Spin and Go/ Jackpot tables......Beating the stats

[nutty007]

I know these were talked about on radio last week but i thought i would add some additional details

I have recently discovered Jackpot tables at Full Tilt and Spin and Go's at Pokerstars. For those who dont know these are 3 seated sit and gos where you star with 500 chips and winner takes all. Prizes are typically from x2 your buy in up to 1000/2000 times your buy in.

These games are addictive as hell and so far i am beating the odds. Have played approximately 1200 games across both sites and managed to get a $10 stake $20000 table on Full Tilt once and a $15 stake $15000 table on Pokerstars once.

Pokerstars is definately more hardcore though.

On Full Tilt the players can deal at anytime and subsequetly on Full Tilt we split $6000 each and played for the remaining 2k.

With Pokerstar and the 15k table there was no option to deal and i evidently crashed in third so only received $1500

Anyway the point is these are just so compelling to play. I love the gamble aspect as you watch the amounts spin at the beginning as you hope for the higher payouts when you know in reality you are normally just getting x2.

An excellent format to satisfy the cross poker/gambling appetite.

[JUSTIFIEDhomicide]

Sounds like fun. So do you keep winning tickets into higher buyins, or the option to just take the x2?


I wish America wasn't so fucking lame. Our option for degeneracy is to bet reality tv shows on bovada

[nutty007]

Sounds like fun. So do you keep winning tickets into higher buyins, or the option to just take the x2?


I wish America wasn't so fucking lame. Our option for degeneracy is to bet reality tv shows on bovada

Not quite: you pay an amount to sit at the table ( lets say $10 ) and 3 people will be sat so the total prize pool is $ 30 less rake. Then a roulette chip will spin a random amount based on a multiplier of the stake. Typically this will be $20 ( so in effect $10 less than the prize pool , but 1 in every 20000 spins will be the highest amount for this stake which is $ 20000. There will also be various amounts inbetween based on multipliers.

I think you would hit the lowest spin amount about 76000 times in every 100000

I have been fortunate to have 2 of the highest spins in about 1200 games whereas statistically i should have played about 40000 games to achieve this.

[JUSTIFIEDhomicide]

Sounds like fun. So do you keep winning tickets into higher buyins, or the option to just take the x2?


I wish America wasn't so fucking lame. Our option for degeneracy is to bet reality tv shows on bovada

Not quite: you pay an amount to sit at the table ( lets say $10 ) and 3 people will be sat so the total prize pool is $ 30 less rake. Then a roulette chip will spin a random amount based on a multiplier of the stake. Typically this will be $20 ( so in effect $10 less than the prize pool , but 1 in every 20000 spins will be the highest amount for this stake which is $ 20000. There will also be various amounts inbetween based on multipliers.

I think you would hit the lowest spin amount about 76000 times in every 100000

I have been fortunate to have 2 of the highest spins in about 1200 games whereas statistically i should have played about 40000 games to achieve this.

Gotcha Gotcha. Do they have tons of denominations? x10? x20? etc? Or is it a ton of x2's and one 20k

[nutty007]

Yes they have lots , Pokerstars examples below

$7 $15 $30

$7,000* $15,000* $30,000* 5 of 100,000
$1,400* $3,000* $6,000* 10 of 100,000
$700* $1,500* $3,000* 15 of 100,000
$175 $375 $750 80 of 100,000
$70 $150 $300 1,000 of 100,000
$42 $90 $180 8,000 of 100,000
$28 $60 $120 18,010 of 100,000
$14 $30 $60 72,880 of 100,000
4% of the prize pool goes to rake

[tyde]

Not quite: you pay an amount to sit at the table ( lets say $10 ) and 3 people will be sat so the total prize pool is $ 30 less rake. Then a roulette chip will spin a random amount based on a multiplier of the stake. Typically this will be $20 ( so in effect $10 less than the prize pool , but 1 in every 20000 spins will be the highest amount for this stake which is $ 20000. There will also be various amounts inbetween based on multipliers.

I think you would hit the lowest spin amount about 76000 times in every 100000

I have been fortunate to have 2 of the highest spins in about 1200 games whereas statistically i should have played about 40000 games to achieve this.

Gotcha Gotcha. Do they have tons of denominations? x10? x20? etc? Or is it a ton of x2's and one 20k

Weiss..

the maximum prize is based on your buy in, and the spin before the game starts

if you buy in for 1 dollar....max would be 1200

3 dollars up to 3600

and so on

it's kinda cool, and yes very addictive

[JUSTIFIEDhomicide]

Yes they have lots , Pokerstars examples below

$7 $15 $30

$7,000* $15,000* $30,000* 5 of 100,000
$1,400* $3,000* $6,000* 10 of 100,000
$700* $1,500* $3,000* 15 of 100,000
$175 $375 $750 80 of 100,000
$70 $150 $300 1,000 of 100,000
$42 $90 $180 8,000 of 100,000
$28 $60 $120 18,010 of 100,000
$14 $30 $60 72,880 of 100,000
4% of the prize pool goes to rake

So winner take all, it's basically 1/3 juice? Also including the fact you might take that 30$ and turn it into 30k

[nutty007]

Well the rake is always 4% of the buy in. The gamble is the fact that the majority of the times one third of the prizepool has dissapeared. Obviously this is used to supplement the higher payouts.

Pokerstars is far more brutal as you cant deal so when i got on the 15k table it was in effect 15k to the winner,however, for the top 4 spins the 2nd and thirde places get 10% of the first prize.

When i came third on the 15k table i subsequently received a 1.5k payout.

And yes it was a horrible deal when my pocket jacks lost to AQ in this instance.

[JUSTIFIEDhomicide]

God I miss stars

[tyde]

God I miss stars

it's a lot tougher Weiss

I've had a couple of smallish MTT wins, but the games are noticeably more difficult

win or lose, Sundays on Stars still own though

[simpdog]

Bad for grinders.

Good for gamblers/playing for fun

[SrslySirius]

A lot of people are super pissed off about these games because they drive variance through the roof and have diverted action away from other formats.

Muffin Man on 2+2 ran some pretty interesting simulations on the PokerStars Spin 'n Gos. Each graph below uses a sample size of 100,000 games based on a 5% ROI:



The red line is EV. Kinda brutal.

[BeerAndPoker]

Basically just watch the first 30 seconds of this video and you see the slot spin,etc... Guy hits a jackpot here.



Games are definitely for degening it up and variance is horrible for regs due to too many spins at 2x. If regs can handle it over a huge sample of games they will probably level out or hit a jackpot but again you have to be winning a nice percentage of games at all spin amounts but even more so the higher ones like 6x+.

[SrslySirius]

Actually, I think I heard that Stars is increasing the jackpot multipliers, in which case the variance will be even crazier.

EDIT: Yeah, they've been tripled. The above graphs apply to the 1000x jackpots.

[BeerAndPoker]

Actually, I think I heard that Stars is increasing the jackpot multipliers, in which case the variance will be even crazier.

That is correct they are doing that and of course like everything else they are raising the rake on these as well.

Stars has hyper turbo satellites for tons of events and they are raising the rake like 40-45% on those games which is one of the worst rake hikes of all the ones they are going to make.

[sonatine]

if Gambling Anonymous was publicly traded, id mortgage the house and rob liquor stores to stack up right now.

[Dan Druff]

Bad for grinders.

Good for gamblers/playing for fun

Winner

This is actually bad if you make your living playing poker, as it inserts far more luck and variance in poker, and in fact makes it very difficult to win long term unless you get very lucky. It causes a situation where a lucky few win a whole lot, and everyone else loses -- like a lottery.

Anyone who plays poker seriously should hate this.

[Dan Druff]

Some also say, "Well, nobody is forcing you to play these Spin N Go tables, so if you don't like them, stay away."

That's true, but now more fish are playing those tables and are no longer on the skill-based tables, so that hurts the grinders even if they stay away from these new games.

[JUSTIFIEDhomicide]

Some also say, "Well, nobody is forcing you to play these Spin N Go tables, so if you don't like them, stay away."

That's true, but now more fish are playing those tables and are no longer on the skill-based tables, so that hurts the grinders even if they stay away from these new games.

Which is not the site's problem at all. Their job is to make these types of games where they make a ton of money from the craze, and have a team f=of people developing the next craze and so on. Sites really don't care much about regs. As they really shouldn't beyond making sure they have a stellar fpp program. The job of the site is to make money. They are killen it with these ideas.

[BeerAndPoker]

When a player starts up tables he or she, (no really I mean just he) is generating a lot of rake for the site. Sure regs cashout but creating games and keeping them going is huge in online poker. A lot of these regs also do go to war with one another at least in 6 max online cash so if they are 10 tabling against one another with 4 regs in each game then these players are making the site money they wouldn't make if all these regs left.

Now their are some shitty things regs do to the poker economy but you do need some in poker to keep games created and for them rail birds to dream of playing nosebleeds one day because they see how profitable some players have become. Fish like to chase a dream and if they didn't feel it was possible to win in poker long term (which it may not be for them but they see a chance because others have won) then they might wake up and not play as much.