You are a retard.Quote:
Originally Posted by 4BET
I think when jasep asked druff to run a bap thread on this site he should have done a little more digging into jasep back round/results etcQuote:
Originally Posted by chinamaniac
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You are a retard.Quote:
Originally Posted by 4BETI think when jasep asked druff to run a bap thread on this site he should have done a little more digging into jasep back round/results etcQuote:
Originally Posted by chinamaniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by chinamaniacThats the thing, even someone solid gold could always fuck up or something could happen. Rollings are infrequent in BAPS but they do happen. Look at Erick Lindgren for example. He used his rep to bet with people when he was broke. He did it on 2+2 as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by 4BET
Bottom line is if you invest in someone do the following
1. Make sure the guy has results
2. Make sure the guy has a good rep and is trustworthy
Jasep did not qualify for # 1
If your going to invest do your homework. Druff is not responsible here IMO
I'm one of the few that still believes Jasep will pay back the investment. That being said you are correct, anyone who invested is at fault for their own actions.
But with all the rollings that have happened and massive info comes out afterwards....why do the people with all the information hold out for so long? The reason I invested was because people who I respect on here (china,druff,drexel,few others) invested themselves or allowed all this to play out.
I will say this, because as LLL said, I am basically out of the loop as I really have not paid attention to 20+ pages of this thread because I never could see a #.
That said, and I may be wrong. But I remember the initial stake and I did not see China or Druff making a stake. Something did not seem right when I saw that.
This is not arm chair QBing. I saw it and was like WTF? I did not say anything at the time, but I sensed there was something not correct. I also thought of 4Bet too. Someone as passionate as himself just not goes randomly make shit up.
You don't think druff has a duty here to try his best to keep the lowlife beggars from running bap threads on his site?Quote:
Originally Posted by BUBBLESYou are a retard.Quote:
Originally Posted by 4BET
NoQuote:
Originally Posted by 4BETYou don't think druff has a duty here to try his best to keep the lowlife beggars from running bap threads on his site?Quote:
Originally Posted by BUBBLES
Seriously youre functionally retarded.Quote:
Originally Posted by 4BETYou don't think druff has a duty here to try his best to keep the lowlife beggars from running bap threads on his site?Quote:
Originally Posted by BUBBLES
Isnt JoeU conected to 22Q? maybe someone (china, druff...) can contact him and ask about the recieved amount.
i dont like to say it but i think if money is missing it has to be recoverd in some way. the ex-owners of vpr have to talk about that. especially after all the noise prior to the event. that is why they dont want those threads over at 2+2.
Before I make a statement on the Jasep situation itself, I want to address 4BET's claim that I should share some responsibility here, because I allowed Jasep to run the BAP.
It is important to understand that all BAP/staking deals here are "let the buyer beware". We are all adults here. We all need to take responsibility for our financial decisions.
My rule regarding needing permission to run BAP/stakes came from the Templar debacle, where a relatively new/unknown user showed up, impressed the community with some funny photoshops, and then jumped into running a BAP and contest where he was actually stealing the money.
I decided after that to change the rules where I would hold all PFA contest money, and that I would need to give permission to anyone wanting to run a BAP.
However, that does not mean that I guarantee such people to be honest and trustworthy. It just means that, in my opinion at the time, the person does not seem to have any red flags, and has been around long enough to where it's not a fly-by-night scammer.
Obviously I do not have the time or resources to do major investigations of financial solvency and history regarding everyone running BAP/stakes here.
I feel very bad when my site is used as a vehicle to scam people, but unfortunately that is inevitable in a place where money frequently changes hands between users. The only way to completely prevent this is to ban ALL monetary deals between users, but that would remove a lot of the fun aspect of the forum, and would also be too controlling on my part. Simply put, I don't feel I have a right to tell you how you can spend your money.
I do want to apologize to 4BET, whose story about Jasep is now looking a lot more truthful. At the time, I will say that Jasep looked like he was likely the one in the right, because he did not have a known history of slow-paying or scamming, and it appeared that 4BET was making a huge deal over nothing. This was especially true because 4BET actually got paid. However, it does appear at this point that 4BET was intentionally slow-paid by Jasep, and that 4BET's initial accusations were correct. I apologize for being one of the people who doubted him at the time.
More coming shortly.
Did you not say you were never posting here again? Not a big deal, I have made several of those, just want to make sure I saw not dreaming. Double negatives FTW.Quote:
Originally Posted by sonatineSeriously youre functionally retarded.Quote:
Originally Posted by 4BET
It was pretty much their fault. Septic tank doesn't appear to be that old. There is like almost no chance he didn't play online. If he was 60 and grew up before computers were widespread and thus had some technology aversion... sure. I've met people like that. So you weigh the 2 options. Is he hiding poor results / previous scams or is he one of these people that don't really exist ? Thats the only reason a website like parttimepoker existed, the ability to verify online results.Quote:
Originally Posted by 4BETYou don't think druff has a duty here to try his best to keep the lowlife beggars from running bap threads on his site?Quote:
Originally Posted by BUBBLES
What about 6 Toes? He did break the story. I get the fact you will never allow his access, but he does deserve an acknowledgement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
:thisQuote:
Originally Posted by pavoe
How many people stuck their necks out for you guys and months later you don't even know if the check has been sent??? My stomach is literally churning that this money might be missing
haha Johnny, you got me, it was a bit late though
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_PHADid you not say you were never posting here again? Not a big deal, I have made several of those, just want to make sure I saw not dreaming. Double negatives FTW.Quote:
Originally Posted by sonatine
Yeah, but that was predicated on the inability to have any sort of substantive discourse here without a shitstorm of subnormal attention whores trying to be funny, interesting, or cogent and not even having the decency to blush when they failed.
With Sixtoedpete gone, Team Fetal Alcohol Syndrome lost a lot of their horsepower and appear to be toeing the line, so chiming in on occasion isnt so painful, especially considering this thread is of personal interest considering my history with jasep, the people this impacts, so on.
No he didn't. You were out of the country and out of the loop.Quote:
Originally Posted by The_PHAWhat about 6 Toes? He did break the story. I get the fact you will never allow his access, but he does deserve an acknowledgement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
You are out of your element here, Donnie.
I'm still hoping he pays it all back like he said he would. He hasn't responded to my emails, and his phone is off... Not looking likely. He said I should receive payment by the 6th of feb, so if I don't on that day I will open a dispute on paypal since I sent the funds as "goods and services". I really wanted to believe in this guy. I still hope that while many things posted here don't hold him in the right light, that he does the right thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by simpdogQuote:
Originally Posted by chinamaniac
I'm one of the few that still believes Jasep will pay back the investment. That being said you are correct, anyone who invested is at fault for their own actions.
But with all the rollings that have happened and massive info comes out afterwards....why do the people with all the information hold out for so long? The reason I invested was because people who I respect on here (china,druff,drexel,few others) invested themselves or allowed all this to play out.
Oh, and I am not banning Jasep. He has a right to come here and defend himself. I hope he does, but I have a feeling we won't be hearing from him again.
I am also not unbanning SixToedPete. His banning had nothing to do with the stuff he posted on his own site about Jasep. He was banned because he posted personal info about one of my family members in the PFA chat room during one of the recent radio shows. He also threatened to post more if I didn't do exactly what he was demanding. Obviously that sort of behavior will get you banned here.
Thanks for admitting that their was truth to my story back then, I do under stand you don't have time to look into everyone past but their was big red flags here, If my story didn't raise the red flags then the way he handled the ipad contest should have been enough to not let him run this bap hereQuote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
I didn't know about the iPad thing until a few hours before Detroit posted about it here.Quote:
Originally Posted by 4BETThanks for admitting that their was truth to my story back then, I do under stand you don't have time to look into everyone past but their was big red flags here, If my story didn't raise the red flags then the way he handled the ipad contest should have been enough to not let him run this bap hereQuote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
Let's review some facts. Jasep has(had) a very public presence on these boards. To the outside investor (sucker?), he hosted radio shows (for years?), did the 22Q charity fundraiser, was trusted by the likes of Druff and Drexel and Chinamaniac... arguably, stand up guys in this community of ours. Jasep seemed pretty open about various things in his life -- the good, the bad and the ugly. There was a question about how "responsible" Jasep is, but never (at least before all this drama came out) about Jasep being untrustworthy or dishonest. Brandon's chinese poker stuff, business partners' reservations, pikachar's involvement, whoever posted about Jasep lying about shipping an ipad -- NONE of that was disclosed by any of you until very recently.Quote:
Originally Posted by chinamaniac
So Jasep's public presence, the fact that the BAP was supported by PFA (allowed to post about it here), the fact that Drexel was the largest investor (we didn't know at the time it was rollover from gambling loss), and "daily accountability" via a playing schedule along with daily videos of progress... weekly payouts... full accounting... Couple all that with a 60-40 split in investors' favor... add in that this is a MAKEUP deal... Do you guys really think he went to all this trouble to roll people for 5k? (which sold out in a matter of a couple of days? why not go for 10k?)
The whole thing does not make sense to me. If Project:Sep was a scam from the beginning, why not offer it without makeup, and just gradually "lose" the stake and then say "sorry guys, low limit live poker is not beatable"? The way this played out makes no sense from a scamming standpoint. It's petty shit. A lot of effort for very little.
If Jasep makes all of his "investors" whole (which he has promised to do, btw), a lot of this criticism falls by the wayside, imo. In spite of all of these attacks, I hope he does the right thing and proves that Project:Sep was not a scam.
I dont know how long ago you sent the money, but you only have 45 days to file a dispute with Paypal.Quote:
Originally Posted by handicapmeI'm still hoping he pays it all back like he said he would. He hasn't responded to my emails, and his phone is off... Not looking likely. He said I should receive payment by the 6th of feb, so if I don't on that day I will open a dispute on paypal since I sent the funds as "goods and services". I really wanted to believe in this guy. I still hope that while many things posted here don't hold him in the right light, that he does the right thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by simpdog
I dunno, 6 Toes added some content. Same with Jewdonk.Quote:
Originally Posted by sonatineQuote:
Originally Posted by The_PHA
Yeah, but that was predicated on the inability to have any sort of substantive discourse here without a shitstorm of subnormal attention whores trying to be funny, interesting, or cogent and not even having the decency to blush when they failed.
With Sixtoedpete gone, Team Fetal Alcohol Syndrome lost a lot of their horsepower and appear to be toeing the line, so chiming in on occasion isnt so painful, especiallly considering this thread is of personal interest considering my history with jasep, the people this impacts, so on.
It's tough having to carry the water around here.
I believe one of the reasons why Donkdown collapsed was the jettison of Felon, Jewdonk, Wrenchjockey and Hoser.
There is not many of us left from 2008. We are going the way of the Republicans and other taxpayers. Very sad, but true
This is my only problem with any of these scams/etc. Behind closed doors this info comes out but then it is hours/days/weeks before any of it is passed down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
Now the shit storm happens and you have no problem wasting your time writing paragraphs about the situation and replying to posts......but you're just like many of the people earlier in the thread. You do not have a stake in this bap and have nothing to lose.
I think the likelihood of being paid goes down with each post made in this thread. At some point his name will be so muddy that there won't be a reason to pay.
Ok say he makes good on the bap what about selling part of VPR for 6000 when the site was never worth 6.00 and the worst part he did this without china and brandon knowingQuote:
Originally Posted by SandwichLet's review some facts. Jasep has(had) a very public presence on these boards. To the outside investor (sucker?), he hosted radio shows (for years?), did the 22Q charity fundraiser, was trusted by the likes of Druff and Drexel and Chinamaniac... arguably, stand up guys in this community of ours. Jasep seemed pretty open about various things in his life -- the good, the bad and the ugly. There was a question about how "responsible" Jasep is, but never (at least before all this drama came out) about Jasep being untrustworthy or dishonest. Brandon's chinese poker stuff, business partners' reservations, pikachar's involvement, whoever posted about Jasep lying about shipping an ipad -- NONE of that was disclosed by any of you until very recently.Quote:
Originally Posted by chinamaniac
So Jasep's public presence, the fact that the BAP was supported by PFA (allowed to post about it here), the fact that Drexel was the largest investor (we didn't know at the time it was rollover from gambling loss), and "daily accountability" via a playing schedule along with daily videos of progress... weekly payouts... full accounting... Couple all that with a 60-40 split in investors' favor... add in that this is a MAKEUP deal... Do you guys really think he went to all this trouble to roll people for 5k? (which sold out in a matter of a couple of days? why not go for 10k?)
The whole thing does not make sense to me. If Project:Sep was a scam from the beginning, why not offer it without makeup, and just gradually "lose" the stake and then say "sorry guys, low limit live poker is not beatable"? The way this played out makes no sense from a scamming standpoint. It's petty shit. A lot of effort for very little.
If Jasep makes all of his "investors" whole (which he has promised to do, btw), a lot of this criticism falls by the wayside, imo. In spite of all of these attacks, I hope he does the right thing and proves that Project:Sep was not a scam.
i would like to know what Kevin has to say, he sounds like a pretty decent guy on the radio and he seems to have known Johnny the longest
With all of these allegations there are two sides to every story, and I haven't heard his. "Selling part of VPR for 6000... without [his business partners] knowing" is one way to look at it. I'd want to see the documents, agreements (read: evidence) to determine what the real story on that is.Quote:
Originally Posted by 4BET
This isn't a Templar type situation where nobody knows any details about the guy -- people have his personal info, right? He's reachable. (maybe less so today than a few days ago, but in general).
When I first posted about Jasep one year ago it was not to be attacked by the trolls/ haters here, I wanted to let people know i think he is a cheat to avoid this exact problem we have here, I hate to see people get scammed / cheatedQuote:
Originally Posted by Dan DruffI didn't know about the iPad thing until a few hours before Detroit posted about it here.Quote:
Originally Posted by 4BET
I keep wanting to post my analysis of this situation, but I want to reply to everyone's direct questions first.Quote:
Originally Posted by simpdogThis is my only problem with any of these scams/etc. Behind closed doors this info comes out but then it is hours/days/weeks before any of it is passed down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
Now the shit storm happens and you have no problem wasting your time writing paragraphs about the situation and replying to posts......but you're just like many of the people earlier in the thread. You do not have a stake in this bap and have nothing to lose.
I think the likelihood of being paid goes down with each post made in this thread. At some point his name will be so muddy that there won't be a reason to pay.
You raise a good point, but whenever these things are presented to me "behind the scenes", I have to make a decision.
Basically, I have to keep people's secrets if they tell me things in confidence. If I promise to keep a secret and then announce it on the forum (supposedly for the good of the userbase), then nobody will ever trust me to keep any secrets in the future, and I will never be told stuff like this again. That would be counter-productive to protecting the userbase from future scams.
However, at the same time, I can't sit by and watch people get scammed when I know something that the public doesn't.
By the time I found out something was possibly wrong, Jasep had collected all of the money. There was no more to be scammed -- at least not until people came calling for THIS money. Therefore, since it looked like the deed was already done, I did not feel comfortable violating people's confidence and outing what they wanted me to hold back.
Furthermore, much of the "evidence" was circumstantial at the time, and many involved did not want to drag Jasep's good name through the mud unless they were relatively certain something was wrong.
Once enough evidence came to light (thanks to investigating by China and Brandon, primarily), the decision was made to out everything.
I guess im the only one who thinks that Drexel was shady as hell. He knew Jasep was broke and not only didnt he tell anyone about it he rolled money that didnt exsist into the bap. The people buying in thought the bap was for 5k but Drexel knew he didnt have 5k. Not to mention Drexel has a big name and when it says you invested 2k in jasep that makes everyone else feel its a safe investment. Not that it couldnt lose but that they wouldnt get rolled.
It probably wasn't a scam. Most loans to poker lowlifes are based on them hoping they'll win and pay you back. The problem is they really don't care. I've seen other people say he is "basically a good guy". WHY? Do bad guys who aren't straight gangsters go around trying to look "bad" ? Ever? No. In fact, they put far more effort into trying to look "good". Those are the warning signs. Fucking hooks. Hate em, but respect them at the same time. I wish I had been born a sociopath.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandwich
I hadn't even paid much attention to Jasep and had nothing to say until I read his bullshit about offering everyone respect. I then decided to rip into him and tell people whats up. These geeks have no clue. People meet a guy, he gives em a mental handy and his rep is near golden. All one can do is sit back and laugh at it all.
I didn't tell my story earlier because Jasep had my real name and address. I did not want to give him any reason to post it if I told my story. Kinda like he did with the 6toed letter at VPR. The only reason I PM'd druff before I posted was to ask him to keep an eye out and please delete my name if Jasep posted it.Quote:
Originally Posted by simpdogThis is my only problem with any of these scams/etc. Behind closed doors this info comes out but then it is hours/days/weeks before any of it is passed down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
Now the shit storm happens and you have no problem wasting your time writing paragraphs about the situation and replying to posts......but you're just like many of the people earlier in the thread. You do not have a stake in this bap and have nothing to lose.
I think the likelihood of being paid goes down with each post made in this thread. At some point his name will be so muddy that there won't be a reason to pay.
I very trusted member here and part owner of vpr posted this here, I didn't pull the fact he sold 6k worth of the site out of the skyQuote:
Originally Posted by SandwichWith all of these allegations there are two sides to every story, and I haven't heard his. "Selling part of VPR for 6000... without [his business partners] knowing" is one way to look at it. I'd want to see the documents, agreements (read: evidence) to determine what the real story on that is.Quote:
Originally Posted by 4BET
This isn't a Templar type situation where nobody knows any details about the guy -- people have his personal info, right? He's reachable. (maybe less so today than a few days ago, but in general).
Go back and read exactly what that very trusted member wrote. Seems like the 6k deal was done before vpr even existed... So I am not sure it is accurate for you to say "he sold 6k worth of the site [by which you mean the site that he owned with china and drexel". Like I say, I don't know what the exact facts are. At the same time, I'm not accusing you of pulling anything out of the sky.Quote:
Originally Posted by 4BET
Ok so when the sites merged into one and china and brandon owed a piece jasep never told them their was another owner, Care to explain that?Quote:
Originally Posted by SandwichGo back and read exactly what that very trusted member wrote. Seems like the 6k deal was done before vpr even existed... So I am not sure it is accurate for you to say "he sold 6k worth of the site [by which you mean the site that he owned with china and drexel". Like I say, I don't know what the exact facts are. At the same time, I'm not accusing you of pulling anything out of the sky.Quote:
Originally Posted by 4BET
He was probably thinking the same thing I was, Jasep doesn't have any money and this Stake is his chance to pull himself up off the ground. My investmnent was also a rollover from previous BAP because I believed he couldn't pay me if I asked for the $200 and didn't want to make things worse for him or the other people he owed money. I'd also done a dozen transactions with the guy including the waterslide thingy, where he could have gotten $100 out of me and put me off til the spring if he needed to (which is when I asked him to bring it to me). To me everything about the guy screamed Hustler, but with some ethics. Which could still be true if he makes things rightQuote:
Originally Posted by ShadyJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4BETOk so when the sites merged into one and china and brandon owed a piece jasep never told them their was another owner, Care to explain that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandwich
No, I can't explain that. That's my point. "We don't know". Everything you say is making assumptions -- "sites merged"... "another owner".... Anyway enough of the tangent -- all this is for Drexel and China and Jasep and Pikachar to explain.
I posted earlier what happened with 22q. I sent him donations I collected and he said he had a bank draft and was meeting the guy that weekend. At the time I trusted he'd do that. I hope he did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve-O
Simp, As an investor I know where you are coming from. I actually just spoke to Jasep. He has asked all his investors to give him until the 6th like he said to refund everything. Also, this 22q stuff, let's wait and see (although I'll bet that he's in the clear with this... not a big bet, but still think he didn't do what is being accused). I don't think he is going to scam us (investors, I don't have any say in anything else) since he has responded otherwise he would just ignore it. I have filed claims with paypal ONLY to protect myself, not because I think I won't get paid back. He understands my move here. I hope he pulls this out and proves a lot of this to be wrong. We will find out soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by simpdogThis is my only problem with any of these scams/etc. Behind closed doors this info comes out but then it is hours/days/weeks before any of it is passed down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
Now the shit storm happens and you have no problem wasting your time writing paragraphs about the situation and replying to posts......but you're just like many of the people earlier in the thread. You do not have a stake in this bap and have nothing to lose.
I think the likelihood of being paid goes down with each post made in this thread. At some point his name will be so muddy that there won't be a reason to pay.
I think the reason to pay went out the door as soon as China hit submit reply.Quote:
Originally Posted by simpdogThis is my only problem with any of these scams/etc. Behind closed doors this info comes out but then it is hours/days/weeks before any of it is passed down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
I think the likelihood of being paid goes down with each post made in this thread. At some point his name will be so muddy that there won't be a reason to pay.
Kiss the money goodbye, and let's move onto the serious accusation that Q22 may have been a sham