Can we reflect on the Olympics for a minute here?

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Originally Posted by Anal_Hershiser

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Originally Posted by JUSTIFIEDhomicide

I didn't even know Olympic bids existed. I thought they just randomly picked them out of a hat, or had a committee that decided on where they would be played. My disclaimer from the start is that I have no clue about all of this, and it's genuine curiosity

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bids_for_Olympic_Games

"National Olympic Committees select from within their national territory cities to put forward bids to host an Olympic Games. The staging of the Paralympic Games is automatically included in the bid.[1] Since the creation of the International Olympic Committee (IOC) in 1894, which successfully appropriated the name of the Ancient Greek Olympics to create a modern sporting event, interested cities have rivalled for selection as host of the Summer or Winter Olympic Games.

Currently 43 cities (including repeats) have already successfully hosted, or will host, official Summer or Winter Olympics - this is since its resurrection in 1896: one in Central America, one in South America, two have been hosted in Australia, six in East Asia, ten in North America and the rest in Europe. Currently, no Continental African, Central Asian, Middle Eastern/Western Asian, Caribbean, South East Asian, Pacific Island or South Asian city has ever been chosen to host an Olympics. Furthermore, the Winter Olympics have never been hosted south of the Equator.

Typically, the decision is made at an IOC Session approximately seven years prior to the games; for example the 2012 Summer Olympics were awarded to London on 6 July 2005, the 2014 Winter Olympics were awarded to Sochi on 4 July 2007, the 2016 Summer Olympics were awarded to Rio de Janeiro on 2 October 2009, and the 2018 Winter Olympics were awarded to Pyeongchang on 6 July 2011."

Notice how often they use the word "awarded"? It's a huge deal with tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars at stake.

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Has anyone here been to the Olympics before? Do they have Olympic hosted concession stands like you would at a ball game, or is everything done independently?

I understand how big of an economy boost it would be to have the Olympics in your city. I guess my question is: Do the Olympics make money? If so, who are "The Olympics"? Is it an actual business?

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Originally Posted by Anal_Hershiser

Any city that hosts the Olympic games can expect a shit ton of money to be pumped into their economy. Why do you think Olympic bids are so hotly contested? If money was a concern, maybe they could shitcan the ridiculous opening/closing ceremonies and focus on the games themselves.

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Host cities in recent years spent a lot more than they could hope to ever bring in in the short term, and in most cases, the long term as well. Look at all the empty, decaying Olympic Stadiums around the world as proof. The places that have to build arenas and stadiums (which is pretty much everybody) to host the Olympics end up with massive structures they have no use for but still have to maintain for years to come.

The best case scenario these days is for a Barcelona-like effect. Nobody knew what the fuck Barcelona was before they got the games, now its a world-renowned tourist destination, and is much better off than before. The people in Beijing made out pretty well because the country had to build them all the infrastructure they never got before. The country took a bath, but Beijing made out pretty well, because they didn't really have to fit the bill any more than the billion+ chinese who got no benefit at all from it. Atlanta I think did OK because they have teams that use the stadiums they built for the games, and the Olympic dorms are like GT dorms or some shit now, but most cities end up with lots of shit they have no use for and cannot afford after the fact. Montreal took like 30 years to pay off the debt from their games, Athens has like no use for any of the shit that cost them 10X what they thought it would, lotta these stories around.

The strangest effect is that even though you bring in all this Olympic tourism, you drive away most of the regular tourism you would have had because what kind of idiot vacations in an Olympic city if they don't want to go to the Olympics? Some of those people don't ever come back, and if you fuck up with the Olympics in any public way, nobody else is coming back, either.

The Germans didn't make any money either, but they were very proud of the job they did as a host country, so most Germans have a really positive view of their experience, confidence rises... Kind of like setting foot on the moon, it may have cost more than you hope to make back, but if it raises the spirits of the people, it's more than worth it in the end. From what I read, they are they exception, not the rule.

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Originally Posted by JUSTIFIEDhomicide

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Originally Posted by Anal_Hershiser

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bids_for_Olympic_Games

"National Olympic Committees select from within their national territory cities to put forward bids to host an Olympic Games. The staging of the Paralympic Games is automatically included in the bid.[1] Since the creation of the International Olympic Committee (IOC) in 1894, which successfully appropriated the name of the Ancient Greek Olympics to create a modern sporting event, interested cities have rivalled for selection as host of the Summer or Winter Olympic Games.

Currently 43 cities (including repeats) have already successfully hosted, or will host, official Summer or Winter Olympics - this is since its resurrection in 1896: one in Central America, one in South America, two have been hosted in Australia, six in East Asia, ten in North America and the rest in Europe. Currently, no Continental African, Central Asian, Middle Eastern/Western Asian, Caribbean, South East Asian, Pacific Island or South Asian city has ever been chosen to host an Olympics. Furthermore, the Winter Olympics have never been hosted south of the Equator.

Typically, the decision is made at an IOC Session approximately seven years prior to the games; for example the 2012 Summer Olympics were awarded to London on 6 July 2005, the 2014 Winter Olympics were awarded to Sochi on 4 July 2007, the 2016 Summer Olympics were awarded to Rio de Janeiro on 2 October 2009, and the 2018 Winter Olympics were awarded to Pyeongchang on 6 July 2011."

Notice how often they use the word "awarded"? It's a huge deal with tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars at stake.

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Has anyone here been to the Olympics before? Do they have Olympic hosted concession stands like you would at a ball game, or is everything done independently?

I understand how big of an economy boost it would be to have the Olympics in your city. I guess my question is: Do the Olympics make money? If so, who are "The Olympics"? Is it an actual business?

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I guess "they" would be the IOC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interna...mpic_Committee

They are a "non-profit" organization. But if you don't think backdoor deals and bribes are taking place, you don't live in the real world.

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Originally Posted by Crowe Diddly

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Originally Posted by Anal_Hershiser

Any city that hosts the Olympic games can expect a shit ton of money to be pumped into their economy. Why do you think Olympic bids are so hotly contested? If money was a concern, maybe they could shitcan the ridiculous opening/closing ceremonies and focus on the games themselves.

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Host cities in recent years spent a lot more than they could hope to ever bring in in the short term, and in most cases, the long term as well. Look at all the empty, decaying Olympic Stadiums around the world as proof. The places that have to build arenas and stadiums (which is pretty much everybody) to host the Olympics end up with massive structures they have no use for but still have to maintain for years to come.

The best case scenario these days is for a Barcelona-like effect. Nobody knew what the fuck Barcelona was before they got the games, now its a world-renowned tourist destination, and is much better off than before. The people in Beijing made out pretty well because the country had to build them all the infrastructure they never got before. The country took a bath, but Beijing made out pretty well, because they didn't really have to fit the bill any more than the billion+ chinese who got no benefit at all from it. Atlanta I think did OK because they have teams that use the stadiums they built for the games, and the Olympic dorms are like GT dorms or some shit now, but most cities end up with lots of shit they have no use for and cannot afford after the fact. Montreal took like 30 years to pay off the debt from their games, Athens has like no use for any of the shit that cost them 10X what they thought it would, lotta these stories around.

The strangest effect is that even though you bring in all this Olympic tourism, you drive away most of the regular tourism you would have had because what kind of idiot vacations in an Olympic city if they don't want to go to the Olympics? Some of those people don't ever come back, and if you fuck up with the Olympics in any public way, nobody else is coming back, either.

The Germans didn't make any money either, but they were very proud of the job they did as a host country, so most Germans have a really positive view of their experience, confidence rises... Kind of like setting foot on the moon, it may have cost more than you hope to make back, but if it raises the spirits of the people, it's more than worth it in the end. From what I read, they are they exception, not the rule.

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This is kind of what I was wondering. Do you have a source for this stuff, or is this just your own thought process?

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Originally Posted by Anal_Hershiser

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Originally Posted by JUSTIFIEDhomicide

Has anyone here been to the Olympics before? Do they have Olympic hosted concession stands like you would at a ball game, or is everything done independently?

I understand how big of an economy boost it would be to have the Olympics in your city. I guess my question is: Do the Olympics make money? If so, who are "The Olympics"? Is it an actual business?

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I guess they would be the IOC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interna...mpic_Committee

They are a "non-profit" organization. But if you don't think backdoor deals and bribes are taking place, you don't live in the real world.

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Man, I know you're right, but I don't wanna believe it. Ignorance is bliss type thing. I want to believe the Olympics are the last pure thing we have when it comes to athletes competing not just for the cash.

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Originally Posted by JUSTIFIEDhomicide

I didn't even know Olympic bids existed. I thought they just randomly picked them out of a hat, or had a committee that decided on where they would be played.

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sure, take this year for example. 9 cities submitted bids as below and the IOC gives them a score based on various requirements to host the games:

France Paris — scored 8.5
Spain Madrid — scored 8.3
United Kingdom London — scored 7.6
United States New York City — scored 7.5
Russia Moscow — scored 6.5
Germany Leipzig — scored 6.0
Brazil Rio de Janeiro — scored 5.1
Turkey Istanbul — scored 4.8
Cuba Havana — scored 3.7

The top 5 entered the final phase of the bidding process where members of the IOC pick their personal choice with 1 city being axed after each voting round:

City Country (NOC) Round 1 Round 2 Round 3 Round 4
London Great Britain 22 27 39 54
Paris France 21 25 33 50
Madrid Spain 20 32 31 —
New York City United States 19 16 — —
Moscow Russia 15 — — —

After the 4th round, voila you have your host city.

For 2020 Istanbul, Tokyo and Madrid are the 3 chosen cities.

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Originally Posted by Crowe Diddly

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Originally Posted by Anal_Hershiser

Any city that hosts the Olympic games can expect a shit ton of money to be pumped into their economy. Why do you think Olympic bids are so hotly contested? If money was a concern, maybe they could shitcan the ridiculous opening/closing ceremonies and focus on the games themselves.

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Host cities in recent years spent a lot more than they could hope to ever bring in in the short term, and in most cases, the long term as well. Look at all the empty, decaying Olympic Stadiums around the world as proof. The places that have to build arenas and stadiums (which is pretty much everybody) to host the Olympics end up with massive structures they have no use for but still have to maintain for years to come.

The best case scenario these days is for a Barcelona-like effect. Nobody knew what the fuck Barcelona was before they got the games, now its a world-renowned tourist destination, and is much better off than before. The people in Beijing made out pretty well because the country had to build them all the infrastructure they never got before. The country took a bath, but Beijing made out pretty well, because they didn't really have to fit the bill any more than the billion+ chinese who got no benefit at all from it. Atlanta I think did OK because they have teams that use the stadiums they built for the games, and the Olympic dorms are like GT dorms or some shit now, but most cities end up with lots of shit they have no use for and cannot afford after the fact. Montreal took like 30 years to pay off the debt from their games, Athens has like no use for any of the shit that cost them 10X what they thought it would, lotta these stories around.

The strangest effect is that even though you bring in all this Olympic tourism, you drive away most of the regular tourism you would have had because what kind of idiot vacations in an Olympic city if they don't want to go to the Olympics? Some of those people don't ever come back, and if you fuck up with the Olympics in any public way, nobody else is coming back, either.

The Germans didn't make any money either, but they were very proud of the job they did as a host country, so most Germans have a really positive view of their experience, confidence rises... Kind of like setting foot on the moon, it may have cost more than you hope to make back, but if it raises the spirits of the people, it's more than worth it in the end. From what I read, they are they exception, not the rule.

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We simply disagree on what actually goes on. Cities don't put in bids to lose money. If they weren't a money making venture, nobody would want to host. I don't believe any country has hosted simply for a happy feeling they receive in their tummy for a job well done. I'm not by any means stating these as facts, just my personal opinions.

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Originally Posted by JUSTIFIEDhomicide

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Originally Posted by Anal_Hershiser

I guess they would be the IOC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interna...mpic_Committee

They are a "non-profit" organization. But if you don't think backdoor deals and bribes are taking place, you don't live in the real world.

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Man, I know you're right, but I don't wanna believe it. Ignorance is bliss type thing. I want to believe the Olympics are the last pure thing we have when it comes to athletes competing not just for the cash.

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I believe 95% of the athletes themselves are their for national/personal pride. It's the IOC that is the cancer.

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Originally Posted by Anal_Hershiser

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Originally Posted by JUSTIFIEDhomicide

Has anyone here been to the Olympics before? Do they have Olympic hosted concession stands like you would at a ball game, or is everything done independently?

I understand how big of an economy boost it would be to have the Olympics in your city. I guess my question is: Do the Olympics make money? If so, who are "The Olympics"? Is it an actual business?

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I guess they would be the IOC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interna...mpic_Committee

They are a "non-profit" organization. But if you don't think backdoor deals and bribes are taking place, you don't live in the real world.

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No matter how bad things go, no matter how fucked up a city gets, and no matter how bad a job a city may do, there's no scenario where the IOC DOESN'T make billions and billions of dollars for themselves, if only on the licensing of the olympic name alone.

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Originally Posted by Crowe Diddly

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Originally Posted by Anal_Hershiser

I guess they would be the IOC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interna...mpic_Committee

They are a "non-profit" organization. But if you don't think backdoor deals and bribes are taking place, you don't live in the real world.

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No matter how bad things go, no matter how fucked up a city gets, and no matter how bad a job a city may do, there's no scenario where the IOC DOESN'T make billions and billions of dollars for themselves, if only on the licensing of the olympic name alone.

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No argument here.

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Originally Posted by Anal_Hershiser

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Originally Posted by JUSTIFIEDhomicide

Like I said, I saw plenty of fame whores, but there are so many events where the athletes weren't out for the endorsements. Maybe I'm completely wrong, but I just didn't see it EVERYWHERE. i know what you're saying though.

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The NBA (especially Mark Cuban and David Stern) are pushing for a rule that only players 23 and younger can participate. They want to focus on the FIBA World Cup where they can make huge profits on advertising. The NBA is livid that they are risking their superstars and getting nothing in return. And if they can't get rich off of it, they are gonna do everything they can do mitigate any risks they assume when their 20 million dollar a year athlete chooses to represent his country. It's already happened in Olympic soccer.

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This speaks more to the money grubbing NBA than it does the IOC.
If professinal team athletes don't want to compete because their "normal" career would be jeopardized then that's their choice.

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Originally Posted by Anal_Hershiser

We simply disagree on what actually goes on. Cities don't put in bids to lose money. If they weren't a money making venture, nobody would want to host. I don't believe any country has hosted simply for a happy feeling they receive in their tummy for a job well done. I'm not by any means stating these as facts, just my personal opinions.

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We're not too far off. Nobody thinks they are gonna lose money, and local politicians and various important people get drunk with the thoughts of being in the brightest possible world spotlight for 2 full weeks, and the businesses that do stand to make a shitload of money from building stadiums, doing security, selling things to a city that they'll need etc etc, they fill the local politicians pockets to convince the masses that fuck everyone else, we'll do this right, make money, and be stars of the world forevermore.

I'm not saying Germany went into this thinking "Let's boost the Kraut spirit no matter what the cost," I'm saying they look back at it as a success and are proud of the job they did, which is a lot more than some cities can say. They managed to do a very solid job and not take a bath while doing it, which is more than a lot of other places can say.

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Originally Posted by limitles

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Originally Posted by Anal_Hershiser

The NBA (especially Mark Cuban and David Stern) are pushing for a rule that only players 23 and younger can participate. They want to focus on the FIBA World Cup where they can make huge profits on advertising. The NBA is livid that they are risking their superstars and getting nothing in return. And if they can't get rich off of it, they are gonna do everything they can do mitigate any risks they assume when their 20 million dollar a year athlete chooses to represent his country. It's already happened in Olympic soccer.

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This speaks more to the money grubbing NBA than it does the IOC.
If professinal team athletes don't want to compete because their "normal" career would be jeopardized then that's their choice.

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Sigh. I have to respond. It's not the athletes who don't want to compete. It's their employer's (NBA owners) who want to make it against the rules for them to compete. Kobe Bryant's exact quote on the age limit was it's a "stupid idea".

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Originally Posted by Anal_Hershiser

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Originally Posted by limitles

This speaks more to the money grubbing NBA than it does the IOC.
If professinal team athletes don't want to compete because their "normal" career would be jeopardized then that's their choice.

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Sigh. I have to respond. It's not the athletes who don't want to compete. It's their employer's (NBA owners) who want to make it against the rules for them to compete. Kobe Bryant's exact quote on the age limit was it's a "stupid idea".

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Yeah I get it. Do you expect the IOC to have some provision for the NBA to be compensated for allowing it's players to compete. Again what advertising did you see at the Olympics that wasn't a tv commercial

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Originally Posted by Crowe Diddly

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Originally Posted by Anal_Hershiser

We simply disagree on what actually goes on. Cities don't put in bids to lose money. If they weren't a money making venture, nobody would want to host. I don't believe any country has hosted simply for a happy feeling they receive in their tummy for a job well done. I'm not by any means stating these as facts, just my personal opinions.

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We're not too far off. Nobody thinks they are gonna lose money, and local politicians and various important people get drunk with the thoughts of being in the brightest possible world spotlight for 2 full weeks, and the businesses that do stand to make a shitload of money from building stadiums, doing security, selling things to a city that they'll need etc etc, they fill the local politicians pockets to convince the masses that fuck everyone else, we'll do this right, make money, and be stars of the world forevermore.

I'm not saying Germany went into this thinking "Let's boost the Kraut spirit no matter what the cost," I'm saying they look back at it as a success and are proud of the job they did, which is a lot more than some cities can say. They managed to do a very solid job and not take a bath while doing it, which is more than a lot of other places can say.

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I think we're farther apart than you think. I don't believe any city has lost money in the last 30 years hosting, regardless of anything being reported. Bids for the Olympic games are more competitive now than ever before. With the acceleration of internet and social media dollars being available, the games bring in more money now than ever before. If you look into the last 2 or 3 Olympics you will find scandals relating to almost every hosting city. These people aren't spending millions of dollars wooing/bribing IOC officials to lose money. I agree a few hosting countries have been left with multimillion dollar stadiums that have become useless, but I have no doubt they made money from hosting.

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Originally Posted by Anal_Hershiser

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Originally Posted by Crowe Diddly

We're not too far off. Nobody thinks they are gonna lose money, and local politicians and various important people get drunk with the thoughts of being in the brightest possible world spotlight for 2 full weeks, and the businesses that do stand to make a shitload of money from building stadiums, doing security, selling things to a city that they'll need etc etc, they fill the local politicians pockets to convince the masses that fuck everyone else, we'll do this right, make money, and be stars of the world forevermore.

I'm not saying Germany went into this thinking "Let's boost the Kraut spirit no matter what the cost," I'm saying they look back at it as a success and are proud of the job they did, which is a lot more than some cities can say. They managed to do a very solid job and not take a bath while doing it, which is more than a lot of other places can say.

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I think we're farther apart than you think. I don't believe any city has lost money in the last 30 years hosting, regardless of anything being reported. Bids for the Olympic games are more competitive now than ever before. With the acceleration of internet and social media dollars being available, the games bring in more money now than ever before. If you look into the last 2 or 3 Olympics you will find scandals relating to almost every hosting city. These people aren't spending millions of dollars wooing/bribing IOC officials to lose money. I agree a few hosting countries have been left with multimillion dollar stadiums that have become useless, but I have no doubt they made money from hosting.

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Athens. How can you say regardless of any thing reported? Are we to take your word over specialists in the field? now we're into lol territory

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Originally Posted by limitles

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Originally Posted by Anal_Hershiser

I think we're farther apart than you think. I don't believe any city has lost money in the last 30 years hosting, regardless of anything being reported. Bids for the Olympic games are more competitive now than ever before. With the acceleration of internet and social media dollars being available, the games bring in more money now than ever before. If you look into the last 2 or 3 Olympics you will find scandals relating to almost every hosting city. These people aren't spending millions of dollars wooing/bribing IOC officials to lose money. I agree a few hosting countries have been left with multimillion dollar stadiums that have become useless, but I have no doubt they made money from hosting.

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Athens. How can you say regardless of any thing reported? Are we to take your word over specialists in the field? now we're into lol territory

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:this

I think the Olympic flame in athens was actual paper money burning.

Make no mistake, there are plenty of Greeks who made money (I assume all rich greeks are "shipping magnates") on the Games, but Greece the country did astoundingly bad.

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Originally Posted by limitles

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Originally Posted by Anal_Hershiser

Sigh. I have to respond. It's not the athletes who don't want to compete. It's their employer's (NBA owners) who want to make it against the rules for them to compete. Kobe Bryant's exact quote on the age limit was it's a "stupid idea".

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Yeah I get it. Do you expect the IOC to have some provision for the NBA to be compensated for allowing it's players to compete. Again what advertising did you see at the Olympics that wasn't a tv commercial

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NO. I'm saying the NBA should fuck off and let the players do what they want while not on the clock. Have you not read my posts in this thread saying that $ is what is ruining the games? You took all of that and wrapped it up into me thinking the IOC should compensate the NBA? I really am done with you in this thread now.

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Originally Posted by Crowe Diddly

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Originally Posted by limitles

Athens. How can you say regardless of any thing reported? Are we to take your word over specialists in the field? now we're into lol territory

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I think the Olympic flame in athens was actual money burning.

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Another example of why arguing with limitles is pointless. Athens lost money hosting the Olympics? I don't even know what to say to that. If you think Greece's financial problems are due to the Olympics, then you will believe anything any "expert" writes.

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Originally Posted by Crowe Diddly

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Originally Posted by limitles

Athens. How can you say regardless of any thing reported? Are we to take your word over specialists in the field? now we're into lol territory

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:this

I think the Olympic flame in athens was actual paper money burning.

Make no mistake, there are plenty of Greeks who made money (I assume all rich greeks are "shipping magnates") on the Games, but Greece the country did astoundingly bad.

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It's a lot easier to blame the Olympics than admit your entire economy and financial structure was flawed from the beginning.