It will be a site with literally nothing but Run it Once / Galfond fan boys … FAILQuote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
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It will be a site with literally nothing but Run it Once / Galfond fan boys … FAILQuote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
They are overthinking it for sure!
Stick to the basics of looking at what people want out of a site.
People want fair games, fair rake (as fair as it can be), a nice working interface, decent stakes across the board, a site that shows it cares about it's players (Pokerstars pre black friday), and a player pool that has a lot of recs in it. The last one can be hard to obtain but all the others are things you can control.
Nail the basics first and develop a good reputation should be the initial goal.
Don't confuse the hell out of recreational players with these weird ideas because that will scare them off.
Pretty much all ofQuote:
Originally Posted by BeerAndPoker
:this
I mean phil is a smart guy, who has made tens of millions playing poker...he of all people should know what fancy play syndrome is...that what a lotta this bullshit is...fancy play when it's really not needed at a poker site...
I am in love with all of this Phill...Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTickleFinally, an update:
https://www.runitonce.eu/news/1-an-update-and-a-plan/
Quote:
#1: An Update and a Plan
Hey, all. It feels like a lifetime ago that I announced the impending launch of Run It Once Poker. I said that we’d be coming soon to provide a viable alternative in the online poker market - one that cares about and believes many of the things that you likely do.
You rallied behind us, you pledged your support, you were ready and waiting to play and, unfortunately, we missed our target.
Today, I’d like to explain why that happened, provide an update on our progress, and discuss one of our core values that I intend to do a better job delivering on.
A poker site should be transparent.
You didn’t hear many updates from me over this past year. There were good reasons for this, and if I had it to do over again I’m not sure what I’d change, but I’m disappointed because I told you the kind of poker site we wanted to be and my infrequent updates gave you reason to doubt we’d follow through.
Transparency is something that was, and still is, missing in online poker. It’s not easy for a large company to be transparent - I’m not criticizing or pointing fingers at other operators. I’m just stating, once again, that we at Run It Once believe very strongly in being as transparent as reasonably possible.
In this update, and especially in the several that will soon follow (more on that later), I’m going to do my best to show you the level of transparency we intend to deliver.
What’s Been Going On?
I know how common software development delays occur. I knew it before we started (though perhaps not as much as I know it now!). Believe it or not, I built a decent cushion into the estimate I was given for my first announcement.
Our software delays weren’t the typical delays that come with the territory. We made some significant missteps early in our software development (I don’t just mean our tech team - I’m as much to blame as anyone) and it set us on a course that’s been very difficult to navigate.
After a change in leadership early last year, our new tech team had to get acquainted with what was handed off to them, evaluate our options, and develop and propose a plan - not a quick process - and in the meantime we continued down the path we were on. Eventually, they came up with a plan they were excited about, but it wouldn’t be an easy choice for us.
One option was to stay the course, where we’d made significant progress but would be faced with slower future development.
The other was to redo several things in a way that allowed for more flexibility and for us to create everything we’d dreamt up, but taking those steps backward meant a much later launch date.
As a new plan was being developed and as we wrestled with our options, I didn’t know what kind of update I could offer you all. So I kept quiet, even once we chose our path, because after my experience with the first announcement, I didn’t want to make any promises that I couldn’t keep.
Our Decision
So, what do you do when you can’t choose between two options?
We didn't want to push back launch even further, but it's extremely important to us that we bring all of our ideas to life, so we combined our options into one that we believe gives us the best of both worlds.
We decided to stay on course and deliver part of our offering quickly while also working on changes that will allow much more flexibility in our development process going forward. This meant a sped up launch, but a slightly slower path to our final product.
The result of this is that we will be launching Run It Once Poker in 2 phases.
We’ve come far enough on Phase 1 that we’ve just begun our private beta, which means I’m finally ready to announce a launch window.
Phase 1 - Launching Summer 2018
We didn’t want to launch a subpar version of anything, so, with a long and difficult road ahead, we focused all efforts on our cash game offering.
Our Phase 1 platform will provide cash games that (we think) look and feel great and include some exciting and innovative features.
Tournaments will be added in Phase 2 (more on that below).
We decided on this for a few reasons:
We didn’t want to release anything we aren’t proud of, so launching with unpolished and partial versions of multiple offerings was off the table.
We figured that you’d rather have something from us than to wait much longer for us to offer everything.
We were furthest along on cash games, and even if we hadn't been, launching with tournaments only would be extremely challenging for a new site fighting for liquidity.
What to Expect from Phase 1
Though Phase 1 includes cash games only and won’t have all of the options and flexibility that will be in our final product (at least not right at launch), we’ve built a product we’re proud of that will deliver on our vision and our values.
A poker site needs to believe in the dream of poker as a career. It shouldn't cater to professionals over other players, but it must make every policy change with the viability of the dream in mind.
We will set sensible rake for sustainable and beatable games.
It should seek to build a fun and engaging environment that all types of players enjoy playing in.
We’ll be offering a unique cash game experience, focused on fun and on pure, authentic poker.
We will have an innovative player rewards system that I believe will make both pros and recreational players happy. One which will give slightly more rewards to dedicated pros while not leaving recreational players behind, will engage recreational players and pros alike, and will make it impossible for players to leave their rewards unclaimed - a big savings for many poker sites at the expense of uninformed amateurs and aloof pros like me!
A poker site should believe in fairness... It shouldn't let honest players, professional or recreational, be taken advantage of by others exploiting unenforceable rules. It should seek to put a stop to predatory behavior and to cheating of any kind. It should strive to create as level a playing field as possible.
New problems should be met with creative solutions.
We will protect recreational players by eliminating or severely disincentivizing multiple forms of predatory behavior in many different ways, including some original concepts. As new threats arise, as they inevitably will over time, we’ll find a way to fight back. We have been and will remain dedicated to making Run It Once a level playing field.
We have some fun features and distinct policies that you’ll have to wait to hear about, but I assure you that Run It Once Poker, even in Phase 1, will be different from the rest.
What to Expect from Phase 2
If you like our Phase 1 product, you’ll love what’s coming in Phase 2. (Read this in an announcer voice. My voice won’t work.)
Phase 2 will include:
General software enhancements, more user options
A distinct SNG offering
An innovative Tournament experience
An awesome nosebleed stakes offering, with several unique ideas from someone who's played these games for a long time and thinks he knows what they need!
I just became ready to announce Phase 1, so I’m still a ways away from sharing estimates for Phase 2. You’ll hear from me on that once I have something concrete to tell you.
So, When’s the Next Update?
As I alluded to, I’ll be working to deliver the transparency you were promised.
The Phase 1 details above were left vague for a reason. Between now and our launch, I will be making several posts, each one dedicated to specific policies and features we’ll have at Run It Once Poker.
I’ll share the decisions we made and the concepts we came up with. I’ll explain exactly why we chose certain policies over others and I’ll detail the thought process behind our ideas, because that’s what the poker community deserves from a poker site.
I’ll probably share some designs and other fun stuff along the way!
The online poker landscape has changed since we began building Run It Once Poker. Some operators have made commendable improvements, while others have drifted even further from what we believe online poker should be.
We’re as excited as we’ve ever been to play our part in pushing online poker in the right direction, and we’re doing everything we can to make it worth the wait.
https://www.runitonce.eu/static/img/...live-poker.png
No huds or scripters and a reward system for recs..
Auto seating at cash games...GREAT!!!
Tournament structure,s geared for recs..
GEAR THE WHOLE SITE TOWARDS GETTING AND KEEPING RECS AT THE TABLES..NOTHING ELSE..
It must have an honest feel!!!!!!
Bring!! The rec$!!! AND THE REST!!!! WILL FOLLOW!!!!
ITS NOT MORE COMPLICATED THEN THAT.
love the spirit of the site your trying create..
Hope you take new York.. there is at least one rec here who will deposit and play on day 1...
I saw this video as a recommendation on my youtube sidebar feed and guess Galfond posted the preview of Run It Once Poker nearly two weeks ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIkn9pVPuGM
Not really sure what to think or if I should even care being American who can't play on it but I guess it looks better then some clients out there. His ideas/vision for the site obviously will continue to have strong critique.
I think Phil is a nice guy and is trying hard here. He also definitely has some innovative ideas, and is really attempting to achieve the balance between a site catering to pros and one catering to recs.
Still, I think this whole thing is going to be full of fail.
Galfond was great on the new Joey podcast. He has great ideas (especially in regards to twitch/marketing).
MrTickle is referring to this: https://pokerfuse.com/news/poker-roo...e-run-it-once/
It's a program he calls "streamR".
Basically you qualify for anywhere between 50% and 110% rakeback if you stream Twitch while you play Run It Once. The percentage you get is based upon how many hours your stream is viewed, when you add up all the viewers together:
Level 1: 50% rakeback for 200 hours of watch time
Level 2: 75% rakeback for 1200 hours of watch time
Level 3: 100% rakeback for 8000 hours of watch time
Level 4 (named the “Team RIO” level): 110% rakeback for 20,000 hours of watch time
On the surface, this seems forward-thinking and genius. Twitch streams of online poker have grown in popularity in recent years. They haven't been well monetized for the streamer, however, except when the streamer manages to get enough mainstream popularity to where he gets sponsorships (Jason Somervile is a good example).
So here Galfond is making an offer which will be beneficial for both the Twitch streamer AND Run It Once, as it will basically be free advertising for Galfond's site, and will cost him relatively little. And it will reach the exact target demographic of online poker players! Wow!!!
Of course, within every great innovative promotion are holes which the less scrupulous will exploit.
This one isn't particularly hard to figure out.
Let's say we have two Russian friends, Sergei and Vladmir. Sergei loves the idea of 110% rakeback, but has a rather boring personality, doesn't speak good English, and isn't very good at promoting himself. But wait!! His friend Vladmir is an excellent programmer. Sergei has an idea: "What if I just get Vladmir to make 1000 Twitch bots to watch my stream?" With 1000 viewers, Sergei will hit 20,000 hours of watch time in just 20 hours of streaming. Easy, right?
But wait, there's more!
Once Sergei qualifies for 110% rakeback, he has Vladmir start a channel and pull the same thing. Now Vladmir and Sergei wil BOTH have 110% rakeback.
Now, guess what? All they have to do is play heads up all day and all night with the same bankroll, and the guaranteed cash (in the form of 10% of all rake paid) will roll in, given that they will be earning more in rakeback per hand than rake is paid. In fact, they could even run bots to play each other for many hours at a time.
Perhaps you might say that they would get caught doing this, as it wouldn't be difficult for Galfond's team to detect two guys with 110% rakeback doing nothing but playing heads up against each other.
Okay, say that Sergei and Vladmir have 4 other friends. Say that they all sit in a 6-max game together, perhaps all with bots, and all sharing a bankroll? Same deal. Guaranteed money from Run It Once.
This can and will happen.
And even if it doesn't go as far as people playing each other heads up to exploit the 110% rakeback, at the very least we will have exploitation of Twitch in order to earn the 110% rakeback, and that part is very hard to detect, because Galfond's access to user information on Twitch is very limited.
The software has launched as of today so lets see where it goes.
Has there been any real marketing of this, outside of Galfond's own social media?
What hope do they have of attracting recs to the site?
I'm asking these questions seriously, not sarcastically. I honestly don't know the answer.
That's a very good/serious question everyone should wonder and I don't really know for sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
I would imagine now that it's launched they will pump money into advertising but until it was online what really is the point to spend until now?
This probably means for a little while the competition will be tough until recs get on there.
I checked a few people randomly on twitch streaming it and it looks the same as that beta video of Galfond playing but I'd imagine they worked out bugs,etc...
From a quick youtube search I found this video of a guy breaking down the rake model:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmuSDSzZbUE
Been playing a bit. It’s great. Splash the pot is such a cool idea.
If you think you are missing out because you can’t play runitonce.eu, think again. Please see the below listing that I sent to runitonce.
Why I hate runitonce.eu:
- Can’t vary the size of the table window (tilting)
- Suits hard to see (tilting)
- Can’t see the winning hand long enough to digest (very tilting when combined with…)
- No replay feature (extremely tilting especially when…)
- I time out trying to see the hand history (so tilting I say, fuck runitonce)
- Can’t see my stack size when sitting out (tilting)
- Obnoxious chips coming from under the table (obnoxious)
- I’m always in a suit and tie (obnoxious)
- Video seems to step when chips are placed (obnoxious)
But, without a doubt, the most tilting/obnoxious/yougottabekiddingme is the “player’s underlying playing style” feature. You absolutely have to be fucking kidding me. So, you are labeling a player based on a proprietary formula to what???? Reward the lazy player? Look cool? Provide information for some reason? What information is this? So now, I have to look at some stupid avatar, looking deranged or calm or whatever, to consider what my opponent is considering so that I can make a play? God help us all.
Then, I did my research in fairness to runitonce by looking at their known issues. And they know about most of them. So, that makes me wonder if they want a pass just because they are working on the issues? At this time, that is a NO from me.
Hope this helps. (Yes, I know it helps Pokerstars greatly…sorry.)
However, the lack of HUDs and the rakeback are quite good.....
50Cinquanta, thanks for the report.
I'm going to read it on the radio show this week.
Here's two opinions from 2+2, similar to yours:
Quote:
I don't play PLO and bellow is just my experience from playing NLHE on the site the last few weeks and then stopped a little over a week ago.
I had big hopes for the site and really wanted(ed) it to succeed but I am starting to get pretty indifferent at this point. There isn't anything big about the site or the direction that makes it more reg and poker friendly than other sites. Software is different and more rec friendly than many other sites but for regs I think no screen names and the different visual stuff is very close to net zero and probably slightly negative. For example t's annoying playing 3-4 tables with the same regs and a few recs and having to figure which seat on each table is the same reg. I don't mind HUD-less but full anon is not preferred for me. Ability to change screen name once a day or a week or something would be more ideal for me personally.
Games not filling or stakes not running is also a bit disappointing and it often takes 30min+ to get a game going, and most of the time you get it going it's just 3-4 regs that would beat one stake higher on other sites playing a for like short while unless a weaker reg or recreational reg joins (not many whales like you see on stars or unibet joins). I could stand going through that routine and try to help things get off the ground and play zoom on the side or something, but they charge 5,75% rake with cap as high as the softest sites so the shorthanded reg action is next to unbeatable. I also don't see the site heading in a direction it would be worth sacrificing time and $EV to help them right now. Cut rake or give some other incentive without requiring me to stream and I'd be more incentivized to try to get this thing off the ground.
It's due time for RIO to stop leaning on the community and say: "If everyone were just to show up the games would run". My experience has been that regs have shown up and tried to start tables. Playing shorthanded with massive rake without recs showing up often enough and after a few days and maybe even weeks of that they stop bothering.
Source: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...postcount=3885Quote:
Everyone wanted RIO to be some sort of saviour poker site based on the shit people have had with Stars and other sites over the past few years but I really don't see anything that's showing me it's going to be any better. As someone that never participated in the initial testing I must admit I was shocked at the state of the software when it was first released in February given how long this had been in the making. There's just so many features we take for granted such as resizing tables and sitting back in that 3 months later still haven't been fixed.
On top of that I was told as a UK resident I couldn't apply for their StreamR additional rakeback (god knows why) and I also got stung on depositing/withdrawing because the account is in euros and there's no way of depositing in GBP.
I want(ed) this site to work as much as anyone but goodwill will only lasts so long. For me, I never deposited again after I withdrew my balance because of the exchange rate differences, just a personal thing because other sites have no issue in having a GBP account to deposit into when the site is in EUR. For other people, they're probably getting bored of no traffic, lack of recs, no MTTs etc. There was a massive hype in the first week but Phil must really be starting to worry now.
I hope it works out for him but I can't help but feel the dev team just don't have the resources if they still haven't sorted some of the issues out by now.
I think we can all agree that Phil is a great guy, and almost everyone wanted him to succeed.
Unfortunately -- and I've been saying this from the beginning years ago -- this site is launching at the wrong time and to the wrong market.
In 2006, this thing would have had a ton of potential.
In 2019, not so much.
A new, non-US-facing poker site only has limited potential these days. This especially becomes true when they lack a proper marketing budget.
Sure, they're doing some innovative things by having streamers (very cheaply) market for them, but again, that only goes so far.
A poker site is not like a local restaurant. A restaurant's customer doesn't care if the place is empty or full. He only cares if he can get a seat and eat a meal at a reasonable price. A poker customer usually only plays if he sees games running. Thus, you need customers (or the appearance of customers) to get more customers.
Once you have a lot of activity, the site almost markets itself, as action leads to more action.
I can't tell you how many times people ask me where they should be playing online as US customers. I usually answer, "America's Cardroom or Bovada." People ask, "Why? Are those good sites?" I reply, "No, they both have a lot of problems, but they have the most games running, and they pay you reliably."
A site without activity has no potential. It could be the best software in the world, with the most innovative promotions and gimmicks in the world, with the best customer service in the world, and none of that will matter.
Without a fair number of existing games running, the site will die. Potential customers will open the software, see no games running of the type and limit they want to play, and they will close the software and never come back.
I honestly don't see this site ever blowing up. The shine is already starting to wear off. Between the bugs, lack of basic features, and lack of activity, even the biggest Galfond supporters are starting to question why they're continuing to bother with it.
Things aren't hopeless just yet. But they need to change their direction and focus pronto. The question should be, "How do we get butts in seats here, and how do those butts stay planted in enough seats to where the average n00b will want to sit and play?"
The site is a massive fail with nothing but regs and galfond fan boys ... who coulda seen that one comin lol
The crowd has turned on Galfond on 2+2.
Not on him personally, but on the site.
Everyone basically agrees that it's a fail, that it's full of bugs, that it's a ghost town, and that it was mismanaged.
RIP
Despite the fact it's not an era you should launch a new poker site RIU was likely under financed and launched way too prematurely.
I wouldn't rule it out completely from increasing traffic over the next year or two but it will take some time. Changes will need to be made and they will have to eat a bunch of money in marketing/giveaway type of stuff before it can grow.
I agree that it's now looking like a buggy failsite, but I have to disagree with many of the criticisms which have come from this site. The truth is that if the bugs were ironed out and there were a good amount of traffic then the site would be great. The avatars aren't a big deal. The splash pot is great. The set buy-in levels are great. There's a lot to love - just online poker isn't what it once was.
Hope i'm wrong.
The fail site even has SJW galfond fan boys as their customer service too, HALL OF FAME.
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...&postcount=766
So a customer uses the word "imbecile" because he's unhappy about a refund, and is banned from the site permanently.Quote:
Originally Posted by sah_24
Not a bustling site like Pokerstars, but a dead site where they need every player they can get.
Bravo.
https://i.imgur.com/GXNY9Jc.png
(Bigger version: https://i.imgur.com/GXNY9Jc.png)
Phil finally speaks on 2p2:
Source: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...postcount=3939Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Galfond
Cliffs of Galfond's post: We've pretty much been doing everything right recently, so we are staying the course.
Let's take a look at these parts:
This passage shows he just doesn't get it at all.Quote:
Re-sizeable tables are a little bit different in that we knowingly launched in beta without them, and we also knew they would not be added quickly.
This wasn't an easy decision, though I think, in hindsight, it was probably the right one. We'd still be pre-launch now if we waited for them and that would mean that we'd have still not learned about the unexpected issues we've experienced thus far. So we'd launch later, then have a number of bugs that take longer to fix. I believe this route gets us to our "final" product faster.
Even Doug Polk recently posted that it's "super wtf" that the tables can't be resized.
Phil is trying to say that launching the beta release now was better than waiting many more months to put resizeable tables in.
What he 's missing is that they put too much effort into bullshit (like those changing avatars) and not enough effort into the very basics which are necessary for a poker site -- like resizeable tables ad MTTs.
The sentence at the end is also laughable, as he's saying that launching this bad beta at this point was a good thing, because it allowed them to learn about other bugs.
Yeah... and it also frustrated a lot of your core membership away from wanting to continue playing on your site.
I don't think he gets this, either.Quote:
Though I'm still no expert on development, and I'm not truly qualified to know this with certainty, I very much believe we're in good hands now with the team we've got. They've accomplished things that previous team members told us weren't possible, and while they've still come in behind schedule on a number of things - it's often because they've been dealing with the technical debt created by our early development.
People aren't criticizing the current technical team for its abilities.
They're criticizing both the lack of basic features and the apparent slowness in fixing urgent bugs.
Phil is still too hung up on the fact that they had some previous tech team which didn't work out, and has since switched to this one.
Your tech team can be great, but if they're managed poorly, then they aren't going to get the job done properly. I can say this from over a decade of working in software development.
Or, simply put, the next update is going to be underwhelming and little will appear different.Quote:
This update we have in the works, which was expected to be the 2nd of many over this time period, is being referred to in a few places as "the big update." It will certainly be bigger than our previous update, which fixed a handful of bugs and made a few visual improvements, but I don't want everyone expecting it to be groundbreaking.
.
.
The plan (hope) is that subsequent updates happen much more frequently, and we make continued small improvements to the platform while working on the larger ticket additions in the background (SNGs, MTTs, etc), over time.
In Polk's brief post, he mentioned that the real concern should be the fact that they launched with a lack of basic features and had major bugs. He said that the other stuff (splash the pot, anonymous tables, changing avatars, etc) isn't all that important either way.
I mostly agree. While those design details are worthy of debate, they aren't the main problem.
Someone should have told Phil that you don't launch with a garbage, incomplete product, and you need a marketing budget if you ever want to become anything more than a niche failsite.
Many 2p2 posters are complaining that constructive criticism is falling upon deaf ears, and I have to agree. As affable as Galfond is, he seems very set in his ways, and doesn't seem particularly interested in the community's input. Have they even changed a single thing (aside from bug fixes) as a result of community feedback?
Galfond is a libtard, so of course he isn't gonna listen to anyone. This place was bound to be a massive fail from day 1, and it was very obvious to anyone with a brain ...
LOL here is the infamous "imbecile" e-mail which got that guy banned.
Notice how harmless it is.
They really have a bunch of bitch boys working at customer service at RIO.
Imagine banning someone permanently over a single letter like the one below:
Amazing.
Everything is super negative on 2+2 now regarding Run It Once.
Even Mike Haven the mod is joining in on the bashing now (in a polite way, but he's basically saying it's a huge fail and they shit the bed).
High chance that this site is going to go down in poker history as one of the big fails.
Exactly as anyone with a brain predicted, Galfond has 0 reach to recs. The only people who were ever gonna be on the site were 2+2 fan boys lol. Then even funnier he made his entire company ran by SJW's like himself which = insta doom lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
I didn't catch this to confirm but from what I am told they did a Run It Once 24 hour charity poker stream last week on twitch switching between pros on there and Ben "Sauce123" Sulsky was streaming mid afternoon (EST) playing something small like 25 or 50NL. I guess he kept saying how he couldn't play anything higher but will continue to try to find something running at no limit but nothing else bigger at that moment was running.
If this really was the case it's sad that not even a single 1/2 or higher game was running during afternoon hours.
Phi just posted this on 2+2, then tweeted about how he "opened up more than expected", linking the post:
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...postcount=4216
Here was my response:
Cliffs: Phil still doesn't understand that if you release a shitty product which isn't ready, people will dismiss it and look elsewhere. He also doesn't seem to understand that you build features people want, not features YOU Want.Quote:
I don't want RIO to fail. When I heard about Phil's vision initially, I thought he was very much on the right track, and wanted to see it work.
Unfortunately, between launching a totally-not-ready product, the misleading 51% rakeback promise (a promotion like STP is NOT rakeback!!), and complete lack of incentive to start and keep games running, is killing the site.
You have to give the customer a reason to select your business instead of the competition.
Sadly in RIO's current state, there is no reason for most people to do that.
Low traffic, bugs, lack of tournaments, lack of basic features, anon tables (which almost nobody likes), high-variance promotions instead of real rakeback (or simply lower rake), etc...
At some point you need to decide if you are designing the site for the players or for yourself. Many businesses fail because the owner makes decisions based upon his preferences, rather than customer preferences.
I hope you can turn this ship around, but that starts with a willingness to quickly course correct in a major way.
After reading Phil's post, it's clear he hasn't learned anything ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
He actually said his customer service was good lol ...
Site will be a massive fail as was easily predictable ...
I just got this in e-mail.
Notice the blank where it says, "First off, we are offering a new and improved..."
It says "Welcome Bonus" after that, but the geniuses made the link text black, so it didn't show up on the black background.
Site is a complete ghost town.
Whole thing is a mismanaged comedy of errors.
:fail2
Did you get a chance to play on it while you were in Canada?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
I've been playing a lot of RIO this summer. I play PLO50 which is the most popular game on the site. Games run for about 12 hours of the day. About fifteen tables of PLO50 is the most I've seen during happy hour promotions.
Games are quite soft so no complaints there. The biggest issue is the software. It used to crash all the time. They released a bugfix in June and now it only crashes every so often. Usually when opening up more tables. Compared to other operators the RIO client hogs a lot of memory. It looks great but is clunky to use.
Rat-holing is an issue. You can double up, leave the table, re-sit and continue playing with one buyin like nothing happened. Table stakes is fundamental to poker, I may be sentimental about it but rat-hole tables at RIO do not feel like real poker. The issue is not helped by a relatively popular streamer employing this strategy a lot. I don't blame him, it's allowed and he thinks it's +ev for him.
Splash pots are great. I hear a lot of NLHE players complaining about them but for PLO I have nothing bad to say about them. Small splash pots increase the better player's edge and big splashes are a welcome gamble for everyone.
Unfortunately I can't see RIO taking off. The software is just too bad and the problems with it seems hard to fix. I think they could have become a popular site if only they launched with working software and tournaments. Despite what is being said about anonymous names and ridiculous avatars the recreationals don't seem to care much.
Yeah, I read about the ratholing problem. Unbelievable that a site so obsessed with "fairness to all players" is allowing this.
To be fair, though, Pokerstars allowed ratholing for a very long time. But still, this should have been disallowed.
I agree that the recs aren't that bothered by anonymous tables, but such tables really turn off pros/grinders, and they also discourage railbirds from wanting to watch the games, which in turn spurs action/deposits later from them. Additionally, recs will sometimes like facing particular opponents and re-deposit in order to play them again -- something that again won't happen on anon tables.
An already successful site can transition to anon tables without too much damage (think Bovada), but getting one off the ground with anon tables simply places an unnecessary additional hurdle.
The biggest problem of course is the lack of basic functionality of the software, and the bugginess. The lack of marketing is also a huge hindrance.
They just had a very poor plan going in, and refused to change course when everything was going poorly. Phil keeps thinking success is just around the corner. It's too late. Game over, man.
It was game over the day he hired a group of people just like himself ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
They just sent out a promo e-mail promoting the resizable table feature (welcome to 2003), and then also mentioned that there's "81% rakeback" for the next 3 days.
Of course, this rakeback is BS, because 51 of the 81 percent is that "splash the pot" promo, which indeed kicks the money back to the players, but isn't actual rakeback. It tilts me that a veteran of online poker like Galfond is intentionally misusing the word "rakeback" like this.
But they are tacking on a direct 30% additional rakeback, which they haven't done before. It only lasts 3 days, though.
So looks like they are taking the suggestion I mentioned a long time ago, and that's to either have greatly reduced or no rake to get activity going.
Of course, 3 days isn't going to do much. But at least they're finally getting a clue that they've got to change something up if they want to see action on that site.
It's nothing new. They have ran similar promos before. In a previous one you got 101% direct rakeback for a couple of days. I really don't mind rakeback in the form of splash pots. It creates action and makes the game more complex. Also seems to keeps nits off the site.
Oh, I think the Splash the Pot promo is fine. In fact, this is one of the few good ideas that they've had for the site.Quote:
Originally Posted by klinz
It's the fact that they call this "rakeback" which tilts me, because it's not. It's a jackpot promo which is misleadingly being called rakeback. I'm currently arguing with a bunch of guys on 2+2 about this, and it's very frustrating because barely anyone is understanding my point.
Here's the discussion. Scroll down a bit to find my post (I'm "Kilowatt" there, btw): https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2.../index178.html
Here was my opening post there:
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Guys, it's very simple.
The term "rakeback" is well-established in our industry, dating back over 15 years.
It means "at some point in the future (usually at the end of the month), a percentage of your paid rake is returned to you in the form of a cash payment or deposit to your account".
That is NOT what is going on with Splash the Pot. You don't get anything from Splash the Pot unless (1) it occurs while you're playing and (2) you win the pot. Additionally, you aren't getting Splash the Pot money in proportion to the rake you paid. It is possible to win a lot of STP money on your very first hand on the site, before you have paid any rake!
Splash the Pot is a jackpot (albeit a small one), and the 51% rake paying for it is a (large) jackpot drop. Think about that and you'll realize I'm right. It's no different than your local casino dropping a dollar each hand and then paying out a bad beat jackpot with that monet every so often.
Imagine if Commerce Casino promoted "20% rakeback" because they were dropping a jackpot-funding dollar in addition to the $4 rake they were collecting. There would be outrage, and rightfully so.
Phil is a fairly old-school poker pro, and knows exactly what the term "rakeback" means. They are bastardizing the term in order to promote something they're really not delivering. It sounds a lot better to say "51% rakeback" rather than "51% of the rake is a jackpot drop which is returned to the players via the Splash the Pot promo." It sounds better, but it's not the truth.
Remember this, from the announcement of Run It Once:
If this site is fair, honest, and transparent, then it needs to stop lying in promos about their "rakeback", given that the term has had a specific meaning in poker for almost two decades, and this ain't it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Galfond
Another post of mine:
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If you brought 100 experienced grinders to runitonce.eu, had them examine the front page, and asked them what they were expecting regarding the "51% rakeback" they were promised, 100 out of 100 would say that they were expecting a flat 51% of their rake paid back to them at a date in the near future.
This is highly misleading. Experienced players know what "rakeback" is supposed to mean, and Run It Once has changed the term in order to mislead people via marketing.
Again, this is a jackpot promo, not rakeback.
Let's look at the difference:
A jackpot promo:
- Comes from a pool of money funded by a portion of the rake
- Hits on an occasional frequency
- Rewards only a small percentage of total players when it hits
- Has huge variance regarding each individual player's return on it
- Can sometimes return huge to players who have barely played at all
Rakeback:
- Is returning rake collected at a later date to players at the table
- Goes to everyone who played on the site
- Is not tied to an infrequent random event
- Has very low variance -- it's easy to approximate based upon number of hands played
- Will never return huge to someone who has barely played
Which one sounds like it describes Splash the Pot more?
The big issue here is that not even the shadiest of shady card rooms ever had the nerve to advertise their jackpot promos as "rakeback". Not one. You just can't call a jackpot promo rakeback.