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Thread: Live poker seat-moving controversy

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Live poker seat-moving controversy

    Tell me who you think is right here.

    It's a cash game at Commerce Casino. We will call them "John" and "Chris".

    John has at the table longer than Chris.

    As is common at most card rooms, the rules at Commerce state that the player who has been at the table longer has first choice in seat moves, and in fact can overrule other players who start to move to a seat and say "Actually, I'll take that seat".

    Chris wanted to move to a seat immediately to John's left. He threw a dollar chip to "lock up" that seat, but did not move anything over there because he was playing to his blind, which would take another 5 minutes.

    Just as Chris stood up and was getting ready to move his chips over to the new seat, John piped up and said, "Are you taking that seat? Actually, I want it."

    Chris felt he had the right to the seat because John hadn't said anything about it for 5 minutes. He asked, "Why didn't you say anything when I threw my dollar chip over there 5 minutes ago?"

    John replied, "I didn't see you throw it. I didn't know you were moving here until now. Had I known, I would have said something when you did."

    There is little question that, by Commerce rules, John has the right to the seat. A player is not considered "in" his new seat until he actually sits there and nobody objects.

    Knowing he would lose a challenge to the floorman, Chris gave up and stayed where he was. He made several angry and nasty comments to and about John, regarding the situation, feeling a breach of etiquette had occurred.

    Do you feel that this was a breach of etiquette, or was John in the right here? If you were John, would you have let Chris take the seat?

    One note before you decide: The act of "overrulling" seats based on seniority at the table is very standard and common at Commerce, so that's not what this was about. Had John immediately said to Chris, "No, actually I want that seat", there would have been no issue. The question is whether John committed an etiquette breach by saying it 5 minutes later, because he apparently hadn't seen that Chris was going to move until Chris stood up to do so.

     
    Comments
      
      bukowski72: John did nothing wrong. It didn't matter if it was 20mins. When someone goes to take that seat the person with the senority or a seat move button can claim that seat.
      
      Jayjami: Breach of etiquette at Commerce, shocking!

  2. #2
    One Percenter Pooh's Avatar
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    John had first right of refusal and he used it. End of story. Doesn't matter if the guy was walking over to take his new seat imo.

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    Presuming both parties are being honest in that story then it's just an unfortunate misunderstanding and John gets to take up the seat he's entitled to.

    It's only that many poker players are socially retarded that this escalated to anything more than a nod and a shrug.

    Not much else to be said really.
    http://pnimg.net/w/articles-attachments/1/4c2/74d75c36d2.jpg

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    Gold abrown83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post

    As is common at most card rooms, the rules at Commerce state that the player who has been at the table longer has first choice in seat moves, and in fact can overrule other players who start to move to a seat and say "Actually, I'll take that seat".
    Almost every casino I have played in has seat move tokens (usually three of them).

    First come, first served.

    I always request one as soon as I sit down, not because I want to move but because I don't want to give up the ability to move if desired.

    Seems like if Commerce used this method, then this would have been a non-issue.

    With tokens you get first right of refusal, but if you refuse then player 2 wants to move, you can't change your mind based on the player that wants to move. Which would be a lot more likely to happen in limit when you don't want a certain player moving to your left.

     
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      Prodigal son: Thinking this while reading Druff's post

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    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    Rofl, fuck Chris. He just wanted position on John, and now that he cant have it, hes going to spew bile.

    1) LOL Commerce.

    2) Seriously tho fuck a Chris.

     
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      Hockey Guy: Pretty much exactly this.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

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    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by abrown83 View Post
    Seems like if Commerce used this method, then this would have been a non-issue.

    Just to be clear, there is no such thing as a 'non-issue' at Commerce.

     
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      ThreeBet: So true
      
      Jayjami: You got that right.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

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    Serial Blogger BeerAndPoker's Avatar
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    You never have this problem in online poker.

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    Platinum Muck Ficon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeerAndPoker View Post
    You never have this problem in online poker.
    Yeah, that's because Chris doesn't play online.
    Quote Originally Posted by Baron Von Strucker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kmksmkn View Post
    Does anybody know if u can get a work visa for playing online poker in the UK
    I have had Issues with credit cards in Europe
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    you're more consumed with accumulating wealth than achieving spiritual enlightenment
    Quote Originally Posted by tgull View Post
    Getting a little surf and turf tonight. In my world that is Sea Bass with a nice lobster tail on the side. And grilled asparagus. It's nice having money.

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    As you might have guessed, I was involved in the above-mentioned controversy.

    I'm glad to tell you guys that I was "John" in the above story, meaning that everyone posting here so far agrees with me.

    Now you might be wondering who "Chris" was.

    I'll give you a hint: It's a mostly-limit-holdem player who is known not to like me, and whose name I have brought up here before regarding the fact that he dislikes me.

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    Diamond shortbuspoker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    As you might have guessed, I was involved in the above-mentioned controversy.

    I'm glad to tell you guys that I was "John" in the above story, meaning that everyone posting here so far agrees with me.

    Now you might be wondering who "Chris" was.

    I'll give you a hint: It's a mostly-limit-holdem player who is known not to like me, and whose name I have brought up here before regarding the fact that he dislikes me.
    Yebsite?


     
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      Crowe Diddly: lol

  11. #11
    One Percenter Pooh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    As you might have guessed, I was involved in the above-mentioned controversy.

    I'm glad to tell you guys that I was "John" in the above story, meaning that everyone posting here so far agrees with me.

    Now you might be wondering who "Chris" was.

    I'll give you a hint: It's a mostly-limit-holdem player who is known not to like me, and whose name I have brought up here before regarding the fact that he dislikes me.
    Douchebag Baker

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    Serial Blogger BeerAndPoker's Avatar
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    David ODB Baker?

    How recent was this?

  13. #13
    Diamond mulva's Avatar
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    get rid of that stupid, large, signature pic, lord of flies.

     
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      sonatine: had to be said
      
      rickastley: this

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Yup.

    David Baker. Happened yesterday.

    I guess my hint made it way too easy.

    I should also add that he also acted like a passive-aggressive douchebag to me for the remainder of the time, such as check-raising me by laying out 1 or 2 chips at a time in a long row.

    Prior to this incident, we had basically been ignoring each other at the table, but I guess I incurred his wrath by the seat thing.

    I did see the $1 chip "locking" the seat, but that means nothing until the person actually moves, and I thought it had been put down by the floorman, who came by and said "Lock this seat for a new player coming". Apparently the floorman said that and David must have thrown the chip over when I was either gone from the table or looking the other way. I believe that he legitimately thought I just slow-rolled him on the seat move, but when I explained it, he still felt he had the right to move there and that I had committed a huge dick move by not letting him.

    When I told him I was still taking the seat, he actually said, "Then give me my dollar back", as if I was going to move there and take his dollar.


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    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post


    I should also add that he also acted like a passive-aggressive douchebag to me for the remainder of the time, such as check-raising me by laying out 1 or 2 chips at a time in a long row.


    sides.


    commerce
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

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    Diamond Hockey Guy's Avatar
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    How were the rest of the players at the table skill wise?

    He probably just wanted position on the other good player at the table for control. Fuck him.
    (•_•) ..
    ∫\ \___( •_•)
    _∫∫ _∫∫ɯ \ \

    Quote Originally Posted by Hockey Guy
    I'd say good luck in the freeroll but I'm pretty sure you'll go on a bender to self-sabotage yourself & miss it completely or use it as the excuse of why you didn't cash.

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hockey Guy View Post
    How were the rest of the players at the table skill wise?

    He probably just wanted position on the other good player at the table for control. Fuck him.
    The table was a mixture of good regulars and a few donks.

    He did want that seat because I had position on two fish at the time, and therefore I was probably opening/3-betting more pre-flop than the other LHE regulars there at the time.

    I don't blame him for wanting that seat (I would, too, if the situation were reversed), but I wouldn't have gone into asshole mode if he had been at the table longer and told me he was taking it instead. This has happened literally hundreds of times to me at Commerce, and I've never said a cross word about it, understanding that's the rules. I can't see why 5 minutes passing changed that in his mind, especially since he hadn't lifted a finger to move anything yet aside from throw a $1 chip over there.

     
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      Hockey Guy: You did nothing wrong dude.

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    Platinum Lord of the Fraud's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mulva View Post
    get rid of that stupid, large, signature pic, lord of flies.


    Get fucked, I like it.


    But if the size bothers people then we can compromise if someone can knock me up a smaller version.

     
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      rickastley: mulva speaks the truth
    http://pnimg.net/w/articles-attachments/1/4c2/74d75c36d2.jpg

  19. #19
    *giggling*
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    How can anyone not like druff?

     
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      GrenadaRoger: step 1 - get to know him

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    Platinum JUSTIFIEDhomicide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Tell me who you think is right here.

    It's a cash game at Commerce Casino. We will call them "John" and "Chris".

    John has at the table longer than Chris.

    As is common at most card rooms, the rules at Commerce state that the player who has been at the table longer has first choice in seat moves, and in fact can overrule other players who start to move to a seat and say "Actually, I'll take that seat".

    Chris wanted to move to a seat immediately to John's left. He threw a dollar chip to "lock up" that seat, but did not move anything over there because he was playing to his blind, which would take another 5 minutes.

    Just as Chris stood up and was getting ready to move his chips over to the new seat, John piped up and said, "Are you taking that seat? Actually, I want it."

    Chris felt he had the right to the seat because John hadn't said anything about it for 5 minutes. He asked, "Why didn't you say anything when I threw my dollar chip over there 5 minutes ago?"

    John replied, "I didn't see you throw it. I didn't know you were moving here until now. Had I known, I would have said something when you did."

    There is little question that, by Commerce rules, John has the right to the seat. A player is not considered "in" his new seat until he actually sits there and nobody objects.

    Knowing he would lose a challenge to the floorman, Chris gave up and stayed where he was. He made several angry and nasty comments to and about John, regarding the situation, feeling a breach of etiquette had occurred.

    Do you feel that this was a breach of etiquette, or was John in the right here? If you were John, would you have let Chris take the seat?

    One note before you decide: The act of "overrulling" seats based on seniority at the table is very standard and common at Commerce, so that's not what this was about. Had John immediately said to Chris, "No, actually I want that seat", there would have been no issue. The question is whether John committed an etiquette breach by saying it 5 minutes later, because he apparently hadn't seen that Chris was going to move until Chris stood up to do so.


    In Atlantic City seniority doesn't matter. It's whoever has the seat move chip first, second, third etc. When you sit down at a table you can ask for a seat move chip. Usually clear. Whoever has that. If not, it's anyones seat
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