bread and butter willie...Quote:
Originally Posted by WillieMcFML
you are so fucking randomQuote:
Originally Posted by Yebsite
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bread and butter willie...Quote:
Originally Posted by WillieMcFMLyou are so fucking randomQuote:
Originally Posted by Yebsite
I'm not understanding this.
Ray Bitar turned himself in "as part of the process" to get Full Tilt sold to Pokerstars.
However, the indictment and the DOJ's press release seem to indicate that they will be throwing the book at him.
Why would he ever voluntarily hand himself over like this? What is he gaining? Sure, they might treat him with a little more leniency than if he stayed abroad and hid from the indictment, but it's this a -EV move if he's going to face serious jail time?
I guess it's possible that they are talking tough right now but will cut him a sweetheart deal if he pays a giant fine and sells Full Tilt for nothing. Otherwise I just don't get it.
Also, new Charlie and the Chocolate Factory sucked.
The Oompa Loompa songs were hard to understand, and weren't catchy or clever.
Johnny Depp made a crappy Willy Wonka, and came off more like an even-more-deranged Michael Jackson.
The weird backstory about Wonka's father being a dentist didn't fit well. The ending to the original with the elevator flying over the city was much cooler.
I mean, how can you not love this version more?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZhs7w-FzeI
100% guarantee if I show both movies to Benjamin in 4 years, he'll like the 1971 version better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
I have to believe there is an end game here or else he is retarded. I'll set the line at he'll get a 84 month sentence, 18 months knocked off for good behavior, another 12 knocked off for being in some prison program that they offer, last year in a halfway house, all minimum security time. Big payout from Isai upon release. He'll do like 5 years, the last in a halfway house. Probably got to pick location for ease of family visitation. He had to have a pretty big incentive to return.
Guys like Nevin Shapiro who was convicted of a $1 billion Ponzi got 20 years. Another guy I read about who had one about the same as Bitar got 12. They'll condense all the charges down to a few counts, and he'll make some sort of deal officially, though I have to think his lawyers have a strong deal already mostly done. The other two had no real compensation for the victims. This was definitely a crime, but not a full Ponzi in the strictest definition, and Pokerstars paying the victims has to be really good for him.
He's 40, I think he'll be free by 45-47, and do really easy time and come out to a windfall. Just my guess.
I'd rather be him than a guy caught with $200k worth of blow. He'll get out quicker, and do far easier time.
He'll plea down to something fairly minor and do a couple months to a year tops. The DOJ spent years and millions of dollars building these cases, they have to pretend it wasn't simply a cash grab and make it look like it was criminal. THE DOJ has several bank accounts frozen, so if Bitar rats out Lederer and Ferguson they get those and those two will have to face the music (assuming they knew anything about the day-to-day operations of Full Tilt). This HAS to be why he turned himself in (if what he did was so bad why didn't the US extradite him from Ireland???), he must have been told, "just tell us who knew what and we'll charge you with misdeamoner bank fraud". They just want the bank accounts of Lederer, Ferguson et al.
At the end of the day, Full Tilt deal looks to be done; Bitar does less than a year; and the slate is wiped clean for all involved.
The new version might be too scary to show a 5 year old.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
Neither did the book justice.Quote:
Originally Posted by PLOLThe new version might be too scary to show a 5 year old.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
in todays WSJ
By ALEXANDRA BERZON And REED ALBERGOTTI
The chief executive of Full Tilt Poker, the beleaguered one-time Web poker giant, was arrested Monday on a plane that had just landed at John F. Kennedy International Airport as the government unveiled new criminal charges against him related to an alleged Ponzi scheme.
Ray Bitar, 40 years old, is the most significant person yet to turn himself into the Justice Department's 15-month-long effort to prosecute the three one-time leading online poker companies in the U.S. He pleaded not guilty in a hearing in Manhattan federal court Monday, and will be able to be out on bail after posting a $2.5 million bond, a judge ruled.
The government first unsealed criminal indictments against Mr. Bitar, who is from Los Angeles but was residing in Ireland, and 10 others in April 2011 that charged the group with money laundering, bank fraud and illegal gambling. Six members of the group have pleaded guilty to some charges, while five, including Mr. Bitar, remained outside the country and hadn't yet entered pleas. One person among the group—a bank executive—has been sentenced to three months in prison.
Mr. Bitar had remained in Ireland in order to try to negotiate a possible resolution for his company and decided to return now to face charges because his part in that effort is now complete, his attorneys said in court Monday. The company is expected to finalize a deal for a one-time rival, PokerStars, to acquire its assets shortly, a person familiar with the matter said.
A representative for PokerStars said he had no comment on talks involving PokerStars and Full Tilt.
In the indictment unsealed Monday, the government added the allegation that Mr. Bitar and an employee had committed wire fraud by misrepresenting to potential customers that their funds would be safe in order to convince them to transfer money to the company.
The company also used a Ponzi scheme to enrich Full Tilt owners—mainly a group of professional poker players—while covering up financial problems at the company, the government alleged.
A perpetrator of a Ponzi scheme illegally uses money from one group of people to pay off another group.
The alleged schemes, first mentioned by the government in connection with a civil complaint last year, is part of what led the company to fail to pay back poker players credited with $350 million in their player accounts, the government says. Full Tilt has denied it operated a Ponzi scheme.
"I know that a lot of people are very angry at me," Mr. Bitar said in an emailed statement from his lawyers' office earlier Monday. "I understand why. Full Tilt should never have gotten into a position where it could not repay player funds."
John Baughman, an attorney for Mr. Bitar attorney, said, "We hope that we will be able to resolve Mr. Bitar's remaining legal issues in a way that is satisfying to all parties."
The charges last year involving Full Tilt Poker and PokerStars, which were both civil and criminal, have upended the online poker industry in the U.S., which in 2010 represented around $18 billion in wagers from around 1.9 million customers, according to market watcher H2 Gambling Capital. Online poker wagers in the U.S. have plummeted 83% since then. In April 2011 the U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York blocked Full Tilt and PokerStars in the U.S.
Executives at PokerStars have denied the charges against them and the company.
Full Tilt was started around 10 years ago in Los Angeles by Mr. Bitar, a stock trader, and Chris Ferguson, a successful professional poker player. The company moved to Ireland as the U.S. government increasingly clamped down on online gambling companies.
In the indictment unsealed Monday the government portrayed Mr. Bitar as the director of an increasingly out-of-control scheme between 2008 and 2011 to keep profits flowing to himself and the sites owners and continued to do so even as a government investigation and other factors were increasingly causing the site to become depleted of funds.
The site's users, thousands of individual poker players, had set up accounts with Full Tilt in order to have money to wager with, the government says. Yet toward the end of 2010, it became increasingly difficult for Full Tilt to transfer money due to the government's crackdown on payment processing for poker. Full Tilt all but ran out of funds after money was seized by the government, stolen by payment processing companies or never collected from players yet credited to their accounts, the government says, yet portrayed to players that their funds were safe.
At the time of the government crackdown in April 2011, Full Tilt had just $60 million left, the government says. Only then the company stopped making monthly $10 million profit-sharing payments to owners, according to the government and people with knowledge of the situation.
"For the last 15 months, I have worked hard on possible solutions to get the players repaid," Mr. Bitar said in the statement Monday. "Returning today is part of that process. I believe we are near the end of a very long road, and I will continue to do whatever is required to get the players repaid, and I hope that it will happen soon."
Write to Alexandra Berzon at alexandra.berzon@wsj.com and Reed Albergotti at reed.albergotti@wsj.com
A version of this article appeared July 3, 2012, on page B2 in the U.S. edition of The Wall Street Journal, with the headline: CEO of Poker Site Full Tilt Is Arrested.
It's odd that she would characterize it this way,and although I agree that this is the "new" definition of Ponzi scheme --which is no longer a specific crime but more of a method of stealing from Peter to pay Paul-- the classical, and legal, definition always has to do with investment opportunities, which Full Tilt clearly wasn't. He will never be tried for running a ponzi scheme because he never made investment guarantees, or falsified records to show these guarantees were being met when they were not --all the while paying off previous investors with new investors' money. Full Tilt Poker simply allocated funds for one aspect of their business to another. Fraud = Yes; Ponzi scheme = NoQuote:
"A perpetrator of a Ponzi scheme illegally uses money from one group of people to pay off another group."
EDIT: Calling it a Ponzi scheme does explain that they were using money coming in to pay previous debts and such though, which as i said seems to be the new "layman's" definition of the term
Quote:
Originally Posted by LLLNeither did the book justice.Quote:
Originally Posted by PLOL
Roald Dahl is GOD
Government argues against Bail for Bitar
http://t.co/6OlqcCFA
no fucking way he does 5-7 years in the big house.
Agreed, considering the amount of money involved and the fact he's charged with money laundering and bank fraud.Quote:
Originally Posted by mulva
The federal sentencing guideline minimum is about 25 to 30 years in prison.
However, for his cooperation Bitar may get only 10 to 12 years in federal prison plus he will agree to the complete forfeiture of all his assets.
I'm sure Ray Bitar will enjoy getting butt-fucked in prison.
@HowardLederer
Wanted CEO for established poker company. Must be good with finances, honest, able to work without supervision.
#realhowardlederertweets
:noose
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheXFactorAgreed, considering the amount of money involved and the fact he's charged with money laundering and bank fraud.Quote:
Originally Posted by mulva
The federal sentencing guideline minimum is about 25 to 30 years in prison.
However, for his cooperation Bitar may get only 10 to 12 years in federal prison plus he will agree to the complete forfeiture of all his assets.
I'm sure Ray Bitar will enjoy getting butt-fucked in prison.
@HowardLederer
Wanted CEO for established poker company. Must be good with finances, honest, able to work without supervision.
#realhowardlederertweets
:noose
i was saying that in terms of it being less then that. i know he was charged for quite a bit, but there's no way he would come to the usa knowing he's gonna do 5-7 years......i wouldn't be surprised if he does nothing or <1 year in a minimum security prison..and not federal pound me in the ass prison.
He was released on bail today.