shoutout to the NBAPA for managing that cap spike a few years back...way to fucking ruin the product...
Printable View
shoutout to the NBAPA for managing that cap spike a few years back...way to fucking ruin the product...
The only idea I’ve ever heard that could possibly fix this is the concept that a team can sign a star they drafted for any amount, and have it only count against the cap like a standard max deal.
And to take it a step further, I can imagine a scenario like Lebron where that cost could literally be put on the ballot, like a stadium cost, as insane as that sounds.
I’ve seen estimates that Lebron was worth half a billion to local businesses alone. So imagine he’s up for free agency and the Cavs can offer him 4 years $450 million. He’s legit worth it, but even a billionaire owner can’t pay it. It’s getting close to 4 years $200 million anyway, so they put a dime tax on shit up for vote to cover the other $250 million and it’s passing all day. I’ve heard the Greek Freak is having a smaller, yet significant economic impact on Milwaukee. Do that, and it flips the script back to good drafting and scouting and no more superteams.
Guys aren’t leaving $300 million on the table to play with their buddies. Cities can’t get mad if someone leaves. What would OKC have paid Durant to stay? They have $155 million out right now, probably the same just in tax penalty, in contracts that will bring them 4th place. Put it on the ballot and you give people the option to keep their stars.
It's real simple to fix this.
Every four years a team can protect two starters and two bench players then we have a redraft of the entire league going in order of worst teams to the best.
You could have 6 rounds then the teams can sign whoever is left to fill their few remaining roster spots.
If any team tries to tank games or make terrible trades at the end for better positioning their would be repercussions.
The days of letting players group together to make a super team need to be put to an end for overall league balance of competitiveness.
Until something like this to some extent happens we will continue on with a league of extreme disparity from top to bottom.
in theory both of those ideas are interesting, I doubt the NBAPA is gonna vote to stop this shit...
I think this whole GSW thing is just a totally freak occurrence caused by the greed of the NBAPA having to get the TV money when it was hot off the presses...
under normal circumstances I don't think it's even possible to sign more than two superstars to a team, is it? I mean I guess Houston could have done it, but wouldn't that have gutted their whole team to get harden/paul/LeBron on it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by GambleBotsChafedPenis
They’d love my idea. Not so much Beer and Pokers. My idea would run into issues as far as the owners and cities, but it’s a strange league. Only like 10 guys matter. When you have 2 or 3 congregate in one place, it then draws in the guys chasing. My idea is both free market and increased taxes, but increased taxes that pays for itself and then some.
It’s a vicious cycle right now. Boston formed their Big 3, and then Lebron ran up against them, formed his Big 3 and started the ring chaser model with Allen and company. Then GS sees that and ups the ante to a never before seen level. But if you wind it all back, Minny being able to offer Garnett way more than anyone, then Cleveland with Bron, then OKC with Durant and none of this ever happens. It becomes about drafting and development and cities keep their beloved stars.
think the taxes thing would be tough to swallow...your economic impact theory makes obvious sense, but try to get people to understand all of that...they'll just see increased taxes for sports and freak the fuck out...Quote:
Originally Posted by BCRQuote:
Originally Posted by GambleBotsChafedPenis
They’d love my idea. Not so much Beer and Pokers. My idea would run into issues as far as the owners and cities, but it’s a strange league. Only like 10 guys matter. When you have 2 or 3 congregate in one place, it then draws in the guys chasing. My idea is both free market and increased taxes, but increased taxes that pays for itself and then some.
It’s a vicious cycle right now. Boston formed their Big 3, and then Lebron ran up against them, formed his Big 3 and started the ring chaser model with Allen and company. Then GS sees that and ups the ante to a never before seen level. But if you wind it all back, Minny being able to offer Garnett way more than anyone, then Cleveland with Bron, then OKC with Durant and none of this ever happens. It becomes about drafting and development and cities keep their beloved stars.
Explain to a novice like me why we don't just have a hard salary cap? All the exceptions and taxes and etc confuse the shit out of me. Just have a fucking salary cap
Maybe, maybe not. Would depend on the player. It obviously wouldn’t be that extreme in every case. If they vote it down, they vote it down. Sports are unique. Like anyone who has been to Cleveland when Lebron is there understand the tangible difference. The streets are jammed with people. It’s huge. I like the idea without the tax part, but even the rich owners would struggle to fade it.
I mean, we had no vote to bail out banks and auto companies and all that. They are still handing out $100 million golden parachutes to execs that fail. Almost every city gives a tax break to a company to bring jobs and shit to a town, and their CEOs make ungodly money, and there is no real way to know if they’re any better than a guy running a successful local business somewhere. Even when they fail they leave with huge severance deals. At least you know if a player is good, you can somewhat nail down his economic impact on a city, and you leave it up to the town. That shit 100% passes in Cleveland. It’s majority black and this is the NBA. It wouldn’t always pass, but then you can’t cry. And it’s a tax that ends when his career ends, as opposed to a normal tax that just goes on forever. Plus it’s a tax that every hotel, restaurant, etc. is advocating for.
Maybe you do it in some other manner with tax breaks to the owners somehow. I don’t know. It’s insane, but a dude is worth what’s he’s worth.
cause if you draft really well, you'd have to break up the team, which kind of sucks for the fansQuote:
Originally Posted by jsearles22
i like BCR's proposal about being able to overpay your own drafted players, but not others
also lol gareQuote:
Originally Posted by lol wow
I could be totally off on this so somebody who understands this shit better than me can chime in if im wrong...I think the soft cap is designed to stop shit like what is happening from happening (superstars bolting teams in FA)...teams are allowed to go over the cap to sign guys who they have Bird rights to (I think that's what that means) so if you draft a guy like Anthony davis you can offer him more money and years as the team that drafted him than any other team and can go over the salary cap to do so (if the playing field was equal what shot would you have given NO of signing him to that second contract??)...if you had a hard cap it takes that advantage away from the teams that draft well and who are in smaller markets who draft guys who are superstars...Quote:
Originally Posted by jsearles22
this is why the kahwi thing is so interesting...he's gonna leave I believe around $50-60M on the table if he goes the FA route instead of signing the like 5/210 contract with SA...
Quote:
Originally Posted by blakecause if you draft really well, you'd have to break up the team, which kind of sucks for the fansQuote:
Originally Posted by jsearles22
i like BCR's proposal about being able to overpay your own drafted players, but not others
The Sixers would be a prime example. They suffered, tanked, drafted guys, I’m sure their success this year had a huge economic impact on the city, yet their guys could literally be heading out the door disheartened after their initial 7 years that you can usually retain a guy having never won a thing because they have this ungodly juggernaut sitting out there in GS.
nah I hear ya, would mean a helluva lot more than having somebody's Bird rights...Quote:
Originally Posted by BCRQuote:
Originally Posted by blake
The Sixers would be a prime example. They suffered, tanked, drafted guys, I’m sure their success this year had a huge economic impact on the city, yet their guys could literally be heading out the door disheartened after their initial 7 years that you can usually retain a guy having never won a thing because they have this ungodly juggernaut sitting out there in GS.
maybe they can shift some of that dogshit 1.5c/oz "sweet drink tax" here towards paying to re-up simmons...
The Lakers renounced Julius Randle. What's that mean? Just gave him away for nothing??
technically, they could have still re-signed him even after renouncing his rights, but by doing so, they could no longer go over the cap to keep him and they can no longer match any offer made to him.Quote:
Originally Posted by jsearles22
he signed a two-year deal with the pelicans btw
Yeah, he became an unrestricted free agent at that point and signed with NOP tonight. When a guy is a free agent, he still counts against your cap hold. If you renounce, they come off, but you lose his bird rights etc. and if you want to sign him back for some reason, it’s like a typical FA signing and you can’t exceed cap like you can for one of your own. I guess they assumed they couldn’t get anything for him, or anything worth waiting around with a cap hold forQuote:
Originally Posted by jsearles22
Hard caps also usually come with hefty, hard floors. Cheap owners don't like hard floors.
just looked up the nfl cap + floor. The floor looks to be 89% of the cap. 2017 was $167m, floor was $149. Violations, over or under, bring fines, draft pick losses, etc.
7.1.18
7.2.18
1. Of course Durant signs under-market and then the Warriors get Boogie. League is so dumb....I doubt I will watch much of anything next year....unless hopefully Curry's ankle disintegrates or something.
2. Kind of want to watch this Laker team tho. Should be entertaining.....LeBron clearly just on the retirement cruise now.
3. Kawhi winds up on the sixers now then right? I kinda hope SA plays hardball and he threatens to holdout.
Have you ever watched Cousin's play? He plays nothing like the Warriors system when they are really trying to win. If the Warriors are actually trying to win they should probably play him like they did Pachulia. Start the first and third Q and garbage time and that is it. He actually probably isn't worth much more than the $5M he is making to that team.Quote:
Originally Posted by gut
As far as Lebron and this years Laker team, there are A LOT of really good free agents coming available next year, including Klay and I think Durant. All the guys the Lakers are signing are 1 year deals. Looks like they are trying to get competitive this year, and next year will be the year they make a push. If the Warriors lose a star or two next summer and Lakers pick up a star or two (both very reasonable) the shift of power in the west could turn fast.
As far as Kawhi, a lot of that depends on how committed the 76ers think he is to signing a big deal with the Lakers in the next year (something the Lakers will have the flexibility to do next summer with their current roster moves). How much are the 76ers willing to give up on what might be a 1 year rental?
as a sixer fan, i don’t want them to trade anything for kawhi unless he commits to staying longterm. if he is determined to go to LA, why bother on a rental.
i know it worked out for OKC with george, but with kawhi coming off an injury and apparently being crazy emotional, i’ll pass. he’ll end up being “injured” the whole year
exum 3/33 to stay in Utah...
jesus fucking Christ...I mean, wow...I get potential and all that shit, but wow...guess it's 3 years so it's not that terrible, but man not really doing much on your rookie deal and getting 10+/year on your second contract is amazing...
Quote:
Originally Posted by GambleBotsChafedPenis
Yeah, he’s pretty much garbage. Hurt all the time. Horrible handle. Can’t shoot. Gets blown by on defense. Laying out $29 million annually for Favors/Exum seems suspect. They clearly think the upside still there, and it’s Utah, so I get overpay, but strange moves for a well run team. I hesitate to call them dumb moves given they have smart FO and coach, so I guess we’ll see, but my gut reaction to both deals were that I thought those guys were worth like 50% of what they got. They have 3 very good building blocks. If I was going to blow $29 million, I’d have been looking at Euros where Utah might not be such a deal breaker.
BCR is the new haralabob…Quote:
Originally Posted by BCRQuote:
Originally Posted by GambleBotsChafedPenis
Yeah, he’s pretty much garbage. Hurt all the time. Horrible handle. Can’t shoot. Gets blown by on defense. Laying out $29 million annually for Favors/Exum seems suspect. They clearly think the upside still there, and it’s Utah, so I get overpay, but strange moves for a well run team. I hesitate to call them dumb moves given they have smart FO and coach, so I guess we’ll see, but my gut reaction to both deals were that I thought those guys were worth like 50% of what they got. They have 3 very good building blocks. If I was going to blow $29 million, I’d have been looking at Euros where Utah might not be such a deal breaker.
I think theyre hoping to catch a Stephen curry lightning in a bottle thing with an oft injured guy, hoping that he'll majorly outperform...but if you cant shoot by now, I find it hard to believe you're just gonna find it...I just cant imagine there were teams out there clamoring to offer him more than like 3/15 so this just seems like a beyond overpay...
everything I read about favors is that he struggles next to a guy like gobert so yeah 18/year seems tough for a guy that cant reach his potential with your best interior player...
interesting idea with the euro angle...put a couple of those guys that can shoot along side of Mitchell, engles and gobert and see what they could do...would be an interesting little team there...
booker supposedly getting a max from PHX...5/150+
was a big fan of booker coming outta UK...biggish guy who can shoot the shit outta the ball...30+/year is probably a bit strong because from the little I can gather he is a big minus on D so for that kinda money I would hope that you could at least be a marginally OK defender and could occasionally run a team...think they're pushing towards that last part...
even though it's a bit strong I mean it's not like they could let him walk...
I watched a lot of PHX on league pass for gambling reasons, and Booker was prominently involved in a lot of games where PHX lost by 30+ points and his personal +/- was comparable to the margin of defeat. I know he doesn't have world beaters around him, but you would expect that by year 3 if you really had a star player in the making you wouldn't be see the team he was leading repeatedly getting blown off the floor so regularly, even with a subpar surrounding cast.Quote:
Originally Posted by GambleBotsChafedPenis
Is there a single player who later went on to become a superstar who was prominently featured on the worst team in the league in his 3rd year? I can't think of any.
confirms my suspicions that he's a terrible minus on D...but again I don't know if they can let him walk...Quote:
Originally Posted by verminaardI watched a lot of PHX on league pass for gambling reasons, and Booker was prominently involved in a lot of games where PHX lost by 30+ points and his personal +/- was comparable to the margin of defeat. I know he doesn't have world beaters around him, but you would expect that by year 3 if you really had a star player in the making you wouldn't be see the team he was leading repeatedly getting blown off the floor so regularly, even with a subpar surrounding cast.Quote:
Originally Posted by GambleBotsChafedPenis
Is there a single player who later went on to become a superstar who was prominently featured on the worst team in the league in his 3rd year? I can't think of any.
boogie would probably fit that bill...kings were always shit during his tenure...he's an obvious mental case which probably didn't help...
If you don't like the NBA FA shit I just don't know what to say...this shit from a team that wouldn't tack on like 2-3M/year onto a contract offer to james harden because they were worried about going into the fucking tax...now they are basically paying Carmelo Anthony $53M to play for them (tax included) with zero hope of winning anything...and by that extension they are paying russa russ $80+M to play for them...
Free-agent guard Raymond Felton has agreed to a one-year, $2.4 million deal to return to the Oklahoma City Thunder, league sources told ESPN.
Felton's signing will push the Thunder's payroll and luxury tax hurtling past an historic NBA threshold: $300 million. The Thunder are responsible to pay $150 million in tax on the 2018-19 season's roster, if the roster stays intact through the end of the season.
Having Westbrook, Durant, and Harden at the same time and letting 2/3 of that get away without winning a single conference final is really a huge fail.
Anyway, the Kawhi saga gets even weirder.
Check this out:
This is just insane. By far the weirdest injury situation I've ever seen in professional sports.
Either Kawhi is being grossly mishandled, his injuries are far worse than he's letting on, or both.
He's really become a mess. I don't want the Lakers touching him at this point.
They won one conference final and lost in the finals to the heat in 2011-12 FWIW.
With those weird 1 year contracts of all the replacement level players looks like the Lakers are going to punt this year and then try to make a run in next summer's free agent class (when Lebron is 34-35 yr old).
I wouldn't say they are punting this year. Assuming they make no further trades, taking a 35 win team and adding LeBron and removing Brook Lopez and broken-IT automatically makes them a 50 win team at their floor and probably a 3-4 seed if everyone stays relatively healthy.Quote:
Originally Posted by verminaard
I'm excited to watch a lineup of Ball-KCP-LBJ-Ingram-Kuzma on the floor, and you still have Hart, Stephenson, Rondo, Javale as rotation guys...its a sneaky good team. People are acting like theyre doomed because they didnt get a 2nd "star". They probably already have one in Ingram.
Chris Bosh, Kevin LoveQuote:
Originally Posted by verminaardI watched a lot of PHX on league pass for gambling reasons, and Booker was prominently involved in a lot of games where PHX lost by 30+ points and his personal +/- was comparable to the margin of defeat. I know he doesn't have world beaters around him, but you would expect that by year 3 if you really had a star player in the making you wouldn't be see the team he was leading repeatedly getting blown off the floor so regularly, even with a subpar surrounding cast.Quote:
Originally Posted by GambleBotsChafedPenis
Is there a single player who later went on to become a superstar who was prominently featured on the worst team in the league in his 3rd year? I can't think of any.
I am not sure they meet the definition of superstar. But they reached a level of competency that if Booker were to meet would justify the deal he got. So fair enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by varysChris Bosh, Kevin LoveQuote:
Originally Posted by verminaard
Quote:
Originally Posted by verminaardI am not sure they meet the definition of superstar. But they reached a level of competency that if Booker were to meet would justify the deal he got. So fair enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by varys
Michael Jordan?
I checked and the Bulls won 40 games and were the 8th seed in the East in Jordan's 3rd year, so obviously not worst team in the leauge. I didn't actually fact check whether Toronto and Minnesota were the worst teams in the league during Love and Bosh's 3rd year. They probably weren't, so maybe my point does stand.Quote:
Originally Posted by jsearles22Quote:
Originally Posted by verminaard
Michael Jordan?
They were bad enough
I think Ingram is really good and will thrive under LeBron, provided they keep him. Same with Lonzo.Quote:
Originally Posted by gutI wouldn't say they are punting this year. Assuming they make no further trades, taking a 35 win team and adding LeBron and removing Brook Lopez and broken-IT automatically makes them a 50 win team at their floor and probably a 3-4 seed if everyone stays relatively healthy.Quote:
Originally Posted by verminaard
I'm excited to watch a lineup of Ball-KCP-LBJ-Ingram-Kuzma on the floor, and you still have Hart, Stephenson, Rondo, Javale as rotation guys...its a sneaky good team. People are acting like theyre doomed because they didnt get a 2nd "star". They probably already have one in Ingram.
I can't imagine LeBron carrying the same workload as he did last year; if I recall he played all 82 games and was among the league leaders in minutes. That shit can't be done in the west.
Also not sure why more players don't sign with Klutch. KCP isn't bad but LOL at his last two contracts. Tristan Thompson as well.
There is almost zero chance that Anthony and his full salary are still on the books for OKC this season, either by a trade or just by stretching and waiving him. That will cut down their tax payment by over $50 million. I don't even know if a trade is possible at this point with most of the bad teams that also have cap space already using up a bunch of it. Plus, why would you want to get draft picks from OKC when they're most likely going to be a playoff team for the foreseeable future? But I guess there are reasons why teams like the Kings and Bulls are what they are...Quote:
Originally Posted by GambleBotsChafedPenis
And that deal for Felton is fine. You're getting a competent backup point guard for cheap.