Exactly who didn’t know this change was coming?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
As I said last year 8000 state legislators are shitting themselves. Nothing is more polarizing.
States rights is is as it should be. That is the Republican spin.
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Exactly who didn’t know this change was coming?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
As I said last year 8000 state legislators are shitting themselves. Nothing is more polarizing.
States rights is is as it should be. That is the Republican spin.
Other than "MUH DEMOCRACY" liberals who have listed "loss of a woman's right to choose" among the evils they claim will happen under "fascist conservative rule", there wasn't much serious belief that an overturn of Roe v Wade would happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by SanlmarExactly who didn’t know this change was coming?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
It seems that this is being done from a states' rights standpoint, and I understand it. Indeed, as I mentioned before, several states are already violating the spirit of Roe anyway, so why not just take the fed out of it?
Still, this is a very very bad look for Republicans politically. Big mistake.
Muh readsQuote:
Originally Posted by Dan DruffOther than "MUH DEMOCRACY" liberals who have listed "loss of a woman's right to choose" among the evils they claim will happen under "fascist conservative rule", there wasn't much serious belief that an overturn of Roe v Wade would happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanlmar
It seems that this is being done from a states' rights standpoint, and I understand it. Indeed, as I mentioned before, several states are already violating the spirit of Roe anyway, so why not just take the fed out of it?
Still, this is a very very bad look for Republicans politically. Big mistake.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanlmar
It is outrageous that this draft opinion pertaining to Roe v. Wade got leaked. It should have been sent to mar-a-lago where we already know top secret documents can be safely and securely stored. The Washington D.C. media swamp wins again.
I don’t see what everyone is so worried about, sure abortions may become illegal, but all these butthurt women seem to be forgetting that they live in america, where everyone has FREEDOM. Instead they wanna cry about trivial things like bodily autonomy. Plus Ben Shapiro says it will become an issue for each state to decide, like marijuana.
This country is great because instead of offering societal needs to everyone, it instead gets privatized so that middlemen can get their own cut of the profit. Safe abortion will still exist, except now it will be “classier” (more expensive).
Sure poor people of color may get fucked over, but their children are still valuable….for the school to prison pipeline. The last 15 years has seen a big crackdown on illegal immigration and the loss of exploiting them for their labor. america needs to turn inwards and use our extensive network of jails and prisons to take on the role of harvesting fruits and vegetables, digging ditches, building roads, etc. Its really the cycle of life, this is freedom.
It was her body, her choice when she decided to get knocked up. After being knocked up there are now two bodies and not her choice to terminate the second body. Very simple.Quote:
Originally Posted by nunbeaterI would wager that that happens so infrequently that it actually is rareQuote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
but again, her body her choice dude
Women have to realize that they not qualified to make decisions regarding their body. Only dirty old men who have a history of sexually harassing, raping women can do that.
Thanks to this ruling most Republicans will be voted out of office.
https://api.time.com/wp-content/uplo...0&h=628&crop=1
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheXFactor
7 white men made Roe v Wade the law of the land.
There really are no words for how dumb you are.Quote:
Originally Posted by splitthis
Of course they clearly dropped this leak last night to sway GOP primaries in Ohio and Indiana where every fucking candidate is pro-life. You’ve got it all figured out. Now voters will have to decide whether to vote for the guy who is for overturning Roe v Wade or the other contenders who also all support overturning Roe v Wade. You should get a job in politics. You’ve mastered this shit grandma.
you pushed forced jabs, you have no credibility here, fuck off to [REDACTED]Quote:
Originally Posted by BCRThere really are no words for how dumb you are.Quote:
Originally Posted by splitthis
Of course they clearly dropped this leak last night to sway GOP primaries in Ohio and Indiana where every fucking candidate is pro-life. You’ve got it all figured out. Now voters will have to decide whether to vote for the guy who is for overturning Roe v Wade or the other contenders who also all support overturning Roe v Wade. You should get a job in politics. You’ve mastered this shit grandma.
crazy leftist blue checkmark goes mask off on her racism, gets bullied off twitter
:lol2
Where is Elon when you need himQuote:
Originally Posted by dwai
crazy leftist blue checkmark goes mask off on her racism, gets bullied off twitter
:lol2
That's the reason why all but the most deranged GOP politicians aren't celebrating this; even those that initially were have changed course.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan DruffOther than "MUH DEMOCRACY" liberals who have listed "loss of a woman's right to choose" among the evils they claim will happen under "fascist conservative rule", there wasn't much serious belief that an overturn of Roe v Wade would happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanlmar
It seems that this is being done from a states' rights standpoint, and I understand it. Indeed, as I mentioned before, several states are already violating the spirit of Roe anyway, so why not just take the fed out of it?
Still, this is a very very bad look for Republicans politically. Big mistake.
I think it's the biggest imaginable gift to galvanize the left; the Democrats seemed down for the count, marred by dysfunction and horrible leadership.
What a lifeline for a truly shitty, mismanaged party.
democrats getting desperate with this "leak"Quote:
Originally Posted by Sloppy JoeThat's the reason why all but the most deranged GOP politicians aren't celebrating this; even those that initially were have changed course.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
I think it's the biggest imaginable gift to galvanize the left; the Democrats seemed down for the count, marred by dysfunction and horrible leadership.
What a lifeline for a truly shitty, mismanaged party.
distraction distraction distraction, don't focus on how shitty Biden has been doing, don't focus on the 33 billion to another shit country deep in corrupt politician money, anything but the bumbling idiot in the white house
:lol2
"LEAK"
:lol2
Hmmm, really?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan DruffOther than "MUH DEMOCRACY" liberals who have listed "loss of a woman's right to choose" among the evils they claim will happen under "fascist conservative rule", there wasn't much serious belief that an overturn of Roe v Wade would happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanlmar
It seems that this is being done from a states' rights standpoint, and I understand it. Indeed, as I mentioned before, several states are already violating the spirit of Roe anyway, so why not just take the fed out of it?
Still, this is a very very bad look for Republicans politically. Big mistake.
Trump in 2016 promised to overturn Roe v. Wade in a presidential debate.
Wherein lay the surprise exactly? Where is the Republican failure?Quote:
"That will happen automatically, in my opinion, because I am putting pro-life justices on the court," Trump said. "I will say this: It will go back to the states, and the states will then make a determination."
Whether you agree or disagree with the issue this outcome was telegraphed pretty clearly to many of us. Candidly, I stole some catchers signs early on from George Will.
In a world where Conservatism doesn’t mean anything anymore George Will is my boy.
So now democracy will take over at the state level…, or anarchy. Don’t kid yourself, the leader of the Republican Party will have his finger firmly pressed on those at the state level. A reminder of who is running the show.
I’m not saying I agree or disagree with abortion. I’m telling you how it is. … once again.
You don't think it was leaked?Quote:
Originally Posted by dwaidemocrats getting desperate with this "leak"Quote:
Originally Posted by Sloppy Joe
distraction distraction distraction, don't focus on how shitty Biden has been doing, don't focus on the 33 billion to another shit country deep in corrupt politician money, anything but the bumbling idiot in the white house
:lol2
"LEAK"
:lol2
:noQuote:
Originally Posted by nunbeaterI would wager that that happens so infrequently that it actually is rareQuote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
but again, her body her choice dude
I should clarify "safe, legal, and rare" though. Believe it or not, that term was coined by Bill Clinton in 1992, which was the last time there was a serious challenge to abortion rights. Clinton explained that it's important to maintain legal abortion in the US, in order to provide a safe option for women seeking it (or otherwise they seek dangerous back-alley abortions, as seen pre-1973), but that abortion should be "rare" -- not referring to how often it happens, but in that it only takes place under circumstances where no other reasonable choice exists.
The 1973 ruling went as follows:
Roe was slightly modified in 1992 (at the time Clinton, not yet President, was commenting on it), to change the trimester standard to that of fetal viability. This is very important because modern left-wing interpretations of Roe go completely against the spirit of that.Quote:
In January 1973, the Supreme Court issued a 7–2 decision that protects a pregnant woman's right to choose whether to have an abortion. It also ruled that this right is not absolute and must be balanced against governments' interests in protecting women's health and prenatal life.
The Court resolved this balancing test by tying state regulation of abortion to the three trimesters of pregnancy: during the first trimester, governments could not prohibit abortions at all; during the second trimester, governments could require reasonable health regulations; during the third trimester, abortions could be prohibited entirely so long as the laws contained exceptions for cases when they were necessary to save the life or health of the mother.
The Court classified the right to choose to have an abortion as "fundamental", which required courts to evaluate challenged abortion laws under the "strict scrutiny" standard, the highest level of judicial review in the United States.
Basically, in 1992, Roe was upheld but changed to basically say, "Babies are viable outside the womb at 24 weeks. Unless the mom's life is in danger, or unless she is facing crippling health problems as a result of continuing the pregnancy, abortion is forbidden after 24 weeks."Quote:
Although upholding the "essential holding" in Roe, and recognizing that women have some constitutional liberty to terminate their pregnancies, they overturned the Roe trimester framework in favor of a viability analysis.
The Roe trimester framework completely forbade states from regulating abortion during the first trimester of pregnancy, permitted regulations designed to protect a woman's health in the second trimester, and permitted prohibitions on abortion during the third trimester (when the fetus becomes viable) under the justification of fetal protection, and so long as the life or health of the mother was not at risk.
It was also found that continuing advancements in medical technology had proven that a fetus could be considered viable at 23 or 24 weeks rather than at the 28 weeks previously understood by the Court in 1973's Roe.
That was supposed to be the standard going forward. Note that this held very close to the original 1973 standard, but was updated due to better medical understanding of fetal viability 19 years later.
However, the left has not kept so such standards, nor have they kept to the spirit of the 1973 and 1992 rulings affirming abortion rights. Instead, they have gone to an extreme, "If the woman wants to abort it at any time, she can" or "If a woman can find a single quack doctor to sign off on a late term abortion for any reason, she can".
How is this legal? The left exploited the "life or health" in danger portion of the 1973 and 1992 rulings. "Life" is not subjective -- either your life is in danger, or it isn't. However, the term "health", while meant in 1973 and 1992 to mean "realistic serious health consequences", has been perverted by the left to mean "any health consequence", including mental health. Therefore, a woman claiming to be depressed over the prospect of having a child would qualify for the "life or health" exceptions in these states,. Furthermore, mental health claims are not verifiable, thus using these as a standard is essentially a sham.
Some states like Oregon simply did away with the additional step of finding a quack doctor to sign off on "health effects" of the pregnancy, and simply let women get abortions at any time for any reason.
That was NOT the spirit of Roe v Wade, nor the 1992 update.
Had the public seen in 1973 (or even 1992) what abortion was going to become -- basically the legalized murder of full term babies in many states -- it never would have been legalized (or upheld) in the first place.
Strangely enough, striking down Roe would actually make it EASIER for states wanting full term "any reason" abortion. It basically would transfer abortion rights to the state level, which would embolden blue states to stop dancing around Roe and simply permit abortion whenever, up to and including the day before birth. (Some states like Virginia even permit the murder of babies AFTER birth, if they have major defects!)
If you really dig into what the left has done to abortion, it's shameful.
Oh, and I'm tired of the "late term abortion is rare, and late term abortion where the mom's life isn't in danger is even more rare" argument for why murder of viable babies should be okay.
Who cares how rare it is? Murder is extremely rare in the area of town where I live. Should that mean that people should be able to get away with murder here, provided only X happen per year? That's an insane argument. Murder should always be highly illegal, whether it's against humans outside the womb or viable-outside-the-womb babies who haven't been born yet.
If it's so "rare" to kill healthy babies where the mom's life isn't in danger, why not just outlaw that? The left doesn't want that. They want this absurd option on the table because they've gone so far off the deep end with "don't control women's bodies" that they support the murder of a viable human being to uphold that standard.
Look at the tweet I posted yesterday. It was a blue-checkmark liberal woman explaining that (anytime) abortion needs to be an option in order to free women from "abusive relationships" or "20 years of contact with the abuser". While this chick is just one person, notice the comments in response which roundly agree with her.
That's the true leftist thinking nowadays. There are plenty of young women who will kill their 8-months-delveoped baby if it means getting out of an unpleasant situation (either a bad relationship or financial) and starting life fresh. You're kidding yourself if you think otherwise. Legalizing even one of these murders is an absolute tragedy.
This is great of the Republicans to remind the voters they're worse than Democrats in almost every regard. Not one of those fucks on the SCOTUS gives a rat's ass about the unborn.
Some corporation must of done a study and concluded it would be more profitable to ban abortion and have a bunch of fractured families or some shit.
They need to arrest all the Justices in favor of this for lying under oath during their confirmation hearing.
I really don’t care one whit how SCOTUS feel about abortion. They are not elected officials. Interpret law or gtfo. I have a better idea gtfo & let citizens decide.Quote:
Originally Posted by Entropy
Our increasingly divided states will certainly have very conflicting laws. We are an increasingly divided nation.
You guys loved Covid issues so much. These are the kind of similar results you can look forward to. State rights.
We could get congress to pass national legislation. You would have to have been a crack baby if you think such a consensus would be possible any more.
As I said, “your feeble minds cannot envision what is coming”
Repeat after me, Druff. Donald J Trump is the leader of the Republican Party.
You’ve had a rough day but once you reaccept your leader into your heart everything you’ve witnessed flows as was preordained by HIM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SanlmarHmmm, really?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
Trump in 2016 promised to overturn Roe v. Wade in a presidential debate.
Wherein lay the surprise exactly? Where is the Republican failure?Quote:
"That will happen automatically, in my opinion, because I am putting pro-life justices on the court," Trump said. "I will say this: It will go back to the states, and the states will then make a determination."
Whether you agree or disagree with the issue this outcome was telegraphed pretty clearly to many of us. Candidly, I stole some catchers signs early on from George Will.
In a world where Conservatism doesn’t mean anything anymore George Will is my boy.
So now democracy will take over at the state level…, or anarchy. Don’t kid yourself, the leader of the Republican Party will have his finger firmly pressed on those at the state level. A reminder of who is running the show.
I’m not saying I agree or disagree with abortion. I’m telling you how it is. … once again.
This is where I come down on it for the post part. The republicans stance is “pro life” and they are unapologetically moving forward in that regard. I completely disagree with them but they feel like it’s the right thing and acting accordingly.
It’s the democrats that are completely full of shit. If codifying RvW was truly as important as they say they would have made it federal law at some point over the past 50 years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheXFactor
So this is incorrect. Abortion is not even in the top 5 issues that people vote on. So, you will be deeply disappointed. People care about the Economy and Crime way more. Democrats lose on those issues every time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DalyQuote:
Originally Posted by Sanlmar
This is where I come down on it for the post part. The republicans stance is “pro life” and they are unapologetically moving forward in that regard. I completely disagree with them but they feel like it’s the right thing and acting accordingly.
It’s the democrats that are completely full of shit. If codifying RvW was truly as important as they say they would have made it federal law at some point over the past 50 years.
They actually tried this a couple of years ago. They only got 46 votes in the Senate. So, even getting rid of the Filibuster wouldn't have made a difference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerveza FriaQuote:
Originally Posted by DalyQuote:
Originally Posted by Sanlmar
This is where I come down on it for the post part. The republicans stance is “pro life” and they are unapologetically moving forward in that regard. I completely disagree with them but they feel like it’s the right thing and acting accordingly.
It’s the democrats that are completely full of shit. If codifying RvW was truly as important as they say they would have made it federal law at some point over the past 50 years.
They actually tried this a couple of years ago. They only got 46 votes in the Senate. So, even getting rid of the Filibuster wouldn't have made a difference.
Right - but if it was the centerpiece of the platform and nothing was more important than a woman’s right to choose in their view it would have been done long ago.
Turns out it’s not as important at they think. They could use the nuclear option now. They could just simply not pass anything after the mid terms including raising the debt ceiling.
If it was “that important” it would happen.
This is a disaster for the Ukraine.
The democrat party loves killing babies even more than it loves killing Russians.
Volodymyr who?
I LEAN LEFT SO OBV I LEAN TOWARDS PRO CHOICE. BUT WHEN I HEAR FAR LEFTISTS ESSENTIALLY BRAG ABOUT THEIR 4TH ABORTION AND SAY THINGS LIKE "NOBODY WILL FORCE ME TO BE PREGNANT", I SHAKE MY HEAD. YOU KNOW, ABORTION ISNT THE ONLY THING THAT PREVENTS UNWANTED CHILDBIRTH....
SIDE NOTE: THIS SAME WOMAN IS AN ILLEGAL AND WAS SUPER SAD THAT ICE CAME AFTER HER. MAYBE DONT BE A LOUD AND PROUD ILLEGAL WHO TOUTS HER ABORTIONS LIKE THEY ARE PRESTIGIOUS AWARDS.
devidee I'm surprised you are anti-abortion.
Seems out of character.
Read this on the internet so it must be true.
If you count the number of abortions since RvW it would total ~70M.
That’s the fucking population of France.
don't agree with elective but agree with the rest. i believe in adoption for unwanted pregnancys..Quote:
Originally Posted by devidee
Have a friend that had 8 abortions. She did have one kid tho and that kid has been unable to conceive.
Abortion should not be birth control. They have enough birth control methods including plan B that would cover 99.999% of pregnancies.
I just don't understand what the left wants here.
They want states to be able to determine abortion "rights" favorable to them, and never allowed in the Roe era, such as late term abortion on demand.
Yet they also DON'T want states to be able to determine abortion rights (or lack thereof), if the states want something MORE restrictive.
So which is it? Should states be able to modify the original spirit of Roe, or shouldn't they?
We won't get these answers. Instead we will get "OMG MUH WOMEN'S HEALTH" to go along with "OMG MUH DEMOCRACY", "OMG MUH WHITE SUPREMACY", "OMG MUH BATHROOM RIGHTS", and "OMG MUH POLICE BRUTALITY".
:lol2Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
I'm not quite the left but we don't want these cold blooded, slimy, unbelievably evil and corrupt fucks using this to conceal their indifference to human suffering and death. Not one of them gives a rat's ass about the unborn and the whole world knows it. They need to take their God and their absurd fairytales and shove em up their ass. If there's a God then let him handle it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
Mr Zappa was right, we're moving toward a fascist theocracy.,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IETm_lVIHR8
Hey ladies, get your John Robert's endorsed clothes hanger.
Forget all that, they testified under oath that this was settled law, they all got their current job on the understanding this was settled law.
They lied, now arrest them!
They're going to find out what the people think about living in a fascist theocracy.
It's not even in the top 10 of issues. Moderate Dems also wish the issue would go away because now they have to take a stance. Either way they go they lose votes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerveza FriaQuote:
Originally Posted by TheXFactor
So this is incorrect. Abortion is not even in the top 5 issues that people vote on. So, you will be deeply disappointed. People care about the Economy and Crime way more. Democrats lose on those issues every time.
Blue states keep passing outrageous abortion laws which allow easy access to late term abortion. Republicans get increasingly outraged. I know this because I'm a Republican myself. I communicate with other Republicans. I'm in Republican online groups/forums. I watch Republican shows. Every time another outrageous late-term abortion law was passed, that's when everyone would get all spun up.
It wasn't always like this.
For 40+ years, the accepted "compromise" was easy access to early term abortion, middle-term abortions if the baby has major birth defects, and late-term if the mom's life is in danger.
This shoved abortion to the back of the line regarding policy priorities, and it would only crop up during Presidential debates every 4 years, and then return to being a background issue.
However, as blue states increased access to late term abortion, and arrogantly labeled it "access to women's healthcare" and "women's autonomy", the right finally got pissed off and decided to come back with their own preferred abortion legislation.
That's what reignited this entire thing about 5 years ago.
Now a Republican-led Supreme Court has decided to just end the entire sham of the federal government being in control of abortion (because it really hasn't been for the past 5-10 years), and the left is panicking.
Well... maybe if you guys hadn't given "rights" to women to commit literal murder of fully developed healthy babies, this wouldn't be happening. You guys ruined the entire spirit of Roe, so now Roe is going away.
I just don't like it because it has the potential to fuck up an easy Republican victory in November. Terrible timing.
While I am personally pro-life, I am actually for allowing elective early term abortion, from a legal standpoint. Basically I'm fine with the way abortion was handled after the updated 1992 ruling. It should have been left alone there. If it was, we probably wouldn't be seeing the end of Roe right now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sloppy Joe
Very bad for moderate Dems. Either way they go they lose votes.
Sloppy Joe doesn't want to lose his ability to keep having abortions.
Soyboy Sloppy would have been extremely upset if his wife left him during the 9th month of pregnancy and aborted his kid.
He lives in Oregon where this would have been legal (and still is).
Fortunately for him, she did have the kid and didn't leave him, but instead stopped having sex with him. This has led him to take out his frustrations on the internet, where he trolls older men on forums every day.
Male libs are always very progressive until the situation affects them, and then all of a sudden they change their tune.
Lol what a fucking weird thing for a fellow parent to say.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
have you ever been in an abusive relationship?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
Also fun fact the number one cause of death for pregnant women is homicide