“In order to defend Trump, one has to attempt to suggest that anyone charged with holding the White House accountable is corrupt and evil,” - Matt Lewis
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“In order to defend Trump, one has to attempt to suggest that anyone charged with holding the White House accountable is corrupt and evil,” - Matt Lewis
Neocons aren't Nazis.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mintjewlips
Unless you believe the Nazis were joos.
https://www.cincinnati.com/story/new...fbi/505458002/
lol what the literal fuck, gop.
trump reportedly wanted to fire mueller in december but was talked out of it. it seems like trump’s advisers have convinced him that firing mueller will only make matters worse. the investigation won’t end and congress would probably take action and even impeachment. midterms would likely be a bloodbath.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tellafriend
i think it’s too late for trump to do anything about mueller. if he pardoned cohen or otherwise tried to stop his prosecution, my guess is the NY AG would step up to investigate (and probably charge) him with state crimes
all this being said, i think trump will ultimately fire mueller and it will go catastrophically bad for him.
and it wont be a political or legal maneuver, it will just be him being senile and having poor impulse control.Quote:
Originally Posted by blake
Trump Reportedly Having a ‘Meltdown,’ Said He Seriously Wants to Fire Top Brass at DOJ, FBIQuote:
Originally Posted by sonatineand it wont be a political or legal maneuver, it will just be him being senile and having poor impulse control.Quote:
Originally Posted by blake
https://www.mediaite.com/online/trum...ss-at-doj-fbi/
Republicans: Now more corrupt than Kwame Kilpatrick.Quote:
Originally Posted by sonatineand it wont be a political or legal maneuver, it will just be him being senile and having poor impulse control.Quote:
Originally Posted by blake
Ironically, the swamp is being drained. Except that Trump and his crime family are the swamp, and Muller is draining them.
The only problem is that this doesn't end with Trump and his family being swept out, a New Democratic regime coming in, and everyone living happily every after. The entire right wing of the United States (including media, politicians, tens of millions of people) are going to want retribution by demanding the FBI go after Democratic politicians with the same zeal. Right or wrong the narrative for a large % of the country is that the FBI is a partisan lapdog for the crooked Democrats. This isn't going to end well for anyone. IMO this is going to be much worse than just letting Trump do his 4 years and the country moving on.Quote:
Originally Posted by hongkonger
Fair or not, the FBI is going to have a serious credibility problem moving forward from this.
All the libs on this forum are ecstatic that this is going on, but this is a very short sighted approach IMO. It is very probably the repercussions that stem for this will seriously negatively impact their lives and the country as a whole worse than if this whole special prosecution never happened at all.
The FBI's credibility problem was created by Fox News lying. If people are willing to let that happen to them it's their own fucking problem. Reality and civilization will move forward without them.Quote:
Originally Posted by verminaardThe only problem is that this doesn't end with Trump and his family being swept out, a New Democratic regime coming in, and everyone living happily every after. The entire right wing of the United States (including media, politicians, tens of millions of people) are going to want retribution by demanding the FBI go after Democratic politicians with the same zeal. Right or wrong the narrative for a large % of the country is that the FBI is a partisan lapdog for the crooked Democrats. This isn't going to end well for anyone. IMO this is going to be much worse than just letting Trump do his 4 years and the country moving on.Quote:
Originally Posted by hongkonger
Fair or not, the FBI is going to have a serious credibility problem moving forward from this.
All the libs on this forum are ecstatic that this is going on, but this is a very short sighted approach IMO. It is very probably the repercussions that stem for this will seriously negatively impact their lives and the country as a whole worse than if this whole special prosecution never happened at all.
I forgot the details, but the podcast I listened to with the British historian emphasized how we fall into these traps because we don't think about the bigger picture.
We all assume that because Trump is such a bad president him winning the election is the worst thing that could have happened. This isn't necessarily true. And we all assume because he is such a bad president, and probably dirty, the FBI going after him is the best thing that could happen. This is equally not necessarily true. This could potentially add energy to a dangerous populist movement that might have otherwise been diffused if Trump just did his 4 years and moved on without all the attacks on him (justified or no).
I hope you realize who has most of the guns in the US, and who is the majority of people in our military. If you really think those people are going to let you move on into the future and leave them behind, then you are a fool. Civilization doesn't just move forward because the people pushing it are "right." Civilization has fallen plenty of times before to "deplorables" of their time.Quote:
Originally Posted by hongkongerThe FBI's credibility problem was created by Fox News lying. If people are willing to let that happen to them it's their own fucking problem. Reality and civilization will move forward without them.Quote:
Originally Posted by verminaard
What's the proper approach then?Quote:
Originally Posted by verminaardThe only problem is that this doesn't end with Trump and his family being swept out, a New Democratic regime coming in, and everyone living happily every after. The entire right wing of the United States (including media, politicians, tens of millions of people) are going to want retribution by demanding the FBI go after Democratic politicians with the same zeal. Right or wrong the narrative for a large % of the country is that the FBI is a partisan lapdog for the crooked Democrats. This isn't going to end well for anyone. IMO this is going to be much worse than just letting Trump do his 4 years and the country moving on.Quote:
Originally Posted by hongkonger
Fair or not, the FBI is going to have a serious credibility problem moving forward from this.
All the libs on this forum are ecstatic that this is going on, but this is a very short sighted approach IMO. It is very probably the repercussions that stem for this will seriously negatively impact their lives and the country as a whole worse than if this whole special prosecution never happened at all.
Should Trump and his family not get kicked out of the WH?
I have argued before that letting him do his 4 years and move on is very highly likely the highest +EV move for all.Quote:
Originally Posted by duped_samaritanWhat's the proper approach then?Quote:
Originally Posted by verminaard
Should Trump and his family not get kicked out of the WH?
Turning an unscrupulous populist leader, backed by an unscrupulous propaganda machine, into a martyr could end very badly for all of us.
this is like -1 level thinking tho; what alternative are you suggesting?Quote:
Originally Posted by verminaard
because we are about 10 seconds away on the democracy doomsday clock from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkYfmRwryQo
Quote:
Originally Posted by verminaardThe only problem is that this doesn't end with Trump and his family being swept out, a New Democratic regime coming in, and everyone living happily every after. The entire right wing of the United States (including media, politicians, tens of millions of people) are going to want retribution by demanding the FBI go after Democratic politicians with the same zeal. Right or wrong the narrative for a large % of the country is that the FBI is a partisan lapdog for the crooked Democrats. This isn't going to end well for anyone. IMO this is going to be much worse than just letting Trump do his 4 years and the country moving on.Quote:
Originally Posted by hongkonger
Fair or not, the FBI is going to have a serious credibility problem moving forward from this.
All the libs on this forum are ecstatic that this is going on, but this is a very short sighted approach IMO. It is very probably the repercussions that stem for this will seriously negatively impact their lives and the country as a whole worse than if this whole special prosecution never happened at all.
This is different how from the last 40 years? Obama, I believe, was the first sitting president not independently investigated since Nixon. Didn’t stop roughly 70% of registered Republicans supporting his impeachment in his second term. Tens of millions of people always want the President removed and investigated regardless of who is in office. It’s been a very divided country for a long time. The FBI doesn’t, and shouldn’t, give a single fuck about what a bunch of malcontents are up in arms about during any presidents tenure. If they have a case, they should make it. They’ve been around since before Trump was born and they’ll be around long after he is dead.
you may be right as to what a trump impeachment and/or prosecution would do but i’m leaning to wanting it anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by verminaard
i just can’t get past the fact that fox and friends is literally shaping our policy. i shouldn’t take it personally, but it’s hugely embarrassing to me as an american.
it’s also a really troubling thing that a literal nutcase can get elected to the US presidency. that’s a horrible indictment of either our democratic process or of americans generally. it would be reassuring to know if that we go down this road again, it would be dealt with swiftly.
Does it feel to you like we are heading to a place where 70% of registered Republicans are going to support impeaching Trump? I don't. Maybe I am just being paranoid, this has all happened before, and everything will be fine. However, I am reading the headlines on Fox News, and knowing the influence they have it doesn't appear like this is going to be the case.Quote:
Originally Posted by BCRQuote:
Originally Posted by verminaard
This is different how from the last 40 years? Obama, I believe, was the first sitting president not independently investigated since Nixon. Didn’t stop roughly 70% of registered Republicans supporting his impeachment in his second term. Tens of millions of people always want the President removed and investigated regardless of who is in office. It’s been a very divided country for a long time. The FBI doesn’t, and shouldn’t, give a single fuck about what a bunch of malcontents are up in arms about during any presidents tenure. If they have a case, they should make it. They’ve been around since before Trump was born and they’ll be around long after he is dead.
Lets keep something in perspective here. The majority of the people in this country, and the world in large, base some significant percentage of their belief structure on a bunch of bullshit that was written thousands of years ago, and actually believe it is divine. Things like right, wrong and truth matter a lot less than we would like.
I think if Trump and his friends/family are removed in the next 6 months it could be the best case scenario for republicans.
Sure there will be several months after impeachment of craziness, but, Pence would have enough time to remind everyone what it's like to not have scandal after scandal and give the party a chance to regroup and nominate a very capable candidate by 2022.
Trump still having any hope during the 2022 primaries would divide the republicans and give dems a ton of ammo.