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Thread: *** Official WSOP 2013 Discussion/Rail Thread

  1. #381
    Nice run, Druff. Gl in your other events.

  2. #382
    Serial Blogger BeerAndPoker's Avatar
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    For those who can view WSOP events on ESPN site here is the archived link for the entire stream of the $5k Limit Holdem with Druff at the FT.

    http://espn.go.com/watchespn/player/_/id/971261/

    I'm not sure how long they will keep this on the site but probably for a couple weeks or so since all the events from June 1st onward are still available to stream.

  3. #383
    Gold Deal's Avatar
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    The only time I thought the commentators crossed the line was when they were rooting for someone to tilt Druff. They stepped over the line when they said they were going to show him a replay of a hand that in their opinion would tilt him. That means they have no scruples about actually impacting the play at the table they are commenting on. I have no idea if they followed through and did it. If so, they should be reminded that they are there to commentate on the action not to influence it.

    There were multiple times where they complimented Druff's knowledge of the game as well as a few times they were critical of certain aspects of it. Overall it was balanced and fair with that one blemish noted above. I stopped watching at the dinner break.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jasep View Post
    I have always tried to carry myself with a high level of integrity in the poker community and I take it very personally when someone calls that in to question.

  4. #384
    Gold Bootsy Collins's Avatar
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    Good run Druff.

  5. #385
    Diamond chinamaniac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanlmar View Post
    I genuinely could not understand the commentators feeling that Nassif had an edge on Moore. Nassif had no credentials beyond the game of Magic and the feeling he was some sort of "genius". Oh yeah, he was younger.

    Nassif had good discipline but his play was standard IMO. It was Moore who showed creativity.
    I think I played with Nassif in one of these events 2010,2011 and 2012. I agree his play is standard. He just seemed very ABC tightish when I played with him.

  6. #386
    Platinum JimmyG_415's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chinamaniac View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sanlmar View Post
    I genuinely could not understand the commentators feeling that Nassif had an edge on Moore. Nassif had no credentials beyond the game of Magic and the feeling he was some sort of "genius". Oh yeah, he was younger.

    Nassif had good discipline but his play was standard IMO. It was Moore who showed creativity.
    I think I played with Nassif in one of these events 2010,2011 and 2012. I agree his play is standard. He just seemed very ABC tightish when I played with him.
    I think he made some incredible lay downs, like beer and poker said, the odds were so overwhelming for him to call, ...... a few times.
    saved his 1 or 2 BB, He got lucky and doubled up soon after those.
    He could been out way earlier w/no one saying he played bad.
    Last edited by JimmyG_415; 06-23-2013 at 12:53 PM.

  7. #387
    King of the Carts BUBBLES's Avatar
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    Comments
      
      4Dragons: nice find
      
      rickastley: what 4d said. didn't see this yet

  8. #388
    Bronze VegasJim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Oh, not that this really matters much, but with this cash I moved into the #10 spot in all-time money cashed in WSOP Limit Holdem events ($547k), just a few thousand ahead of Brock Parker.
    It will matter next year when deciding what to charge for markup on next years BAP.

  9. #389
    Bronze Sitting Out's Avatar
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    One comment by a commentator I found to be genuinely unrespectable to Druff. I don't remember when it was said or who said it, but sometime early. It went something like this and I'm paraphrasing "...the 4 best players at this table are ....." and Druff wasn't mentioned as one of them. It made me feel either he was uninformed or as said before here, just a dig to Druff.

    I enjoyed the watching the FT, but the structure towards the end was horrendous, which basically turned the play into a luckfest. It wasn't fair to the players, but even so, it did take 12 hours for 9 players to finish.

    Aside from that, I think Druff would make an excellent commentator. I would encourage him to give it a try if he's so inclined and had the time.

  10. #390
    Diamond PLOL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeerAndPoker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Deal View Post
    Nice run Druff. GL in the Main.

    At what payout level do they withhold taxes at the cage?
    They are required by law at $5k to withhold 25% for Federal Tax for poker tournament winnings.

    One reason many International players don't want to play at the WSOP is they withhold 30% up front and in some country jurisdictions they aren't even taxed on gambling at all.
    This is not accurate. They don't withhold anything. You just fill out a form and take care of taxes on your own (unless you're a foreigner. Then it depends on the country).
    TRUMP 2024!

    Quote Originally Posted by verminaard View Post
    Just non-stop unrelenting LGBT propaganda being shoved down our throats.

  11. #391
    Bronze SenseiKreese's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalBornHustler View Post
    Chip Count -

    1. Aleska - 716k
    2. Druff - 456k
    3. Twink - 397k
    4. Bardah - 315k
    5. Meuller - 262k
    6. Chink - 170k
    7. Terrorist - 153k
    8. Old Man - 81k

    9. Bonomo - out


    Druff, when you do your FT analysis on your next show, please refer to your opponents as such. It will bring the hits!

  12. #392
    Serial Blogger BeerAndPoker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PLOL View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by BeerAndPoker View Post

    They are required by law at $5k to withhold 25% for Federal Tax for poker tournament winnings.

    One reason many International players don't want to play at the WSOP is they withhold 30% up front and in some country jurisdictions they aren't even taxed on gambling at all.
    This is not accurate. They don't withhold anything. You just fill out a form and take care of taxes on your own (unless you're a foreigner. Then it depends on the country).
    I knew they at least gave you the tax form but thought I read anything over $5k they withheld 25% for federal taxes. So I take it then they just ask for your id and social security card which if you don't provide that then is probably when they withhold something like 28% if I'm not mistaken.

  13. #393
    Diamond PLOL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeerAndPoker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by PLOL View Post
    This is not accurate. They don't withhold anything. You just fill out a form and take care of taxes on your own (unless you're a foreigner. Then it depends on the country).
    I knew they at least gave you the tax form but thought I read anything over $5k they withheld 25% for federal taxes. So I take it then they just ask for your id and social security card which if you don't provide that then is probably when they withhold something like 28% if I'm not mistaken.
    If you don't give them your SSN then they withhold 28%. But otherwise they don't withhold anything. I don't think anybody would play tournaments if they did
    TRUMP 2024!

    Quote Originally Posted by verminaard View Post
    Just non-stop unrelenting LGBT propaganda being shoved down our throats.

  14. #394
    *giggling*
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    very disappointed in your dress sense

     
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      anonamoose: i'm more disappointed that you're back

  15. #395
    Silver Indyrick's Avatar
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    Well Done Druff.

  16. #396
    Diamond DRK Star's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deal View Post
    The only time I thought the commentators crossed the line was when they were rooting for someone to tilt Druff. They stepped over the line when they said they were going to show him a replay of a hand that in their opinion would tilt him. That means they have no scruples about actually impacting the play at the table they are commenting on. I have no idea if they followed through and did it. If so, they should be reminded that they are there to commentate on the action not to influence it.

    There were multiple times where they complimented Druff's knowledge of the game as well as a few times they were critical of certain aspects of it. Overall it was balanced and fair with that one blemish noted above. I stopped watching at the dinner break.

    Oh man...I totally forgot about that. Great point. That was total bullshit on the part of the commentators. Nice impartiality there.

  17. #397
    Platinum GrenadaRoger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Q: It seems like David Baker didn't like you. It seemed he took every opportunity to bash you. Is there any kind of history between you two?

    A: Yes, but it's a stupid history. In 2007, a limit player from Katy, TX (David's city) showed up on Absolute Poker. At first I thought it was David, with whom I had no problem at the time. I asked him if he was David, and the guy said he was actually an 18-year-old from Katy, but knew of David. From that point, it became an inside joke where I'd put "nh David" when he'd win a pot, and stuff like that. Then he started typing in the chat that I was actually the one who was David Baker. It was all harmless, and everyone knew it was all a joke. I also never went along with his claims that I was David Baker when the kid said it. Anyway, somehow this got back to David and he mentioned it during a 100-200 game at Commerce. He said that he heard I was "impersonating certain people" online. I knew exactly what he was referring to, and told him the whole story. He just grumbled and didn't really respond, and I could tell he didn't believe me. Ever since then, he has been generally rude and surly to me whenever I play with him, and while we never had any direct confrontations, I could tell for certain that he really disliked me.
    obviously, your game is too strong for him to welcome you at any table at which he is playing
    (long before there was a PFA i had my Grenade & Crossbones avatar at DD)

  18. #398
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    Not sure why everyone is congratulating you - I'd be pretty disappointed if I were in your shoes.

    I felt like you were super unlucky to finish where you did and obviously the french magic the gathering kid was super lucky. The structure has always sucked with the limit events the deeper the tournament gets. This one was no exception.

    And of course the worst player won, so it really played out about like it was supposed to - real crap-shooty where the guy with 1 big blind or whatever finishes 2nd easy peasy and the worst player wins.

    Still it was fun sweating even though the guys on ESPN were dicks. Druff has done a lot to help the poker community, not sure what those assholes have ever done for anyone.

  19. #399
    Gold anonamoose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidewinder View Post
    Not sure why everyone is congratulating you
    I almost neg'd you for this, but the rest of the post made it somewhat ok.

    Still this is an absolutely retarded statement.

  20. #400
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    I have watched part of the live broadcast. Still have a lot to go.

    Some of the problem seemed to be the poor resolution/camera angles that caused the announcers to get confused about chip stack sizes.

    For example, David Baker commented that I should have bet the turn and folded to a raise with 22 on the 9948 board. Normally that's great advice, and normally that's what I'm doing. However, I noticed that Moore was so short that a check-raise would effectively put him all-in, and I thought that he just called the flop with the intention to check-raise the turn and get all the chips in. So there was no way to let go if Moore check-raised the turn -- I would have had call him all-in, and I have seen countless times where very short players just ship it all in with overcards in a spot like this, so there is no way I can just let the hand go and assume I'm ahead. In fact, I think there's still a possibility Moore would have done that, or perhaps even called the turn and then fired the river when he hit. I might have also won by betting the turn. I'll never know.

    After thinking about it, I have come to believe that I probably did make a mistake and should have bet the turn, BUT with the intention of calling his all-in check-raise, not folding as Baker suggested. If he weren't desperately short, then a fold would be obvious.

    I think Baker just couldn't see how short Moore really was, since the resolution isn't good enough to count chips that well (or perhaps he wasn't paying attention).

    Baker also criticized me in the AK/AQ hand with Moore for only calling the flop raise (out of position on an A9x board), and then check-raising the turn. Baker said he would have three bet the flop and kept betting, fearing a turn check-behind. The other announcer agreed with my play, saying that Moore wasn't going to raise that flop without an ace. I thought exactly that -- almost zero chance Moore was bluffing there, so might as well trap him on the turn for one extra small bet. Surprised Baker advocated fast-playing it, perhaps thinking more of cash play where people will more often raise the A-high flop with worse than top pair.

    Anyway, the criticism of various plays I made wasn't a big deal. They're in the booth to commentate, and even if they are overly critical of my play (and, in my opinion, in some cases wrong), that's their right as commentators. However, it was the more personal remarks -- the ones about me "Hollywooding", stalling, getting "lucky" (while not saying the same when I'm on the other end of bad beats), and especially that comment about wanting to see me tilt -- it was clear that this was anything but impartial. This lack of impartiality bled into every aspect of Baker's commentating, where it pretty much became an opportunity to nitpick everything I did. As is the case when you nitpick against someone you dislike, sometimes you'll bring up good points that are true, sometimes you'll bring up marginal points that are iffy, and other times you'll just be full of shit and really reaching. Baker's commentating about me was pretty much all of the above.

    The only reason I care at all about this is because a lot of friends and family members were watching this and thinking "WTF?" Fortunately Baker was transparent as Saran Wrap, so people saw right through what he was doing, but when you have a lot of non-poker friends/family watching something like this and hearing mostly negative things about both me and my play, it's frustrating.

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