Quote:
Originally Posted by ChoakMyDee
He is already onto his next scam. He will never show up here again.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChoakMyDee
He is already onto his next scam. He will never show up here again.
He's not.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChoakMyDee
.
It seems pretty clear at this point that the guy is a serial scam artist. Everything that he did was for the sole purpose of ripping you guys off. He will not pay you back unless court ordered or something I am sure of it. At this point legal punishment is the only effective means for any type of payback at all.
Jasep is the first player listed under "S": http://web.archive.org/web/201009221...JohnnySep.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by Forum Wars
Also, a big Welcome to CHOAKMYDEE
Thanks handicapme Paypal opened a dispute for me and they said "yes we know all about him"Quote:
Originally Posted by handicapme
This makes me very happy, glad I could help you recover your funds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollo TomasiThanks handicapme Paypal opened a dispute for me and they said "yes we know all about him"Quote:
Originally Posted by handicapme
Glad PayPal helped you recover your loss, I have used this feature once and was satisfied with the outcome as well.
Their dispute center has probably read this thread or 6tp's blog since he somehow has better SEOQuote:
Originally Posted by Rollo Tomasi
A bit of background on the 22Q poker room.
In August 2012, Jasep and VPR were planning the 22Q ironman podcast. He mentioned that he was looking to get Black Chip Poker to set up a poker tournament during the ironman marathon podcast, but this was proving difficult to organise with BCP.
As I was running the PFA poker room, I PM’d Jasep asking if he would like me to set up a similar poker room for the podcast. He snap replied to say yes. My first suggestion was that I would help him set up the room on his site, but it was clear that he did not have the technical know-how to even get started with this. In fact the real reason was more likely that he had no capability to run the software from his shitty $4.95 hosting.
So we agreed that I would set up the room. It was actually a resurrection of the first PFA poker room before the upgrade to Mavens 3.0 that included the Omaha games. I cleared down all the existing accounts and balances, and set up on the same server as the PFA room, running on a different port. Jasep provided the graphics (not sure if he did this himself or got someone else to do it) and the basic room was set up ready to go, but with no tables/tourneys just yet.
Anyway, Jasep now goes to town setting up the tournament series and all the cash games as well. From the server end, these can be done pretty quickly, but he only had access to the remote admin client, so he put in a lot of work to set all the tourneys up.
Once done, Jasep then starts advertising the room will be a real money site. I wasn’t keen on this, as I don’t really want to be offering real money games. I had expected it to be similar to PFA where people would maybe put up prizes for winners based on donations and run freerolls etc. 50 hours seemed a long time to fill, so having these freerolls would be a good part of keeping the show moving.
But as it was all for charity, I didn’t push the matter. I figured if it meant more donations for 22Q that wouldn’t be such a bad thing. I did say to Jasep that I did not want anything to do with handling the money side – which seems pretty ironic now. Shortly after, Jasep then starts accepting deposits for the site. These were to be paid either by paypal or Green Dot MoneyPak. Pretty much all the deposits were paid by paypal.
During the podcast the poker room seemed to be doing good business. At the end of the session I email Jasep a balance and rake report. Then pretty much forgot about it as it had served its purpose.
Audit.
Once the 22Q shitstorm broke, I went back and performed a full audit of the transfers and transactions. I could only see how the chips were allocated, I couldn’t see the funds flow s these went straight to Jasep.
With help from the community, I managed to piece together nearly all of the transactions by working out who had sent which amount.
The interesting thing with this is that Jasep operated the poker room pretty legit. He applied a 10,000 balance to his account, and then as deposits were received, these were done as transfer from his account to each user as chips on the poker room. This is a reasonable approach as the software does not allow negative balances.
I’ll provide a follow-up post with details of the amounts audited.
Here is a copy of my audit report. This has already been provided to Brandon and JoeU to assist with their investigations.
The conclusion of the report is that we can trace exact funds using information from users and the poker room audit to confirm an absolute minimum we know has been stolen by Jasep from 22Q from funds deposited through the poker room.
Quote:
Here is my analysis of the poker room audit.
The actual audit has been a little tricky because I only have half the facts. I can see all the transactions going through the poker room, but I cannot see the corresponding $ amounts as only Jasep will know these.
However from what I have seen, he seems to have acted "honestly" in that when he has received funds, he has transferred the appropriate chip amounts to the players.
There are two complications. Firstly, a number of stakes were provided during the show; it is not easy to determine between deposits and stakes. Secondly, a number of players transferred funds back to Jasep at the end of the event. This meant it is difficult to know if those are donations, stake repayments or cash outs.
I have contacted everyone affected to specifically ask their intentions for each transaction. In doing so, I can now confidently provide a complete trail of funds, i.e. we have the deposit (paypal transactions), any cashouts, and email statements from each player saying their intentions.
I can determine the following facts at the end of the event:
$1,135 remained in player accounts.
$831 was transferred back to Jasep's account
$228 was raked in cash games
$484 tournament entry fees were paid.
Of the $1,135, $619 was cashed out (and the players did receive the cash), $465 was asked to be donated, and $51 were held by unknown users (Agrestic and thick_flops)
Of the $831, $10 was cashed out (and the player did receive the cash), $763 was asked to be donated, $2 were transferred by an unknown user (gldstndrdftw), $49 was to continue playing and $7 was a returned stake.
A further $27 was sent by paypal to directly to the charity in addition to the poker room accounts.
The absolute minimum amount intended to go to the charity was $465 + $763 + $228 + $484 + $27 = $1,967.
It could be higher if the unknown users can be contacted.
This does not include any of the side-bets or the Victor Ramden donation.
Maybe with handicapme's chargeback success, we can start a chargeback campaign on Paypal.
But here's the question:
Can you charge back "gift" payments?
I always thought you couldn't charge those back, which is why they have no fees.
But is it possible they can be charged back, if we all (accurately) claim that Johnny scammed us?
When I go to reverse my transaction it definitely says I can't due to it being a gift.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
Good job with the audit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Belly Buster
Jasep claimed he owed the charity $2550. He would not explain exactly how he came to that number.
Victor Ramdin gave $500. Adding that to $1967 (plus maybe a few of the unknown factors) puts it in that neighborhood. Not sure about the side bets, obv.
I wonder why he claimed $6600 total, when it sounds like it was supposed to be $4600? Maybe because he wanted it to sound more successful, especially knowing he wasn't going to pay the charity what he owed anyway.
Of course, there was some money sent directly to Jasep for 22Q, such as the $125 Pooh sent me to forward to Jasep.
I bet he owes more than $2550, but maybe not as much as $4600. Weird.
Im not positive but i think you can do a chargeback on a "gift".
But you only have 45 days to charge back any transaction.
Maybe someone can try an experiment of calling them and saying this was a scam where a guy ran a fake charity event and asked people to send him money on Paypal as a "gift" to donate.Quote:
Originally Posted by simpdogWhen I go to reverse my transaction it definitely says I can't due to it being a gift.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
They have it on file that he's a big scammer, so they'll believe it. I wonder if there is a protocol for dealing with things like that.
A couple of other comments:
I believe it is likely that Jasep did not set out to use the 22Q podcast to steal charity funds. Why? Because the podcast discussions were well underway before I contacted him to set up the poker room. I can't see how he could have rolled BCP in a similar way. I believe this was an opportunistic theft once the funds starting rolling into his paypal account. Also if he managed to Heeb it up at the Borgata, there's a chance that the charity funds would have been paid.
All players requesting cashouts received money BACK from Jasep. I know Druff questioned this, but I contacted everyone with balances; some requested cashouts and Jasep paid all these without exception.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan DruffMaybe someone can try an experiment of calling them and saying this was a scam where a guy ran a fake charity event and asked people to send him money on Paypal as a "gift" to donate.Quote:
Originally Posted by simpdog
They have it on file that he's a big scammer, so they'll believe it. I wonder if there is a protocol for dealing with things like that.
Handicapme, maybe you can let us know how you talked to a manager and perhaps even look into this for us? Or I'm fine with phoning in tomorrow.
I bet their is some way to get around that gift and charge back but it might require you to have never done a charge back before with paypal like a one time exception thing.
Same hereQuote:
Originally Posted by simpdogWhen I go to reverse my transaction it definitely says I can't due to it being a gift.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
I can confirm that gifts can be brought into claim if you prove that it was a scam. The sum of 300 was actually a gift. Jasep did me a huge favor by saying that I was owed x amount. Also I sent them his emails promising to pay back. I'm not sure about the 45 day limit they set, but if it was a gift and sent within 45 days, you can def open a claim. I helped rollo do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan DruffMaybe someone can try an experiment of calling them and saying this was a scam where a guy ran a fake charity event and asked people to send him money on Paypal as a "gift" to donate.Quote:
Originally Posted by simpdog
They have it on file that he's a big scammer, so they'll believe it. I wonder if there is a protocol for dealing with things like that.
Sorry about the format my phone has the super aids when It comes to posting on this site. Fucking S3