Printable View
The data do not support your proposition that he dollar has been significantly devalued.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidewinder
They are devaluing the dollar.Quote:
Originally Posted by gimmick
Bitcoin may or may not be the safe haven. It's not final yet. The devaluing of the currency is final.
HFSP if you don't see this and take measures to protect whatever wealth you might have.
The printing money bit doesn't really have any negative impact when everyone is doing it. The other thing is that if it's supported by real growth then it's also fairly stable. That's the assumption.Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter SobchakThe data do not support your proposition that he dollar has been significantly devalued.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidewinder
But anyways to see any kind of real inflation you need unilateral action and shrinking economy. Those things were true for Germany, Zimbabwe and Venezuela.
Currencies only devalue against other currencies. When they all increase output nothing really happens. As long as there's decent inequality nothing happens to the price of milk. There's no significant increase with the price of consumer goods because demand itself is fairly stable and printing to a degree counters loss of income or is just feeding the asset bubble. Most of the time when a trillion is printed about 3 dollars goes to excess milk.
The purchasing power of the dollar goes down about 10% a year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter SobchakThe data do not support your proposition that he dollar has been significantly devalued.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidewinder
What do u buy that's cheaper?
I do not know if BTC is where capital goes to fade devaluation, but it is an indisputable fact inflation and asset prices are going up as they print this money.
So far, capital is going to BTC as a safe haven from currency devaluation. Whether or not this continues, who knows. It is undeniable this is what has thus far happened. There is no debate.
Are you smoking crack? Where are you getting that the purchasing power of the dollar goes down 10% per year? At that rate we'd all be living in the forests after a few years.Quote:
Originally Posted by SidewinderThe purchasing power of the dollar goes down about 10% a year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Sobchak
What do u buy that's cheaper?
I do not know if BTC is where capital goes to fade devaluation, but it is an indisputable fact inflation and asset prices are going up as they print this money.
So far, capital is going to BTC as a safe haven from currency devaluation. Whether or not this continues, who knows. It is undeniable this is what has thus far happened. There is no debate.
Here's US inflation since 1990. Take a look at the period since the Great Recession, which is the period when we've been "printing all this money." Inflation is LOW. https://www.statista.com/statistics/...sa-since-1990/
The Fed's stated goal is to target about 2% inflation per year. Looks like they've been doing pretty well.
You also are not taking into account that inflation is partially offset but rising incomes and by improved quality of many consumer goods that you can buy at comparable prices. For example you can buy a laptop for $1,000 20 years ago or spend the same amount of money today and get a far better product.
I'm not saying that things are cheaper. I'm saying inflation is not a problem right now and although nobody can predict the future it's not likely to become a problem in the near term.
If it really does become a problem, LOL if you think putting a significant portion of your assets in bitcoin is going to save them. If inflation spikes (which it won't), the cure will be an increase in interest rates, which the Fed did to successfully tame inflation in the late 1970s. Short-term pain, but it worked. And if that happens, you're going to want assets denominated in USD. Those 30 year treasury bonds that nobody buys now will look a lot better when they return 10% rather than 3%.
The people who think there's some magic asset class that will protect you from some coming apocalypse (inflation or otherwise) are no different than any other silly conspiracy theorist. Why are people willing to call someone a "doomer" if they are careful about Covid but not apply the same label people who think the economy is going to collapse and the only way out will be to hold BTC/gold/guns/whatever? They've been saying this for decades.
:lol2
1913 $100 was about $3.87 in 2019. Average salary was about $750 a year in 1913 and about 40k in 2019. So the 1913 dollar is about 1/26, but salaries in 2019 are 53x. Ratio of median household income has gone up even more. The end result is that Americans get 2-3x as much shit now than a century ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by SidewinderThe purchasing power of the dollar goes down about 10% a year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Sobchak
What do u buy that's cheaper?
I do not know if BTC is where capital goes to fade devaluation, but it is an indisputable fact inflation and asset prices are going up as they print this money.
So far, capital is going to BTC as a safe haven from currency devaluation. Whether or not this continues, who knows. It is undeniable this is what has thus far happened. There is no debate.
Now obv productivity has gone to the moon in that century, but consumers still reap some benefits out of it. Kids carry devices in their pocket that have 100k times the computational power that was used in the first moon landing.
Dollars don't treat BTC as a safe haven. It's just another speculative asset. There are 3rd world countries where crypto functions a bit like a safe haven. Mostly because their currency and banking system is even more volatile. For emerging markets it has some value in hiding assets.
For dollars it's bonds, gold and whatever you think is too big to fail. Global names if you're afraid dollar might crater in an event that wouldn't touch rest of the world. Loss of reserve currency status would be that event. Currently it's not in EU's or China's best interest. Another 4 years of Trump might have gotten you there. With Biden nah. He might need two terms to fix Trumps one.
There's been some chatter towards US heading more to renters economy that's a sign of late stage capitalism.
I looked at median income to median house prices ratio in the last 50 years and nothing out of the ordinary popped up there. It's been in the 3-4 region forever.
Millennials were something like 32% for new homeowners around 2016 and it was the lowest for a while. Is it just the cost of education and credit costs in general or something else? I didn't look too deep.
There's obv some outliers like parts of California and NY where income to property ratio is something silly like 100-1 that didn't exist before in such large areas, but that's not enough to move the whole country.
I'm too lazy to look up everything, so any ideas? Medical costs, insurance models in general and/or something else? What are the outliers? Why are millennials fucked?
I don't think myself that Millenials are fucked at all, but as a whole Generation they were raised differently. My mom and dad Baby boomers didn't even ever have a computer, let alone in schools. Now its a must have and given out. Times are just different now when the Millenial generation came along. And they tend to enjoy a more computer generated world, or easier then maybe the Baby Boomers. The problem is if you become too dependent on the technology entirely you do sort of cheat your own self of some more meaningful self attributes maybe. But back to the point MIllenials aren't fucked at all, they just came up at a time the whole world was very Tech savvy, and sort of dependent on that. They dont necessarily know the 'Hammer and Nail' type of Generation I dont think.Quote:
Originally Posted by gimmick
And they lean more Liberal, if not Libertarian. And this is also why long-run I really do think the Republican Party here in America is in a dire point now. Millennials are never going to be Republicans as a whole Generation, not a chance in hell. They are most likely of course Liberal leaners if not all out Libertarians (like Micon lol..) but yeah now im digressing, I have to shower but I have a lot more to say on this one but I Have to think about it in the more now, ill be back in a bit haha..
Oh and im a 41 year old actually from what I understand one of the first few monthers born into Gen-X too, the first couple months in 1979. When I see the entire Generation of the Millenials and compare them to what I know, or saw. Its just so fundamentally different, as is what I saw compared to my parents, Boomers.
=)
Looks like the world isn't ready for the $60k bitcoin just yet.
Markets are all always 'Cyclical' as is Bitcoin. The peaks and Valleys and how high or low will depend greatly of course on a, whollle lotta real world variables..Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
What is going on here with Bitcoin now, is just a Consolidation of sorts. Some Regression should have been expected here at some point. Again because all Market's 'Cycle' right. Nothing ever goes, actually directly uphill as many seem to wish in the shorter-Term. So this here, is profit pulling, and probably some consolidation. You probably have some of the HODLER's or original early adopters not liking the fact now known that is really is Wall St and Professional 'Asset Classes' and people getting in now. And to some, a lot of things going on may ruin what they always thought, Bitcoin Wise. Incorrectly we now see, and this recent Price Spike in 2021 is totally, now understood to be Wall St and the Professional's buying in now.
And with that will now forever, which Bitcoin never has had before, create a more Stable and high obviously Bitcoin price moving forward now =).....
https://www.coindesk.com/blockchain-...r-bitcoin-legsQuote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
"This Blockchain Indicator Might Show Bitcoin Rally Has Legs"
The Bull run or 'Rally' isn't over yet Druff.. This is just a consolidation, and some profit pulling happening here. As should be expected with such a massive run up Bitcoin is NOT done rising yet either. This Bull run is not done yet, it's just a consolidation and some profit pulling happening now. All indications and fundamentals are actually pointing to another BULL run here coming, and it will be up toward 70k this time maybe 75k. After that and depending on many things, next is 100k. Now realistically there is some headwinds possible the U.S and Over Regulation is one for sure, but that does seem like it is on the Horizon imo at all, if anything Janet Yellen seems very intent on cleaning the crypto space up now moving forward, and that imo will help Bitcoin value sum total.
Probably still recovering from the time in that god aweful snail costume on Masked SingerQuote:
Originally Posted by sonatine
LOL.
Real inflation, not fake. The fed/governments definition of inflation is LOL: http://www.shadowstats.com/ . You have commuted the "appeal to authority" logical fallacyQuote:
Originally Posted by Walter SobchakAre you smoking crack? Where are you getting that the purchasing power of the dollar goes down 10% per year? At that rate we'd all be living in the forests after a few years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidewinder
Here's US inflation since 1990. Take a look at the period since the Great Recession, which is the period when we've been "printing all this money." Inflation is LOW. https://www.statista.com/statistics/...sa-since-1990/
The Fed's stated goal is to target about 2% inflation per year. Looks like they've been doing pretty well.
You also are not taking into account that inflation is partially offset but rising incomes and by improved quality of many consumer goods that you can buy at comparable prices. For example you can buy a laptop for $1,000 20 years ago or spend the same amount of money today and get a far better product.
I'm not saying that things are cheaper. I'm saying inflation is not a problem right now and although nobody can predict the future it's not likely to become a problem in the near term.
If it really does become a problem, LOL if you think putting a significant portion of your assets in bitcoin is going to save them. If inflation spikes (which it won't), the cure will be an increase in interest rates, which the Fed did to successfully tame inflation in the late 1970s. Short-term pain, but it worked. And if that happens, you're going to want assets denominated in USD. Those 30 year treasury bonds that nobody buys now will look a lot better when they return 10% rather than 3%.
The people who think there's some magic asset class that will protect you from some coming apocalypse (inflation or otherwise) are no different than any other silly conspiracy theorist. Why are people willing to call someone a "doomer" if they are careful about Covid but not apply the same label people who think the economy is going to collapse and the only way out will be to hold BTC/gold/guns/whatever? They've been saying this for decades.
:lol2
BTC won't save us from anything (financial apocalypse, doom, etc) as seen when there are liquidity issues, BTC is liquidated as well. I never claimed it would. You have created the "straw man" fallacy.
Interest rates can't rise bc it would pop a big debt bubble. I don't know what fallacy you committed here other than to say they can't raise rates bc there is too much corporate and municipal and federal debt. It would be an unmitigated disaster. How do we know this? Their refusal to raise them, their talks of YCC, the fact they (the fed) buys 120 billion dollars a month in treasuries, etc, etc, etc...
I do not think and did not argue the economy is going to collapse. Congrats, you straw manned again.
So let's start over:
The thesis is BTC is a hedge against a devaluation of the currency and the printing of USD. Let me be very clear: THIS IS NOT IN DISPUTE. THIS IS THE THESIS.
Is it true, I don't know but corporations are buying BTC to hedge against the depreciating asset that is cash. How do we know this? The CEOs told us (Elon, Saylor) and the market told us because the markets when evaluating a company will not give u 1 for 1 for cash on hand in their evaluation of a companies value. How do we know this, again these CEOs have told us.
Nothing I stated is an opinion. It is all fact. Is it true that BTC is a hedge against run away inflation and a devalued currency?
There are at least 2 (maybe 3) people I know for sure that are ** BILLIONAIRES ** from crypto in the poker world.
Time will tell. At some point it becomes possible the crypto billionaires in poker were right and you are a fucking idiot.
You are the worst arguer I've ever seen. You can't keep making up arguments that people that don't make and post gifs refuting these imaginary arguments.
If you don't own bitcoin you are effectively shorting it. Think about how fucking stupid that looks over the past 10 years.
Uh... Referencing the opinion of a single source who uses his website to promote his “expert” market advice service is a classic example of commiting the “appeal to authority” logical fallacy, and that’s assuming that this single source is a credible expert and not a pseudo-expert who has found a niche for his self-promoted “expert” advice.Quote:
Originally Posted by SidewinderReal inflation, not fake. The fed/governments definition of inflation is LOL: http://www.shadowstats.com/ . You have [committed] the "appeal to authority" logical fallacyQuote:
Originally Posted by Walter Sobchak
Quote:
Originally Posted by SidewinderReal inflation, not fake. The fed/governments definition of inflation is LOL: http://www.shadowstats.com/ . You have commuted the "appeal to authority" logical fallacyQuote:
Originally Posted by Walter Sobchak
BTC won't save us from anything (financial apocalypse, doom, etc) as seen when there are liquidity issues, BTC is liquidated as well. I never claimed it would. You have created the "straw man" fallacy.
Interest rates can't rise bc it would pop a big debt bubble. I don't know what fallacy you committed here other than to say they can't raise rates bc there is too much corporate and municipal and federal debt. It would be an unmitigated disaster. How do we know this? Their refusal to raise them, their talks of YCC, the fact they (the fed) buys 120 billion dollars a month in treasuries, etc, etc, etc...
I do not think and did not argue the economy is going to collapse. Congrats, you straw manned again.
So let's start over:
The thesis is BTC is a hedge against a devaluation of the currency and the printing of USD. Let me be very clear: THIS IS NOT IN DISPUTE. THIS IS THE THESIS.
Is it true, I don't know but corporations are buying BTC to hedge against the depreciating asset that is cash. How do we know this? The CEOs told us (Elon, Saylor) and the market told us because the markets when evaluating a company will not give u 1 for 1 for cash on hand in their evaluation of a companies value. How do we know this, again these CEOs have told us.
Nothing I stated is an opinion. It is all fact. Is it true that BTC is a hedge against run away inflation and a devalued currency?
There are at least 2 (maybe 3) people I know for sure that are ** BILLIONAIRES ** from crypto in the poker world.
Time will tell. At some point it becomes possible the crypto billionaires in poker were right and you are a fucking idiot.
You are the worst arguer I've ever seen. You can't keep making up arguments that people that don't make and post gifs refuting these imaginary arguments.
If you don't own bitcoin you are effectively shorting it. Think about how fucking stupid that looks over the past 10 years.
“To not take a position in Bitcoin is taking a position on Bitcoin”.
:facepalm :doublefacepalmQuote:
Originally Posted by SidewinderReal inflation, not fake. The fed/governments definition of inflation is LOL: http://www.shadowstats.com/ . You have commuted the "appeal to authority" logical fallacyQuote:
Originally Posted by Walter Sobchak
BTC won't save us from anything (financial apocalypse, doom, etc) as seen when there are liquidity issues, BTC is liquidated as well. I never claimed it would. You have created the "straw man" fallacy.
Interest rates can't rise bc it would pop a big debt bubble. I don't know what fallacy you committed here other than to say they can't raise rates bc there is too much corporate and municipal and federal debt. It would be an unmitigated disaster. How do we know this? Their refusal to raise them, their talks of YCC, the fact they (the fed) buys 120 billion dollars a month in treasuries, etc, etc, etc...
I do not think and did not argue the economy is going to collapse. Congrats, you straw manned again.
So let's start over:
The thesis is BTC is a hedge against a devaluation of the currency and the printing of USD. Let me be very clear: THIS IS NOT IN DISPUTE. THIS IS THE THESIS.
Is it true, I don't know but corporations are buying BTC to hedge against the depreciating asset that is cash. How do we know this? The CEOs told us (Elon, Saylor) and the market told us because the markets when evaluating a company will not give u 1 for 1 for cash on hand in their evaluation of a companies value. How do we know this, again these CEOs have told us.
Nothing I stated is an opinion. It is all fact. Is it true that BTC is a hedge against run away inflation and a devalued currency?
There are at least 2 (maybe 3) people I know for sure that are ** BILLIONAIRES ** from crypto in the poker world.
Time will tell. At some point it becomes possible the crypto billionaires in poker were right and you are a fucking idiot.
You are the worst arguer I've ever seen. You can't keep making up arguments that people that don't make and post gifs refuting these imaginary arguments.
If you don't own bitcoin you are effectively shorting it. Think about how fucking stupid that looks over the past 10 years.
Can Druff upload a GIF of Micon or NeverWinPoker.com and sell it for big money?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpROwouRo_M
So I have been building up a balance playing online poker, which of course is a good thing. I hadn't cashed out just because bitcoin was unstable. So I decided this morning was the right time. Seemed to be going back up, and was sitting around 56k and change.
I did a large cashout.
I went to sleep.
Woke up and bitcoin was 52k.
:baddecision
Yeah....I had been buying up REN, because why not? And it just tanked today. Feel your pain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
If you have been waiting to buy you going to get your chance in the next 2 weeks.
Should trade with a high 4 handle soon, my guess is we will some consolidation in the 46/47 area and then it will be off to 76 (over time, like months).
Bitcoin was $100 when this thread was started.
Faced with this knowledge, you idiots blither on, arguing about the utility of BTC.
I can't even imagine....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidewinder
https://i.imgur.com/XGUgpqr.jpg
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonatine
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/exclu...015109185.html
lotta weak hands about to get shaken out.
Seems like a lot of Bitcoiners shitposting on gold.
10 year is up 150% in 6 months. Gold is down from 1900 to 1700. Last time we had that big a move in rates back in 1981 it was 1981 and gold went from 925 to 300. Obviously we are in a much much different world now.
Had my cold storage ledger on me when I was in a boating accident.Quote:
Originally Posted by desertrunner
Anyone have anything to add on ETH?
Thinking I may buy one to hang onto.
I have been holding strong on the 6 different coins I own through this cycle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daly
Sometime in the next few months I will take profits, but not on BTC and ETH.
BTC and ETH are long term holds.
I think ETH outgains BTC the next few months.
Bitcoin Cash (bch) is the pivot at this point for sure.
Bitcoin is now touching, and may go to a record high here shortly, or today
$60,400+ a Bitcoin is lol, rich people game now or the smart sophisticated money, Bitcoin Cash is only ~$600 per and if it dipped to say $400 obviously great. But it is more efficient and by design better useful so could be ready for more wide spread adoption. And Bitcoin is now getting to a price point that is beyond people, or their interest. Bitcoin Cash does fit many more people 'Crypt' interest price point wise, id imagine. So lots of good when you think and how it is useful, as a sorta segue to what the Bitcoin is. I like it, but glgl =)
i would rather own fractions of bitcoin than bitcoin cash. bitcoin cash is a better p2p payment option than bitcoin, but there are faster, cheaper p2p payment options than bch. and none of these payment coins are going to a million dollars like btc even if they have bitcoin in their name.
I would rather be gifted .001 BTC than 1 BCH. They call it Bitcoin trash. Has security issues.
The BTC to BCH ratio used to be 5 to 1 and now it is almost 100-1. I do not think the gap will close.
In the past year, you would be hard pressed to find any crypto that hasn't increased 500%.
BCH just made a nice run to get up 300% from a year ago.
I think you could throw a dart at the top 20 market cap coins and do better than BCH.
Break out your Commodore 64-
https://www.hackster.io/news/you-can...4-49057d732c47
there is a pervasive concern growing that coinbases options going liquid is going to be the moment chinas been waiting for to attack the bitcoin network in earnest.
What are you hearing? Care to explain a bit?Quote:
Originally Posted by sonatine
That's actually a good point which hasn't been considered very much.Quote:
Originally Posted by sonatine
So far we haven't seen any serious, coordinated attacks on these cryptocurrency networks, but that doesn't mean that one isn't eventually coming.
If it's state sponsored, Lord help the crypto community.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan DruffThat's actually a good point which hasn't been considered very much.Quote:
Originally Posted by sonatine
So far we haven't seen any serious, coordinated attacks on these cryptocurrency networks, but that doesn't mean that one isn't eventually coming.
If it's state sponsored, Lord help the crypto community.
above and beyond wiping out american generational wealth like thanos snapping his fingers, it would bolster the strength of the digital yuan and in doing so, undermine the global reliance on USD.
tactically, its very hard to imagine why they wouldnt drop the hammer.
o.k. so on this completely incorrect tardoTINE logic..Quote:
Originally Posted by sonatineQuote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
above and beyond wiping out american generational wealth like thanos snapping his fingers, it would bolster the strength of the digital yuan and in doing so, undermine the global reliance on USD.
tactically, its very hard to imagine why they wouldnt drop the hammer.
Bitcoin is the United States Government tadroTINE Satoshi Nakamoto is the U.S. fn Government WAKE up dude. The U.S Goverment created Bitcoin, wrote the White Paper, floated it in the middle of the worst Economic Collapse since the Great Depression in U.S. history. and Voila this white peper is wirtten and a 'Digital Currency' is floated the idea.
Its them 100% undoubtedly, unequivocally. I know it it them now, and why not 1 satoshi has ever moved or been sold from the Genesis block (1st block mined), is because it never had been HUMAN but Bitcoin is the Government, and that is why not 1 satoshi has ever been sold to today and now 60k+ a bitcoin and not 1 satoshi has ever moved from the Genesis Block because it isn't human duh, but it is however GOVERMENT and so that is why not 1 satoshi has ever moved from the 1st block even mined, bc its not human and never had been. It is however the U.S. Government Im fully convinced now, and that is why not 1 satoshi has ever sold, and never will. Its because Bitcoin is Government controlled and not by humans clearly...
It is my unequivocal belief that I do know exactly who created the Bitcoin, and that it is The United States Government..
It is my belief it is actually the U.S. Government. That also creates another massive flaw though in the Bitcoin. In that if I am correct, that Bitcoin is U.S. Government created then it never ever has actually been 'Decentralized' therefore. Is that a fundamental flaw in this whole model, and its reality IDK. I really dont but that realization that Bitcoin is and never has been actually 'Decentralized' may lead a lot of the OG people or HODLERs bolting for the door. IDK but when this reality gets figured out THAT affect on the Bitcoin economy is what I actually am truly curious about now...
The Economy really was falling apart for real 2007-2008 and then this 'White Paper' is written and in the most covert op circumstances even that is just so lol, and gubmint imo that fact, satoshi just disappeared, or is dead right. That is the only thing that makes sense, obviously. LOL yeah, I guess lmao... Maybe to the square logical ones, but others we see things for exactly what they likely are. We don't believe in 'pie in the sky' chit.. But back on point here, Bitcoin being
created by the U.S. Government also, if you submit the gubmint in any question you may have about bitcoin, answers literally every question perfectly. Too perfectly too, it explains it all. But yeah lol, so tardoTINE that is precisely why 'tactically' not a damn thing has been doe or ever will be done.
Probably started as some 'Super Top Secret' high level internal maybe DARPA/NSA but some big entity within the Government created the Bitcoin and this 'Digital' new Value system, why it could be for a ton of reasons obv, to see if it had Utility, lots of reasons. And we see that it does, adn so does the Government now, so what is the end-game then. I don't ever think its to reveal this fact, and truth ever in fact. Id imagine whatever it is 10 years ago, they started trying to figure out, they are totally still actually right smack in the middle of too. So the gubmint isnt going to ever reveal this what I believe to be reality of course.
it's them for sure its the Government unequivocally...