Bitcoins are officially donkdown

[sonatine]

Mumbles I know exactly which nerve I hit. I was being rhetorical. You know what? I don't care. You shouldn't either. Lace on some apathy like a big boy.

You want to chat about Bitcoin or got something interesting, I am in.

You got other problems? Go ahead and kill the thread. Chill. I am not your problem here.

lol wait you actually read a word of his response?


get your head in the game man.

[Sanlmar]

Mumbles I know exactly which nerve I hit. I was being rhetorical. You know what? I don't care. You shouldn't either. Lace on some apathy like a big boy.

You want to chat about Bitcoin or got something interesting, I am in.

You got other problems? Go ahead and kill the thread. Chill. I am not your problem here.

lol wait you actually read a word of his response?


get your head in the game man.

Thanks coach.

I shot my wad today and us old guys have a refractory period.

Gonna sit on the bench for a couple of days and think about what I have done

[MumblesBadly]

You neg replied my opinion on some third rate forum because I wasn't properly credentialed.

Now you state my opinion "doesn't matter to the people who consider them so" and instruct me "this is the nature of markets"

I should just let that sit and push send. Where logic meets misfortune... when it starts getting personal and you recognize you've already won. But it's fucking Bitcoin. What nerve have we hit?

Look. Bitcoin is not used as a currency for legal commerce except in a few token instances. It has a niche in illegal commerce. Thank goodness cause it allows me to have some fun.

However, [/Bit is not a currency used for legal exchange by anyone as a practical matter.

It does have a value. For now.

You invoke the markets. The market has fought and Bitcoin has a value - not as a currency with utility. It's just a thing. I live the markets every day. In my opinion (can I cease qualifying now? You get how this works yet?) what I see is a collectible not a currency. Yes there is a market. Hummels had a market too. I guess there still is one. Markets are just opinions backed by money.

I shit myself when I saw Sonatine's post regarding the reward. In that Bitcoin is not a measure of value the reward was expressed in fiat dollars. C'mon, that's funny and summarizes anecdotally my point.

I mumbled my "collectible not currency" thought and came up with this remedial lesson from Fortune magazine.

I just have two other thoughts that were stimulated by the article.

It is volatile and lacks security. The only perfect security is physical security. I am not credentialed in IT Security dude. Ask Sonatine if this theory is true in his world. Just my opinion.

It's utility presently relies on exchanges. They can be shut down in an effort to curb illegal activity. The Internet is remarkable but exchanges require trust to work. They need to operate in the open for them to work.

These two ideas make wealth management or long term investing in Bitcoin ludicrous.

Do I hate on Bitcoin? No way. It's fascinating. Cool tech, fraud and fantastic brilliant characters. even the ones that aren't in prison. Yet.

I have seen too much in my time. I know a bubble when I see one. They all have varying lifespans.

From 2013

Bitcoins Are Digital Collectibles, Not Real Money

...

Given all of the hair on the Bitcoin dog, what accounts for all of the interest in Bitcoins? Actually, we have seen this phenomenon before.

During the 1970s, as inflation rose and public anxiety rose with it, ads advocating “investment” in “collectibles” started to appear. Financial advisors

...

Bitcoins are nothing more than digital collectibles. They are bought by speculators to hedge against inflation. Stabilize the U.S. dollar and all interest in Bitcoins will vanish

You continue to present an argument based on the premise that the governments around the world will be sufficiently interested *and* competent in shutting down bitcoin exchanges. Given that the majority of bitcoin activity is *now* occurring in China, what makes you think that the CCP meets both of those qualifications?

Heck! Why even the first? I bring this up because the article from 2013 you referenced makes no mention of Chinese demand for bitcoin, which I believe that most folks who are following bitcoin developments would agree is driving most of the value in bitcoin today, but it speculation bt gambling Chinese, or wealth diversification (away from the economy and/or reach of the CCP). So, who among currently dominant bitcoin market participants give a fuck about the "[s]tability of the U.S. dollar" other than how it might impact triangle arbitrage trading between CNY/BTC/USD?

And while bitcoin is certainly a horrible tool for wealth management for most folks in Western economies, virtually none of us over here face the substantial political risk of wealth confiscation by the government that folks in countries like China face. You seem to keep forgetting this fact. Or dismissing it as not material. Despite the fact that since the year of the article you reference here a former Wall Street investment banking professional has set up a successful wealth expatriation business using bitcoin that targets Chinses nationals that has generated about $760 million of business. Which I referenced in a previous post.

http://pokerfraudalert.com/forum/showthread.php?4752-Bitcoins-are-officially-donkdown&p=532229&viewfull=1#post532229

So, am I saying that bitcoin is a good place to hold much wealth? Not if you live in the West, don't have a pressing need for doing business in illegal activities or with nationals in countries where currency exchange and capital movement are restricted by the government. But to assume that these demand factors won't fuel substantial bitcoin market values for some time to come is presumptuous for someone who looks at the issue substantially through the eyes of a mostly-legitimate Westerer. Which is why one based on questions of the stability of the USD are *currently* irrelevant.

But good try finding and posting a published article from the past that makes that argument. Should we expect you next to post/reference an article about why IBM stock is overvalued because its mainframe business has been eclipsed by mini- and personal computers?

[GringoStar]

Sanlmar...

Bitcoin is not fake money or a digital collectible. It is also slowly being adopted by many legitimate marketplaces and now has public ATMs in many major cities.

Crytocurrencies are not some dream of the future, they are already a real currency. Also, most USD nowadays are technically a type of crytocurrency, as they aren't even backed by cash and they are encrypted (and are insured by banks) which really gives the little numbers in your checking account any value.

Don't get left in the past.

[sonatine]

Sanlmar...

Bitcoin is not fake money or a digital collectible. It is also slowly being adopted by many legitimate marketplaces and now has public ATMs in many major cities.

Crytocurrencies are not some dream of the future, they are already a real currency. Also, most USD nowadays are technically a type of crytocurrency, as they aren't even backed by cash and they are encrypted (and are insured by banks) which really gives the little numbers in your checking account any value.

Don't get left in the past.

Its really not tho. The underpinning blockchain mechanics are raising eyebrows, but the myth of bitcoin gaining mainstream acceptance never lived up to its promise and its years old.

Dont know about getting left in the past or what the future may hold, but bitcoin remains a great way for drug dealers/cybercriminals to do business and for Chinese to ferret wealth off the mainland grid. Beyond that, its beanie babies time. Still.

[GringoStar]

Sanlmar...

Bitcoin is not fake money or a digital collectible. It is also slowly being adopted by many legitimate marketplaces and now has public ATMs in many major cities.

Crytocurrencies are not some dream of the future, they are already a real currency. Also, most USD nowadays are technically a type of crytocurrency, as they aren't even backed by cash and they are encrypted (and are insured by banks) which really gives the little numbers in your checking account any value.

Don't get left in the past.

Its really not tho. The underpinning blockchain mechanics are raising eyebrows, but the myth of bitcoin gaining mainstream acceptance never lived up to its promise and its years old.

Dont know about getting left in the past or what the future may hold, but bitcoin remains a great way for drug dealers/cybercriminals to do business and for Chinese to ferret wealth off the mainland grid. Beyond that, its beanie babies time. Still.

Wow, it sounds like you know what you're talking about. Underpinning blockchain mechanics?

I will start by saying that almost all experts agree that the underpinning mechanics of a blockchain holds water and is the most groundbreaking piece of technology since networked computers. Bitcoin, specifically, is one of the first and may not be the ultimate version, but it is still undefeated, as the only hacks associated with it have been on platforms managing BTC and not the chain itself.

As for mainstream acceptance, you again reveal that smug certainty seems to replace wisdom on this forum. Below is a short list of some of the companies who accept Bitcoin, who never accepted Beanie Babies. You may also want to hear from a little bank called Barclay's who seems to disagree with your brilliant analysis: https://www.barclayscorporate.com/co..._potential.pdf

WordPress.com – An online company that allows user to create free blogs
Overstock.com – A company that sells big ticket items at lower prices due to overstocking
Subway – Eat fresh
Namecheap – Domain name registrar
Bitcoin.Travel – a travel site that provides accommodation, apartments, attractions, bars, and beauty salons around the world
Pembury Tavern – A pub in London, England
Old Fitzroy – A pub in Sydney, Australia
The Pink Cow – A diner in Tokyo, Japan
Virgin Galactic – Richard Branson company that includes Virgin Mobile and Virgin Airline
The Pirate Bay – BitTorrent directories
Reddit – You can buy premium features there with bitcoins
Zynga – Mobile gaming
PayPal / Ebay – Credit card / payment processor / Auction
Tesla – The car company
OkCupid – Online dating site
4Chan.org – For premium services
EZTV – Torrents TV shows provider
Mega.co.nz – The new venture started by the former owner of MegaUpload Kim Dotcom
Lumfile – Free cloud base file server – pay for premium services
Etsy Vendors – 93 of them
PizzaForCoins.com – Domino’s Pizza signed up – pay for their pizza with bitcons
Tigerdirect – Major electronic online retailer
CheapAir.com – Travel booking site for airline tickets, car rentals, hotels
Expedia.com – Online travel booking agency
Zappos – Online retailer
Whole Foods – Organic food store (by purchasing gift card from Gyft)
Bitcoincoffee.com – Buy your favorite coffee online
Grass Hill Alpacas – A local farm in Haydenville, MA
Jeffersons Store – A street wear clothing store in Bergenfield, N.J
Helen’s Pizza – Jersey City, N.J., you can get a slice of pizza for 0.00339 bitcoin by pointing your phone at a sign next to the cash register
A Class Limousine – Pick you up and drop you off at Newark (N.J.) Airport
Fiverr.com – Get almost anything done for $5
Seoclerks.com – Get SEO work done on your site cheap
Namecheap – Cheap domain registration company
Sacramento Kings – Professional Basketball team out in Sacramental California (NBA)
Mint.com – Mint pulls all your financial accounts into one place. Set a budget, track your goals and do more
with your money, for free! (Source: mint.com)
TechCrunch.com – IT blog
Fancy.com – Discover amazing stuff, collect the things you love, buy it all in one place (Source: Fancy)
Bing by Microsoft – 2nd search engine to Google
Bloomberg.com – Online newspaper
Humblebundle.com – Indie game site
BigFishGames.com – Games for PC, Mac and Smartphones (iPhone, Android, Windows)
Suntimes.com – Chicago based online newspaper
San Jose Earthquakes – San Jose California Professional Soccer Team (MLS)
Square – Payment processor that help small businesses accept credit cards using iPhone, Android or iPad
Crowdtilt.com – The fastest and easiest way to pool funds with family and friends (Source: crowdtilt)
Lumfile – Server company that offers free cloud-based servers
Museum of the Coastal Bend – 2200 East Red River Street, Victoria, Texas 77901, USA
Home Depot – Office supplies store
Kmart – Retail products store
Sears – Clothing and household products, electronic store
Gap, GameStop and JC Penney – have to use eGifter.com
Etsy Vendors – Original art and Jewelry creations
Fight for the Future – Leading organization finding for Internet freedom
i-Pmart (ipmart.com.my) – A Malaysian online mobile phone and electronic parts retailer
curryupnow.com – A total of 12 restaurants on the list of restaurants accept bitcoins in San Francisco Bay Area
Dish Network – An American direct-broadcast satellite service provider
Apple’s App Store – Buy music and any app on the Apple AppStore with bitcoins
The Libertarian Party – United States political party
Yacht-base.com – Croatian yacht charter company
Euro Pacific – A major precious metal dealer
CEX – The trade-in chain has a shop in Glasgow, Scotland that accepts bitcoin
Straub Auto Repairs – 477 Warburton Ave, Hastings-on-Hudson, NY 10706 – (914) 478-1177
PSP Mollie – Dutch Payment Service
Intuit – an American software company that develops financial and tax preparation software and related services for small businesses, accountants and individuals.
Newegg.com – Online electronics retailer now uses bitpay to accept bitcoin as payment
ShopJoy – An Australian online retailer that sells novelty and unique gifts
Wikipedia – The Free Encyclopedia with 4 570 000+ article
Lv.net – Las Vegas high speed internet services
ExpressVPN.com – High speed, ultra secure VPN network
Grooveshark – Online music streaming service based in the United States
Dell – American privately owned multinational computer technology company
Braintree – Well known payments processor
MIT Coop Store – Massachusetts Institute of Technology student bookstore
SimplePay – Nigeria’s most popular web and mobile-based wallet service
SFU bookstore – Simon Fraser University in Vancouver, Canada
State Republican Party – First State Republican Party to accept bitcoin donations (http://www.lagop.com/bitcoin-donate)
mspinc.com – Respiratory medical equipment supplies store
1-800-FLOWERS.COM – United States based online floral and gift retailer and distributor
Shopify.com – An online store that allows anyone to sell their products
Famsa – Mexico’s biggest retailer
Naughty America – Adult entertainment provider
Mexico’s Universidad de las Américas Puebla – A major university in Mexico
LOT Polish Airlines – A worldwide airline based in Poland
MovieTickets.com – Online movie ticket exchange/retailer
Dream Lover – Online relationship service
Lionsgate Films – The production studio behind titles such as The Hunger Games and The Day After Tomorrow
Rakutan – A Japanese e-commerce giant
Badoo – Online dating network
RE/MAX London – UK-based franchisee of the global real estate network
T-Mobile Poland – T-Mobile’s Poland-based mobile phone top-up company
Stripe – San Francisco-based payments company
WebJet – Online travel agency
Microsoft – Software company
Braintree – Research firm
Green Man Gaming – Popular digital game reseller
Save the Children – Global charity organization
NCR Silver – Point of sales systems
One Shot Hotels – Spanish hotel chain
Coupa Café in Palo Alto
Foodler – North American restaurant delivery company
Amagi Metals – Precious metal furnisher

[sonatine]

Yes Im sure literally dozens of dollars a year pass through the bitcoin wallet of those companies.


Thanks for sorting that out for us, you're definitely not yet another random try-hard farming for attention in this thread, which we have certainly never seen before.

[GringoStar]

Yes Im sure literally dozens of dollars a year pass through the bitcoin wallet of those companies.


Thanks for sorting that out for us, you're definitely not yet another random try-hard farming for attention in this thread, which we have certainly never seen before.

Wow man, you are a textbook defensive know-it-all. I pretty much slam your bullshit argument to the ground and you criticize me for trying to get attention?

Why not go ahead and try making a point or basing your assumptions on facts? I won't apologize for you being wrong, nor will I let some blow-hard pipe off like some expert when it's clear you are far from it. Do some reading, your little club of friends won't save you from being a stubborn moron, no matter how intolerable I am.

[Sanlmar]

Quite the list.

Home Depot, for instance. Largely self checkout. A kid looks after 4 registers for assistance.

On a hot day when I am cranky and prepared to fight some plumber behind me in line who just wants to pay for a couple washers - I am gonna insist I want to pay with Bitcoin.

Right.

Can you imagine a return having paid with Bitcoin.

Subway could be more howls.

I really doubt either of these really do.

You got a couple dozen one man enterprises in the free world otherwise.

[GringoStar]

Quite the list. Largely fiction by appearances.

Home Depot, for instance. Largely self checkout. A kid looks after 4 registers for assistance.

On a hot day when I am cranky and prepared to fight some plumber behind me in line who just wants to pay for a couple washers - I am gonna insist I want to pay with Bitcoin.

Right.

Can you imagine a return having paid with Bitcoin.

Subway could be more howls.

I really doubt either of these really do.

You got a couple dozen one man enterprises in the free world otherwise.

Yeah, except for dozens of them are huge companies and many are top 20 websites. Just stop for a minute and do some reading before assuming I am wrong. You may learn something.

[Sanlmar]

Oh, where you convert Bitcoin into an actual currency?

No man. I am gonna take you at your word. I will hit Home Depot sooner than later.

Great dialogue with you - we'll communicate with red reps.

[GringoStar]

Oh, where you convert Bitcoin into an actual currency?

Bitcoin is an actual currency and there are MANY ways to convert it into your local State sanctioned currency. Please PLEASE do some cursory research before starting threads, posting or serving up counterarguments.

Having a bunch of people jump in and call me a fag or a pompous asshole isn't an argument and not knowing something doesn't mean that it isn't the truth.

Maybe you two should read up on BTC instead of just repeating the assumptions echoing through your fact-free heads.

[DJ_Chaps]

Yes Im sure literally dozens of dollars a year pass through the bitcoin wallet of those companies.


Thanks for sorting that out for us, you're definitely not yet another random try-hard farming for attention in this thread, which we have certainly never seen before.

Said completely without hint of irony I'm sure.

[Sanlmar]

Oh, where you convert Bitcoin into an actual currency?

Bitcoin is an actual currency and there are MANY ways to convert it into your local State sanctioned currency. Please PLEASE do some cursory research before starting threads, posting or serving up counterarguments.

Having a bunch of people jump in and call me a fag or a pompous asshole isn't an argument and not knowing something doesn't mean that it isn't the truth.

Maybe you two should read up on BTC instead of just repeating the assumptions echoing through your fact-free heads.

Kid I never did any name calling. Jesus this thread has turned to shit.

However, I will begin reading something about Bitcoin. It's all new to me. I am kinda late to the game.

[adamantium]

Listen up Gringo we have been around since before Brandi got her sheriffs card so to call any of us a racist is pretty much a compliment.

[GringoStar]

Bitcoin is an actual currency and there are MANY ways to convert it into your local State sanctioned currency. Please PLEASE do some cursory research before starting threads, posting or serving up counterarguments.

Having a bunch of people jump in and call me a fag or a pompous asshole isn't an argument and not knowing something doesn't mean that it isn't the truth.

Maybe you two should read up on BTC instead of just repeating the assumptions echoing through your fact-free heads.

Kid I never did any name calling. Jesus this thread has turned to shit.

However, I will begin reading something about Bitcoin. It's all new to me. I am kinda late to the game.

I apologize, I mistook your questioning for challenging my facts. You came out and said that the list looked to be almost completely fictitious, so I made the point that you should have a basis for forming that opinion before doing do. Otherwise, you run the risk of having someone like myself passively-aggressively lash out at you.

I am also not a kid. You may be a geezer, but I am not a child and certainly don't expect to be called one after schooling you on schooling yourself.

[GringoStar]

Listen up Gringo we have been around since before Brandi got her sheriffs card so to call any of us a racist is pretty much a compliment.

Again, I am not going to bend reality to conform with the reality you March 2012 guys have created for yourself in here.

[Sanlmar]

Gringo, you put that list out there.

Back up Home Depot or Square for me. I got my Bitcoin wallet and will do a trip report.

I frequent a couple little shops downtown that use Square with their phone to process payments like credit cards.

One is a barber shop and I am due. Lady works hard and I am not gonna fuck her or the waiting customers up without some reasonable assurance you are right.

I could google but you made the claim

[GringoStar]

Gringo, you put that list out there.

Back up Home Depot or Square for me. I got my Bitcoin wallet and will do a trip report.

I frequent a couple little shops downtown that use Square with their phone to process payments like credit cards.

One is a barber shop and I am due. Lady works hard and I am not gonna fuck her or the waiting customers up without some reasonable assurance you are right.

I could google but you made the claim

I googled that list, first of all.

I am not even sure what you are asking me right now... How to use BTC to make purchases with Home Depot and Square?

[Dan Druff]

Bitcoin is good for gambling, transferring money back and forth on the internet, and paying personal debts quickly.

It's not good for online merchants or the average consumer because of both the volatility and security issues.

You know that situation that just occurred with Bitfinex, where ALL users of the site took a 36% haircut on their "safe" funds, through no fault of their own (aside from foolishly leaving funds on an exchange)?

Yeah, that's the type of thing which will keep bitcoin from hitting mainstream.

Also, it's too overly complicated for the average internet user to understand.