Russian player discovers bug in Pokerstars, saves them up to $100k per year, unhappy with $215 reward

[Dan Druff]

This is a tough one to decide whether Pokerstars is right or wrong.

The background:

Russian player "Belyakov" reported to Stars last month that their 5c/10c Zoom Omaha Hi-Lo tables were paying out too many VPPs. The software was awarding players 8.5 VPPs for every dollar raked, instead of 7.

He calculated that this was allowing players in the game to earn $7000-$8000 in extra rakeback per month, meaning nearly $100k per year.

On March 22, he says he contacted Pokerstars about this and told them what he found.

On March 24, he claims they eliminated the bug, but then told him that it never existed in the first place!

Belyakov was insulted by this, as he felt they were being dishonest and ungrateful after he brought a bug to their attention that was costing them money, which was subsequently fixed.

He then posted the following to 2+2, basically explaining all of the above:

Hello poker community! My name is Alexander. I from Russia.
About a week ago I found an important mistake on Pokerstars. About what I opened a subject on one of the Russian poker forums: http://forum.gipsyteam.ru/index.php?...c=85811&st=140

Mistakes I was that at game in zoom-poker tables NL 0.05-0.1$ Omaha hi-low the software mistakenly gave to players of 8,5 VPP points for each dollar rake instead of 7 VPP.

I consider that it is wrong to receive it raised rakeback. Also consider incorrect it to use and to receive from it excess benefit.

I carried out a lot of work according to the game analysis to this type of poker. This mistake led to increase rakeback on the average for 8-9%. By my results because of this mistake the company totally overpaid superfluous rakeback of 7000-8000 dollars USA every month. In case of your interest I am ready to provide all calculations proving this number.

I began correspondence with the Russian technical support. In the evening on March 22 I provided all information with all calculations of the Russian technical support on the postal address of support@pokerstars .eu. For me asked to wait and by results of check promised to contact me.

In the afternoon on March 24 after the next updating of the software I noticed that the error is eliminated. The program began to add points correctly.
And in the same day from the Russian technical support I received the letter in which they didn't recognize by me the found mistake. Representatives of the company claim that no mistake existed and the program always considered points correctly.

It is a lie. Many Russian players from the moment of publication of my mistake on the Internet until its correction could be convinced of it personally. All confirmed that the found mistake takes place to be.

Now for me it is very offensive and I am disappointed that did huge work, provided the company information on this mistake. The company corrected this error, ceased to sustain excess financial losses. And to me impudently say lies that no mistake existed and everything worked correctly.

I ask you to examine and check this fact. Thanks!

A Pokerstars rep then responded to him, admitting that indeed there was a bug:

Hi Alexander,
There was indeed an error in VPP awarding at our $0.05/$0.10 NL Omaha Hi/Lo pool for a period of months, up until quite recently. The cause was a manual configuration error in our backend systems.

I got a secondhand report from another player about your forum thread, which I could not read myself as I do not communicate in Russian. I validated that an error was taking place and ensured that it was fixed immediately.

Our support representatives appear not to have been aware of this action and evaluated the situation after the fix was deployed. As they didn't see a current error, you got a response that reflected that.

I appreciate you bringing this error to our attention. If you would PM me your userid, I will ensure that you get a token of our appreciation.

He claims that the following was sent to him in e-mail by Steve:

I again appreciate that you have brought this error to our attention. I have confirmed that the rate of cost of this error was less than half of $100,000 per year, but it was a significant amount of money and we are happy to have fixed it.
.
.
We do not offer cash rewards for those who provide such information. A typical reward would be perhaps a tournament entry, in this case to the Sunday Million as it was a significant error, but as you do not wish a tournament buy-in perhaps you would be interested in an item from our VIP Store instead?

A tournament ticket in the Sunday Million is worth $215.

Belyakov claims that he decided he didn't want that, and instead asked for an item from the VIP Store, as offered by Steve. He asked for the Smartphone HTC ONE, which was 47000 FPPs in the store (approximately $750 value). He says that Pokerstars refused this.

As a final statement, Belyakov said to 2+2:

As a result I refused an award in general. Better I will remain with anything, than I will receive a tip. Such award is similar to the bone, thrown to a stray dog.

I want that all poker community knew that to cooperate with Pokerstars isn't present any sense. Any advantage and the good done for this company, will be or isn't noticed, or is rewarded minimum.

I am disappointed in Pokerstars and I regret that told them about this mistake.

[Dan Druff]

Anyway, while I think this Russian was being a bit presumptuous that he's automatically due a reward, I do think that Stars could have just given him the damn $750 phone and been done with it. He really did save them several thousand per month, and did it at the expense of himself and everyone receiving the extra points in the game, so they could have rewarded him with something a little better than $215.

They weren't required to do anything for him, but I agree they are being a bit stingy here. In fact, they should encourage this bug-finding, rather than make it look like it's not worth the player's while to report.

[shortbuspoker]

They should give him something of substance and be glad that he reported it rather finding some crazy computer wizard to write a bot program that could grind low stakes for massive FPP rewards.

[BCR]

Seems like he could have informed them that he has found a bug, approximate what it's costing them, and then strike a deal before he reveals what the bug is. This is a company that just ate a $250k overlay in one tournament this week. I think if he got pokerstars via email saying they would compensate him 25% of what they save over the next 3 months(given it already had been messed up for 3 months) it would have been fair and netted him like 3-4k if they were losing like 12.5k per quarter by their math. They would probably try and figure it out themselves, but if they didn't fix it, he could continue to correspond and tell them they still hadn't found it. I'm never straight telling them first and hoping they are generous. Hell, angle for a job at minimum to get out of Russia. I think they'd be open to hiring someone that diligent. A guy paying that close of attention to the details is someone I'd want to hire.

[Deal]

Druff, you are over-estimating just how much this 'bug' was costing Stars. The fact is that level of play is not a beatable level based on the rake. Also, most rakeback eventually gets played back and is not withdrawn. Some players deposit $100 and end up buying a $7 widget that Stars paid $3 for with their earned points and feel great about the free thingamajig they 'won' from Stars. They then deposit again. Had they not been able to order the free widget perhaps they would not deposit again. Stars tries to make the customer go broke at a specific rate allowing them to get enough entertainment value to encourage them to deposit again.

Stars is only giving FPP's because they believe they benefit from doing it. Same with airmiles, and all other point programs. They don't do it so the customers benefit. They do it because they benefit. Who knows, they may crunch the numbers and find giving out more FPP's ended up earning them more deposits.

Regardless, the amount of real dollars this guy saved Stars is way less than determining the value of the extra FPP's generated.

[Dan Druff]

Druff, you are over-estimating just how much this 'bug' was costing Stars. The fact is that level of play is not a beatable level based on the rake. Also, most rakeback eventually gets played back and is not withdrawn. Some players deposit $100 and end up buying a $7 widget that Stars paid $3 for with their earned points and feel great about the free thingamajig they 'won' from Stars. They then deposit again. Had they not been able to order the free widget perhaps they would not deposit again. Stars tries to make the customer go broke at a specific rate allowing them to get enough entertainment value to encourage them to deposit again.

Stars is only giving FPP's because they believe they benefit from doing it. Same with airmiles, and all other point programs. They don't do it so the customers benefit. They do it because they benefit. Who knows, they may crunch the numbers and find giving out more FPP's ended up earning them more deposits.

Regardless, the amount of real dollars this guy saved Stars is way less than determining the value of the extra FPP's generated.

I agree that the FPPs are not being done as any favor to the player, but rather because Stars benefits.

But they benefit because it makes players happy, much like all rewards programs of other businesses.

Stars has admitted it was a mistake, so there is no reason to debate whether this was an intentional change. They determined that 7 FPP per dollar was the optimal rate, and accidentally paid out 8.5.

The bottom line is that this was a big PR blunder on Stars' part. After offering the guy something from the VIP store, they should have just honored his request provided it stayed under $1000. Instead they come off looking cheap and ungrateful.

If the guy found it within a few days of the bug's existence, Stars could have used the argument of, "We would have audited and caught this within a few weeks anyway."

The fact that it had occurred for months shows that it probably would have gone on for a long time and cost Stars a lot of needless money.

[Dan Druff]

Seems like he could have informed them that he has found a bug, approximate what it's costing them, and then strike a deal before he reveals what the bug is. This is a company that just ate a $250k overlay in one tournament this week. I think if he got pokerstars via email saying they would compensate him 25% of what they save over the next 3 months(given it already had been messed up for 3 months) it would have been fair and netted him like 3-4k if they were losing like 12.5k per quarter by their math. They would probably try and figure it out themselves, but if they didn't fix it, he could continue to correspond and tell them they still hadn't found it. I'm never straight telling them first and hoping they are generous. Hell, angle for a job at minimum to get out of Russia. I think they'd be open to hiring someone that diligent. A guy paying that close of attention to the details is someone I'd want to hire.

I agree, and that was also my first thought.

The guy took a weird approach by giving them free info, and then demanding payment after-the-fact.

[BeerAndPoker]

Just a observation but if this particular player was playing much higher stakes and this software bug existed which he decided to report it I wonder if Pokerstars offers him the same thing or something better then the $215 Sunday Million ticket?

As for the situation I think if they are going to tell the guy to pick something out of the store and he chooses a $700 phone for discovering something that will save Pokerstars six figures a year I think they should just give him the phone.

It's not like he was trying to go nuts asking for an Aston Martin that I know they used to have and still might in that VPP store.

Unfortunately, for this guy if he's a 5c/10c player as low balled of a reward that he may have felt he was offered that is over 20 buyins in the game he's regularly playing (if 5c/10c are is standard stakes) so he probably would have been best to just accept the ticket and still tell his story to the public afterward how he felt Pokerstars was cheap.