PROJEKT:SEP **SCAM** (Rolled: A Jasep Saga)

[BUBBLES]

Thats the thing, even someone solid gold could always fuck up or something could happen. Rollings are infrequent in BAPS but they do happen. Look at Erick Lindgren for example. He used his rep to bet with people when he was broke. He did it on 2+2 as well.

Bottom line is if you invest in someone do the following

1. Make sure the guy has results

2. Make sure the guy has a good rep and is trustworthy

Jasep did not qualify for # 1


If your going to invest do your homework. Druff is not responsible here IMO

I think when jasep asked druff to run a bap thread on this site he should have done a little more digging into jasep back round/results etc

You are a retard.

[simpdog]

I agree with most of what you have said in this thread but not the part about druff, He did in fact fuck up bad here and put his users out to be cheated, I think if you run a site called poker fraud alert you better make sure the person running a bap on your site is solid gold, I think druff's feet should be held to the fire here

Thats the thing, even someone solid gold could always fuck up or something could happen. Rollings are infrequent in BAPS but they do happen. Look at Erick Lindgren for example. He used his rep to bet with people when he was broke. He did it on 2+2 as well.

Bottom line is if you invest in someone do the following

1. Make sure the guy has results

2. Make sure the guy has a good rep and is trustworthy

Jasep did not qualify for # 1


If your going to invest do your homework. Druff is not responsible here IMO

I'm one of the few that still believes Jasep will pay back the investment. That being said you are correct, anyone who invested is at fault for their own actions.

But with all the rollings that have happened and massive info comes out afterwards....why do the people with all the information hold out for so long? The reason I invested was because people who I respect on here (china,druff,drexel,few others) invested themselves or allowed all this to play out.

[The_PHA]

I will say this, because as LLL said, I am basically out of the loop as I really have not paid attention to 20+ pages of this thread because I never could see a #.

That said, and I may be wrong. But I remember the initial stake and I did not see China or Druff making a stake. Something did not seem right when I saw that.

This is not arm chair QBing. I saw it and was like WTF? I did not say anything at the time, but I sensed there was something not correct. I also thought of 4Bet too. Someone as passionate as himself just not goes randomly make shit up.

[4BET]

I think when jasep asked druff to run a bap thread on this site he should have done a little more digging into jasep back round/results etc

You are a retard.

You don't think druff has a duty here to try his best to keep the lowlife beggars from running bap threads on his site?

[BUBBLES]

You are a retard.

You don't think druff has a duty here to try his best to keep the lowlife beggars from running bap threads on his site?

No

[sonatine]

You are a retard.

You don't think druff has a duty here to try his best to keep the lowlife beggars from running bap threads on his site?

Seriously youre functionally retarded.

[pavoe]

Isnt JoeU conected to 22Q? maybe someone (china, druff...) can contact him and ask about the recieved amount.
i dont like to say it but i think if money is missing it has to be recoverd in some way. the ex-owners of vpr have to talk about that. especially after all the noise prior to the event. that is why they dont want those threads over at 2+2.

[Dan Druff]

Before I make a statement on the Jasep situation itself, I want to address 4BET's claim that I should share some responsibility here, because I allowed Jasep to run the BAP.

It is important to understand that all BAP/staking deals here are "let the buyer beware". We are all adults here. We all need to take responsibility for our financial decisions.

My rule regarding needing permission to run BAP/stakes came from the Templar debacle, where a relatively new/unknown user showed up, impressed the community with some funny photoshops, and then jumped into running a BAP and contest where he was actually stealing the money.

I decided after that to change the rules where I would hold all PFA contest money, and that I would need to give permission to anyone wanting to run a BAP.

However, that does not mean that I guarantee such people to be honest and trustworthy. It just means that, in my opinion at the time, the person does not seem to have any red flags, and has been around long enough to where it's not a fly-by-night scammer.

Obviously I do not have the time or resources to do major investigations of financial solvency and history regarding everyone running BAP/stakes here.

I feel very bad when my site is used as a vehicle to scam people, but unfortunately that is inevitable in a place where money frequently changes hands between users. The only way to completely prevent this is to ban ALL monetary deals between users, but that would remove a lot of the fun aspect of the forum, and would also be too controlling on my part. Simply put, I don't feel I have a right to tell you how you can spend your money.

I do want to apologize to 4BET, whose story about Jasep is now looking a lot more truthful. At the time, I will say that Jasep looked like he was likely the one in the right, because he did not have a known history of slow-paying or scamming, and it appeared that 4BET was making a huge deal over nothing. This was especially true because 4BET actually got paid. However, it does appear at this point that 4BET was intentionally slow-paid by Jasep, and that 4BET's initial accusations were correct. I apologize for being one of the people who doubted him at the time.

More coming shortly.

[The_PHA]

You don't think druff has a duty here to try his best to keep the lowlife beggars from running bap threads on his site?

Seriously youre functionally retarded.

Did you not say you were never posting here again? Not a big deal, I have made several of those, just want to make sure I saw not dreaming. Double negatives FTW.

[donkdowndonedied]

You are a retard.

You don't think druff has a duty here to try his best to keep the lowlife beggars from running bap threads on his site?

It was pretty much their fault. Septic tank doesn't appear to be that old. There is like almost no chance he didn't play online. If he was 60 and grew up before computers were widespread and thus had some technology aversion... sure. I've met people like that. So you weigh the 2 options. Is he hiding poor results / previous scams or is he one of these people that don't really exist ? Thats the only reason a website like parttimepoker existed, the ability to verify online results.

[The_PHA]

Before I make a statement on the Jasep situation itself, I want to address 4BET's claim that I should share some responsibility here, because I allowed Jasep to run the BAP.

It is important to understand that all BAP/staking deals here are "let the buyer beware". We are all adults here. We all need to take responsibility for our financial decisions.

My rule regarding needing permission to run BAP/stakes came from the Templar debacle, where a relatively new/unknown user showed up, impressed the community with some funny photoshops, and then jumped into running a BAP and contest where he was actually stealing the money.

I decided after that to change the rules where I would hold all PFA contest money, and that I would need to give permission to anyone wanting to run a BAP.

However, that does not mean that I guarantee such people to be honest and trustworthy. It just means that, in my opinion at the time, the person does not seem to have any red flags, and has been around long enough to where it's not a fly-by-night scammer.

Obviously I do not have the time or resources to do major investigations of financial solvency and history regarding everyone running BAP/stakes here.

I feel very bad when my site is used as a vehicle to scam people, but unfortunately that is inevitable in a place where money frequently changes hands between users. The only way to completely prevent this is to ban ALL monetary deals between users, but that would remove a lot of the fun aspect of the forum, and would also be too controlling on my part. Simply put, I don't feel I have a right to tell you how you can spend your money.

I do want to apologize to 4BET, whose story about Jasep is now looking a lot more truthful. At the time, I will say that Jasep looked like he was likely the one in the right, because he did not have a known history of slow-paying or scamming, and it appeared that 4BET was making a huge deal over nothing. This was especially true because 4BET actually got paid. However, it does appear at this point that 4BET was intentionally slow-paid by Jasep, and that 4BET's initial accusations were correct. I apologize for being one of the people who doubted him at the time.

More coming shortly.

What about 6 Toes? He did break the story. I get the fact you will never allow his access, but he does deserve an acknowledgement.

[Steve-O]

Isnt JoeU conected to 22Q? maybe someone (china, druff...) can contact him and ask about the recieved amount.
i dont like to say it but i think if money is missing it has to be recoverd in some way. the ex-owners of vpr have to talk about that. especially after all the noise prior to the event. that is why they dont want those threads over at 2+2.

How many people stuck their necks out for you guys and months later you don't even know if the check has been sent??? My stomach is literally churning that this money might be missing

[offthetop]

haha Johnny, you got me, it was a bit late though

[sonatine]

Seriously youre functionally retarded.

Did you not say you were never posting here again? Not a big deal, I have made several of those, just want to make sure I saw not dreaming. Double negatives FTW.

Yeah, but that was predicated on the inability to have any sort of substantive discourse here without a shitstorm of subnormal attention whores trying to be funny, interesting, or cogent and not even having the decency to blush when they failed.

With Sixtoedpete gone, Team Fetal Alcohol Syndrome lost a lot of their horsepower and appear to be toeing the line, so chiming in on occasion isnt so painful, especially considering this thread is of personal interest considering my history with jasep, the people this impacts, so on.

[LLL]

Before I make a statement on the Jasep situation itself, I want to address 4BET's claim that I should share some responsibility here, because I allowed Jasep to run the BAP.

It is important to understand that all BAP/staking deals here are "let the buyer beware". We are all adults here. We all need to take responsibility for our financial decisions.

My rule regarding needing permission to run BAP/stakes came from the Templar debacle, where a relatively new/unknown user showed up, impressed the community with some funny photoshops, and then jumped into running a BAP and contest where he was actually stealing the money.

I decided after that to change the rules where I would hold all PFA contest money, and that I would need to give permission to anyone wanting to run a BAP.

However, that does not mean that I guarantee such people to be honest and trustworthy. It just means that, in my opinion at the time, the person does not seem to have any red flags, and has been around long enough to where it's not a fly-by-night scammer.

Obviously I do not have the time or resources to do major investigations of financial solvency and history regarding everyone running BAP/stakes here.

I feel very bad when my site is used as a vehicle to scam people, but unfortunately that is inevitable in a place where money frequently changes hands between users. The only way to completely prevent this is to ban ALL monetary deals between users, but that would remove a lot of the fun aspect of the forum, and would also be too controlling on my part. Simply put, I don't feel I have a right to tell you how you can spend your money.

I do want to apologize to 4BET, whose story about Jasep is now looking a lot more truthful. At the time, I will say that Jasep looked like he was likely the one in the right, because he did not have a known history of slow-paying or scamming, and it appeared that 4BET was making a huge deal over nothing. This was especially true because 4BET actually got paid. However, it does appear at this point that 4BET was intentionally slow-paid by Jasep, and that 4BET's initial accusations were correct. I apologize for being one of the people who doubted him at the time.

More coming shortly.

What about 6 Toes? He did break the story. I get the fact you will never allow his access, but he does deserve an acknowledgement.

No he didn't. You were out of the country and out of the loop.

You are out of your element here, Donnie.

[handicapme]

Thats the thing, even someone solid gold could always fuck up or something could happen. Rollings are infrequent in BAPS but they do happen. Look at Erick Lindgren for example. He used his rep to bet with people when he was broke. He did it on 2+2 as well.

Bottom line is if you invest in someone do the following

1. Make sure the guy has results

2. Make sure the guy has a good rep and is trustworthy

Jasep did not qualify for # 1


If your going to invest do your homework. Druff is not responsible here IMO

I'm one of the few that still believes Jasep will pay back the investment. That being said you are correct, anyone who invested is at fault for their own actions.

But with all the rollings that have happened and massive info comes out afterwards....why do the people with all the information hold out for so long? The reason I invested was because people who I respect on here (china,druff,drexel,few others) invested themselves or allowed all this to play out.

I'm still hoping he pays it all back like he said he would. He hasn't responded to my emails, and his phone is off... Not looking likely. He said I should receive payment by the 6th of feb, so if I don't on that day I will open a dispute on paypal since I sent the funds as "goods and services". I really wanted to believe in this guy. I still hope that while many things posted here don't hold him in the right light, that he does the right thing.

[Dan Druff]

Oh, and I am not banning Jasep. He has a right to come here and defend himself. I hope he does, but I have a feeling we won't be hearing from him again.

I am also not unbanning SixToedPete. His banning had nothing to do with the stuff he posted on his own site about Jasep. He was banned because he posted personal info about one of my family members in the PFA chat room during one of the recent radio shows. He also threatened to post more if I didn't do exactly what he was demanding. Obviously that sort of behavior will get you banned here.

[4BET]

Before I make a statement on the Jasep situation itself, I want to address 4BET's claim that I should share some responsibility here, because I allowed Jasep to run the BAP.

It is important to understand that all BAP/staking deals here are "let the buyer beware". We are all adults here. We all need to take responsibility for our financial decisions.

My rule regarding needing permission to run BAP/stakes came from the Templar debacle, where a relatively new/unknown user showed up, impressed the community with some funny photoshops, and then jumped into running a BAP and contest where he was actually stealing the money.

I decided after that to change the rules where I would hold all PFA contest money, and that I would need to give permission to anyone wanting to run a BAP.

However, that does not mean that I guarantee such people to be honest and trustworthy. It just means that, in my opinion at the time, the person does not seem to have any red flags, and has been around long enough to where it's not a fly-by-night scammer.

Obviously I do not have the time or resources to do major investigations of financial solvency and history regarding everyone running BAP/stakes here.

I feel very bad when my site is used as a vehicle to scam people, but unfortunately that is inevitable in a place where money frequently changes hands between users. The only way to completely prevent this is to ban ALL monetary deals between users, but that would remove a lot of the fun aspect of the forum, and would also be too controlling on my part. Simply put, I don't feel I have a right to tell you how you can spend your money.

I do want to apologize to 4BET, whose story about Jasep is now looking a lot more truthful. At the time, I will say that Jasep looked like he was likely the one in the right, because he did not have a known history of slow-paying or scamming, and it appeared that 4BET was making a huge deal over nothing. This was especially true because 4BET actually got paid. However, it does appear at this point that 4BET was intentionally slow-paid by Jasep, and that 4BET's initial accusations were correct. I apologize for being one of the people who doubted him at the time.

More coming shortly.

Thanks for admitting that their was truth to my story back then, I do under stand you don't have time to look into everyone past but their was big red flags here, If my story didn't raise the red flags then the way he handled the ipad contest should have been enough to not let him run this bap here

[Dan Druff]

Before I make a statement on the Jasep situation itself, I want to address 4BET's claim that I should share some responsibility here, because I allowed Jasep to run the BAP.

It is important to understand that all BAP/staking deals here are "let the buyer beware". We are all adults here. We all need to take responsibility for our financial decisions.

My rule regarding needing permission to run BAP/stakes came from the Templar debacle, where a relatively new/unknown user showed up, impressed the community with some funny photoshops, and then jumped into running a BAP and contest where he was actually stealing the money.

I decided after that to change the rules where I would hold all PFA contest money, and that I would need to give permission to anyone wanting to run a BAP.

However, that does not mean that I guarantee such people to be honest and trustworthy. It just means that, in my opinion at the time, the person does not seem to have any red flags, and has been around long enough to where it's not a fly-by-night scammer.

Obviously I do not have the time or resources to do major investigations of financial solvency and history regarding everyone running BAP/stakes here.

I feel very bad when my site is used as a vehicle to scam people, but unfortunately that is inevitable in a place where money frequently changes hands between users. The only way to completely prevent this is to ban ALL monetary deals between users, but that would remove a lot of the fun aspect of the forum, and would also be too controlling on my part. Simply put, I don't feel I have a right to tell you how you can spend your money.

I do want to apologize to 4BET, whose story about Jasep is now looking a lot more truthful. At the time, I will say that Jasep looked like he was likely the one in the right, because he did not have a known history of slow-paying or scamming, and it appeared that 4BET was making a huge deal over nothing. This was especially true because 4BET actually got paid. However, it does appear at this point that 4BET was intentionally slow-paid by Jasep, and that 4BET's initial accusations were correct. I apologize for being one of the people who doubted him at the time.

More coming shortly.

Thanks for admitting that their was truth to my story back then, I do under stand you don't have time to look into everyone past but their was big red flags here, If my story didn't raise the red flags then the way he handled the ipad contest should have been enough to not let him run this bap here

I didn't know about the iPad thing until a few hours before Detroit posted about it here.

[Sandwich]

I agree, I am not ridiculing them either. But it is amazing that some of these guys were still sticking up for the guy as little as yesterday or 2 days ago.

Let's review some facts. Jasep has(had) a very public presence on these boards. To the outside investor (sucker?), he hosted radio shows (for years?), did the 22Q charity fundraiser, was trusted by the likes of Druff and Drexel and Chinamaniac... arguably, stand up guys in this community of ours. Jasep seemed pretty open about various things in his life -- the good, the bad and the ugly. There was a question about how "responsible" Jasep is, but never (at least before all this drama came out) about Jasep being untrustworthy or dishonest. Brandon's chinese poker stuff, business partners' reservations, pikachar's involvement, whoever posted about Jasep lying about shipping an ipad -- NONE of that was disclosed by any of you until very recently.

So Jasep's public presence, the fact that the BAP was supported by PFA (allowed to post about it here), the fact that Drexel was the largest investor (we didn't know at the time it was rollover from gambling loss), and "daily accountability" via a playing schedule along with daily videos of progress... weekly payouts... full accounting... Couple all that with a 60-40 split in investors' favor... add in that this is a MAKEUP deal... Do you guys really think he went to all this trouble to roll people for 5k? (which sold out in a matter of a couple of days? why not go for 10k?)

The whole thing does not make sense to me. If Project:Sep was a scam from the beginning, why not offer it without makeup, and just gradually "lose" the stake and then say "sorry guys, low limit live poker is not beatable"? The way this played out makes no sense from a scamming standpoint. It's petty shit. A lot of effort for very little.

If Jasep makes all of his "investors" whole (which he has promised to do, btw), a lot of this criticism falls by the wayside, imo. In spite of all of these attacks, I hope he does the right thing and proves that Project:Sep was not a scam.