There are some huge mutts on this list.Quote:
Originally Posted by big dick
I didn't even think Shaun Marcum was still pitching.
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There are some huge mutts on this list.Quote:
Originally Posted by big dick
I didn't even think Shaun Marcum was still pitching.
True on all counts. The payroll will be huge anyway, so back the money truck up to make sure you can compete against good teams in the playoffs. They should probably attempt to find a hitter that can finish with an OPS over .900, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan DruffI would like to see the Dodgers keep Greinke (provided they don't have to give him an insane contract) and sign Zimmerman.Quote:
Originally Posted by ToasterOven
If you're a big market team, you need to stop fucking around with Brett Anderson and Brandon McCarthy type signings and go for some of the big boys to establish a killer 1-2-3 rotation.
Dodgers essentially gave away Game 3 to the Mets because Anderson was awful (totally worn out) and Alex Wood was continuing to fight inconsistency.
http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb...-player-trade/Quote:
Four days after the World Series ended, the teams completed a six-player swap Thursday night. Seattle sent infielder-outfielder Brad Miller, first baseman Logan Morrison and pitcher Danny Farquhar to Tampa Bay for pitchers Nathan Karns and C.J. Riefenhauser, and minor league outfielder Boog Powell.
JFC, & I thought Boog had retired already.
What inevitably happens with the value guys is they overpay for some middling help and eat most of that.Quote:
Originally Posted by ToasterOvenTrue on all counts. The payroll will be huge anyway, so back the money truck up to make sure you can compete against good teams in the playoffs. They should probably attempt to find a hitter that can finish with an OPS over .900, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
:scalirQuote:
Originally Posted by SanlmarWhat inevitably happens with the value guys is they overpay for some middling help and eat most of that.Quote:
Originally Posted by ToasterOven
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/1...edictions.html
Interesting predictions for where free agents land.
So the Zobrists gave their newborn babygirl the middle name "Royal". That has to be a good sign right? #ForeverRoyal
100% true.Quote:
Originally Posted by SanlmarWhat inevitably happens with the value guys is they overpay for some middling help and eat most of that.Quote:
Originally Posted by ToasterOven
This is what has annoyed me with the Dodgers front office this year.
Rather than just biting the bullet and paying big bucks for a few really good superstars, they are signing lots of mediocre $10-$15 million per year type players who don't bring the team much value.
Like using my pitching example, I would much rather have one $25 million pitcher than Brett Anderson and Brandon McCarthy who combined to make around $25 million.
It is really looking like Friedman/Zaidi just have no idea how to run a big market team, while the previous Colletti regime was just all around clueless.
Just after David Price signed a 7 year deal for $217 million ($31 mil a year) with the Red Sox last week Zack Grienke has signed with the Arizona Diamondbacks of all teams. His deal is estimated to be a 6 year $206.5 million ($34.4 mil a year).
I didn't really think the Diamondbacks were going to fire that hard on anyone. Last year their entire team's salary was $56.27 million so paying one star pitcher over 61.1% of what you paid the team last year seems insane. This must also mean they are willing to fire as much as possible probably up to the point where the luxury tax was to kick in to build this team around Grienke because you don't go get him without doing that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerAndPoker
No official yet, he still has to pass a physical first and then its official. Jus sayin
This should make Druff happy:
Not sure who the prospects the Dodgers gave away are but when you can land a closer like Chapman it usually don't matter.Quote:
BREAKING: Los Angeles Dodgers agree to trade two prospects to the Cincinnati Reds for closer Aroldis Chapman. (via multiple reports)
Well... actually it does matter. Hopefully they didn't ship Julio Urias, who is one of the top pitching prospects in baseball. I doubt they were dumb enough to do that, though. They may have sent Jose De Leon, who is a good but not top-level pitching prospect.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerAndPoker
The fantasy is that the Dodgers will have two lights-out pitchers in the 8th and 9th, and perhaps also the 7th if Chris Hatcher continues the way he pitched in the final 2 months of the season (though that's a big if).
But the reality is that both Chapman and Jansen are in their final year before free agency, and the lack of ability to rack up a lot of saves (and being labeled a setup man) can hurt their market value. So one or both may be unhappy, and that may lead to diminished performance.
Druff: Perhaps you want to make a new thread titled something like "Developments for 2016 MLB Season", and move some of the later posts here to that thread. Because those posts would be easier to reference going forward in such a thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan DruffWell... actually it does matter. Hopefully they didn't ship Julio Urias, who is one of the top pitching prospects in baseball. I doubt they were dumb enough to do that, though. They may have sent Jose De Leon, who is a good but not top-level pitching prospect.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerAndPoker
The fantasy is that the Dodgers will have two lights-out pitchers in the 8th and 9th, and perhaps also the 7th if Chris Hatcher continues the way he pitched in the final 2 months of the season (though that's a big if).
But the reality is that both Chapman and Jansen are in their final year before free agency, and the lack of ability to rack up a lot of saves (and being labeled a setup man) can hurt their market value. So one or both may be unhappy, and that may lead to diminished performance.
lolz @
Sounds like the Reds were able to get a high B level prospect offered by the dodgers (probably Peraza) and are now using it as leverage to another team.
Wow. Fantastic. The Dodger would have stolen Chapman if this went through.... and Druff wasn't happy.Quote:
Originally Posted by gut
Wants to nap this year out. Maybe late call up / tryout for some "prospects".
Puig & Chapman together. This was probably the bigger motivation behind deal.
I am sure the new manager with his strong presence would have kept all the personalities in the bull pen in check.
ESPN made it sound like it was a done deal when I first read that. I just don't see the Dodgers giving up too much in regards to "quality" prospects they see in the organization for years to get Chapman but who knows? It has happened to a lot of teams in the past.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/1...c-dispute.html
Here's your answer to why this hasn't gone through. Chapman very likely to face discipline, putting him on ice until teams know what the punishment is.
http://www.si.com/mlb/2015/12/08/ben...ls-free-agencyQuote:
Originally Posted by jsearles22
cubs ws 2016
I gotta admit, I hate to see Castro go
When was the last time you saw two elite closers together, where it worked out and they pitched the 8th and 9th in harmony?Quote:
Originally Posted by SanlmarWow. Fantastic. The Dodger would have stolen Chapman if this went through.... and Druff wasn't happy.Quote:
Originally Posted by gut
Wants to nap this year out. Maybe late call up / tryout for some "prospects".
Puig & Chapman together. This was probably the bigger motivation behind deal.
I am sure the new manager with his strong presence would have kept all the personalities in the bull pen in check.
Anyone?
Anyone?
Bueller?
This doesn't happen because closers have huge egos, and all of them are obsessed with the save category, which is basically the main stat by which they are judged (and paid in free agency). The save category is misleading and flawed, but that's a different discussion for a different time.
Jansen and Chapman are BOTH headed for free agency in 2017, so both will be really upset if demoted to 8th inning work -- or even if they share it.
If a closer's mind is not in the game, he tends to collapse.
Drew Storen just suffered from this in 2015: http://www.federalbaseball.com/2015/...n-rough-season
I would be thrilled to see Chapman in Dodger blue if there was no Jansen. But since there is, I can only see problems ahead.
With that said, given his recent "legal troubles", this might not happen anyway.
Rivera & Wetteland
The "closers" hate setting up because saves are so tied to money. The save is a dumb stat and should be abolished.
There are other numbers besides saves. I am not sure there are going to be a lot of saves to be had in LA anyway unless the front office gets active.
But in the absence of any good story lines for Dodgers, I would market the shit out of the bullpen. Assuming Chapman was there. Make them cult heroes. Made for TV. Assuming you can get them on TV.
I dunno. That is stuff good coaches and front offices do. You well know the Nationals were a clusterfuck in that department. Surprised Storen & Papelbon or anything else went south?
The Cubs have so many great story lines. But let's assume they were in LA, I guarandamntee you Madden & Epstein would crush that potential problem.
I still can't get over Dave Roberts. Please explain.
Anyway, how the fuck did the nerd trust miss the Chapman issue? With all the Dodger issues it was interesting to see this closer as their first priority.
Even number year anyway.
Cubs just traded Starlin Castro to the Yankees for Adam Warren
Diamondbacks really swinging for the fences acquiring Shelby Miller at a steeeeep cost. Their top two prospects (including #1 pick from last year, the SS Swanson who looks like a stud) and Inciarte, a decent enough big league CF.
With the best hitter in baseball, and Greinke-Miller-Corbin at the top of the rotation, I'd think as of right now they should be slightly favored to win the west. Lot of action still to come though.
Bad example, as Rivera was a rookie who failed as a starter the first year of Wetteland, and then became the setup man the next year. Yankees then let Wetteland walk in free agency when they figured out Rivera was better anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Guy
The closest example I can think of off the top of my head is the Giants the last 4 years, rotating between Romo and Casilla as the closer, depending on who has the hot hand. That entire situation is just so unique though, SF has maintained practically the exact same bullpen for 5 years or so, they pay them well and the guys seem to not have giant egos.
Don't waste a lot of time with this silly rationalization that two bonafide closers can't coexist. There just aren't a lot of lights out closers - let alone on one team.Quote:
Originally Posted by gutBad example, as Rivera was a rookie who failed as a starter the first year of Wetteland, and then became the setup man the next year. Yankees then let Wetteland walk in free agency when they figured out Rivera was better anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Guy
The closest example I can think of off the top of my head is the Giants the last 4 years, rotating between Romo and Casilla as the closer, depending on who has the hot hand. That entire situation is just so unique though, SF has maintained practically the exact same bullpen for 5 years or so, they pay them well and the guys seem to not have giant egos.
Was hoping Red Sox would get Miller for Jackie Bradley. Worried Dodgers would deal Joc Pederson for him.
Greg Holland and Wade Davis coexisted pretty damn well the last two years. Kelvin Herrera and Ryan Madsen would be closers on a lot of teams as wellQuote:
Originally Posted by Dan DruffWhen was the last time you saw two elite closers together, where it worked out and they pitched the 8th and 9th in harmony?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanlmar
Anyone?
Anyone?
Bueller?
.
Cubs just signed another STL Cardinal....Jason Heyward
My Cubs tickets are looking pretty valuable now.Quote:
Originally Posted by DRK Star
Pretty pumped.
Heyward is bit strange for the Cubs. I read they plan to use him in center and project him to be league average there. A significant part of Heyward's value is tied to RF defense, where he is the best in the league.
OH YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
:yes
Anyone else do a double-take at the astros-phillies trade? The astros have been lauded now for their patient rebuild and stocking of young talent that finally broke through last season. The phillies had been the complete opposite, keeping aging stars way past their prime and letting the entire organization dissolve into a barren wasteland. This trade seems like they swapped identities. Giles has looked sharp in 2 years in the bigs, and obviously is controlled for awhile, but at then end of the day, a closer is a closer. An extremely volatile position that even with a steady hand there all year, still doesn't net much WAR. Especially when their bullpen wasn't exactly a tirefire last year anyway; as GreDrexel and Neshek were generally solid in the back end. Not Giles numbers but not horrible.
For the closer the astros give up Velasquez, a young MLB tested back of the rotation guy who misses bats and has the potential to be a 3 or better. Appel, their number 1 pick from a few years ago who has struggled a bit in the minors, but put up decent numbers last hear in the hitter friendly PCL at AAA and probably could hop in the rotation this year for Philly as well. Oh and Oberholtzer, a generally average/below average starter, but he's MLB level and a lefty, so he'll have a LOOGY role at minimum.
Absolute steal for the phillies.
Even a unique club like the Astros will play follow the leader. The Royals won so now everyone wants 3 shutdown relievers to pitch the 7,8,9.Quote:
Originally Posted by gut
There was no rotation with the Giants. Romo was the closer, then he got crappy, and Casilla moved into the closer role, where he remains. Romo has not returned to close since Casilla got the job. And yes, Romo is the setup man now, but that's different because he was never an elite closer like Chapman or Jansen. He was one of those guys who kinda got good out of nowhere, closed for a few years, but you knew that he could fall apart at any time, and did.Quote:
Originally Posted by gutBad example, as Rivera was a rookie who failed as a starter the first year of Wetteland, and then became the setup man the next year. Yankees then let Wetteland walk in free agency when they figured out Rivera was better anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Guy
The closest example I can think of off the top of my head is the Giants the last 4 years, rotating between Romo and Casilla as the closer, depending on who has the hot hand. That entire situation is just so unique though, SF has maintained practically the exact same bullpen for 5 years or so, they pay them well and the guys seem to not have giant egos.
Whereas Jansen and Chapman are big talents. Jansen does have health issues which might derail his career, but other than that he should be excellent for years to come.
Phillies have a number of promising young players now. I wouldn't be surprised if they break through soon, though they have a way to go.Quote:
Originally Posted by gut
I'm not sure if I'm as big of a believer in OF defense value as some others seem to be nowadays.Quote:
Originally Posted by ToasterOven
I understand how having a horrible OF defender can be problematic, and somewhat negate the offense he brings to the table. But I'm not sure if there is all that much value with a great defensive OF versus an average defensive OF. And when I say "all that much value", I'm not saying it's negligible, but I'm also skeptical that an average-good hitter who plays great defensive RF is equivalent to a great-hitting, average defensive RF.
There are just aren't that many really tough plays coming to RF where a great defender will make a huge difference. It's not like 2B, SS, and 3B where there are routine opportunities to shine and take away hits.
This whole obsession with outfield defense has risen with the obsession over the WAR stat, but in reality WAR isn't as statistically correct as some may believe. When a player hits .300, it is 100% statistically correct, because that means he hit 3 times out of 10, and there's no debate about it. Wins over replacement is subjective based upon the factors being used to calculate it, but in reality that's a tough thing to accurately compute, especially when it comes to defense.
Count me as a skeptic of the big contract offered to Heyward, who has never demonstrated he can be a consistently good hitter.
Maybe a good fit for the Cubs, since they already expect to hit for a lot of power, so they don't need a booming bat as much as other teams.
I agree that putting him in CF is baffling, though.
Dexter Fowler is the best free agent CF, and I think he wants to resign with the Cubs. Methinks the Cubs are working on a Soler or Schwarber trade for pitching, to then move Heyward to RF and resign Fowler.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan DruffI'm not sure if I'm as big of a believer in OF defense value as some others seem to be nowadays.Quote:
Originally Posted by ToasterOven
I understand how having a horrible OF defender can be problematic, and somewhat negate the offense he brings to the table. But I'm not sure if there is all that much value with a great defensive OF versus an average defensive OF. And when I say "all that much value", I'm not saying it's negligible, but I'm also skeptical that an average-good hitter who plays great defensive RF is equivalent to a great-hitting, average defensive RF.
There are just aren't that many really tough plays coming to RF where a great defender will make a huge difference. It's not like 2B, SS, and 3B where there are routine opportunities to shine and take away hits.
This whole obsession with outfield defense has risen with the obsession over the WAR stat, but in reality WAR isn't as statistically correct as some may believe. When a player hits .300, it is 100% statistically correct, because that means he hit 3 times out of 10, and there's no debate about it. Wins over replacement is subjective based upon the factors being used to calculate it, but in reality that's a tough thing to accurately compute, especially when it comes to defense.
Count me as a skeptic of the big contract offered to Heyward, who has never demonstrated he can be a consistently good hitter.
Maybe a good fit for the Cubs, since they already expect to hit for a lot of power, so they don't need a booming bat as much as other teams.
I agree that putting him in CF is baffling, though.
Regarding the OF defense ,you might be able to test out that theory next year watching the Cubs. Schwarber is an abortion in LF so far, compare and contrast to Heyward in RF.
also, OF shifts are becoming more and more popular. That could be a HUGE benefit to the Cubs. Lets assume my previous post is correct, and they roll with Schwarber in left, Fowler (or someone else not on the team now) at center, Heyward in right. Against any righty hitter who likes to pull the ball, you know for sure that Maddon will shift the CF towards left and basically let Heyward patrol right-center. A guy with the range to be able to do that is big. It can literally improve other players defensive ratings.
I think outfield defense has historically been underrated, but agree that it seems to be slightly overrated right now. Defensive WAR seems to be a bit over blown in relation to offense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan DruffI'm not sure if I'm as big of a believer in OF defense value as some others seem to be nowadays.Quote:
Originally Posted by ToasterOven
I understand how having a horrible OF defender can be problematic, and somewhat negate the offense he brings to the table. But I'm not sure if there is all that much value with a great defensive OF versus an average defensive OF. And when I say "all that much value", I'm not saying it's negligible, but I'm also skeptical that an average-good hitter who plays great defensive RF is equivalent to a great-hitting, average defensive RF.
There are just aren't that many really tough plays coming to RF where a great defender will make a huge difference. It's not like 2B, SS, and 3B where there are routine opportunities to shine and take away hits.
This whole obsession with outfield defense has risen with the obsession over the WAR stat, but in reality WAR isn't as statistically correct as some may believe. When a player hits .300, it is 100% statistically correct, because that means he hit 3 times out of 10, and there's no debate about it. Wins over replacement is subjective based upon the factors being used to calculate it, but in reality that's a tough thing to accurately compute, especially when it comes to defense.
Count me as a skeptic of the big contract offered to Heyward, who has never demonstrated he can be a consistently good hitter.
Maybe a good fit for the Cubs, since they already expect to hit for a lot of power, so they don't need a booming bat as much as other teams.
I agree that putting him in CF is baffling, though.
Kevin Keirmaier is a good example. BR has him at 5 WAR on defense. That's 5 wins above average. With 2.1 WAR on offense, it makes him the 3rd best position player in the AL last year. I don't really think so. The formula is telling me that he is a full 2 wins better than Miguel Cabrera.