Good lord, will someone please read the contract to Mayweather so we can get this thing going.
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Good lord, will someone please read the contract to Mayweather so we can get this thing going.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMM
I think Stiverne thought Wilder would gas. I was starting to think he would, too. Stiverne did some good work to Wilder's body. Wilder had no idea how to protect his body. His hands constantly went up to protect his head, but he never tucked in to cover the body.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerAndPoker
Wilder has come a looooooooooooooooooooong way from what he once was. His footwork is still pretty bad, but he answered a lot of questions people had about him, in this fight. He went all 12 pretty easily. He took several BIG shots from Stiverne. And he boxed going backwards. I mean boxed. Not just tried to land the right hand. He still gets wild at times when he's got his man hurt, but he did a good job of not punching himself out and leaving nothing for the later rounds.
Stiverne has got a fantastic chin on him.
I think Wilder beats Tyson Fury for sure. He's not ready for Klitschko.
What were the betting odds in this fight?
I think Wilder was like -150.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brittney Griner's ClitQuote:
Originally Posted by JMM
What were the betting odds in this fight?
There is no contract. HBO and Showtime have to settle their bullshit before there's going to be a contract.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gallo
Making a "he can't read" joke.... I'm known to swing and missQuote:
Originally Posted by JMMThere is no contract. HBO and Showtime have to settle their bullshit before there's going to be a contract.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gallo
Gotcha.Quote:
Originally Posted by El GalloMaking a "he can't read" joke.... I'm known to swing and missQuote:
Originally Posted by JMM
It is really sad that he has so much trouble reading.
Manny Pacquiao says Floyd Mayweather Jr. needs to agree to super-fight soon or he’ll move on
On Monday, Pacquiao told the LA Times during an office visit that if Mayweather doesn’t sign on the dotted line by the end of the month and agree to the fight, tentatively scheduled for May 2, the Filipino superstar is prepared to face someone else.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/mo...icle-1.2085089
Manny Pacquiao (r.) tells the LA Times he will move on from super-fight if Floyd Mayweather Jr. doesn't sign on the dotted line by the end of the month.
We'll know before the SuperBowl if there is going to be a fight.Quote:
There was a deadline set and some twitter jabs from Manny Pacquiao, and an actual response from Floyd Mayweather, but at the end of the day the talk from both sides about a possible fight of the century was just that - talk.
And now it appears the clock is ticking.
On Monday, Pacquiao issued Mayweather Jr. an ultimatum: Agree to fight me by the end of the month or I’m moving on.
"He's got to move ahead," Pacquiao promoter, Bob Arum told the Daily News in a phone interview on Tuesday. "We've got to have a fight in the spring. But you have to have a deadline. This can't drip on forever. We're working on a plan B."
Arum said that he and Pacquiao discussed the idea of setting a deadline last week when they met in Los Angeles. The bout with Mayweather Jr. has tentatively been scheduled for May 2 at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas and all the terms have been agreed to by both sides, Arum said.
All that's missing is for Mayweather to sign off on the contract, which so far he hasn't done, Arum said.
I can easily beat @FloydMayweather, I believe that.
— Manny Pacquiao (@MannyPacquiao) January 20, 2015
But, to the surprise of no one, Mayweather put the onus on the Pacquiao camp for holding up a fight every boxing fan has dreamed of for years.
"We have been going back and forth, communicating with their team," Mayweather said on Sirius XM radio. "We're going to make it happen though. We're trying, but it's been extremely difficult dealing with Top Rank. And I don't want to sit here and point the finger at Pacquiao and say ‘it's him.’ It's not Pacquiao, it's his promoter (Arum). A lot of times when Pacquiao says ‘I agreed’ — you don't have nothing to do with this, you're not a boss. On a chess board you're a pawn."
But Pacquiao wasn’t done, as he took to Twitter to lay down the gauntlet.
"I can easily beat @FloydMayweather, I believe that." he wrote.
Told of the Tweet, Arum agreed:
If you really care about the fans, you will fight. If you care about yourself... you won't fight. #MannySmile
— Manny Pacquiao (@MannyPacquiao) January 20, 2015
"He can, it's an easy fight (for Pacquiao)," Arum told the News. "That's why we want to do it. Floyd can't fight a fast lefty. But I've known from the beginning that he doesn't want to fight Pacquiao."
Pacquiao wasn't finished, delivering this plea on Twitter:
"If you really care about the fans, you will fight. If you care about yourself…you won't fight.#MannySmile."
Mayweather didn't immediately respond to Pacquiao's Twitter digs and a spokesperson for Mayweather didn't return an email for comment either.
But talks for what could be the most lucrative fight of all time have broken down in the past, leading Arum to have misgivings about the super fight ever take place.
The fate of a May 2 fight is now in the hands of Floyd Mayweather Jr., Pacquiao says.
"There are no more issues to work out," Arum said. "But you can't do Hamlet without Hamlet and that's what we're down to."
And if the fight doesn't happen this time around?
"It sends a message loud and clear that this guy does not want to fight Pacquiao and never did," Arum said. "I've been through this rodeo once before."
And if the talks crumble once again, Pacquiao told the LA Times he's prepared to move on, citing Amir Khan and "a lot of boxers" as possible options.
Arum didn't want to entertain such ideas.
"I'm not going to talk about another fight because that would show a lack of faith to people," Arum said. "But if the fight doesn't happen, the world will know whose fault it is."
Parting Shots: Wladimir Klitschko will defend his heavyweight championship against American Bryant Jennings on April 25 at Madison Square Garden on HBO. It's Klitschko's first fight in the U.S. since 2008, which also took place at the Garden.
Time for Mayweather to put up or shut the fuck up.
http://www.rantsports.com/mma/files/2013/11/manny1.jpg
It's funny, they keep saying "sign the contract"
There is no contract. Manny hasn't signed the contract.
Because there is no contract.
HBO and Showtime haven't figured out all of their details. That shit has to be in the contract. But it isn't.
Because there is no contract.
All we know right now, is that Manny has agreed to 60/40 in Floyd's favor (Mayweather agreed as well), he's agreed to Mayweather's drug testing demands, ring size, etc.
I love that Manny is trying to apply pressure to Mayweather for the good of the fight, but it's stupid to tell someone to sign a contract that you haven't even fucking signed.
Because, get this, there is no contract.
A truly sad day when a bum like Wilder is called the Heavyweight Champion of the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brittney Griner's ClitQuote:
Originally Posted by JMM
What were the betting odds in this fight?
Quit acting like a disrespectful fucking punk. Calling the guy a bum is stupid. He's not as polished as he could be, mainly because he's been protected. But he's no bum. The wind from his fucking jab would send you into dream land.Quote:
Originally Posted by hutmasterA truly sad day when a bum like Wilder is called the Heavyweight Champion of the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brittney Griner's Clit
In a historical context....he is a BUM! Possibly the worst era in the history of heavyweights. He wouldn't even be a top 10 fighter in many eras. Oh and I am probably older than you so respect your elders punk.Quote:
Originally Posted by JMMQuit acting like a disrespectful fucking punk. Calling the guy a bum is stupid. He's not as polished as he could be, mainly because he's been protected. But he's no bum. The wind from his fucking jab would send you into dream land.Quote:
Originally Posted by hutmaster
A lot of guys wouldn't be top 10 fighters in other eras. You fight who's in front of you. Tyson fought in one of the worst HW eras ever, but people are still on their knees for him.Quote:
Originally Posted by hutmasterIn a historical context....he is a BUM! Possibly the worst era in the history of heavyweights. He wouldn't even be a top 10 fighter in many eras. Oh and I am probably older than you so respect your elders punk.Quote:
Originally Posted by JMM
Obviously Wilder is no Tyson, but give the guy some time. He'll develop.
Klitschko sucks too.....only reason he would do well in other eras is because guys like Marciano were really cruiserweights.Quote:
Originally Posted by JMMA lot of guys wouldn't be top 10 fighters in other eras. You fight who's in front of you. Tyson fought in one of the worst HW eras ever, but people are still on their knees for him.Quote:
Originally Posted by hutmaster
Obviously Wilder is no Tyson, but give the guy some time. He'll develop.
If Klichko sucks then are you saying Lennox Lewis sucks, because they fight very similarly. I think they're both awesome. Granted, I'm not saying they're Ali or Joe Lewis, but they are great fighters.
Wilders jabs looked real strong the other night. For a big guy, getting poked with one of those would take most people down.
when he was really swinging....Jesus....his punches looked extremely solid.
He may not be polished like you guys are saying, but he looked pretty damn dangerous.
Could not disagree more.Quote:
Originally Posted by hutmasterKlitschko sucks too.....only reason he would do well in other eras is because guys like Marciano were really cruiserweights.Quote:
Originally Posted by JMM
Klitschko quite possibly could have beaten every heavyweight there ever was.
That's right, I said it.
Seriolusly, get me some of the weed you are smoking. Klitchkos only chance against the best heavyweights ever would simply be that size wise he is a giant compared to most. Heavys used to be 176 lbs and over, most like Marciano and Joe Lewis fought around 180-185 pounds. Today Heavyweights start at 201 pounds. Putting size difference aside and just comparing skill, I contend that Klitchko isnt even a top 10 all time heavyweight. I think Lennox Lewis sucked too, call me crazy. He was boring as fuck to watch and fought a bunch of nobodys. Ali had to contend with Liston, Frazier, Foreman, Kenny Norton, Ron Lyle, Jerry Quarry.... IMO Klitchko and Lewis were simply the best of their era but historically far down the list of the goat.Quote:
Originally Posted by vegas1369Could not disagree more.Quote:
Originally Posted by hutmaster
Klitschko quite possibly could have beaten every heavyweight there ever was.
That's right, I said it.
I consider myself to be somewhat of a boxing historian, and I contend that both Lennox Lewis and Klitschko (especially Klitschko) would have had a better than 50% chance of beating the greatest heavyweights of any era.Quote:
Originally Posted by hutmasterSeriolusly, get me some of the weed you are smoking. Klitchkos only chance against the best heavyweights ever would simply be that size wise he is a giant compared to most. Heavys used to be 176 lbs and over, most like Marciano and Joe Lewis fought around 180-185 pounds. Today Heavyweights start at 201 pounds. Putting size difference aside and just comparing skill, I contend that Klitchko isnt even a top 10 all time heavyweight. I think Lennox Lewis sucked too, call me crazy. He was boring as fuck to watch and fought a bunch of nobodys. Ali had to contend with Liston, Frazier, Foreman, Kenny Norton, Ron Lyle, Jerry Quarry.... IMO Klitchko and Lewis were simply the best of their era but historically far down the list of the goat.Quote:
Originally Posted by vegas1369
My father, who was a huge boxing fan and watched in person all the greats you just listed, including going to sparring sessions of Ali and Frazier, went to the Catskills to watch Lewis train back when he was champ. He said he never saw anyone with a jab like his, and just his overall sheer power was more impressive than anything he had ever seen. Both he and Klitschko, especially Klitschko, IMO would just be too big and skilled for every HW before them. Aside from Ali, Foreman literally destroyed everyone during that era, and he was the closest thing to these guys, but had a lot less boxing knowledge and skill in his prime. IMO both of these guys would have been too skilled for Foreman. Frazier, no shot, Ken Norton, nope, Ron Lyle and Punch Drunk Jerry Quarry...lol! The only one that would have stood a chance would have been Ali, but in the end again I think these two would have beaten him up past round 9, especially in a 15 round fight. Just too big and powerful with great defense, especially Klitschko.
+1 (except I'm not anywhere near the historian that you are)Quote:
Originally Posted by vegas1369I consider myself to be somewhat of a boxing historian, and I contend that both Lennox Lewis and Klitschko (especially Klitschko) would have had a better than 50% chance of beating the greatest heavyweights of any era.Quote:
Originally Posted by hutmaster
My father, who was a huge boxing fan and watched in person all the greats you just listed, including going to sparring sessions of Ali and Frazier, went to the Catskills to watch Lewis train back when he was champ. He said he never saw anyone with a jab like his, and just his overall sheer power was more impressive than anything he had ever seen. Both he and Klitschko, especially Klitschko, IMO would just be too big and skilled for every HW before them. Aside from Ali, Foreman literally destroyed everyone during that era, and he was the closest thing to these guys, but had a lot less boxing knowledge and skill in his prime. IMO both of these guys would have been too skilled for Foreman. Frazier, no shot, Ken Norton, nope, Ron Lyle and Punch Drunk Jerry Quarry...lol! The only one that would have stood a chance would have been Ali, but in the end again I think these two would have beaten him up past round 9, especially in a 15 round fight. Just too big and powerful with great defense, especially Klitschko.
It's not a popular opinion, but Wladimir Klitschko could hold his own against any heavyweight that's ever done it. His skill set it through the roof.
Also not a popular opinion, but you could make a case for Lennox Lewis being one of the best HW boxers of all time. Prime vs. Prime, it's hard to think of anyone I could say that I would 100% pick over Lewis.
As far as Ali goes, he was great, but he was small, and didn't have great defense. You're absolutely right, imo. If it goes into the later rounds, he gets bruised.
Speaking of heavyweights
Anthony Joshua - British fighter who you should remember from winning Olympic Gold in London... He's won all of his 10 fights since turning pro and looks the real deal... an absolute rolls royce of a fighter, and also a real gentleman.
Granted, he's fought mainly bums thus far. But i'll be amazed if he doesn't go on to be the most exciting heavyweight since Tyson.
One day this guy will be selling out the biggest boxing venues in Vegas and New York.
http://i2.walesonline.co.uk/incoming...97/1Joshua.jpg
We are somewhat comparing apples to oranges. My contention is that Klitchcko competes with past greats solely because he is a giant compared to them, not because his skillset is remotely equal. Can you say with a straight face that Klitchkos boxing skills are as good as Ali? Guys today really should be called Super Heavyweights.Quote:
Originally Posted by vegas1369I consider myself to be somewhat of a boxing historian, and I contend that both Lennox Lewis and Klitschko (especially Klitschko) would have had a better than 50% chance of beating the greatest heavyweights of any era.Quote:
Originally Posted by hutmaster
My father, who was a huge boxing fan and watched in person all the greats you just listed, including going to sparring sessions of Ali and Frazier, went to the Catskills to watch Lewis train back when he was champ. He said he never saw anyone with a jab like his, and just his overall sheer power was more impressive than anything he had ever seen. Both he and Klitschko, especially Klitschko, IMO would just be too big and skilled for every HW before them. Aside from Ali, Foreman literally destroyed everyone during that era, and he was the closest thing to these guys, but had a lot less boxing knowledge and skill in his prime. IMO both of these guys would have been too skilled for Foreman. Frazier, no shot, Ken Norton, nope, Ron Lyle and Punch Drunk Jerry Quarry...lol! The only one that would have stood a chance would have been Ali, but in the end again I think these two would have beaten him up past round 9, especially in a 15 round fight. Just too big and powerful with great defense, especially Klitschko.
If Joshua keeps his head on straight, and is brought along correctly, he's going to be really, really good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord of the Fraud
Quote:
Originally Posted by hutmasterWe are somewhat comparing apples to oranges. My contention is that Klitchcko competes with past greats solely because he is a giant compared to them, not because his skillset is remotely equal. Can you say with a straight face that Klitchkos boxing skills are as good as Ali? Guys today really should be called Super Heavyweights.Quote:
Originally Posted by vegas1369
That's like asking if you can say with a straight face that Manny Pacquiao's skills are on par with Floyd Mayweather. Klitschko fights an entirely different style than Ali did. You can't say that one guys skill set was "better" when they were so very different. I can tell you that on top of being an insane amount stronger, that Klitschko is also better defensively than Ali was.
Ali was great, but he wasn't some unbeatable force (not implying that's what you're saying at all). I think he beats a guy like Mike Tyson, but loses horribly to a guy like Wladimir Klitschko. Lennox Lewis would beat Ali 10 times out of 10.
You and Vegas both keep ignoring my main point.....The ONLY reason Klitchko or Lewis would have a chance at beating an ALI is because they outweigh him by 100 pounds, NOT because they are better fighters. I will concede some that I have a harder time giving Klitchko any credit for the heavyweight division has been a total joke for years. Even now its like Saturday morning wrestling with this contrived fake storyline of Shannon Briggs following Klitschko around to build up some bogus rivalry. Briggs was never that good and now he is 42 and over the hill.Quote:
Originally Posted by JMMQuote:
Originally Posted by hutmaster
That's like asking if you can say with a straight face that Manny Pacquiao's skills are on par with Floyd Mayweather. Klitschko fights an entirely different style than Ali did. You can't say that one guys skill set was "better" when they were so very different. I can tell you that on top of being an insane amount stronger, that Klitschko is also better defensively than Ali was.
Ali was great, but he wasn't some unbeatable force (not implying that's what you're saying at all). I think he beats a guy like Mike Tyson, but loses horribly to a guy like Wladimir Klitschko. Lennox Lewis would beat Ali 10 times out of 10.
I'm not ignoring the point. I told you, Klitschko is stronger and has better defense. He uses his reach to beat guys. It's not like he uses his size to lean on them and wear them down. Taller guys with reach get beat all the time. Lewis, too. They use their strengths. Ali was fast and had great footwork. He didn't have great defense or a lot of power and would get hit too much.Quote:
Originally Posted by hutmasterYou and Vegas both keep ignoring my main point.....The ONLY reason Klitchko or Lewis would have a chance at beating an ALI is because they outweigh him by 100 pounds, NOT because they are better fighters. I will concede some that I have a harder time giving Klitchko any credit for the heavyweight division has been a total joke for years. Even now its like Saturday morning wrestling with this contrived fake storyline of Shannon Briggs following Klitschko around to build up some bogus rivalry. Briggs was never that good and now he is 42 and over the hill.Quote:
Originally Posted by JMM
They have about 30 pounds on Ali. Weighing more doesn't just automatically equal winning a fight.
Tyson beat plenty of guys that had 30+ pounds on him. Size does not equal an automatic win obv.Quote:
Originally Posted by JMMI'm not ignoring the point. I told you, Klitschko is stronger and has better defense. He uses his reach to beat guys. It's not like he uses his size to lean on them and wear them down. Taller guys with reach get beat all the time. Lewis, too. They use their strengths. Ali was fast and had great footwork. He didn't have great defense or a lot of power and would get hit too much.Quote:
Originally Posted by hutmaster
They have about 30 pounds on Ali. Weighing more doesn't just automatically equal winning a fight.
BTW, Ali was not exactly small. He was 6'3" and usually fought in the 215lb range. He was only 4lbs lighter than Foreman when they fought.
IMO, what made Ali so great, aside from amazing footwork, was he had the best chin ever. That pretty much worked against him in the long run though. He simply got hit way too much over the span of his career, and if he had any weakness it was definitely his defense. That is why I feel Lewis and Klitschko would have beaten him. Their defense was far superior to his and would have worn him down over 15 rounds.
BTW, still kind of chuckling that you think Punch Drunk Jerry would have stood a chance vs these two.
I would throw in Earnie Shavers over the majority of your list. He could have knocked anyone out, and would have had the best shot at scoring an early round KO.
Holmes in his prime would have been very interesting too. Holmes does not get near enough credit. Probably the best jab in the history of the division.
Damn straight. He doesn't get near the respect he should. Jab was fucking lethal.Quote:
Originally Posted by vegas1369
So if you do a hypothetical tournament of 12 round fights of all the heavyweight greats in their prime is Lennox Lewis the favorite?
Personally I would rank Klitschko over Lewis.Quote:
Originally Posted by verminaard
If this was a betting A vs B scenario I would rank in this order...
Klitschko
Lewis
Ali
Holmes
Foreman
Tyson
Frazier
the rest...
Ok I will concede Quarry...he certainly wasn't an all time great but he was tough as hell. Shavers obviously better than Quarry.Quote:
Originally Posted by vegas1369Tyson beat plenty of guys that had 30+ pounds on him. Size does not equal an automatic win obv.Quote:
Originally Posted by JMM
BTW, Ali was not exactly small. He was 6'3" and usually fought in the 215lb range. He was only 4lbs lighter than Foreman when they fought.
IMO, what made Ali so great, aside from amazing footwork, was he had the best chin ever. That pretty much worked against him in the long run though. He simply got hit way too much over the span of his career, and if he had any weakness it was definitely his defense. That is why I feel Lewis and Klitschko would have beaten him. Their defense was far superior to his and would have worn him down over 15 rounds.
BTW, still kind of chuckling that you think Punch Drunk Jerry would have stood a chance vs these two.
I would throw in Earnie Shavers over the majority of your list. He could have knocked anyone out, and would have had the best shot at scoring an early round KO.
Retire from bartending and become a comedian. Klitscko has great D? Yeah because he fights guys 3x the bum he is.Quote:
Originally Posted by vegas1369Personally I would rank Klitschko over Lewis.Quote:
Originally Posted by verminaard
If this was a betting A vs B scenario I would rank in this order...
Klitschko
Lewis
Ali
Holmes
Foreman
Tyson
Frazier
the rest...
Quote:
Originally Posted by vegas1369Personally I would rank Klitschko over Lewis.Quote:
Originally Posted by verminaard
If this was a betting A vs B scenario I would rank in this order...
Frank Bruno
Klitschko
Henry Cooper
Lewis
Ali
Holmes
Foreman
Tyson
Frazier
the rest...
Fixed
I have already taken your advice and retired from bartending TYVM :)Quote:
Originally Posted by hutmasterRetire from bartending and become a comedian. Klitscko has great D? Yeah because he fights guys 3x the bum he is.Quote:
Originally Posted by vegas1369
Weiss is currently coaching me on how to do standup.
LOL......have you really quit bartending? What are you doing now if you don't mind sharing.Quote:
Originally Posted by vegas1369I have already taken your advice and retired from bartending TYVM :)Quote:
Originally Posted by hutmaster
Weiss is currently coaching me on how to do standup.
Honestly, I think that he is. I don't think I'd make anyone the favorite over him.Quote:
Originally Posted by verminaard
Vitali was beating him before they stopped that fight IMO. Shame that cut caused that stoppage, we would have most likely seen a Klitschko victory. I think Vlad is even better than Vitali, so I would rank him #1.Quote:
Originally Posted by JMMHonestly, I think that he is. I don't think I'd make anyone the favorite over him.Quote:
Originally Posted by verminaard
No more shines Billy...Quote:
Originally Posted by hutmasterLOL......have you really quit bartending? What are you doing now if you don't mind sharing.Quote:
Originally Posted by vegas1369
Maybe you didn't hear about it, you've been away a long time. They didn't go up there and tell you. I don't shine shoes anymore.
In all seriousness, I felt it was time for a change. Bartending was fun, great money, socially awesome, but time to move on. Right now I'm just taking it easy and planning my next move.
What Hut is saying is fucking stupid. However, I would say that Wlad is more effective than skilled. It's just that he's so incredibly effective. Being huge is one thing, but learning to use it like that is another. Has made for a bunch of ugly wins, though.
Anthony Joshua is definitely the possible future of the division.
Klitschko was cleaning Lewis' clock and would have won for certain were it not for that hideous cut. Lewis was also in decline, so Vitali v. Lennox in their primes is a very tough call. I would lean towards Vitali, who imo is the better of the Klitshkos, though Wlad has to be ranked higher historically because of the numbers.
Wilder is such a dick, though. After seeing him beat up that little guy in the gym, I'm looking forward to the bout where he gets put to sleep.