*** OFFICIAL *** 2017-18 NBA Thread

Sooo the cavs just gave up 80 fucking points in the first half at home vs the raps, going down 15.

But lebron decided to score 35, collect 17 assists and just never turn the ball over. Not even once. Cavs win.

At risk of troll accusations i have to mention that it makes me laugh when i think about druffs big concern with his lakers possibly not getting their $40mil worth out of the back end of a potential max contract if he were to decide to head to LA.

Time for you old mfs to let go. Hes better than MJ. He just is. Hes second in the league in fucking assists. Its like he just gets bored and decides to tweak out on a stat line that he thinks will be fun.

I just hope we get to see him shit on the celtics in the playoffs. I love me some kyrie and tatum but boston sports homers annoy the hell out of me. (Apologies to sanlmar/crowe/kunt/whoever else)

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Originally Posted by varys

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Originally Posted by blake

if you look at the rockets' cap situation, it seems impossible for lebron to go there. they'll be over the projected cap next year with chris paul's cap hold.

if they somehow manage to trade everyone outside of capela, gordon, paul and harden and take back zero salary (good luck trading ryan anderson's $20,000,000 next year without taking any money back), they would still only be under the cap by about $9 million

that's more than $20,000,000 less than what lebron could get from cleveland, philly and LA

i just can't see him accepting that

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Imo what lebron decides to do is dependent on how this season wraps up. For starters if they dont make the finals you can count on burning cleveland jerseys.

After that we’ll see where that brooklyn pick ends up. If they swoop the east and take whoever to 6/7 games somehow AND have a shot at drafting one of ayton/mo bamba/collin sexton/mykal bridges then he might be tempted to try again. The other question if they pick in the top 6/7 is who of the handful of disgruntled kinda-stars can they deal for?

But seriously who wants to see him in cleveland again... i like this young lakers core but I think even if they land lebron and paul george theyre probably still at least a year away and we know homeboy aint real patient.

Philly is half interesting but simmons is definitely nowhere near the kind of player lebron likes sharing the floor with. He has taken 0 (ZERO) three pointers this season that werent attempted buzzer beaters. Thats fucking incredible for an all star caliber guard in 2018. You could point to his situation with d wade but i always felt like staggered minutes was how they both got to eat. Plus looking back now the rest of that miami roster and spoelstra were extremely underrated. Spo could probably have all but 3 or 4 jobs of his choice right now. In other words, as good as d wade still was around 2013 you could easily argue that miami would have been more dominant with a lesser player who had a skillset that was more complementary to lebrons. (think kyle lowry or mike conley) You could also argue that bosh was more valuable to those teams than wade.

I dont have anything solid to refute what blake said about him fitting into houstons cap space except:
1)those in the know seem to have found a way or two that they can pay him the max and
2)he WILL be getting paid the max. I think ive mentioned on this site before that him (being the best in the world) taking less potentially fucks over his fellow players contract negotiations. Harrison “6th best player for the dubs” barnes obviously doesnt get anything close to the 4/$94mil deal he inked if the best in the game arent getting paid as though thats what they are.

Oh and gordon would 100% be dealt if LBJ chose houston.

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i read an article today saying that one possibility would be for lebron to do what chris paul did and tell the cavs that he is going to houston one way or another, hoping that they will agree to take back ryan anderson's contract and maybe a couple of 1st round picks in a sign and trade

i can easily see dan gilbert being too spiteful to accommodate lebron though

aside from that, i still haven't read any scenario where the rockets can actually give lebron anywhere near a max contract (unless cp3 agrees to take mid-level exception money)

Cleveland confuses the hell outta me...don't know what to expect outta LeBron and when you bet on them that's all that really matters...

my book took down NBA futures, but last time they had them up CLV was + money to win the east...I cant get a feel for how LeBron is gonna do the playoffs, but to get him at + money probably seems like one of those things where you just hold your nose and do it...while it might not be a huge value, I gotta believe there is some value on the cavs to win the east at +100/+110...

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Originally Posted by blake

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Originally Posted by varys

Imo what lebron decides to do is dependent on how this season wraps up. For starters if they dont make the finals you can count on burning cleveland jerseys.

After that we’ll see where that brooklyn pick ends up. If they swoop the east and take whoever to 6/7 games somehow AND have a shot at drafting one of ayton/mo bamba/collin sexton/mykal bridges then he might be tempted to try again. The other question if they pick in the top 6/7 is who of the handful of disgruntled kinda-stars can they deal for?

But seriously who wants to see him in cleveland again... i like this young lakers core but I think even if they land lebron and paul george theyre probably still at least a year away and we know homeboy aint real patient.

Philly is half interesting but simmons is definitely nowhere near the kind of player lebron likes sharing the floor with. He has taken 0 (ZERO) three pointers this season that werent attempted buzzer beaters. Thats fucking incredible for an all star caliber guard in 2018. You could point to his situation with d wade but i always felt like staggered minutes was how they both got to eat. Plus looking back now the rest of that miami roster and spoelstra were extremely underrated. Spo could probably have all but 3 or 4 jobs of his choice right now. In other words, as good as d wade still was around 2013 you could easily argue that miami would have been more dominant with a lesser player who had a skillset that was more complementary to lebrons. (think kyle lowry or mike conley) You could also argue that bosh was more valuable to those teams than wade.

I dont have anything solid to refute what blake said about him fitting into houstons cap space except:
1)those in the know seem to have found a way or two that they can pay him the max and
2)he WILL be getting paid the max. I think ive mentioned on this site before that him (being the best in the world) taking less potentially fucks over his fellow players contract negotiations. Harrison “6th best player for the dubs” barnes obviously doesnt get anything close to the 4/$94mil deal he inked if the best in the game arent getting paid as though thats what they are.

Oh and gordon would 100% be dealt if LBJ chose houston.

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i read an article today saying that one possibility would be for lebron to do what chris paul did and tell the cavs that he is going to houston one way or another, hoping that they will agree to take back ryan anderson's contract and maybe a couple of 1st round picks in a sign and trade

i can easily see dan gilbert being too spiteful to accommodate lebron though

aside from that, i still haven't read any scenario where the rockets can actually give lebron anywhere near a max contract (unless cp3 agrees to take mid-level exception money)

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Man ive skimmed so many articles this season that touch on this move that im pretty shocked that i didnt immediately find one on google laying out how this would work. I definitely cant see how capela or gordon could stay on board unless both +cp3 agree to take pennies.

Dan gilbert is obv a gigantic douche but would he REALLY let the best player on the planet walk for nothing just as a “fuck you” to lebron and his new team?

Jesus christ maybe he actually would.

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Originally Posted by varys

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Originally Posted by blake

i read an article today saying that one possibility would be for lebron to do what chris paul did and tell the cavs that he is going to houston one way or another, hoping that they will agree to take back ryan anderson's contract and maybe a couple of 1st round picks in a sign and trade

i can easily see dan gilbert being too spiteful to accommodate lebron though

aside from that, i still haven't read any scenario where the rockets can actually give lebron anywhere near a max contract (unless cp3 agrees to take mid-level exception money)

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Man ive skimmed so many articles this season that touch on this move that im pretty shocked that i didnt immediately find one on google laying out how this would work. I definitely cant see how capela or gordon could stay on board unless both +cp3 agree to take pennies.

Dan gilbert is obv a gigantic douche but would he REALLY let the best player on the planet walk for nothing just as a “fuck you” to lebron and his new team?

Jesus christ maybe he actually would.

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I don't want to call something a lock, but yeah he would...remember how pissy he got the FIRST time LeBron left? he leaves again I can wait to see the PMS tantrum he unleashes...gilbert will do anything he can to make sure LeBron doesn't get exactly to where he wants to get to if he can...

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Originally Posted by GambleBotsChafedPenis

Cleveland confuses the hell outta me...don't know what to expect outta LeBron and when you bet on them that's all that really matters...

my book took down NBA futures, but last time they had them up CLV was + money to win the east...I cant get a feel for how LeBron is gonna do the playoffs,but to get him at + money probably seems like one of those things where you just hold your nose and do it...while it might not be a huge value, I gotta believe there is some value on the cavs to win the east at +100/+110...

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I assume you mean youre not sure how cleveland will do in the playoffs right? I think we know by now that lebron will play lights out and average close to a triple double if he needs to.

The question is...how much help will he get? If injuries dont destroy them (especially kevin love) they should end up right back in the finals. Think back to 2015. He dragged a starting lineup of a 20 year old tristan thompson, jr smith, shumpert and matthew fucking dellevedova through the east and managed to go up 2-1 against golden st in the finals before the dream ended.

None of those four guys would have cracked the starting lineup for any other playoff team that year.

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Originally Posted by varys

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Originally Posted by GambleBotsChafedPenis

Cleveland confuses the hell outta me...don't know what to expect outta LeBron and when you bet on them that's all that really matters...

my book took down NBA futures, but last time they had them up CLV was + money to win the east...I cant get a feel for how LeBron is gonna do the playoffs,but to get him at + money probably seems like one of those things where you just hold your nose and do it...while it might not be a huge value, I gotta believe there is some value on the cavs to win the east at +100/+110...

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I assume you mean youre not sure how cleveland will do in the playoffs right? I think we know by now that lebron will play lights out and average close to a triple double if he needs to.

The question is...how much help will he get? If injuries dont destroy them (especially kevin love) they should end up right back in the finals. Think back to 2015. He dragged a starting lineup of a 20 year old tristan thompson, jr smith, shumpert and matthew fucking dellevedova through the east and managed to go up 2-1 against golden st in the finals before the dream ended.

None of those four guys would have cracked the starting lineup for any other playoff team that year.

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yeah but he did torch that one playoff year, pretty sure it was the one right before he left for Miami (maybe my memory is off on that, but coulda sworn he did)...so it's not outta the realm of possibilities he can do it again on his way out the door again...

if he is in full FU mode and has love healthy then it's a slam dunk value at + money...

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Originally Posted by GambleBotsChafedPenis

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Originally Posted by varys

Man ive skimmed so many articles this season that touch on this move that im pretty shocked that i didnt immediately find one on google laying out how this would work. I definitely cant see how capela or gordon could stay on board unless both +cp3 agree to take pennies.

Dan gilbert is obv a gigantic douche but would he REALLY let the best player on the planet walk for nothing just as a “fuck you” to lebron and his new team?

Jesus christ maybe he actually would.

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I don't want to call something a lock, but yeah he would...remember how pissy he got the FIRST time LeBron left? he leaves again I can wait to see the PMS tantrum he unleashes...gilbert will do anything he can to make sure LeBron doesn't get exactly to where he wants to get to if he can...

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He obviously panders to his fan base like a complete bitch. My gut tells me the devidees of the world would accept a shittier team if it meant making life slightly more difficult for their hero turned traitor turned... yeah

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Originally Posted by GambleBotsChafedPenis

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Originally Posted by varys

Man ive skimmed so many articles this season that touch on this move that im pretty shocked that i didnt immediately find one on google laying out how this would work. I definitely cant see how capela or gordon could stay on board unless both +cp3 agree to take pennies.

Dan gilbert is obv a gigantic douche but would he REALLY let the best player on the planet walk for nothing just as a “fuck you” to lebron and his new team?

Jesus christ maybe he actually would.

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I don't want to call something a lock, but yeah he would...remember how pissy he got the FIRST time LeBron left? he leaves again I can wait to see the PMS tantrum he unleashes...gilbert will do anything he can to make sure LeBron doesn't get exactly to where he wants to get to if he can...

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First off, as pissed as he was, he still did a sign and trade with Miami for Lebron.


This time though, it would make zero sense because he’s in cap space hell spending twice as much on repeater tax as the payroll, so he’s never ever taking on a Ryan Anderson, which is a shitty expensive contract for a few late late first round picks which have little value. It would be the equivalent of paying like $120 million a year tax for Anderson and a few late firsts. You’ll pay $$150 million in tax to retain Lebron, but never close to that for garbage. It would be beyond idiotic, and still not close to enough cap space for Houston anyway. It was only doable for Miami because he took less. He’s vowed to never do that again.


The Cavs can’t do any sign and trade for him that takes back anyone making any real money. They’d need to do something like Ingram, Kuzma, and 3 firsts to the Lakers for it to be worth it to them. Low salary upside guys and a bunch of picks to get under tax threshold. And at that point, why does he even want to go play with a team that just shed their two best young prospects. He’d simply sign with them if he really wanted to go even if his max would be slightly less with them.

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Originally Posted by BCR

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Originally Posted by GambleBotsChafedPenis

I don't want to call something a lock, but yeah he would...remember how pissy he got the FIRST time LeBron left? he leaves again I can wait to see the PMS tantrum he unleashes...gilbert will do anything he can to make sure LeBron doesn't get exactly to where he wants to get to if he can...

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First off, as pissed as he was, he still did a sign and trade with Miami for Lebron.


This time though, it would make zero sense because he’s in cap space hell spending twice as much on repeater tax as the payroll, so he’s never ever taking on a Ryan Anderson, which is a shitty expensive contract for a few late late first round picks which have little value. It would be the equivalent of paying like $120 million a year tax for Anderson and a few late firsts. You’ll pay $$150 million in tax to retain Lebron, but never close to that for garbage. It would be beyond idiotic, and still not close to enough cap space for Houston anyway. It was only doable for Miami because he took less. He’s vowed to never do that again.


The Cavs can’t do any sign and trade for him that takes back anyone making any real money. They’d need to do something like Ingram, Kuzma, and 3 firsts to the Lakers for it to be worth it to them. Low salary upside guys and a bunch of picks to get under tax threshold. And at that point, why does he even want to go play with a team that just shed their two best young prospects. He’d simply sign with them if he really wanted to go even if his max would be slightly less with them.

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interesting...didn't remember them getting anything back...just thought he jetted in FA...

but you hit the nail on the head...BFD, they sign and trade LeBron to HOU/LAL...two first round picks are going to be fucking useless...might the hell as well get 2nd rounders that don't have guaranteed contracts...

the 76ers could make this a little interesting by trading covington and one or 2 first round picks (including their own, or the lakers or kings pick) for paul george (if you could get him to opt into his contract and he wants to leave OKC).

sixers would still have the cap room to give lebron close to a max deal

lebron, paul george, ben simmons, embiid, dario saric and fultz (god willing) would be impressive

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Originally Posted by blake

the 76ers could make this a little interesting by trading covington and one or 2 first round picks (including their own, or the lakers or kings pick) for paul george (if you could get him to opt into his contract and he wants to leave OKC).

sixers would still have the cap room to give lebron close to a max deal

lebron, paul george, ben simmons, embiid, dario saric and fultz (god willing) would be impressive

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Philly would be the best pure destination if he wants to title. He’s said he’ll never take less than max. Cleveland will do a sign and trade, but only for a boatload of picks, no money. That he simply walks is preferable to taking on any salary. It sure looks like if he leaves, he’ll simply walk, because there really is no plausible sign and trade that makes sense for both parties. As it stands, if Cleveland were to retain their present team next season, it would cost $300 million for a projected $108 million salary cap. So something has to give if Lebron wants to go. He can either back down from his vow to never take less than max or go somewhere that simply has the room and have a far worse team. Gilbert needs to dip below cap for a year to reset. He knows he’ll suck, so he’s on record he won’t pay tax if Lebron leaves.That repeater tax grows exponentially more punitive each year over the cap. You go under for a year, it starts over. Add in the fact that George is on record as saying he only wants to go to LA, and Lebron buying two houses there, and they’re going to have to both really really want to win above all else to go to Philly. I just can’t see any way Houston can make it work because they’d need to shed a ton of $, with the Cavs unwilling to take any of it on. He could take slightly less from them and break even because of no state tax, but it’s still basically undoable.

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Originally Posted by blake

the 76ers could make this a little interesting by trading covington and one or 2 first round picks (including their own, or the lakers or kings pick) for paul george (if you could get him to opt into his contract and he wants to leave OKC).

sixers would still have the cap room to give lebron close to a max deal

lebron, paul george, ben simmons, embiid, dario saric and fultz (god willing) would be impressive

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Absent: shooting

think I posted that whole CLV salary cap thing a few pages back because ESPN did a story on it...

but mind blown that ryan Anderson would be basically a $120M a year player in that sign/trade scenario...

I'm obviously hugely biased, but if they got NOVAs bridges that aint exactly a terrible piece to bottom out with and get to the top of the lotto in '19...

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Originally Posted by varys

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Originally Posted by blake

the 76ers could make this a little interesting by trading covington and one or 2 first round picks (including their own, or the lakers or kings pick) for paul george (if you could get him to opt into his contract and he wants to leave OKC).

sixers would still have the cap room to give lebron close to a max deal

lebron, paul george, ben simmons, embiid, dario saric and fultz (god willing) would be impressive

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Absent: shooting

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saric and george can shoot, but i admit i'm not sure that simmons and lebron would work well together

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Originally Posted by GambleBotsChafedPenis

think I posted that whole CLV salary cap thing a few pages back because ESPN did a story on it...

but mind blown that ryan Anderson would be basically a $120M a year player in that sign/trade scenario...

I'm obviously hugely biased, but if they got NOVAs bridges that aint exactly a terrible piece to bottom out with and get to the top of the lotto in '19...

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The only way he wouldn’t would be is if the Cavs were to decide to trade Love for purely picks, and even that wouldn’t get them there because they have that shitty Thompson and JR salary on the books. Swapping out Lebron’s $40 million or whatever for Anderson’s $22 million wouldn’t be close to enough to get under. So they’d still be paying like $270 million instead of $300 million next year for a lotto team. That’s like $150 million more than he wants to spend if Lebron walks.They’d need to find someone willing to take on Thompson and JR, which would require the Cavs adding the very picks they just acquired in any sign and trade just to dump those two. Even if they were inclined to indulge Lebron, it’s almost impossible to do.

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Originally Posted by blake

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Originally Posted by varys

Absent: shooting

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saric and george can shoot, but i admit i'm not sure that simmons and lebron would work well together

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At this point in his career Lebron functions the best when he is the ball handler and there is 3 guys standing around the 3 point line for him to pass to. Yeah, I don't see any way to make it work with Simmons. He is making way too much money and would have to sign a smaller contract, but Reddick would probably be fine. A Lebron, George, Saric, Embiid, Reddick lineup sounds interesting, with Fultz getting into mix when he gets over whatever is going on. I don't even know if it is possibly to do a sign and trade for Simmons and picks, but sounds like something that could work if it was all orchestrated ahead of time.

Edit: I dunno how that works defensively though. I dunno if Reddick can defend PGs effectively, which is what he would be asked to do in the fantasy scenario I made up.

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Originally Posted by BCR

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Originally Posted by GambleBotsChafedPenis

think I posted that whole CLV salary cap thing a few pages back because ESPN did a story on it...

but mind blown that ryan Anderson would be basically a $120M a year player in that sign/trade scenario...

I'm obviously hugely biased, but if they got NOVAs bridges that aint exactly a terrible piece to bottom out with and get to the top of the lotto in '19...

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The only way he wouldn’t would be is if the Cavs were to decide to trade Love for purely picks, and even that wouldn’t get them there because they have that shitty Thompson and JR salary on the books. Swapping out Lebron’s $40 million or whatever for Anderson’s $22 million wouldn’t be close to enough to get under. So they’d still be paying like $270 million instead of $300 million next year for a lotto team. That’s like $150 million more than he wants to spend if Lebron walks.They’d need to find someone willing to take on Thompson and JR, which would require the Cavs adding the very picks they just acquired in any sign and trade just to dump those two. Even if they were inclined to indulge Lebron, it’s almost impossible to do.

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I bet when LeBron jets that's gonna be his final 'fuck you' to gilbert...again if memory serves, he pushed for Thompson to get that huge contract because maverick carter is Thompson's agent as well...

We are getting to the point where philly may not be willing to deal simmons for lebron though. Lbj for all his greatness is pushing 34 while ben is only 20 and is already a jumpshot away from being a legit superstar. If philly thinks he can turn into any kind of threat from behind the arc then im guessing we are looking at one of the first scenarios where a player is completely unavailable, even when lebron is in the mix.

Im not convinced he will ever shoot around league avg or better from deep though since at this point he doesnt even try. Every 3pt attempt he has this season is from beyond half court in a buzzer beater scenario. Even though his vision, passing, and finishing around the rim are already elite, he becomes much less useful in PNRs and is a whole lot easier to gameplan for on defense if you know he is rarely if ever going to pull up.

Watching the Laker game now. Have a major grunch. I know the whole "thing" now is when a shot is up for everyone to run back on D to stop transition, but I think it has gotten out of control and teams are hurting themselves. For example, with a couple minutes left in the Laker game where they are down by 1, Lonzo takes a 3 pointer and it bricks and Randle is the only one going for the rebound and he knocks it back to the open area around the 3 point line where some Lakers should be, but all 4 other guys had already turned their back and were running back, and Pelicans got the loose ball.

I just see stuff like this over and over and over. I am really curious if it is really +EV to always get back on D and never crash the boards like most teams do now. I know the Spurs started this a while ago and their record the last 15 years speaks for itself, but I am wondering if it is really as +EV to basically never go for O rebounds like most teams do now, especially at the end of a close game like this.