Good point, but not interested in their stock or any other airline stock. I just wanted to directly discuss them. ThxOriginally Posted by hesterandeldridge
Good point, but not interested in their stock or any other airline stock. I just wanted to directly discuss them. Thx
Fuck paying extra for the big seats in front! I'm flying Spirit for exactly one reason: It's dirt fucking cheap. Aside from paying for my coffee, I have absolutely no interest in spending an extra dollar with them. If you wanted to fly me out to Vegas, on Spirit, on your dime, and offered to pay for the big seats in front, I would ask you not to waste money like that.
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It's not even strictly that they are the cheapest; they are often the cheapest by miles (lame joke). Honestly, if something like Southwest was $20 more expensive for the round trip, then I would choose that over Spirit. I'm not so cheap that I'm willing to sacrifice comfort for $20...which is really $12-$14 because I'd have to pay for Spirit's coffee.
With that, when you're talking about a difference of hundreds of dollars, then you get whatever you get and you should be damn well happy with it.
The two passages above contradict each other.
First you say you aren't going to pay the moderate fee to upgrade to a big seat up front, because you want the cheapest flight possible.
Just when I'm about to respect your commitment to ultra-frugality, you throw in the fact that you would fly a better airline like Southwest if it were just a little cheaper.
Ummmmm... then why not also be willing to pay a small premium to get a much bigger/better seat, and therefore a much better experience?
I don't know how tall you are, or how wide you are. Maybe you're a small guy. But I'll tell you... when I accidentally booked a discount airline in 2014 and didn't realize it (I thought I was booking mainline Air Canada, and boy was I disappointed when I found out the truth), my girlfriend who is 5'5" also complained about the legroom. So unless you're a little kid, I think you always can enjoy more legroom and a wider seat.
Daly is correct to pay the small extra premium to have the "best experience possible" on a discount service. It's a similar concept to paying a small amount extra to get the best room at a mediocre or crappy hotel.
As for T-Mobile...
Much like Spirit, they can appear to be a great value until something goes wrong. You are lucky that nothing has gone wrong in a decade. Many others haven't been so lucky, including me in the 2000s.
Do they give you free stuff and appear customer friendly? Yes. But it's what I like to call "fake customer friendly"> That is, on the surface they have certain policies which appear more generous than competitors, but if anything happens out of the ordinary, they tell you to eat shit.
Here's my horror story:
I had a good phone number I lucked into on Sprint in the early 2000s. A guy at work came in with some female friend of his who was pushing T-Mobile. I don't know why the boss allowed this, maybe he didn't know about it. Anyway the woman was one of those independent cell reps who gets a commission for signing you up, but also was able to give people extras for doing so, such as up front (small) discounts on equipment.
She was nice enough, and T-Mobile's deal was a lot better than I was currently getting with Sprint. So I said sure, sign me up. I almost didn't because I didn't want to lose my good phone number, and you couldn't port numbers in those days, but the Jewish side of me took over and wanted the cheaper bill.
For awhile, it was fine. Reception was decent, the phone itself was decent (by early 2000s standards), and the bill was cheaper for the same type of plan. Great success, right?
That was until I bought a new phone about 2 years later. I bought it through T-Mobile itself, and they shipped it to me. About 3 weeks in, the reception went to absolute shit. It had 1-2 bars in areas where I previously had 5, and no service where I previously had 1-2 bars. It was very difficult to have a clear phone call. Keep in mind that I knew exactly what to expect because the previous phone had good reception, and even this one did for the first 3 weeks before it crapped out. I did not drop it or get it in water or anything like that. It was just faulty.
I called up and they said that you only have 14 days to do a "replacement", but they could do a "warranty claim". I asked what the difference was, and they said it's just different mechanisms to get the phone replaed at no cost. So I said, "Sure, do the warranty claim."
Phone arrived. I open it up, and the screen is flickering on and off. About 75% of the time, the screen is completely blank, but will sometimes flicker back on before disappearing again seconds or minutes later. Obviously this was unacceptable. Same model. So this one had decent reception, but as you can imagine, I couldn't continue like this.
I called back and asked how I got 2 faulty phones in a row. The rep said, "Well, the warranty claims are refurbished phones, so you probably got a bad one."
Refurbished?? But I just paid full price for a NEW phone 3 weeks ago, and it was faulty! So now I get a refurbished phone just 3 weeks in, for a new phone price? That's a bunch of bullshit. If my phone were 11 months old, that would be more acceptable, but 3 weeks?
I brought this up, but not only wouldn't they budge, I was treated like I was crazy for not being happy with this. Nobody would concede that I got fucked here. Nobody felt I deserved a new phone to replace it, nor did they feel I deserved any bill credit for this fiasco.
No matter how much I tried to reason with them, even with the supervisor, they would not budge. "The warranty provides you with a refurbished phone between 15 and 364 days after purchase. Those are the rules."
Talk about not appreciating the customer!
Well, they finally wore me down and I accepted another replacement phone. This one had good reception and the screen worked. BUT... it would just power itself off at random times. I'd be on a call, and BAM... the phone turns off by itself, despite having lots of battery left. I'd have the phone in my pocket and pull it out, only to find it turned off a long time ago, and anyone calling me didn't reach me. Again, obviously this was unacceptable.
In case you've lost count, that's 3 consecutive bad phones.
I called up once again to reason with them. "PLEASE send me a new phone," I begged them. "I got 3 straight faulty phones, the last 2 being refurbished. I've never compalined about anything before. I always pay my bill on time. PLEASE just replace this with a new phone."
Nope. Wouldn't budge. I asked for a supervisor again.
I pleaded my case with him. He responded, "So what I'm hearing is a customer who wants us to make special exceptions for him, and can't accept the written warranty that came with the phone."
What an asshole. I repeated that I paid full price for the phone, it lasted 3 weeks, and the 2 replacements have been even worse.
"Yeah, let me get right on that," he snapped back. "I'd like nothing more than to help a customer who can't read the warranty."
I asked him, "Is this the way T-Mobile trains supervisors to talk to good customers? To mock them?"
He responded, "If the customer isn't getting it, then yes, I mock them."
I demanded to speak to someone above him to report this, and he told me there wasn't anyone, and gave me some bullshit address to write to if I had any complaint. Eventually he just hung up on me.
I called the retentions department. I pleaded my case with them. I reported that supervisor and his insulting attitude. The retentions person was nice enough, but reiterated that they absolutely, positively could not send me a new phone, nor give me any bill credit. Also I was on a contract, and they would not let me out of it early. And as far as reporting that asshole supervisor, they said they would "send feedback to his supervisor" but could not connect me in any way with anyone actually supervising him.
I decided at this point just to ride out the contract and then shut it down. I told them to send me yet another refurbished phone. This one also had screen problems, but not as bad as the other one. I just couldn't see the bottom of the screen at all. I decided to live with it. 4th phone and still not working right, but at least it was usable.
The day the contract was ending, I called up to cancel. I got another retentions person, and then asked for their supervisor, so I could talk to the highest person possible. I explained everything that happened.
"As far as the way you were treated by that supervisor, that wasn't acceptable, and I wish I had gotten your call back then, because I would have tracked him down and something would have happened there," he said. "And with the phone, yes I can fully understand your frustration. You paid for a new phone, got use of it for 3 weeks, and then kept getting bad refurbished phones to replace it. I would be annoyed in your situation, too."
FINALLY! A guy at T-Mobile who understood, and seemingly had some power. But then he continued...
"Unfortunately there's nothing I can do for you. We don't have a way to replace phones with new ones if it's been more than 14 days, and we don't have a policy to give the customer any credit in situations like yours, no matter how problematic the replacement process", he explained.
"Well what about the way that supervisor treated me. You see my complaints about him in the record, right?", I questioned.
"We don't give credits for that sort of thing, either," he said. "As I said, had I been the one taking your call, I would have made sure he faced some discipline, but that's all internal, and I coudln't provide you with that info anyway. We don't credit the customer for bad experiences with our reps, no matter how troubling."
"Well, now you know why I'm cancelling," I told him.
"Yes, that makes sense. Sorry it didn't work out with us, and feel free to come back any time."
That was in the mid-2000s.
About 10 years later, I mocked someone's tweet tagging T-Mobile, and some social media person there saw it and publicly begged me to give them another chance. I briefly explained the refurbished phone fiasco I had gone through.
"Oh, that is still our policy today, but this is standard in the industry. We hope you'll still give us another chance!" the person tweeted back to me.
Bullshit. That is not standard in the industry. I have dealt with both ATT and Verizon, and while they have had their difficult moments, I was always eventually able to resolve problems. T-Mobile shut me down completely. Why? Because they look at the customer like a low class piece of shit who can't afford better, so they don't feel they need to do anything to keep you.
I generally have had good luck with call centers, except one time. I bought a refurbished laptop from a company that has since either went out of business or got purchased. For the life of me I cannot remember the brand but it was not Dell, Compaq, etc.. But the laptop was only $300 and I had broken my $1,000 laptop on a bad Party Poker beat and was in no mood to spend top dollar.
So the laptop came and it appeared to be in pristine condition, was proud of my purchase. Except it would not keep a charge, it had to be plugged in or it would go dead, obviously I had an incompatible charger.
So I called and got this uber smarmy motherfucker, I knew it right in the opening salvo when he said "how's it going my man". I explained my situation and how I liked to trade stocks and play poker on my porch and there was no outlet so I needed the computer to carry a charge. He responded "oh you are a stock broker". I was like WTF? I let it slide, and repeated the issue and he cut me off and said and I remember this verbatim: "Big Money what do you want me to do send you a bunch of power cords?" I was again like WTF did you just say? He retorted "Ok Big Money you get what you pay for, this is chump change for a big time stock broker".
Naturally I cursed him out and I could hear him laughing and hung up. Obviously I called back and got a supervisor and he assured me all calls are recorded and if even 10% were true he would terminate that employee on the spot. Yes, I got the correct power cord the next day and a call from some manager apologizing after they listened to the call.
They don't strictly contradict each other. If you called me up and said, "Hey, I can get you on Southwest instead, for a difference of $20, if you want," I'd reply, "Sure, thanks!"
The two passages above contradict each other.
First you say you aren't going to pay the moderate fee to upgrade to a big seat up front, because you want the cheapest flight possible.
Just when I'm about to respect your commitment to ultra-frugality, you throw in the fact that you would fly a better airline like Southwest if it were just a little teacher.
Ummmmm... then why not also be willing to pay a small premium to get a much bigger/better seat, and therefore a much better experience?
I don't know how tall you are, or how wide you are. Maybe you're a small guy. But I'll tell you... when I accidentally booked a discount airline in 2014 and didn't realize it (I thought I was booking mainline Air Canada, and boy was I disappointed when I found out the truth), my girlfriend who is 5'5" also complained about the legroom. So unless you're a little kid, I think you always can enjoy more legroom and a wider seat.
Daly is correct to pay the small extra premium to have the "best experience possible" on a discount service. It's a similar concept to paying a small amount extra to get the best room at a mediocre or crappy hotel.
If it costs something like $20 to get the bigger seat on Spirit, then that's not what I am flying Spirit for; I am only on Spirit to maximize the amount of money I save, so that's what I am going to do, aside from buying their coffee (refills are included) both ways. I'm not on Spirit because they have a bigger seat in front; I am on Spirit because they are cheap...exception to coffee, I want the cheapest experience possible because that's why I am flying with them in the first place.
We're about similar in stature, I believe. I'm 6'3" and about 235lbs. I am, however, a bit younger than you are, so I don't find sitting straight up and down for a few hours particularly bothersome. In my experience, the difference in legroom (on other airlines) isn't even that meaningful, but I never measured the dimensions or anything.
Anyway, I don't want the best experience possible; I want the cheapest experience possible. If I didn't want the cheapest, then I wouldn't be on Spirit---paying for anything extra defeats that purpose. The only reason that coffee is an exception is because the coffee is probably cheaper (or as cheap) as anywhere in the airport; of course, if I buy it in the airport, then I am in no position to avail myself of a refill once I am on the plane.
Don't Tread on Anyone, mothafucka!
RE: T-Mobile
The first thing that I would say is that phones are generally better now; you also don't have to buy the phone itself from T-Mobile. The only potential benefit to buying a phone directly from them (if the phones are the same price) is that they will often offer to split it up, interest-free, and add it to your bill over a period of six or twelve months. I don't know if I'm necessarily inclined to avail myself of that, probably not.
That aside, I'd just go to the Apple Store, and then to T-Mobile, and see where I can get the cheapest phone. I'm pretty partial to iPhones as I have never had a problem with one. My Google Phone absolutely sucked; though it was pretty good for the first year, or so. What happened was they did some update that turned the phone's IP Address to all 0's, as a result, I couldn't make phone calls or do anything unless I was on some kind of WiFi. Obviously, my phone was outside of warranty, so they wouldn't do anything about it, despite that it was their update that did it! I would have been on AT&T at the time, but the problem had nothing to do with them in the first place.
My only complaint with AT&T is that they were too expensive and I didn't find the service/coverage any better with them than it was with T-Mobile.
You're probably aware of this, but T-Mobile and Sprint merged and is now all T-Mobile. T-Mobile is no longer a discount cell service company and are, in fact, the third-largest provider in the U.S. (market share) with #4 not even being in their remote vicinity. People also seem to like T-Mobile the best these days:
https://clark.com/cell-phones/best-c...one-providers/
I don't think you'd have a similar issue with them nowadays, but you could avoid any possibility of that simply by purchasing your phone elsewhere.
Don't Tread on Anyone, mothafucka!
Spirit Stock (SAVE) looks very good at this price having been speaking of Spirit..
Could easily 3x now
Home office might want me to cone up next week. Just checked spirit / round trip fly down tuesday night fly back wed night $115.
The big seat up front roundtrip upgrade is the same price.
Cant beat it
This Spirit Airlines situation is interesting, though I haven't dug too deeply.
From what I can tell, SAVE (Spirit Airlines) was stabilized (stock price) mostly by a merger agreement with JetBlue, with those negotiations being started in 2022. The Biden Administration announced that it was going to challenge this merger on anti-trust grounds (reduced competition), which then caused SAVE's price to plummet. SAVE"s price would take another nosedive after the merger was blocked due to antitrust.
What's strange about this is that the, "Big Four," airlines control 80% of the market as it stands, so I could almost understand where SAVE merging with one of them would be a problem. However, it appears that the combined SAVE and JetBlue would become only the fifth-largest airline and control significantly less than 20% of the market on its own.
SAVE's recent price recovery is based entirely on the fact that they have appealed the blocking of the JetBlue merger.
In addition to the alleged antitrust (I am very skeptical, here) the judge points out that SAVE's fleet would be converted to JetBlue both in terms of pricing as well as the craft themselves. The judge's concern is that JetBlue has a higher price point than does SAVE, so this merger will not be beneficial for consumers as consumers will lose an extremely low cost airline and travel, on average, will become more expensive.
While that is likely true, that has absolutely nothing the fuck to do with antitrust. How is becoming the fifth-largest airline a problem when you still have just under half of the average market share (I've seen about 9%) when compared to the average of the Big Four?
It should also be mentioned that SAVE is just hemorrhaging money; the company has operated at a loss from 2020 (no surprise) to 2022. 'Operating at a loss,' is top line, which is to say, they lose money before you even start calculating actual net income. Unless 2023Q4 was just phenomenal for SAVE, operating at a loss will remain the case in 2023. They did operate profitably (still lost money overall) in 2023Q2, but still took a negligible loss overall. The operating losses of Q1 and Q3 are substantially more than the operating profit of Q2, so most likely (based on Q4 of previous years) SAVE will, once again, lose a ton of money on the year.
With that, even though it could take awhile, why should a company that is on a trajectory of inevitable failure (unless something dramatically changes) be blocked from merging with a company that seems to have turned the corner coming out of Covid? Similar to SAVE, JetBlue has taken an operating loss for each of the last three years, but as long as they operated profitably in the fourth quarter of 2023 (which is almost certain), then they will have operated profitably in 2023 and might even have positive net income.
It seems like an Ames acquiring Hills situation to me. You take one company just starting to turn the corner, then that company acquires a company that is performing terribly, in the same market...hoping for...well, what? Your guess is as good as mine, but I suppose it's their risk to take.
Someone more conspiracy minded might think that the Government would prefer for SAVE just to fail so that the assets can be scooped up in a Chapter 7 somewhere down the line...probably by one of the Big Four.
I mean, sure, SAVE has the lowest fares, but how is that going to help people if they continue to siphon money and eventually go out of business anyway?
Don't Tread on Anyone, mothafucka!
I gamble Spirit but I could never have written that summary Mission.
The perfect mix of attitude, humor and fact. Very entertaining.
Doesn’t business class exist for business travelers on expense anymore? No one ever checked in the old days.
I also remember just calling a person whose sole job was booking travel for employees who didn’t want to shop.
Random related item-
01-23-24
Southwest Airlines strike: Flight attendants vote to authorize strike
Won't ever fly this airline. Everyone I know who has flown this airline has told me not to fly them. The Departure times are merely suggestions. If your checked luggage makes it to your destination you are lucky.
i always try to fly American. i have Admiral's Club access and Executive Platinum status that gets me free upgrades. The lounges make traveling way more comfortable. My firm spends a lot on the AAdvantage Credit Card that earns miles and loyalty points which increases status level. Used miles to pay for lounge access for family. If you know how to game the system, you can earn top tier status real easy.
En boca cerrada, no entran moscas
That has absolutely not been my experience at all.
I have never in my life had a Spirit flight depart or arrive late. Not once. They're honestly the only airline I've ever flown that I can say that for. I had United Airlines cancel my flight from Chicago to Pittsburgh the night before Christmas Eve once. I sure am glad that I paid $400-something (per ticket) for round trip; United's tremendous service really made it worth it.
The funny thing about that was that they actually managed to get my luggage to my house two days faster than the next flight they were able to offer me would have taken off. I don't know how they pulled that off. Maybe they put my bags on a Spirit flight.
Don't Tread on Anyone, mothafucka!
The "best cell providers" is a gimmick they've been crowing about for the past 2 decades.
It's beacuse "best" is very subjective. If AT&T charged you more, and you switched to T-Mobile and saved money, you will probably rate T-Mobile "best".
I will say that at the time, and even a decade later, I went to take a gander at consumer complaint sites and I saw the same type of complaints about T-Mobile that I had back in the 2000s. Sure, every cell company has disgruntled customers, but the T-Mobile complaints really took on a consistent air of a company which is inflexible and looks down on their customer base.
If the general customer service model involves inflexibility and a constant suspicion that their customers are trying to get one over on them, I want no part of that company, even if I save few bucks.
Honestly, I have mixed feelings on this one.
Involves a really good friend of mine from HS who had a horrible experience with SWA over the holidays to the point shes filed a complaint with DOT for violations of Disabled access and abuse by staff prior to and on the plane on her flight back home to San Fran. She has severe asthma to the point she qualifies for seating consideration and they literally stuck somebody with a damn dog in the seat behind her so the dog was sitting under her seat. The one flight attendant was a flaming bitch to her accusing her of lying despite documentation (the irony is shes actually a Respiratory Therapist at a major hospital in the Valley there and has been there for over a decade I believe shes the actual Asst Director of Resp Services). Anyway its gotten ugly she sent multiple letters out to SWA, DOT and a few others. DOT has apparently opened an investigation and given them 30days to respond they face a rather large potential financial slap down into 6 figures.
If I can find a couple of the letters she gave copies to me she sent out I will scan and post them its pretty fucking damning against SWA. But sadly seeing how other airlines have behaved the last several years even prior to Covid I cant say Im surprised. My guess is she probably has cause for a lawsuit as well but I dont think shes interested in that never really been one to chase money its the principal of the thing. Besides she makes a healthy check at her job.
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Heres irony for ya. TMobile has been getting smashed over the quality of their so called home internet service as it slows to a crawl in alot of places during peak time and its true based on some folks I know who tried it. Meanwhile Ive got Verizon Home Internet as my backup in case my cable modem takes a dump while they decide to do upgrades or maintenance overnight and Im up, I can still get 200-300Mbps easily on it but Ive tested evenings and its no slower on the router or my cell phone Ive found so service isnt degraded like TMobiles is. (They literally lower the priority of data on the TMob home internet compared to actually cell users on smart phones and tablets operating directly on their network during busy hours).The "best cell providers" is a gimmick they've been crowing about for the past 2 decades.
It's beacuse "best" is very subjective. If AT&T charged you more, and you switched to T-Mobile and saved money, you will probably rate T-Mobile "best".
I will say that at the time, and even a decade later, I went to take a gander at consumer complaint sites and I saw the same type of complaints about T-Mobile that I had back in the 2000s. Sure, every cell company has disgruntled customers, but the T-Mobile complaints really took on a consistent air of a company which is inflexible and looks down on their customer base.
If the general customer service model involves inflexibility and a constant suspicion that their customers are trying to get one over on them, I want no part of that company, even if I save few bucks.
Unfortunately, Im moving in a month, so the wife can be a shit ton closer to work since shes the one making 6 figures in her job now (commute is 75mins one way from where we are now) and despite Verizon claiming there's 5G UWB my Iphone says otherwise. Its usually LTE and one bar at best at the new house outside. Its gotta be a small hole in the coverage because if I go a little further down the main road one way or the other about a mile or two it kicks to 5G UWB and 300-400Mbps. I cant troubleshoot with them or try and convince them there is an issue till Im down there long enough to go through hurdles with tech support. (dont get keys till 31st).
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www.jokerstarspoker.club (not your mommas chinese poker app)
Funny you bring this up, because Southwest and T-Mobile are incredibly similar. I often compare the two.Honestly, I have mixed feelings on this one.
Involves a really good friend of mine from HS who had a horrible experience with SWA over the holidays to the point shes filed a complaint with DOT for violations of Disabled access and abuse by staff prior to and on the plane on her flight back home to San Fran. She has severe asthma to the point she qualifies for seating consideration and they literally stuck somebody with a damn dog in the seat behind her so the dog was sitting under her seat. The one flight attendant was a flaming bitch to her accusing her of lying despite documentation (the irony is shes actually a Respiratory Therapist at a major hospital in the Valley there and has been there for over a decade I believe shes the actual Asst Director of Resp Services). Anyway its gotten ugly she sent multiple letters out to SWA, DOT and a few others. DOT has apparently opened an investigation and given them 30days to respond they face a rather large potential financial slap down into 6 figures.
If I can find a couple of the letters she gave copies to me she sent out I will scan and post them its pretty fucking damning against SWA. But sadly seeing how other airlines have behaved the last several years even prior to Covid I cant say Im surprised. My guess is she probably has cause for a lawsuit as well but I dont think shes interested in that never really been one to chase money its the principal of the thing. Besides she makes a healthy check at her job.
Both Southwest and T-Mobile:
- Have generous-looking gimmicks to make them appear customer friendly
- Are aimed at the lower-middle-class demographic -- people with enough income to stay away from the bargain basement services, but also can't quite afford (or don't want to pay) the prices of the mainline providers
- Are large, despite their aim at the lower-middle-class market
- Are incredibly inflexible, and occasionally nasty, when any problem or unusual circumstance comes up
- Can deceptively appear to be great value to those who haven't run into any issues with them yet
Southwest outright stole $100 from me in 2009. F them.
New logo for Spirit’s tail
That's fair. I have no real interest in defending T-Mobile to the death, but if getting a rate locked in for life isn't getting one over on them, then I don't know what is (even though they offered it) and they seem perfectly happy with my fiancee and I. I guess we just have different perspectives on the company and I'm willing to admit that my perspective is highly biased by positive personal experiences with them. That said, I don't have anything negative to say about AT&T other than they were more expensive for, in my opinion, the same quality and reliability of coverage.The "best cell providers" is a gimmick they've been crowing about for the past 2 decades.
It's beacuse "best" is very subjective. If AT&T charged you more, and you switched to T-Mobile and saved money, you will probably rate T-Mobile "best".
I will say that at the time, and even a decade later, I went to take a gander at consumer complaint sites and I saw the same type of complaints about T-Mobile that I had back in the 2000s. Sure, every cell company has disgruntled customers, but the T-Mobile complaints really took on a consistent air of a company which is inflexible and looks down on their customer base.
If the general customer service model involves inflexibility and a constant suspicion that their customers are trying to get one over on them, I want no part of that company, even if I save few bucks.
Don't Tread on Anyone, mothafucka!
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