. Probably didn't even cash. If surveillance has them on camera that I do not know. But chips were stolen and used, and that was not the purpose of them. Yes this is complicated and hard to comprehend, but that is all I can say at this point. Sorry doesn't even come close. I caused this mess, and I'll do some jail time and pay the piper. I'm sure everyone would prefer tarred and feathered thought.
Posts: 5
Re: Borgata Floor Finds Tons of Counterfeit 5k Chips in Event 1 Winter Poker Open - Cancels eve
No.... nobody looking for attention. Some of it may not come out in court proceedings. Someone may be in jeopardy of harm if the facts came out in state court. I am waiting until Monday because I am trying to arrange bond etc. They are throwing harsh charges and very high bond. Plus I may not be going anywhere for a while. Getting some affairs in order. I'm sorry that it is confusing and frustrating. That is simply all I can say for now. Don't make accusations of who you think it was intended for as you will all be wrong. My reason for even posting was simply to let everyone know that this will end Monday as far as the criminal aspect. As far as refunds and such I would think Borgata will do the right thing. That's all for now. The only other thing I can mention is once I found out the chips made it into play, I flushed the rest down the toilet. Why the toilet? I don't know. If Harrah's had better plumbing I may not be posting this right now. Gotta go.
Thanks for posting this here IamGreek. I am one of those who is banned from 4 lol. Have not read anything on that site in a couple of years.
I am assuming this is the culprit. Some things he said are really awful, like "someone has to take the blame and punishment", really?
This guy is either hammered when typing this, not American or this whole thing is a troll. I honestly believe this is one of the culprits, and lol he is so smart he tried to FLUSH the extra ~300 chips down a Harrahs toilet bowl, then blamed Harrahs "Plumbing" for not being better and why he was ultimately caught. Or else his post would have never been made (huh)???
This person may be out of touch with reality. Or just a total level, if not this guy sounds about as retarded as someone who would introduce a few hundred fake chips into a 2 million dollar poker tournament. Also the "several young guns" leaves much to be desired, he is just teasing and acting like he is the fall guy here. When apparently this was a bigger scheme than he is leading onto. Oh yea and everything was just a big misunderstanding(lol)?
Please keep us banned from that site filled in thanks...
Obviously he does not know how an arrest affidavit works.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamGreek
The State when they arrest him on Monday (assuming this is not a troll), will have all the probable cause included in the arrest affidavit, which is public record.
Also a book deal, really, I mean this guy I hope is not some overly well thought of "pro" because he lacks really fundamental and simple logic. The only book people would be interested in reading, is the one of the chip leaders, with no 6 figure scores who were cheated of possible career/life changing money and opportunity. Not that of the one who cheated them from that opportunity.
Again way out of touch with reality...
Seems extremely fake to me
I agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Erin Micunt
Me thinks we need Super Sleuth Druff to break this down for us, No?
Guy on 2+2 was legit: http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/c...a4bcf887a.html
This guy must not have learned. From 2008Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve-O
http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/3684348/
"The owner of the house, Christian Patrick Lusardi, 36, was charged with gambling and illegal alcohol sales. His mother, Diana Lusardi, was charged with illegal gambling."
I don't like that article title. It makes it sound like he had $2.7 in real money chips knowing that the average joe reading will not know that the tourney chips have no cash value. Also big LOL for trying to flush the damned things.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve-O
That doesn't make him legit. The Harrah's story was already sem-public by the time of his posts. Even if it were the same guy his explanation is very dumb. The chips were stolen from him. This doesn't account for him bringing the chips from NC to AC. Were they playing mock tournaments in his room?Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve-O
I am 99% sure I have played poker with this guy in the underground games here. I expect I will know some of the other people that were involved because they are probably from NC. I haven't played any underground games in months but I may soon as there is a new game that just started in a nice luxury location about 2 miles from my mom's house. Tempted I am.
His explanation is bogus, as he probably thinks he can keep the investigation focused on him and not implicate others by taking this line. that part is pure BS, but I tend to believe that the 2+2 poster was him based on the flushing.Quote:
Originally Posted by bukowski72That doesn't make him legit. The Harrah's story was already sem-public by the time of his posts. Even if it were the same guy his explanation is very dumb. The chips were stolen from him. This doesn't account for him bringing the chips from NC to AC. Were they playing mock tournaments in his room?Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve-O
I am 99% sure I have played poker with this guy in the underground games here. I expect I will know some of the other people that were involved because they are probably from NC. I haven't played any underground games in months but I may soon as there is a new game that just started in a nice luxury location about 2 miles from my mom's house. Tempted I am.
The story is that he was using them for some other purpose and they were stolen and used in the tournament by thieves. this way he is absolving himself of introducing them, and stopping the investigation at himself. At least that's how it appears to me. Obviously this won't work since he built a massive stack during his opening flight and was the chip-leader --so we pretty much know who used them
This is really a hilarious story. LOL @ flushing chips down the toilet.
http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townn...review-300.jpg
As Steve-O said, claiming that his chips were somehow stolen and misused is ridiculous, especially when he was a big chip leader early in the tournament.
Idiot thought he had a brilliant plan to win that tournament and it all unraveled.