Was a hand I played recently played correctly??

Upfront, I have played hundreds of mtts (recreationally), and can pretty much spot differences between good and bad plays (at the low levels that I play at), but the following hand frankly puzzled me. I'm not sure if I played it optimally or not. I'd like to hear perspective from someone with more advanced skills.

This occurred in the middle stages of a nlhe mtt on a full table where the 3 of us involved had relatively deep stacks and were sized fairly equal.

Preflop: a player open min raises, another player calls, I call with Ac Qd, in position


flop Ad As Ts


first player checks, 2nd player checks, and I checked too (which I rarely do in a situation like this, but I didn't want to play a big pot just yet)


Turn was Jd, board is now Ad As Ts Jd (other than another spade, possibly the worst card to flop)


1st player now shoves, 2nd shoves; it seemed apparent to me that at least one has KQ so I reluctantly fold

It turned out both had KQ, making my pot equity following the turn at 20%, theirs 40% each

Even if I somehow knew what they were holding prior to the river card, should I have called and gambled FTW? What decision process could I have used to help decide? Am I missing something obvious or did I play this reasonably, considering everything?

not that it matters, but the river was the Jc

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Originally Posted by Sitting Out

Upfront, I have played hundreds of mtts (recreationally), and can pretty much spot differences between good and bad plays (at the low levels that I play at), but the following hand frankly puzzled me. I'm not sure if I played it optimally or not. I'd like to hear perspective from someone with more advanced skills.

This occurred in the middle stages of a nlhe mtt on a full table where the 3 of us involved had relatively deep stacks and were sized fairly equal.

Preflop: a player open min raises, another player calls, I call with Ac Qd, in position


flop Ad As Ts


first player checks, 2nd player checks, and I checked too (which I rarely do in a situation like this, but I didn't want to play a big pot just yet)


Turn was Jd, board is now Ad As Ts Jd (other than another spade, possibly the worst card to flop)


1st player now shoves, 2nd shoves; it seemed apparent to me that at least one has KQ so I reluctantly fold

It turned out both had KQ, making my pot equity following the turn at 20%, theirs 40% each

Even if I somehow knew what they were holding prior to the river card, should I have called and gambled FTW? What decision process could I have used to help decide? Am I missing something obvious or did I play this reasonably, considering everything?

not that it matters, but the river was the Jc

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Blinds and stack sizes (even though you said they were equal we need to know how many BB deep) are important in this, as well are any reads you had on the particular players. When you say call to gamble what do you mean exactly? What if someone had AJ suited then you have a 3 outer. At best you have 10 outs which means you need 5:1 odds to make it a mathematically correct play. Lots of information missing but the fold seems fine, don't get upset the jack hit.

A) Is this live on online? What position did the opener min-raise? Where you OTB?

B) Hand played is fine. Either check the flop and evaluate further streets, or 2/3rds-to potting that flop.

Thanks John for the reply. I don't remember where we were with the blinds, but I will record that in the future along with any reads I might have should I wish to post another hand. This was an online mtt and I was OTB.

You helped me a great deal by putting the table odds into better prospective. You stated I needed 5:1 to call post flop assuming I was only facing KQ. With the 2 allins, I was getting better than 5:1. However, if I was was facing AJ (a real possibility), then I wouldn't be getting correct odds, I would be very far behind. So in summary, the conservative and correct move would be to fold and wait for a better spot. In the future, I'll slow down a bit and give situations like these more thought and deeper analysis.

Once you checked behind, I agree with the fold on the turn against 2 shoves, unless both were very short stacked.

I don't agree with checking behind the flop, for exactly the reason of what happened. It becomes too hard to play on the tun unless your hand improves, which probably won't happen. So what if there's a bet on the turn and a call? Do you call? Then do you call a bet on the river?

I would have just bet the flop and gone from there. Of course, stack sizes are very relevant here. If you aren't deep, or if both opponents aren't, you are pot committed to this hand no matter what.

Also, I would have 3-bet the AQ to a middle or late position open, even with a caller in between. What position was the initial raiser?

We need a hand converter here.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Once you checked behind, I agree with the fold on the turn against 2 shoves, unless both were very short stacked.

I don't agree with checking behind the flop, for exactly the reason of what happened. It becomes too hard to play on the tun unless your hand improves, which probably won't happen. So what if there's a bet on the turn and a call? Do you call? Then do you call a bet on the river?

I would have just bet the flop and gone from there. Of course, stack sizes are very relevant here. If you aren't deep, or if both opponents aren't, you are pot committed to this hand no matter what.

Also, I would have 3-bet the AQ to a middle or late position open, even with a caller in between. What position was the initial raiser?

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John Stamos and Druff gave great analysis here. Such a rotten little bastard of a hand! I don't really understand how there is such little discussion about poker on this site with a bunch of poker players with the best stories and insights about the game. If anyone ever wants to tell their own stories or discuss hands you'll have at least one appreciative reader.

I'm sick of the politics and fear porn.