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To get others to step in would require the Treasury to offer higher effective rates to buyers, especially if China did a one-two punch of also moving the money out of the US dollar.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daly
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Originally Posted by MumblesBadly
Well thought out Mubles and everything here is true. But the point is others will step in Fed or no. The whole thing doesn’t come crashing down for the US, which was the original point.
New Zealanders are receiving home visits from police to check on their political views, with one individual claiming that authorities asked him if he supported Donald Trump.
https://summit.news/2019/05/13/new-z...itical-police/
You have to hand it to the Mossad. Their mass shooting operations really do get results.
Why would the Mossad want to engender sympathy and tolerance for the Muslim population? And have their main man Trump become a swear word in New Zealand? I’m just curious how this benefits the Jooz in this theory?Quote:
Originally Posted by devidee
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Originally Posted by BCRWhy would the Mossad want to engender sympathy and tolerance for the Muslim population? And have their main man Trump become a swear word in New Zealand? I’m just curious how this benefits the Jooz in this theory?Quote:
Originally Posted by devidee
The illusion of christian - muslim conflict is a benefit.
Disarming non-joos of guns and free thought is a benefit.
I mean, one day the German people just decided to vote in the Nazis.
(((one day LULZZZZZ)))
Global equity markets spooked by China’s response to Trump’s renewed trade war shots.
https://www.nbcnews.com/business/bus...s-60b-n1004881
Paging PFA’s resident market trading guru (Sanlmar): Is this a buying opportunity? Or will the knife fall even farther?
And everyone would flee to safety which is, aught and will be for the next x amount of years the economy which is backed by the biggest military, best (pound for pound) infrastructure, intellectual property, medical advancement and despite what ya heard stability on the 5th rock from the sun.Quote:
Originally Posted by MumblesBadlyTo get others to step in would require the Treasury to offer higher effective rates to buyers, especially if China did a one-two punch of also moving the money out of the US dollar.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daly
Again to my original point mumbles..... it’s not to say we don’t all lose in a trade war..... but it will be worse for them.
Our political system is more sensitive to changes in the strength of the economy. We have elections every few years. China’s current president was made president-for-life, and has consolidated power quite nicely over the psst few years. And because China is still a lower cost producer for so many products, it can more easily find other markets for its export goods if access to the US market is stifled by higher tariffs. As such, China has a better negotiating power than the US in a trade dispute.Quote:
Originally Posted by DalyAnd everyone would flee to safety which is, aught and will be for the next x amount of years the economy which is backed by the biggest military, best (pound for pound) infrastructure, intellectual property, medical advancement and despite what ya heard stability on the 5th rock from the sun.Quote:
Originally Posted by MumblesBadly
Again to my original point mumbles..... it’s not to say we don’t all lose in a trade war..... but it will be worse for them.
congratulations "muh Russia" donkeys, ppl will pay for making u look like complete stooges
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Originally Posted by thesidedish
exactly no one gives a shit about this beyond people personally invested in barr's career.
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Originally Posted by sonatineQuote:
Originally Posted by thesidedish
exactly no one gives a shit about this beyond people personally invested in barr's career.
"we're onto our next scam, do you think we ever stop complaining?!?!?!" TOUCHE
except china can't replace the US with other markets. if it could, it already would have. even exports to the EU from china are down. there's no demand. chinese workers are already living in poverty. it's not like they can cut prices without risking widespread unrest.Quote:
Originally Posted by MumblesBadlyOur political system is more sensitive to changes in the strength of the economy. We have elections every few years. China’s current president was made president-for-life, and has consolidated power quite nicely over the psst few years. And because China is still a lower cost producer for so many products, it can more easily find other markets for its export goods if access to the US market is stifled by higher tariffs. As such, China has a better negotiating power than the US in a trade dispute.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daly
your point re their political system is correct, however, which is what they are banking on.
don't underestimate people's fear though. blaming the chinese for all of our problems could catch on and become a bipartisan issue, fairly or not.
this is especially true if biden is the nominee. can't wait to hear joe explain why the chinese government invested $1.5 billion in hunter biden's biden's private equity firm two weeks after both joe and hunter flew air force 2 to china. i'm sure they were sightseeing.
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Originally Posted by blake
chinese APTs doing IP theft is extremely hot right now in the streets, so you know. the FBI has been ringing the bell about it for at least 7 years and it goes nowhere because its not as sexy as blaming immigrants for crime etc, but its costing us trillions of dollars and directly led to pretty much every chinese asset in the CIAs networks there to go dark at the same time.
basically china is beating our asses like a drum.
You still seem fairly confused what Chinese exports are. Bout 95% of those are split in to 2 camps. Branded American/multinational products and components for American/multinational companies. The taxes are transferred fully to the price of the end product and are always payed by the American consumers. You don't have any products to replace those. There is no domestic production that now becomes competitive. This has no effect to Chinese workers. China isn't losing the market nor did it ever have it in the first place. US is selling US products to US customers that made partly or in whole in China.Quote:
Originally Posted by blakeexcept china can't replace the US with other markets. if it could, it already would have. even exports to the EU from china are down. there's no demand. chinese workers are already living in poverty. it's not like they can cut prices without risking widespread unrest.Quote:
Originally Posted by MumblesBadly
What if China bans all US imports?
And if that happens...
What if Trump bans all Chinese imports?
Recession triggered.
It would be Donald Trump's greatest accomplishment.
https://www.openpaper.com/wp-content...is-heading.jpg
Couldn't the little china men in Vietnam do the same thing the little china men do in China?
I imagine their 8 year olds can sew just as well.
But even if we assume that is true, why would there would be no effect to chinese workers and companies if american consumers no longer buy those products, be those products made by american companies or for american companies or not? if the chinese workers are no longer working/selling, and thus not getting paid, why would that not hurt them?Quote:
Originally Posted by gimmickYou still seem fairly confused what Chinese exports are. Bout 95% of those are split in to 2 camps. Branded American/multinational products and components for American/multinational companies. The taxes are transferred fully to the price of the end product and are always payed by the American consumers. You don't have any products to replace those. There is no domestic production that now becomes competitive. This has no effect to Chinese workers. China isn't losing the market nor did it ever have it in the first place. US is selling US products to US customers that made partly or in whole in China.Quote:
Originally Posted by blake
I would be curious as to how many american companies actually own manufacturing plants in china, as opposed to contract with chinese companies to manufacture goods for american companies, though, if you have any details on that.
Actually, Vietnam does now have lower labor costs than China, but it doesn’t have the depth of engineering skills that China has developed over the past few decades because the “communists” in China wisened up to the value of entrepreneural capitalism at least a decade before the “communists” in Vietnam did so.Quote:
Originally Posted by devidee
They rarely own the companies that are doing the manufacturing. It wasn't cost effective. And part of the reason why they can't be replaced is the reason mumbles gave above. China has moved to "advanced sweatshops" in the last 20 years. Whatever could be moved to Vietnam for the most part already is there. This round of tariffs is also not even close to making it cost effective to produce in US instead of China. The competing products either don't truly exist or they are other branded products that are made in China.Quote:
Originally Posted by blakeBut even if we assume that is true, why would there would be no effect to chinese workers and companies if american consumers no longer buy those products, be those products made by american companies or for american companies or not? if the chinese workers are no longer working/selling, and thus not getting paid, why would that not hurt them?Quote:
Originally Posted by gimmick
I would be curious as to how many american companies actually own manufacturing plants in china, as opposed to contract with chinese companies to manufacture goods for american companies, though, if you have any details on that.
You are correct that Chinese workers would be effected if American consumers stopped buying, but these tariffs aren't enough to cause that. People aren't buying androids if Iphone costs a dollar more. They don't stop using aluminum cans because the soda costs a cent more. On the other hand in China they will stop buying Ford if the price goes up 10 percent, Tesla will move production to China and US farmers are very replaceable.
With "Chinese" products what is on US soil is marketing, head offices and retail outlets. For components assembly is also there sometimes. As a result the Chinese part of the retail price is almost never more than a fifth even if it's 100% Chinese made.
The basic theory of tariffs is that they enable domestic production to be more competitive. You don't have domestic production, because you moved it to China. Those who kept their production in the US are already out of business or they differentiated their product with quality/price/marketing and as a result are no longer competing products to Chinese.
but even if the US doesn't "have domestic production", which it does, this is because chinese products cost less so american companies couldn't compete.Quote:
Originally Posted by gimmick
if american products are cheaper than chinese products (due to tariffs), people would buy them.
if you are saying that americans just can't or won't manufacture things anymore for some reason, even if they would make a profit doing so, yeah we'll just disagree
that being said, i don't want to give the impression that i think tariffs are a realistic way of boosting US manufacturing cause i don't for the reasons i already stated (i.e., prices going up, stock market crash, politics, etc.) i'm terrible at predicting though so who knows. the NYTimes already has an article out today about how US tariffs on china may be the new normal.