Quote:
Originally Posted by mulva
This makes me cringe more than the visual of him having some tbreesome. His kids have to be so ready for dad to just hand the team over and quit making himself look foolish .
Quote:
Originally Posted by mulva
This makes me cringe more than the visual of him having some tbreesome. His kids have to be so ready for dad to just hand the team over and quit making himself look foolish .
Kinda surprised this is your takeQuote:
Originally Posted by BCRQuote:
Originally Posted by mulva
This makes me cringe more than the visual of him having some tbreesome. His kids have to be so ready for dad to just hand the team over and quit making himself look foolish .
The guy is 77 years old and mixing it up. Nobody is gonna remember any of this 6 months from now.
You’d rather he was home watching Vanna turn letters & eating toaster pizza?
Or posting on an 8th tier forum?
Go out loud and don’t worry about the kids. They got the silver spoon. Fuck them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SanlmarKinda surprised this is your takeQuote:
Originally Posted by BCR
The guy is 77 years old and mixing it up. Nobody is gonna remember any of this 6 months from now.
You’d rather he was home watching Vanna turn letters & eating toaster pizza?
Or posting on an 8th tier forum?
Go out loud and don’t worry about the kids. They got the silver spoon. Fuck them.
Yeah I guess we are different on this one. I’m all for going hard until the grave. Like i’d applaud skydiving or something. Whenever I feel like someone is being laughed at rather than with, it makes me cringe. I never want to be that dude getting laughed at. but that’s probably my own hang up.
We all worry too much about people think. If he was 37 it would be okay?
Guy went to a rub & tug joint whose employees prolly don’t speak English much less follow Boston sports.
They had no idea who he was.
He had no other out that was gonna give him a tug and silence. No matter who he called with his billions somebody was apt to kiss and tell.
Some yocal sherriff wanted to grandstand instead of quickly rescuing the women. That’s just a bad beat.
His choice really seems inspired in a way
If the reports I read are right, he got a bj the first day, then a hand job the next.
Just strikes me as a little weird, the order. Like, handie the first day then oral the next seems like a nice progression. BJ then HJ seems regressive.
imagine going through life believing this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
I love how all the autists on social media taking shots at this guy are now all moralists. The sick shit these influencers with a platform do in their private lives are 10x (conservative) "worse" than paying for sex.
Sanlmar has the best takes in this thread
Explain how my statement was incorrect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidewinderimagine going through life believing this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
You think that those Vegas jerk shops aren't hugely supported by human trafficking?
https://reason.com/blog/2019/02/25/f...lor-sex-stingsQuote:
Originally Posted by Dan DruffExplain how my statement was incorrect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidewinder
You think that those Vegas jerk shops aren't hugely supported by human trafficking?
Ive known people in the asian spa business and heard first hand how it works .. These places are often owned by women, always ran by the 'mamas' who often have ownership interests.
The girls often live on site especially in the 24hr places and the girls often have gambling problems so I guess they are trapped in a way.
I've heard of girls without leaks saving up and buying a place from a retiring owner. Its basically the opposite of what you seem to think.
Live your life in a trance with the rest of the sheeple if you want but what I just told you is the truth.
This is commerce and they provide a valuable service to the community. You should look into sex crime rates where prostitution is legal.
Or live your life like little bo peep and the rest of the recreationally outraged.
Prosecutors and the govt are liars. I can't believe we are having this conversation. It's like telling a 40 yo there is no Santa Clause.
Druff the humanitarian
So all of these sex trafficking stories are just made up?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidewinderhttps://reason.com/blog/2019/02/25/f...lor-sex-stingsQuote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
Ive known people in the asian spa business and heard first hand how it works .. These places are often owned by women, always ran by the 'mamas' who often have ownership interests.
The girls often live on site especially in the 24hr places and the girls often have gambling problems so I guess they are trapped in a way.
I've heard of girls without leaks saving up and buying a place from a retiring owner. Its basically the opposite of what you seem to think.
Live your life in a trance with the rest of the sheeple if you want but what I just told you is the truth.
This is commerce and they provide a valuable service to the community. You should look into sex crime rates where prostitution is legal.
Or live your life like little bo peep and the rest of the recreationally outraged.
Prosecutors and the govt are liars. I can't believe we are having this conversation. It's like telling a 40 yo there is no Santa Clause.
Why are you bringing a prostitution legality debate into this? That has nothing to do with my point.
You are the one being naive here. Just because a few of the girls are there by choice and go on to manage/own the place doesn't mean that there isn't a big sex trafficking problem supplying much of the labor.
What story are you going to tell me next? That they're saving up for college?
The problem with underground sex industry isn't the sex itself, nor is it the johns. It's all of the crime (sex trafficking, underage prostitution, violence, scams) that goes along with it.
Vietnamese women do give good massages.
I'm just shocked about the lack of discretion, the guy can afford the upmost level of discretion and still chooses to walk into a rub n tug
:lol4
Nice....nice....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanlmar
I guess this is true. Certainly true about myself. Some weird mixture of ego and social anxiety. Like if I got busted in the rub and rug I’m slightly embarrassed if I’m Kraft. But that dancing tape, I’d have paid $10 million to buy every copy and had my security confiscate every phone. I made a post years ago on one of these sites about a horrible wedding toast I made under the influence of alcohol and mushrooms when I was like 19 or 20. I went on for like 15 minutes and for some reason my toast morphed into some extisential babbling where I quoted bible verses while swearing.
I STILL am mortified it’s in some closet somewhere. That marriage ended after like 25 years and my first thought wasn’t how sad it was, their kids were grown and in college. My first thought was I wonder if she throws the wedding tape out. I grew up with a mentally ill mother as an only child. My guess is my neurosis and strong aversion to public embarrassment sprung from me hiding her bizarre behavior to the best of my ability. I guess seeing Kraft’s somewhat erratic behavior as of late makes me think he’s somewhat off in old age, and I view it through the lens of his kids should step in. I’ve never claimed to be well-adjusted.
I always wonder with celebs how much they care about the "negative" press like Kraft is receiving.
Look at the Kardashians. Do they give a shit that Kim K became famous for a sex tape? Or that her sisters were posting images with next to no clothing well before they turned 18?
If you live in a small town sure the word would get around and you would get high fives from men, and nasty stares from women for a year or so.
But Kraft? I don't think he cares that much other than maybe his hot girlfriend leaving him. Which will be quickly replaced.
There are probably a ton of industries where the employees are mainly recent immigrants that involve some level of trafficking and “involuntary” servitude. A few examples off the top of my head are Asian nail salons, nannies and Mexican food cart servers. I doubt you could go a day, especially living in So Cal, without contributing to human trafficking in some capacity, using the bar set up by the likes of Mumbkes and Druff.
All this moralizing is completely fake and self serving. And in the Kraft case This is all about politicians going after low hanging fruit to racket up political points, like it is most of the time when this kind of stuff happens.
Did you read the link I posted? It is completely consistent with what I have been told. I know a girl that has worked in the business for long time in at least 3 different states and it all works the same according to her. Believe what you want. You seem close minded and have some ridiculous premise which is not only unproven, but seemingly unfalsifiable. I don't know if it's your intellectual arrogance, a lack of critical thinking, naivety or stubbornness that comes with old age or what but you are wrong, at least about message parlours.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan DruffSo all of these sex trafficking stories are just made up?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidewinder
Why are you bringing a prostitution legality debate into this? That has nothing to do with my point.
You are the one being naive here. Just because a few of the girls are there by choice and go on to manage/own the place doesn't mean that there isn't a big sex trafficking problem supplying much of the labor.
What story are you going to tell me next? That they're saving up for college?
The problem with underground sex industry isn't the sex itself, nor is it the johns. It's all of the crime (sex trafficking, underage prostitution, violence, scams) that goes along with it.
From what I understand, there really is a trafficked sex industry, including underage girls. But those aren’t the women who work in Asian strip mall rub and tugs. They work for sophisticated crime syndicates, are staged out of nice hotel rooms and apartments, and johns are vetted so stings like the one above would never work.
Whatever your opinions on whether or not there is a sex trafficking industry, I am pretty sure Sidewinders perception of what is going on in this instance is more accurate than Druffs.
Exactly what I was thinking.Quote:
Originally Posted by verminaard
A brick & mortar rub n tug isn't hiring 14 year olds they shipped over from Asia.
There definitely is a sex trafficking industry (unfortunately). And of course they are likely very elaborate setups as you mentioned and aren't caught as often.
It's easy for them to throw around "trafficking" at peak news coverage to capitalize on the sensationalism, then back-pedal like they did in the article I posted when no one is paying attention. Repeat and rinse this and you end up with a nation of people brainwashed/gaslighted/whatever into believing some narrative not only **not** based in reality, but completely lacking of supporting evidence.Quote:
Originally Posted by simpdog
I don't know why it's so hard to believe there is a billion dollar industry based on erections and orgasms, and there are **PLENTY** of willing participants on both sides of the counter. Is a man's penis so disgusting that one can only be paid for sexual services if it's against their will?
Human "trafficking"... whatever...
When my wife did OB in east LA she said a lot of girls would come in who were obvious prostitutes who were probably trafficked. Some were underage. They always came in “accompanied” by male chaperones/pimps who were probably involved in organized crime, who never left the women alone and spoke for them. None of these women would ever talk even if they were given the opportunity, so there was really nothing to do but give them the best medical care possible and hope for the best.
Needless to say none of these girls were working out of Asian rub and tugs in strip malls.
I don't know anything about this, but it would seem risky to use traffic girls this publicly. There's also some suspicion that police is on to massage parlors being at times used for sex work.
Oh and only thing i was wondering that if you're worth 6.6 billion there has to be ways to handle your business more discreetly. But maybe Kraft doing this is an additional thrill.
If it's such a real problem, why give us this fictional narrative?Quote:
Originally Posted by verminaard
Reminds me of that Jussie guy - if violent white racism is so prevalent why did this dickhead have to fabricate?
Shouldn't the endless occurrences of violent racism and human trafficking drown us in disgust and horror, negating the reason to make shit up?
Because it was close to his house, no appointment necessary, and he thought it was anonymous?Quote:
Originally Posted by gimmick
If you think that story was fictional then I envy you your naivety and innocence.Quote:
Originally Posted by SidewinderIf it's such a real problem, why give us this fictional narrative?Quote:
Originally Posted by verminaard
Reminds me of that Jussie guy - if violent white racism is so prevalent why did this dickhead have to fabricate?
Shouldn't the endless occurrences of violent racism and human trafficking drown us in disgust and horror, negating the reason to make shit up?
For those of us on planet reality, imagine I told you the city of Los Angeles had millions of poor, mostly illegal, immigrants from Latin America who lived in highly concentrated, ethnic ghettos; and in these ghettos there existed a thriving multinational, underground economy of human and illegal drug smuggling controlled by violent cartels. Then I told you that in such a scenario there was NOT prostitution of trafficked girls, and you should rightly tell me I was delusional.
Anyways, to address your question, the idea that exploitation and suffering of vulnerable populations isn't an inevitable part of society is a very novel one. For pretty much all societies through all time it was accepted as the way it is.
The Western world in the last couple centuries is pretty much the first time in the history of humanity a society has attempted to eliminate and alleviate such suffering on any meaningful scale, with very uneven success so far. For good or bad, the status quo seems to be that such behavior is shunned in the native population, but permitted in ethnic communities as long as the abuse is kept "in house." The recent British Pakistani grooming gang scandals for example probably only received the attention and scrutiny that it has because they trafficked in native English women. If they had kept it in house and only trafficked in brown women, the gangs probably would have been able to continue without drawing scrutiny.
All that being said, I don't think that is mostly what is going on in strip mall Asian rub n' tugs. I think that is mostly adult laborers from a more pragmatic culture than our own, that accepts the banalities of life, willingly tugging off fat old men for money. And when they are done for the day they wash their hands well with soap (and clean out any orifices that may have been used) and go about their lives pretty normally.
It's definitely not what's going on.Quote:
Originally Posted by verminaard
As for the rest of it, who knows. I don't trust liars, thieves and manipulators and that's who keeps talking about it. They (the govt.) dont lie about everything but the will lie about anything. Good luck figuring out what the truth is.
It will be interesting to see how this all plays out and what all Kraft new about this lil operation.
That Robert Kraft is krafty he gets around he's krafty he's always down.
I was thinking there must be some equivalent to how drugs are handled after a certain level of wealth.Quote:
Originally Posted by SidewinderBecause it was close to his house, no appointment necessary, and he thought it was anonymous?Quote:
Originally Posted by gimmick
Like having someone else get them, hold them, shop doctors till you get scripts you want and then topping off at having your personal doctor like MJ. And for drugs the Kraft version would be that Canadian mayor that got caught smoking crack on tape.
This is going to end up being one heck of a story.
In the end there are 10 Spas that we’re under investigation. These 10 fall into three different counties in Florida St Luice, Martin and Palm Beach. From what I’m told they have been looking into these ten places for a few months. They gathered statements. They gathered license plates and photos of people coming and going. They sent some cops in to see what goes on. They went for a wire and got video survalience set up after probable cause was established and from what I’ve been told in total they got about 200 guys on video between the 3-5 days they were up at the 10 locations. They also have many low level managers they are going to “roll up” to get the “real” targets who get the money and import export the girls. That’s the end game on this as it should be, the $$ and the trafficing.
What’s interesting is each county has its own DA. The Palm Beach DA wanted to make a giant spectacle out of this and get political gains. That’s why they have had press conference after press conference and interview after interview. In the big conference on Monday he said (paraphrasing) “in palm beach county everyone is treated the same” and “I can’t say when the rest will be released”. There have also been statements that other counties may not press charges. There has been a few names here and there from the other counties. From what I’m told there is a state political figure who is caught up in this. what’s causing some real issues for the other DA’s is there is supposedly a high number of Cops and Firefighters on the list. The locals can’t get them out of the trap and they are basically asking the DA’s to just not press charges and let the John’s off. Now these are just the 200 who are on video survalince. The other interesting part is they ended up pulling you over afterwards and scanning your drivers license. This is how they were able to write probable cause for the arrests - they know the person on the video was the person in the drivers license. This is why Bob Kraft is completely fucked as far as getting out from this. It’s him 1000%
The other part of this is they have many hundreds if not a thousand+ of others who they more or less know were going for a tug based on the recon work and running license plates but they can’t get them on charges because they don’t have Full PC....... but there are rumors of some very well known people that cops will be trading stories about. The other thing was the powers that be were horrified with the sheer number and volume of these places and how many were using them. Could have left the cameras on for weeks and expanded out to several hundred other places..... could have busted thousands of people doing this. Scary big - and if I had to guess they aren’t done down here. There will be books/movies on this.
Wow.
What the fuck.
If true, daly, that sounds like the most egregious, unconstitutional way to go about busting prostitution rings. Almost sounds as if they were collecting blackmail evidence.
Interesting to see how this plays out in 2020....
When I lived in Los Angeles there was probably 20 of these places within reasonable walking distance from my house. Most big cities are like this. It doesn't take very advanced arithmetic to figure out the immense scope of this industry.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daly
All my knowledge about cops busting prostitutes and John's comes from watching cops, with that said, I never saw any cops wait until the sex acts were performed to make the arrests.......maybe things are different in Florida......it is the dong of America after all....no offense Florida....
I don’t think there is a political thing going here. I don’t think they were targeting anyone specific. I also don’t think anything unconstitutional happened either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mintjewlips
Personaly I have a bit of an issue with the grandstanding and moral high ground routine at the moment. The message is “we are getting serious about trafficing”. These poor poor women and children were victimized by old rich men. In the meantime this went on for months. They setup cameras with a 3-5 day window and then kept them going to whole time. If this was really about the poor women and children they would have filmed the first two encounters and then sent in the swat team to go get them. It took them three plus weeks to turn in the paperwork and go in and shut these places down.
They closed down the illegal drug store and are busting some unlucky people who bought a joint.
If it’s just the 200 John’s picking up third degree misdemeanors and 5 or do middle management gangster types that go down there should be outrage and that’s what they are saying they got.
Nice post with lots of good information.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daly
Even though decriminalizing prostitution would be a good thing, the fact is that under the present laws, patronizing these joints contributes to increased trafficking.
If law enforcement and firefighter johns get to skate completely without indictment, that kind of double standard would be totally unacceptable. If law enforcement flashed badges to get free services, does that constitute corruption and/or extortion? I'm not a lawyer, however.
Kraft was never going to get off on the video evidence. His only hope would be that all the procedural T's weren't crossed and the I's dotted during the sting.
Kraft hired Jack Goldberger who represented scumbag serial pedophile Jeffrey Epstein and got him a great deal.
Having said that, Kraft is probably eligible for accelerated rehabilitation and if he just admits guilt, takes the trafficking/prostitution class, and pays the fines and court costs, he will have no criminal record.
Guilty or innocent in the courts will have no effect on his NFL punishment. He's looking at 4+ games plus a hefty fine. I think that draft pick losses are highly unlikely.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnCommodeNice post with lots of good information.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daly
Even though decriminalizing prostitution would be a good thing, the fact is that under the present laws, patronizing these joints contributes to increased trafficking.
If law enforcement and firefighter johns get to skate completely without indictment, that kind of double standard would be totally unacceptable. If law enforcement flashed badges to get free services, does that constitute corruption and/or extortion? I'm not a lawyer, however.
Kraft was never going to get off on the video evidence. His only hope would be that all the procedural T's weren't crossed and the I's dotted during the sting.
Kraft hired Jack Goldberger who represented scumbag serial pedophile Jeffrey Epstein and got him a great deal.
Having said that, Kraft is probably eligible for accelerated rehabilitation and if he just admits guilt, takes the trafficking/prostitution class, and pays the fines and court costs, he will have no criminal record.
Guilty or innocent in the courts will have no effect on his NFL punishment. He's looking at 4+ games plus a hefty fine. I think that draft pick losses are highly unlikely.
Kraft is fucked in the court of public opinion and thus the NFL. There is no getting out ot this for him. But to be clear he is “only” being accused of solicitation and it’s the lowest of the low. People are talking like kraft is going to do jail time over this. He isn’t getting anywhere near a jail cell and if Palm Beach county thinks that is happening he just won’t ever step foot in Florida again. Kraft is going to end up sending in season ticket money for 2 seats in his 70K seat stadium and taking 10 hours of a class. Let us also remember he’s already donated hundreds of thousands of dollars in the area.... he’s going to have all sorts of political help on this.
Take the word trafficking out of this as it pertains to Kraft. He’s nowhere near it and anyone saying he is has no idea what they are talking about. He’s “guilty” of something, but this isn’t it.
The unfortunate thing here is the focus should be on getting the management types to roll over on the power brokers where the $$ was going to. Instead it’s a spectacle of nothing.
Nah. I dont know a single sane person that thinks the whole "trafficking" angle is anything but LOL dishonest media and local govt. On this site the only one buying that narrative is Mumbles, so enough said. The NFL may come down hard on him because that is something they like to do with the Patriots, but I think this entire thing is a nothing burger in the court of public opinion. If by "public opinion" you mean CNN and twitter, than yeah, but once you realize the MSM and twitter actually represents a fringe, minority opinion on most matters, than you are can see reality.Quote:
Originally Posted by DalyQuote:
Originally Posted by JohnCommode
Kraft is fucked in the court of public opinion and thus the NFL. There is no getting out ot this for him. But to be clear he is “only” being accused of solicitation and it’s the lowest of the low. People are talking like kraft is going to do jail time over this. He isn’t getting anywhere near a jail cell and if Palm Beach county thinks that is happening he just won’t ever step foot in Florida again. Kraft is going to end up sending in season ticket money for 2 seats in his 70K seat stadium and taking 10 hours of a class. Let us also remember he’s already donated hundreds of thousands of dollars in the area.... he’s going to have all sorts of political help on this.
Take the word trafficking out of this as it pertains to Kraft. He’s nowhere near it and anyone saying he is has no idea what they are talking about. He’s “guilty” of something, but this isn’t it.
The unfortunate thing here is the focus should be on getting the management types to roll over on the power brokers where the $$ was going to. Instead it’s a spectacle of nothing.
I never said that Kraft was involved with trafficking, dumbass. He’s just a customer of the jerk shop biz. But you are deluding yourself that women aren’t trafficked by these businesses. And Druff also mentioned trafficking. It’s an issue that is agreed upon by all sides in the media, from Fox News to MSNBC among mainstream outlets.Quote:
Originally Posted by verminaardNah. I dont know a single sane person that thinks the whole "trafficking" angle is anything but LOL dishonest media and local govt. On this site the only one buying that narrative is Mumbles, so enough said. The NFL may come down hard on him because that is something they like to do with the Patriots, but I think this entire thing is a nothing burger in the court of public opinion. If by "public opinion" you mean CNN and twitter, than yeah, but once you realize the MSM and twitter actually represents a fringe, minority opinion on most matters, than you are can see reality.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daly
https://youtu.be/Ol7Wwpzkm4w
The media isn’t in too big a hurry to report this, because it doesn’t fit the “trafficking” narrative, but apparently the women that serviced Kraft were all 40+, which is pretty typical for those kind of places.
The news report mentions that the older women running the shop serviced Kraft, but that doesn’t mean that they also don’t traffick younger women who also service customers, which experts from various agencies, both in law enforcement and non-profit aid and intervention agencies, have publicly reported. So, where are you getting your information to make the general statement that I have bolded?Quote:
Originally Posted by verminaard