I have a medical condition which will be tough to treat, and it means the end of radio (for now)

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Originally Posted by igotnotoe

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Not that simple.

People like to say, "Live a healthy lifestyle, and you'll be healthy", but that often isn't true.

FYI, I've lost 20 pounds and eaten much better since this started, but I haven't gotten better yet. In some ways I've gotten worse.

I have two separate things which are not easily cured, and neither is understood particularly well.

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He is right. If it is a panic disorder brain thing (i have no idea) exercise is going to do little to help right now. In fact, if we are dealing with panic disorder all exercise is going to do is increase heart rate and potentially create new panic attacks. The problem needs to be fixed and then you can add in all these other things. I used to get rolling panic attacks. It was like a bad drug trip. You would feel as if you were dying and then it would sort of go away only to come back. If this is what he is going through you basically cant do anything.

NO supplement is going to help cure it but supplements can help to not make it worse. For example, potassium , magnesium and a B and K multivitamin. Especially since it doesn't sound as if you are eating much.

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Uh... No, it won’t. In fact, it typically has the opposite effect over the long run.

Exercise helps curb panic disorder symptoms

http://sciencenordic.com/exercise-he...order-symptoms

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Hovland has also studied how so-called heart-rate variability is associated with the way the brain treats inputs among patients with panic disorder.

“It’s well known that patients with panic disorder have less heart-rate variability than normal.”

“Pulse rates will normally vary from one situation to another, for instance when we are at rest compared to when we are excited. But for people with panic disorder, the heart rate changes less and is generally higher than normal per minute,” explains Hovland.

This appears to raise the risk of developing cardiovascular disease. If patients develop heart problems, it also has a negative effect.

Hovland says that physical activity increases heart-rate variability and has a positive effect on the brain, such as the way the brain regulates our attention.

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I’m going to put this out here in case it is anxiety. When a CBT told me this I looked at her like she was a hippie holistic moron, but tried it, and it worked more often than it failed and I was far sicker than you are even if you’re sicker than you realize. When you’re lying down and feel the anxiety coming on. Try to mentallly place the anxiety at the top of your head and let it flow though the end of your toes and out your body. It sounds idiotic. I looked at her like she was a moron. Live a wave. Don’t fight it. It was strangely effective.

Druff Hello

Inspired weight loss

https://youtu.be/lQ6-nCLeDsI

I've suffered from GERD my entire life, although this silent reflux sounds a hell of a lot worse. Regardless, my problem was caused by a hiatal hernia. It was never bad enough to require surgery although the heart burn issues made life miserable. I would take an antacid such as tums and it would help on a very limited basis. I think I took Nexium a couple times. The one that really helped for me was Prilosec OTC. I take one when I wake up and have zero heart burn throughout the day. Once in a while the GERD will flare up but that is just a minor nuisance mostly caused by, you guessed it, anxiety. The heart burn was what made life miserable for me and OTC was a god send. Only drawback was it's expensive relatively speaking.

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Originally Posted by igotnotoe

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Originally Posted by Pooh

I find it both funny and sad how cocky Druff still is about his excellent health. The cholesterol was a guess and I'm also guessing you're on drugs to keep it low. How's the sodium levels?

100% is a between the ears issue. If it wasn't the Xanax would have had zero effect. The guy either has anxiety or is depressed or both.

But self medicating and diagnosing is def the prudent thing when one has a dibilitating illness.

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The problem with benzos are that they are useless for chronic anxiety unless you want to become addicted. Even if at low doses, it doesn't take long to get addicted. He felt like shit hours after he took the meds and foggy the next day because he was going through mild withdrawals. In terms of brain chemistry, it is a bottle of wine in a pill. I am not saying benzos dont have their place. They do. But idiot doctors will sometimes tell patients this is a long term solution . It is not.

Benzos (in the very short term. i mean two weeks max and every other day) combined with behavior therapy is a good way to go. Also, talking an hour long walk on the beach will do wonders.

Druff will never do it but there are definitely edibles that would help as well. It is just about finding the right concentration and strain so you completely avoid the paranoia that will simply make things worse.

And btw, if you are taking normal doses of xanax and not mixing it with stuff, you have more of a chance of dying from choking on the pill than from the pill itself. The only time people die from taking benzos is if they take a ridiculous amount of them or mix them with other drugs (almost always an opiate) .

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Jesus Christ lose the fear mongering bullcrap. The guy wasn't going through withdrawal after taking one fucking pill. You make it sound like he went on a damn crack bender. He took one very low level dose. Probably barely enough to even do anything. A typical dose will last 4-6 hours. His lasted less than 3. That right there tells you how big the dosage was. I know you mean well but give it a rest with this going to get addicted to this stuff. It ain't happening. Ask BCR. He was addicted to benzo's and I'm pretty sure he wasn't addicted after one fucking pill. I take these things on an as needed basis on never once have I ever felt like I was going through withdrawal or that I needed to take one because I was getting addicted. It's nonsense.

He stated he was scared of the pill. So right there it's in his head so he will have some negative reaction regardless. Drugs like xanax serve a very important purpose and some would describe them as life savers. WHEN TAKEN PROPERLY. Properly is not taking them just for shits and giggles and wonder why you blacked the fuck out. That's called abuse and a waste of a perfectly good pill.

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Originally Posted by igotnotoe

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Not that simple.

People like to say, "Live a healthy lifestyle, and you'll be healthy", but that often isn't true.

FYI, I've lost 20 pounds and eaten much better since this started, but I haven't gotten better yet. In some ways I've gotten worse.

I have two separate things which are not easily cured, and neither is understood particularly well.

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He is right. If it is a panic disorder brain thing (i have no idea) exercise is going to do little to help right now. In fact, if we are dealing with panic disorder all exercise is going to do is increase heart rate and potentially create new panic attacks. The problem needs to be fixed and then you can add in all these other things. I used to get rolling panic attacks. It was like a bad drug trip. You would feel as if you were dying and then it would sort of go away only to come back. If this is what he is going through you basically cant do anything.

NO supplement is going to help cure it but supplements can help to not make it worse. For example, potassium , magnesium and a B and K multivitamin. Especially since it doesn't sound as if you are eating much.

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Must be one of the dumbest posts ever. Exercise is well documented to being a cure all for many mental disorders.
This post sounds like a grade 5 opinion on things . Studpid, stupid, stupid.
Exercise won't cure mental retardation, which is what this poster obviously has, but a case of anxiety, no problem.
Better than prescription drugs in that there are no side effects/

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Originally Posted by limitles

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Originally Posted by igotnotoe

He is right. If it is a panic disorder brain thing (i have no idea) exercise is going to do little to help right now. In fact, if we are dealing with panic disorder all exercise is going to do is increase heart rate and potentially create new panic attacks. The problem needs to be fixed and then you can add in all these other things. I used to get rolling panic attacks. It was like a bad drug trip. You would feel as if you were dying and then it would sort of go away only to come back. If this is what he is going through you basically cant do anything.

NO supplement is going to help cure it but supplements can help to not make it worse. For example, potassium , magnesium and a B and K multivitamin. Especially since it doesn't sound as if you are eating much.

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Must be one of the dumbest posts ever. Exercise is well documented to being a cure all for many mental disorders.
This post sounds like a grade 5 opinion on things . Studpid, stupid, stupid.
Exercise won't cure mental retardation, which is what this poster obviously has, but a case of anxiety, no problem.
Better than prescription drugs in that there are no side effects/

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You're 100% correct and big dick is 100% correct. Exercise is almost a cure all for anxiety related problems. The guy that said a walk on the beach. Yes that is good. Treadmill, stair climber, any cardio really. That's exercise. Eating better is nice. Going out for a peaceful walk with the family and a healthy diet would help immensely.

As much as I haven't agreed with limitless in the past the guy has been spot on this entire thread.

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Originally Posted by MumblesBadly

Druff, see this passage from the first article you linked to:

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Presence of moderate-to-severe GERD disqualified patients in some studies (Havas et al 1999; Vaezi et al 2006). Excluding patients with frequent heartburn or severe esophagitis might be problematic as the study population may not reflect daily clinical practice.

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Also, see this one from earlier in the article:

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An association between gastro-oesophageal reflux symptoms and laryngeal symptoms such as hoarseness, cough, globus sensation, throat clearing, laryngitis and pharyngitis is supported by observations of frequent occurrence of these symptoms in patients with gastro-oesophageal reflux disease (GERD). In an Italian study, 74.4% of GERD patients had at least one extra-oesophageal symptom and throat symptoms were reported by 19.9%–38.7% of the patients (Dore et al 2007).

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Now answer this question: Did you have *any* gastric reflux? Or *only* LPR symptoms in your throat? Because if you also had gastric reflux, the results of the first study you linked to do NOT apply to your case, which would be one of co-occuring symptoms, not LPR casused by some other factor (such as smoking cigarettes or exposure and inhalation of toxic fumes in a home or workplace accident,, etc.).

I ask this because I recall you mentioning that you had gastric reflux and started taking Gaviscon to keep the additional bouts of it from re-activating the pepsin in your throat.

So, while you are correct to note that LPR *by itself* is not treatable with a PPI, for those with gastric reflux, or at risk of it recurring, taking a PPI can help to reduce the likelihood that the LPR condition is prolonged by additional exposure of the throat to gastric fluid pushed up into the throat by reflux.

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Zero gastric reflux.

Ever.

Regarding Xanax, no I did not have withdrawal symptoms. I took one pill.

Unfortunately, I did have the super-drowsy "hangover" effect the following day, which is common. I didn't like that at all.

But the main reason I'm avoiding the Xanax is that I don't want to develop a habit. I realize one pill won't cause a habit, nor will two. But I feel the whole thing is pointless if it's just going to provide temporary relief, just to be right back in my original situation after a few hours.

I'm also starting to question whether my LPR symptoms are fully reflux-related, or if they are due to a combination of factors. I notice, for example, when I talk more, the symptoms get worse. There is definitely some redness/irritation in my throat. I wish I knew a way to cure that. Rinsing with Biotene mouthwash does seem to mask the symptoms of the throat irritation, at least to some degree. Not sure why, as this isn't one of the stated uses of Biotene, nor has anyone on the internet reported the same experience.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

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Originally Posted by MumblesBadly

Druff, see this passage from the first article you linked to:



Also, see this one from earlier in the article:

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An association between gastro-oesophageal reflux symptoms and laryngeal symptoms such as hoarseness, cough, globus sensation, throat clearing, laryngitis and pharyngitis is supported by observations of frequent occurrence of these symptoms in patients with gastro-oesophageal reflux disease (GERD). In an Italian study, 74.4% of GERD patients had at least one extra-oesophageal symptom and throat symptoms were reported by 19.9%–38.7% of the patients (Dore et al 2007).

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Now answer this question: Did you have *any* gastric reflux? Or *only* LPR symptoms in your throat? Because if you also had gastric reflux, the results of the first study you linked to do NOT apply to your case, which would be one of co-occuring symptoms, not LPR casused by some other factor (such as smoking cigarettes or exposure and inhalation of toxic fumes in a home or workplace accident,, etc.).

I ask this because I recall you mentioning that you had gastric reflux and started taking Gaviscon to keep the additional bouts of it from re-activating the pepsin in your throat.

So, while you are correct to note that LPR *by itself* is not treatable with a PPI, for those with gastric reflux, or at risk of it recurring, taking a PPI can help to reduce the likelihood that the LPR condition is prolonged by additional exposure of the throat to gastric fluid pushed up into the throat by reflux.

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Zero gastric reflux.

Ever.

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lol you are a nutter
realize that you are a bigger nut than most this site

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Originally Posted by limitles

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

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Originally Posted by MumblesBadly

Druff, see this passage from the first article you linked to:



Also, see this one from earlier in the article:



Now answer this question: Did you have *any* gastric reflux? Or *only* LPR symptoms in your throat? Because if you also had gastric reflux, the results of the first study you linked to do NOT apply to your case, which would be one of co-occuring symptoms, not LPR casused by some other factor (such as smoking cigarettes or exposure and inhalation of toxic fumes in a home or workplace accident,, etc.).

I ask this because I recall you mentioning that you had gastric reflux and started taking Gaviscon to keep the additional bouts of it from re-activating the pepsin in your throat.

So, while you are correct to note that LPR *by itself* is not treatable with a PPI, for those with gastric reflux, or at risk of it recurring, taking a PPI can help to reduce the likelihood that the LPR condition is prolonged by additional exposure of the throat to gastric fluid pushed up into the throat by reflux.

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Zero gastric reflux.

Ever.

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lol you are a nutter

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How am I a nutter?

I've never once had heartburn in my life. This includes now. I just don't get it.

Seems to be a familial thing. My parents have never had it, nor have my brother or sister.

Mumbles was asking a question, and I answered it.

Druff knows what he has. He just isnt telling us as it is none of our fucking business. I do think this forum has and will continue to cause stress. But I get why it is hard to shut it down. gl

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

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Originally Posted by MumblesBadly

Now answer this question: Did you have *any* gastric reflux? Or *only* LPR symptoms in your throat? Because if you also had gastric reflux, the results of the first study you linked to do NOT apply to your case, which would be one of co-occuring symptoms, not LPR casused by some other factor (such as smoking cigarettes or exposure and inhalation of toxic fumes in a home or workplace accident,, etc.).

I ask this because I recall you mentioning that you had gastric reflux and started taking Gaviscon to keep the additional bouts of it from re-activating the pepsin in your throat.

So, while you are correct to note that LPR *by itself* is not treatable with a PPI, for those with gastric reflux, or at risk of it recurring, taking a PPI can help to reduce the likelihood that the LPR condition is prolonged by additional exposure of the throat to gastric fluid pushed up into the throat by reflux.

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Zero gastric reflux.

Ever.

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That’s not what you said before.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Gaviscon doesn't prevent your stomach from producing acid, but rather blocks the acids from moving up and irritating your throat, which is what has been happening to me. Some with LPR have said it's the "only thing that works".

...What is pepsin?

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LPR is caused by a combination of acid and the stomach enzyme pepsin.

The job of pepsin is to digest proteins in the stomach. If you have LPR, pepsin gets up into your throat and airways. There it goes on with its job: digesting. It’s just that pepsin now digests the cells of your airways. That does not sound good, does it?

Pepsin is highly influenced by the presence of acid.

Usually, the pH in the throat is about neutral. Pepsin becomes inactive in such an environment. However, each time pepsin comes in contact with acidity, it becomes reactivated.

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So Gaviscon suppoedly creates a foamy coating and prevents the pepsin from moving into the throat.

Alkaline water, which I'm now drinking (bought it last night) will permanently deactivate the pepsin it comes into contact with in my throat, which could otherwise sit there causing damage for as long as weeks.

However, it will NOT prevent the reflux from continuing and shooting new pepsins into my throat, so that's where the Gaviscon comes in.

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But you DID say that you have never had *heartburn*, which if not caused by actual heart problems, is usually caused by gastric reflux. Meaning, someone can have gastric reflux without having “heartburn”.

How so? Heartburn caused by gastric reflux is due to the lower esophagus being damaged enough by the reflux such that the normal protective layer of mucous membrane isn’t thick enough to shield the nerve endings from the acid. Meaning, it is possible to have gastric reflux without having heartburn. My doctor told me this awhile back when I shared that I had regularly stopped a PPI after my heartburn symptoms went away, but they had returned a few weeks later, well past when the PPI would have been metabolized.

In other words, even though I didn’t feel the heartburn come back for over two weeks, the reflux had likely come back as soon as a few days after stopping taking the PPI, but the re-damaging of my lower esophagus didn’t get severe enough for me to feel the effect of the gastric reflux for another two weeks.

So, while you don’t have any heartburn, you most definitely have gastric reflux, but it’s likely not severe enough to damage your lower esophagus to the point of where the reflux triggers the heartburn feeling. But your reflux is enough to periodically push pepsin from your stomach up into your throat, as pepsin is only produced in the stomach, and degrades after about 24 hours.

That being said, maybe your gastric reflux isn’t severe enough to require a full regular does of a PPI, but taking a less frequent dose (e.g. once every other or third day) would help reduce the reflux you *are* having even if you don’t have heartburn. Because that pepsin isn’t getting from your stomach to your throat by some other means.

Just found a 2017 study that looks at pepsin-in-saliva detection as an alternative to endoscopic examination. Promising but still preliminary. But you probably already knew this...

The diagnostic value of pepsin detection in saliva for gastro-esophageal reflux disease: a preliminary study from China
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5645897/

But what I found in the discussion supports what I said above about how the pepsin in your throat causing LPR to develop is due to gastic reflux that isn’t severe enough to cause heartburn symptoms (GERD). And there is even a medical term for it: non-erosive reflux disease (NERD) — and is more common than heartburn.

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Recent studies showed that the PPI test and structured questionnaires did not obtain ideal sensitivity and specificity for diagnosis of GERD [4–6]. Endoscopy is not adequate since [b]non-erosive reflux disease (NERD) is more prevalent than erosive reflux disease in the GERD population[:b] [7]

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Bottom line: You definitely have had, and likely still have, some amount of gastric reflux to cause the pepsin to be present in your throat, precipitating the LPR, but not severe enough to cause erosive damage to the bottom of your esophagus.

I dont know why people think that Druff doesnt exercise.

Each post he makes burns about 300 calories. Those fingers move like wildfire through the keyboard.

Ever heard of HIIT?

High Intensity Interval Typing.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

This paper in 2017 claimed that a “plant based diet” and Alkaline water were more effective in treating LPR than the PPIs: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28880991 (abstract only)

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Druff, I got around to looking at this and have the following comments:

PRO: Sample sizes seem sufficient for prelimary positive finding that would warrant additional research with much larger samples for robustness check of primary reported finding.

CON: Without seeing the full article, we don’t know whether the researchers controlled for ancillary factors (such as relative weight loss across the sample), study participant selection bias (e.g. did participants get to choose which treatment regimen to follow?), or study participant survival bias (e.g. what percentage of plant-based dirt subjects dropped out of final sample because the diet was too hard for them).

Given these points, and your strong reluctance to taking a PPI, have you started trying the alkaline water/plant-based diet referred to in the study abstract, i.e. a Mediterranian-style diet?

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Originally Posted by MumblesBadly

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

This paper in 2017 claimed that a “plant based diet” and Alkaline water were more effective in treating LPR than the PPIs: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28880991 (abstract only)

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Druff, I got around to looking at this and have the following comments:

PRO: Sample sizes seem sufficient for prelimary positive finding that would warrant additional research with much larger samples for robustness check of primary reported finding.

CON: With seeing the full article, we don’t know the researchers controlled for ancillary factors (such as relative weight loss across the sample), study participant selection bias (e.g. did participants get to choose which treatment regimen to follow?), or study participant survival bias (e.g. what percentage of plant-based dirt subjects dropped out of final sample because the diet was too hard for them).

Given these points, and your strong reluctance to taking a PPI, have you started trying the alkaline water/plant-based diet referred to in the study? Te abstract, i.e. a Mediterranian-style diet?

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He would probably feel a lot better if you posted less, just sayin

Jesus Mumbles, do you have stock in the treadmill industry? you come off like a salesman, you've mentioned it about 100 times ITT, give it a rest.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Regarding Xanax, no I did not have withdrawal symptoms. I took one pill.

Unfortunately, I did have the super-drowsy "hangover" effect the following day, which is common. I didn't like that at all.

But the main reason I'm avoiding the Xanax is that I don't want to develop a habit. I realize one pill won't cause a habit, nor will two. But I feel the whole thing is pointless if it's just going to provide temporary relief, just to be right back in my original situation after a few hours.

I'm also starting to question whether my LPR symptoms are fully reflux-related, or if they are due to a combination of factors. I notice, for example, when I talk more, the symptoms get worse. There is definitely some redness/irritation in my throat. I wish I knew a way to cure that. Rinsing with Biotene mouthwash does seem to mask the symptoms of the throat irritation, at least to some degree. Not sure why, as this isn't one of the stated uses of Biotene, nor has anyone on the internet reported the same experience.

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A hangover from xanax is a withdrawal . If you took another pill you would feel fine again like you did for those few hours. There is a misconception that you cant go through a withdrawal after doing something once which just isnt true. There are just different degrees depending on length of use, type of substance, and genetics.

Xanax wtf, you need to find a large pool of normal people who've been on them. There's a shit load of the very best propaganda money can buy in the Pharma industry. You have to steer clear of Scientology shills and big pharma shills and find the real people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OL318Xj8pfI

Being a Dr or really smart or in the industry doesn't mean you're less vulnerable to propaganda aka advertising. As a matter of fact the opposite may be true since they're in it up to their necks. For someone like Druff who's never smoked weed or even drank or has any experience w addiction to take something that addictive and powerful is bad news. What if he really liked that Xanax...

Go in w a real ailment come out w an addictive psych med.
SHOCKER


There's like 150 people dying everyday from opiates OD's and much of it started w listening to their doctor, fuck them they have no cred.