Bodog/Bovada experts -- how do I reach a manager at the company?

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Originally Posted by Anal_Hershiser

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Originally Posted by JimmyG_415

Do you think he read that? he hit reply before the 1st sentence was done, and calling you stupid.
His point is beyond moronis ,like you should still keep shopping at his store even though the prices are higher you. and you only.

I'm sure when he is at the ice cream store and they give out free sprinkles,.........he get his.

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Do you have Downs Syndrome? My whole point is that they don't want Druff as a customer in the first place. He's difficult to deal with and he's a winning player. THEY DON'T WANT HIM AS A CUSTOMER. You really are closing in on 408 and 6TP as the biggest dumbfuck on this board.

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You're only half right.

They don't like winning players on Bodog/Bovada -- that is true.

However, the monkeys answering the phone in the Philippines don't know or care how difficult I am to deal with, but just have their set of rules and the scripts that they read from. Whether I am easygoing or difficult, this situation would still be playing out the same. It's not like a small business owner who decides he doesn't want my money, even if I am willing to be a regular customer. This is just bureaucracy I'm running into.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

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Originally Posted by Anal_Hershiser

Do you have Downs Syndrome? My whole point is that they don't want Druff as a customer in the first place. He's difficult to deal with and he's a winning player. THEY DON'T WANT HIM AS A CUSTOMER. You really are closing in on 408 and 6TP as the biggest dumbfuck on this board.

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You're only half right.

They don't like winning players on Bodog/Bovada -- that is true.

However, the monkeys answering the phone in the Philippines don't know or care how difficult I am to deal with, but just have their set of rules and the scripts that they read from. Whether I am easygoing or difficult, this situation would still be playing out the same. It's not like a small business owner who decides he doesn't want my money, even if I am willing to be a regular customer. This is just bureaucracy I'm running into.

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There must be a reason you didn't get the bonus to begin with. There must be a reason they are refusing to let you speak to someone about it. Seems like more than bureaucracy that you are running into.

BTW, you guys can continue to fight in this thread because it's pretty much run its course as far as any useful information I could get out of it.

Please don't spill over the fighting to other threads, however.

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Originally Posted by Anal_Hershiser

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

You're only half right.

They don't like winning players on Bodog/Bovada -- that is true.

However, the monkeys answering the phone in the Philippines don't know or care how difficult I am to deal with, but just have their set of rules and the scripts that they read from. Whether I am easygoing or difficult, this situation would still be playing out the same. It's not like a small business owner who decides he doesn't want my money, even if I am willing to be a regular customer. This is just bureaucracy I'm running into.

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There must be a reason you didn't get the bonus to begin with. There must be a reason they are refusing to let you speak to someone about it. Seems like more than bureaucracy that you are running into.

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This has gone on for years before I ever had a single encounter with their customer service, so no, it's not.

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Originally Posted by Anal_Hershiser

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Originally Posted by JimmyG_415

Do you think he read that? he hit reply before the 1st sentence was done, and calling you stupid.
His point is beyond moronis ,like you should still keep shopping at his store even though the prices are higher you. and you only.

I'm sure when he is at the ice cream store and they give out free sprinkles,.........he get his.

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Do you have Downs Syndrome? My whole point is that they don't want Druff as a customer in the first place. He's difficult to deal with and he's a winning player. THEY DON'T WANT HIM AS A CUSTOMER. You really are closing in on 408 and 6TP as the biggest dumbfuck on this board.

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If you had ever been on a poker website, you'd know how stupid of a comment that earlier post was, and now how stupid this one is.

My point Druff was why write such a looooooooooooong rebuttal,
I'd bet my life he doesn't have the attention span to get through 10 % of that.

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Originally Posted by JimmyG_415

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Originally Posted by Anal_Hershiser

Do you have Downs Syndrome? My whole point is that they don't want Druff as a customer in the first place. He's difficult to deal with and he's a winning player. THEY DON'T WANT HIM AS A CUSTOMER. You really are closing in on 408 and 6TP as the biggest dumbfuck on this board.

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If you had ever been on a poker website, you'd know how stupid of a comment that earlier post was, and now how stupid this one is.

My point Druff was why write such a looooooooooooong rebuttal,
I'd bet my life he doesn't have the attention span to get through 10 % of that.

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Absolutely fucking clueless.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

BTW, you guys can continue to fight in this thread because it's pretty much run its course as far as any useful information I could get out of it.

Please don't spill over the fighting to other threads, however.

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DO NOT GROUP ME W/HIM


2 reasons
# 1 Any fighting from me is because he attacked me 1st
# 2 At least I have interest in the threads. (and in poker)

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Originally Posted by JimmyG_415

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

BTW, you guys can continue to fight in this thread because it's pretty much run its course as far as any useful information I could get out of it.

Please don't spill over the fighting to other threads, however.

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DO NOT GROUP ME W/HIM


2 reasons
# 1 Any fighting from me is because he attacked me 1st
# 2 At least I have interest in the threads. (and in poker)

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ROFL. Look in THIS thread. Who attacked who 1st? You don't even remember things that happened 30 minutes ago. Seriously, do you have a learning disorder? Downs? Something has to be going on for you to forget what happened 30 minutes ago.

I see you've been lurking this thread for about 20 minutes. Don't know what to say to backup your obvious lies? Kill yourself.

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Originally Posted by Anal_Hershiser

I see you've been lurking this thread for about 20 minutes. Don't know what to say to backup your obvious lies? Kill yourself.

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LOL, yeah I started it.

What you think is me "lurking", is me 100 % forgetting you even exist, and forgetting to log off.

Back on track.

badguy23's e-mail address for "Becky" actually was helpful. She responded and got a hold of some manager at Bovada. I did not state my concern to her, but only stated that I needed a manager and was being blocked from speaking to one. She got a hold of one and "forrwarded my information" to him, but I'm not holding my breath that I'll get contacted.

Still, it was worth a shot, so either way, thanks for the assistance, badguy.

I will say your "friend" - the winning player who got the bonus was the exception not the rule. Winning players don't get anything on that site in terms of bonuses.

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Originally Posted by JimmyG_415

# 1 Any fighting from me is because he attacked me 1st
# 2 At least I have interest in the threads. (and in poker)

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Lol. Not only are you a liar, but you're a fucking dumbass too. Are you really so stupid as to forget what you did in this thread? Maybe people like you and 40Ape need your own "special" forum. You guys could lie and talk about being broke with each other. 50% of your posts are directed at me. All because you're still crying over your pathetic 3 figure roll on FTP being taken. Lol @ being crushed at losing low 3 figures.

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Originally Posted by Anal_Hershiser

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Originally Posted by JimmyG_415

# 1 Any fighting from me is because he attacked me 1st
# 2 At least I have interest in the threads. (and in poker)

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Lol. Not only are you a liar, but you're a fucking dumbass too. Are you really so stupid as to forget what you did in this thread? Maybe people like you and 40Ape need your own "special" forum. You guys could lie and talk about being broke with each other. 50% of your posts are directed at me. All because you're still crying over your pathetic 3 figure roll on FTP being taken. Lol @ being crushed at losing low 3 figures.

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Again, yeah I started it.

The fact that you waited for me for 20 minutes and I'd already forgotten about you says it all.
I'm on here 10 minutes a day max, you live here.
Get a life, there is a whole word going on outside your little room.

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Originally Posted by JimmyG_415

DO NOT GROUP ME W/HIM

2 reasons
# 1 Any fighting from me is because he attacked me 1st
# 2 At least I have interest in the threads. (and in poker)

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Originally Posted by JimmyG_415

Again, yeah I started it.

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You're a really smart guy. Just pathetic. Lol @ 40Jimmy.

Thanks badguy for the Becky e-mail.

She got me connected to a manger, who I spoke to tonight.

It's all good now. Appreciate the help.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Thanks badguy for the Becky e-mail.

She got me connected to a manger, who I spoke to tonight.

It's all good now. Appreciate the help.

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After all that we don't get to hear what they set you up with?

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

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Originally Posted by Anal_Hershiser

Do you have Downs Syndrome? My whole point is that they don't want Druff as a customer in the first place. He's difficult to deal with and he's a winning player. THEY DON'T WANT HIM AS A CUSTOMER. You really are closing in on 408 and 6TP as the biggest dumbfuck on this board.

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You're only half right.

They don't like winning players on Bodog/Bovada -- that is true.

However, the monkeys answering the phone in the Philippines don't know or care how difficult I am to deal with, but just have their set of rules and the scripts that they read from. Whether I am easygoing or difficult, this situation would still be playing out the same. It's not like a small business owner who decides he doesn't want my money, even if I am willing to be a regular customer. This is just bureaucracy I'm running into.

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You think the "notes" field ni the database paints you as a nice guy? My guess is it is full of disparaging remarks. I'm sure the phone ops skim it over when they take your call. To think ti is just a problem with simple bureaucracy is a bit facepalm.

It is their business. For some reason I doubt you get your money in with negative value except against other poker players. I'd guess you are possibly rude or borderline obnoxious on the phone and have probably been so numerous times. Yet you think this privately owned business should give you more because they choose to do it for other players. I was hoping someone would call you out for the level of entitlement you feel.

In the past few years I've realized the types who scream about socialism and such really don't care about wealth redistribution as an ideal .. They're not against it on morale grounds, even if they claim to be. They just hate the idea of someone getting something that they don't get. I've seen this so many times in my life and it disgusts me.

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Originally Posted by donkdowndonedied

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

You're only half right.

They don't like winning players on Bodog/Bovada -- that is true.

However, the monkeys answering the phone in the Philippines don't know or care how difficult I am to deal with, but just have their set of rules and the scripts that they read from. Whether I am easygoing or difficult, this situation would still be playing out the same. It's not like a small business owner who decides he doesn't want my money, even if I am willing to be a regular customer. This is just bureaucracy I'm running into.

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You think the "notes" field ni the database paints you as a nice guy? My guess is it is full of disparaging remarks. I'm sure the phone ops skim it over when they take your call. To think ti is just a problem with simple bureaucracy is a bit facepalm.

It is their business. For some reason I doubt you get your money in with negative value except against other poker players. I'd guess you are possibly rude or borderline obnoxious on the phone and have probably been so numerous times. Yet you think this privately owned business should give you more because they choose to do it for other players. I was hoping someone would call you out for the level of entitlement you feel.

In the past few years I've realized the types who scream about socialism and such really don't care about wealth redistribution as an ideal .. They're not against it on morale grounds, even if they claim to be. They just hate the idea of someone getting something that they don't get. I've seen this so many times in my life and it disgusts me.

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I don't get how he even gets a 1/2 right.
I'm officially done adressing him forever,
(now hates people w/down syndrome? )

But, he has obv never played on a poker site, so his opinion means as much as anyone else that doesn't play.
Every site wants players,
I've never of a player not being welcome because he is too good at poker.
This isn't BJ.

And as for this post??? I don't agree either.
How many times have you been on a call w a Customer service rep, who should have all kinds of notes on you, who doesn't have them, or hadn't noticed them.

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Originally Posted by donkdowndonedied

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

You're only half right.

They don't like winning players on Bodog/Bovada -- that is true.

However, the monkeys answering the phone in the Philippines don't know or care how difficult I am to deal with, but just have their set of rules and the scripts that they read from. Whether I am easygoing or difficult, this situation would still be playing out the same. It's not like a small business owner who decides he doesn't want my money, even if I am willing to be a regular customer. This is just bureaucracy I'm running into.

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You think the "notes" field ni the database paints you as a nice guy? My guess is it is full of disparaging remarks. I'm sure the phone ops skim it over when they take your call. To think ti is just a problem with simple bureaucracy is a bit facepalm.

It is their business. For some reason I doubt you get your money in with negative value except against other poker players. I'd guess you are possibly rude or borderline obnoxious on the phone and have probably been so numerous times. Yet you think this privately owned business should give you more because they choose to do it for other players. I was hoping someone would call you out for the level of entitlement you feel.

In the past few years I've realized the types who scream about socialism and such really don't care about wealth redistribution as an ideal .. They're not against it on morale grounds, even if they claim to be. They just hate the idea of someone getting something that they don't get. I've seen this so many times in my life and it disgusts me.

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I have had very little interaction with customer service prior to this, especially recently, so this wasn't specifically aimed at me. In fact, had they truly hated me from reading the notes, they wouldn't have offered me ANYTHING. Remember, they offered me a reload bonus up to $100, but my real issue was that it was a "one time exception" and going forward I would have the same problems.

You keep saying I felt that they "should" give me something. Wrong. As you said, they are a privately owned business, and are not obligated to give me anything, beyond providing a fair game and paying out the balance in my account. However, while they have their rights as a private business, I have my rights as a customer -- that is, not to continue playing there if I didn't like the situation. Therefore, I felt there was nothing wrong with calling up and asking for a bonus that is essentially equitable to others I know with similar playing habits & results. If they refused, then I would have to evaluate whether I wanted to continue playing there.

In this case, my biggest problem was the fact that I was shut out from talking to a manager. That should never happen in any business. You should always be able to reach someone in a position of authority at least one time -- provided you allowed the lower-level employees to take a crack at solving the problem first. That's Customer Service 101. If you empower the lower-level employees to completely shut out the customer from reaching management, then you create a situation that is ripe for abuse.

Anyway, I don't need to speculate anymore because I had a long conversation with a manager there last night, which I will describe in my next post.

About 8pm last night, I got a call from someone relatively high up in the Bovada organization. I could tell right off the bat that I was talking to an intelligent and logical individual, and whether he gave me satisfaction to my concerns or not, at least I would feel that my questions would be courteously answered.

This guy was located in the Philippines, but was Canadian. The customer service people I had been speaking with report directly to him.

I won't reveal everything he told me, because I'm not sure how much he was telling me in semi-confidence and how much he wouldn't mind being posted on the forums. I will try to be as detailed as possible without being revealing more than appropriate.

- The Philippines-based customer service department I reached is NOT an outsourced call center. These are actual Bodog/Bovada employees, and they report to him. They are supposed to be empowered to make proper decisions on their own. However, they are also supposed to handle these calls with care, and are supposed to contact management if there seems to be a legitimate problem that can't be solved. For example, if some idiot calls up and demands to speak to management because he keeps getting rivered, and is screaming "OMG RIGGED!!!111", they are supposed to keep that garbage away from management. However, if a customer like me calls up with a concern/question that seems legitimate, they are supposed to either solve it to the customer's satisfaction, or get management's attention that it was not solved. These customer service reps failed to do this, and he said he would get that corrected for the future.

- The customer service reps noted my account regarding the content of the conversations, and he read my posts here on PokerFraudAlert. I did not direct him here, but someone apparently told him about this thread. He said that my post "was an accurate representation of what happened, as the customer service notes match what you wrote almost perfectly", and that it was "not appropriately handled" on their end. He said that, again, this would be addressed, and sounded sincere about it. He said that Bovada/Bodog has people reading forums and bring things to attention of management when they notice potential problems with service.

- The customer service supervisor were trying to handle this problem in the way they thought was correct, but were not flexible enough. They were correct in that managers are not sitting around able to take calls, but were incorrect in completely shutting me out from reaching one. They were correct in that bonuses are account-specific and are tied to a variety of factors, but were incorrect in not more carefully examining my account and seeing what is fair to give me. He said that it appeared they just offered something generic to me without actually examining my account history, which was a mistake.

- I offered to give Bodog/Bovada a verified account here for player concerns. He said he would pass on that offer to the people who read the forums, but wasn't sure if they'd want to. He agreed that the "Bovada Service" account here was likely bogus.

- He gave me a better bonus -- not the excellent 40% thing Beerandpoker got, but something smaller that I thought was fair. He agreed that they will look at my account again in the future if I continue to completely get shut out of promotions like I have been.


Overall, the guy was very nice and on-the-ball, and I believe he was really going to attempt to fix some of these customer service issues, and wasn't just jerking me off with what I wanted to hear. I imagine that training a third-world call center is difficult, much like in the movie "Outsourced", so I can understand how stuff like this happens, and how frustrating it must be for the guys trying to manage those employees.

I'm going down to Western Union to deposit slightly less than 2k today, and we'll see if I can get it through without being suspected as a romance scam victim.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

You keep saying I felt that they "should" give me something. Wrong. As you said, they are a privately owned business, and are not obligated to give me anything, beyond providing a fair game and paying out the balance in my account. However, while they have their rights as a private business, I have my rights as a customer -- that is, not to continue playing there if I didn't like the situation. Therefore, I felt there was nothing wrong with calling up and asking for a bonus that is essentially equitable to others I know with similar playing habits & results. If they refused, then I would have to evaluate whether I wanted to continue playing there.

In this case, my biggest problem was the fact that I was shut out from talking to a manager. That should never happen in any business. You should always be able to reach someone in a position of authority at least one time -- provided you allowed the lower-level employees to take a crack at solving the problem first. That's Customer Service 101. If you empower the lower-level employees to completely shut out the customer from reaching management, then you create a situation that is ripe for abuse.

Anyway, I don't need to speculate anymore because I had a long conversation with a manager there last night, which I will describe in my next post.

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If you think that other people are receiving benefits/promos and you are not and you have such a problem with it that you call up and complain, then you OBVIOUSLY feel they should give you something that they didn't. The fact that you don't like the sound of it doesn't mean you can redefine should. It doesn't mean they are under a contractual obligation, we both know that.

Maybe I am wrong about the notes. It sounded like you had called up multiple times. Thats more than most people have.

I disagree about not being able to speak to a manager. Some people just feel entitled to be able to speak to a manager and waste the manager's time. If I had employee's handling customer service, I'd be fine with them having some filters. That would be part of their job. Customer Service 101 ? Fuck that, my time is too valuable for dealing with some whiney guy that doesn't even really make my site money. Oh well, people like you tend to get more results than others, I can't argue with that.