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Thread: Infamous alt-right zealots like Noam Chomsky, Salman Rushdie, Margaret Atwood, and J.K. Rowling are calling out cancel culture and demanding it stops

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    Platinum gimmick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by gimmick View Post

    They have their share of fotm issues. I've yet to see any of them trump the issues of donators when it comes to actual national policy though. Almost none of it's dogma. There's few traditional issues where science isn't a part of such as abortion. I don't know what part science could play in it. I also think we're maybe 2 generations away from governments paying for abortion/sterilization. And the slightly less civil rights oriented governments mandating it.

    Then there's the part are we talking about the American left/right or Global. You only have centrist and right wing economic representation. Most of the social issues of your left are cosigned by the Western European right. The large scale ones. Social security, healthcare and unions to a degree first come to mind. Such as funding NHS was a campaign point for Brexit.

    There's also certain emotionally driven causes that also have a base in science. Criminal justice system, human rights and social security. The only true emotional part is do you want to like in healthier, safer and fairer society or are you fine living in gated communities surrounded by the 3rd world. Traditionally Americans have been willing to gamble for the spot in gated communities. It's a worse gamble every year and wasn't that great to begin with.

    Meh, one those Hamptons not being a defensible position coming to fruition in our life time.

    this of course is a much more informed, broader spectrum perspective than the one i was presenting. im just endlessly fascinated and equal parts horrified by my political factions inability to reconcile its mixed messages on this issue.
    Something similar could be seen in 80s gay rights and 00s animal rights. They were both emotionally driven campaigns, that were essentially going in the right direction, but there was plenty of stupid shit on the sidelines.

    And if i remember correctly the mainstream right wing reaction to both was prophecy of the end the world. FBI might have infiltrated both.

    Re: Russian psyops, i don't think they really produce their own material. There's so much existing lunacy to choose from. They pick few and see what gets most traction. The current right-wing echo chamber of information is so interwoven with zero control for verifying anything that's it's really cheap and easy to plug almost anything there. Most of it ripples here daily. And apparently half the site believes that is an accurate portrayal of the left.

     
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      The Shrink: yes

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    Mad Neg Repper 1marley1's Avatar
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    Look at this lefty who likes to cancel people for their speech and views.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/07/polit...ngs/index.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by gimmick View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post


    this of course is a much more informed, broader spectrum perspective than the one i was presenting. im just endlessly fascinated and equal parts horrified by my political factions inability to reconcile its mixed messages on this issue.
    Something similar could be seen in 80s gay rights and 00s animal rights. They were both emotionally driven campaigns, that were essentially going in the right direction, but there was plenty of stupid shit on the sidelines.

    And if i remember correctly the mainstream right wing reaction to both was prophecy of the end the world. FBI might have infiltrated both.

    Re: Russian psyops, i don't think they really produce their own material. There's so much existing lunacy to choose from. They pick few and see what gets most traction. The current right-wing echo chamber of information is so interwoven with zero control for verifying anything that's it's really cheap and easy to plug almost anything there. Most of it ripples here daily. And apparently half the site believes that is an accurate portrayal of the left.

    its funny you would mention PETA here. i grew up watching earth first / PETA be the adult voices in the room for overall empathy and ecological responsibility, and when they both drifted towards extremism the obvious conclusion was that it was just more FBI shenans. and although im absolutely positive there were gov agitators in both circles, the unpleasant truth is that once you plant a flag in the narrative advocating an extremist view, the people who gravitate towards it will, by nature, be the loudest voices and eventually drown out the moderate/centerist core by simultaneously alienating sane stable people from the cause and replacing them with people who are implicitly attracted to extremist chaos.

    democracy's dark flaw, etc.

     
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      gimmick: true, but the other side of democracy made sure nothing bad happened
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

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    Diamond dwai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1marley1 View Post
    Look at this lefty who likes to cancel people for their speech and views.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/07/polit...ngs/index.html
    Name:  OnlyAdorableAoudad-small.gif
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      1marley1: dope
      
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    A number of famous liberals such as Noam Chomsky, Salman Rushdie, J.K. Rowling, and Margarat Atwood were among 100 left-leaning intellectuals putting forth a scathing editorial against modern cancel culture.

    You know... that cancel culture which several PFA leftists say doesn't really exist, or they claim is being exaggerated by Fox News.
    Druff, you seem to have conveniently conflated these two separate notions. Because while Fox News absolutely traffics in exaggerating threats from the left, including this one, regardless of whether anyone on PFA says he cancel culture doesn’t exist. Hell, I’ve posted a clip of David Pakman railing against the cancel culture on this forum. And he just got Eric Weinstein’s seal of approval for his stance of the matter.



    So, really. Please identify the “PFA lefties” who have said on this forum that the cancel culture doesn’t really exist? Because only that is a legitimate category to vent your screed at here as being toxically “Woke”.
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    I actually hope this [second impeachment] succeeds, because I want Trump put down politically like a sick, 14-year-old dog. ... I don't want him complicating the 2024 primary season. I just want him done.
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    Were Republicans cowardly or unethical not to go along with [convicting Trump in the second impeachment Senate trial]? No. The smart move was to reject it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post

    If you agree with her, why does her inclusion bother you?

    its interesting that you would assume im bothered by it. i dont really have a personal stake in this. i was commenting that its going to emotionally charge the dialog around the apparent cause. chomsky, rushdie, atwood are regarded as intellectuals and generally well informed and well grounded. rowling is perceived as being on the 'wrong side' of this issue aka transphobic so shes a bit of a poison pill here.
    Nailed it. This letter has become more about who signed it rather than what it says. Now we have people who signed the letter apologizing for signing the letter. Lunacy.


     
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      Dan Druff: lol woke leftists
      
      Walter Sobchak: The Shrink is a bad muthafucka

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    Quote Originally Posted by gimmick View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post


    in fairness, i think the assertion that the left champions science while also supporting emotion driven campaigns that undermine science is wholly legitimate.

    like thats a legitimate beef. if someone showed me papers saying it was a russian psyop, id say its likely the single most effective russian psyop in history.
    They have their share of fotm issues. I've yet to see any of them trump the issues of donators when it comes to actual national policy though. Almost none of it's dogma. There's few traditional issues where science isn't a part of such as abortion. I don't know what part science could play in it. I also think we're maybe 2 generations away from governments paying for abortion/sterilization. And the slightly less civil rights oriented governments mandating it.

    Then there's the part are we talking about the American left/right or Global. You only have centrist and right wing economic representation. Most of the social issues of your left are cosigned by the Western European right. The large scale ones. Social security, healthcare and unions to a degree first come to mind. Such as funding NHS was a campaign point for Brexit.

    There's also certain emotionally driven causes that also have a base in science. Criminal justice system, human rights and social security. The only true emotional part is do you want to like in healthier, safer and fairer society or are you fine living in gated communities surrounded by the 3rd world. Traditionally Americans have been willing to gamble for the spot in gated communities. It's a worse gamble every year and wasn't that great to begin with. Max

    Meh, one those Hamptons not being a defensible position coming to fruition in our life time.

    Really well said, and my main issue with everything. It is a poor gamble. It’s not even survival of the fittest with how corrupt our system is. I always say everyone is making $200k or $12 an hour. Very little in between. The number of people I know who make $60k shrinks every year. It’s basically truckers and a few assistants at companies.

    That’s an area where your job is likely to be privatized or somehow shipped off. And the highest paid people I used to know were people who had earned it or were highly educated. Now they’re frequently kind of idiots who fell into a niche of society protected at all costs. Not complete idiots, as they play their game well in that niche , but not smart people.

    Generally the medical industrial complex, pharma, legal services, sales, but not the physicians or lawyers themselves who went to school for a decade. It’s the surrounding cast selling shit to them or servicing the industries. Often making more than the doctors and lawyers themselves if they aren’t specialists or partners. Just a really strange economy.

    Not some Trump issue. A long bad trend over 40 years.

     
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      MumblesBadly: Only about 10% of truckers make 60k+ per year in the current state of the industry. Average now is about $44k.
      
      Walter Sobchak: BCR is god

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Now that people are getting cancelled for signing the anti-cancel-culture letter, and are apologizing for having signed it, is it time for a second letter about the cancel culture cancelling those speaking out against the cancel culture?

    Then those people can also get cancelled, publicly apologize, and we will be at the third level!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Now that people are getting cancelled for signing the anti-cancel-culture letter, and are apologizing for having signed it, is it time for a second letter about the cancel culture cancelling those speaking out against the cancel culture?

    Then those people can also get cancelled, publicly apologize, and we will be at the third level!


    NICE STRAWMAN DRUFF

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    Responses to the Harper's letter are bananas. The left hates the letter. The right hates the letter.



    (She now claims the above was a "joke." Hmmm.)




    What a mess.

    At least Malcolm Gladwell gets it.


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    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCR View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by gimmick View Post

    They have their share of fotm issues. I've yet to see any of them trump the issues of donators when it comes to actual national policy though. Almost none of it's dogma. There's few traditional issues where science isn't a part of such as abortion. I don't know what part science could play in it. I also think we're maybe 2 generations away from governments paying for abortion/sterilization. And the slightly less civil rights oriented governments mandating it.

    Then there's the part are we talking about the American left/right or Global. You only have centrist and right wing economic representation. Most of the social issues of your left are cosigned by the Western European right. The large scale ones. Social security, healthcare and unions to a degree first come to mind. Such as funding NHS was a campaign point for Brexit.

    There's also certain emotionally driven causes that also have a base in science. Criminal justice system, human rights and social security. The only true emotional part is do you want to like in healthier, safer and fairer society or are you fine living in gated communities surrounded by the 3rd world. Traditionally Americans have been willing to gamble for the spot in gated communities. It's a worse gamble every year and wasn't that great to begin with. Max

    Meh, one those Hamptons not being a defensible position coming to fruition in our life time.

    Really well said, and my main issue with everything. It is a poor gamble. It’s not even survival of the fittest with how corrupt our system is. I always say everyone is making $200k or $12 an hour. Very little in between. The number of people I know who make $60k shrinks every year. It’s basically truckers and a few assistants at companies.

    That’s an area where your job is likely to be privatized or somehow shipped off. And the highest paid people I used to know were people who had earned it or were highly educated. Now they’re frequently kind of idiots who fell into a niche of society protected at all costs. Not complete idiots, as they play their game well in that niche , but not smart people.

    Generally the medical industrial complex, pharma, legal services, sales, but not the physicians or lawyers themselves who went to school for a decade. It’s the surrounding cast selling shit to them or servicing the industries. Often making more than the doctors and lawyers themselves if they aren’t specialists or partners. Just a really strange economy.

    Not some Trump issue. A long bad trend over 40 years.

    i cant stress enough how similar this is to argentina in the months/weeks before the currency crash.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

  12. #32
    Platinum gimmick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCR View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by gimmick View Post

    They have their share of fotm issues. I've yet to see any of them trump the issues of donators when it comes to actual national policy though. Almost none of it's dogma. There's few traditional issues where science isn't a part of such as abortion. I don't know what part science could play in it. I also think we're maybe 2 generations away from governments paying for abortion/sterilization. And the slightly less civil rights oriented governments mandating it.

    Then there's the part are we talking about the American left/right or Global. You only have centrist and right wing economic representation. Most of the social issues of your left are cosigned by the Western European right. The large scale ones. Social security, healthcare and unions to a degree first come to mind. Such as funding NHS was a campaign point for Brexit.

    There's also certain emotionally driven causes that also have a base in science. Criminal justice system, human rights and social security. The only true emotional part is do you want to like in healthier, safer and fairer society or are you fine living in gated communities surrounded by the 3rd world. Traditionally Americans have been willing to gamble for the spot in gated communities. It's a worse gamble every year and wasn't that great to begin with. Max

    Meh, one those Hamptons not being a defensible position coming to fruition in our life time.

    Really well said, and my main issue with everything. It is a poor gamble. It’s not even survival of the fittest with how corrupt our system is. I always say everyone is making $200k or $12 an hour. Very little in between. The number of people I know who make $60k shrinks every year. It’s basically truckers and a few assistants at companies.

    That’s an area where your job is likely to be privatized or somehow shipped off. And the highest paid people I used to know were people who had earned it or were highly educated. Now they’re frequently kind of idiots who fell into a niche of society protected at all costs. Not complete idiots, as they play their game well in that niche , but not smart people.

    Generally the medical industrial complex, pharma, legal services, sales, but not the physicians or lawyers themselves who went to school for a decade. It’s the surrounding cast selling shit to them or servicing the industries. Often making more than the doctors and lawyers themselves if they aren’t specialists or partners. Just a really strange economy.

    Not some Trump issue. A long bad trend over 40 years.
    Yea it started about 40 years ago. General wage stagnation and ever shrinking middle class. Loss of manufacturing jobs. The manufacturing sector is still doing great. You produce more stuff than ever before, it's just done with one third of the workforce. It's a common trend everywhere in the west. It's either robots or tech that requires very specific training. Everything else is outsourced to Asia, South-America or East-Europe. China is now outsourcing jobs to cheaper Asian countries with less workers rights.

    I'm not surprised that sales or marketing have created high paying positions. There's just not that much left. This kinda happened...

    Name:  Services-and-Manufacturing-and-growth-since-1939.gif
Views: 304
Size:  60.4 KB

    ...when people spent their time bickering about trannies in bathrooms.

     
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      MumblesBadly: The depopulation of the manufacturer sector has NOT occurred in Germany during that span of time.
      
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  13. #33
    Diamond BCR's Avatar
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    We need the two party system to wither and die already. That’s been true for a long time, but it’s really close to taking the country down. Both parties needing to cater to mental illness in increasing numbers on the increasingly larger fringe is unsustainable. We need something sane to emerge that can disagree and compromise, and not get lost on fighting over nonsense all day every day. Actual arguments about fixing real problems, not just being distracted by culture wars shit constantly while the corporate world loots the country. It’s one big Jerry Springer show at this point.

     
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      Jayjami: Solid take

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    Quote Originally Posted by BCR View Post
    We need the two party system to wither and die already. That’s been true for a long time, but it’s really close to taking the country down. Both parties needing to cater to mental illness in increasing numbers on the increasingly larger fringe is unsustainable. We need something sane to emerge that can disagree and compromise, and not get lost on fighting over nonsense all day every day. Actual arguments about fixing real problems, not just being distracted by culture wars shit constantly while the corporate world loots the country. It’s one big Jerry Springer show at this point.
    Dilly Dilly....and Gladwell is awesome.

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    All Sorts of Sports gut's Avatar
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    I dont think i had ever heard of Jennifer Finney Boylan, but now i know I will try to never read anything that idiot writes.

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    100% Organic MumblesBadly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Shrink View Post
    Responses to the Harper's letter are bananas. The left hates the letter. The right hates the letter.



    ...


    Dave Rubin doesn’t realize (or admit to himself) that most folks who “cancel” him because he is an idiot who simply parrots whatever his deep pocketed right wing sponsors tell him to.
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    I actually hope this [second impeachment] succeeds, because I want Trump put down politically like a sick, 14-year-old dog. ... I don't want him complicating the 2024 primary season. I just want him done.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Were Republicans cowardly or unethical not to go along with [convicting Trump in the second impeachment Senate trial]? No. The smart move was to reject it.

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    Platinum splitthis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCR View Post
    We need the two party system to wither and die already. That’s been true for a long time, but it’s really close to taking the country down. Both parties needing to cater to mental illness in increasing numbers on the increasingly larger fringe is unsustainable. We need something sane to emerge that can disagree and compromise, and not get lost on fighting over nonsense all day every day. Actual arguments about fixing real problems, not just being distracted by culture wars shit constantly while the corporate world loots the country. It’s one big Jerry Springer show at this point.
    Typical left winger socialist agenda.
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.

    Ronald Reagan

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    All Sorts of Sports gut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MumblesBadly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Shrink View Post
    Responses to the Harper's letter are bananas. The left hates the letter. The right hates the letter.



    ...


    Dave Rubin doesn’t realize (or admit to himself) that most folks who “cancel” him because he is an idiot who simply parrots whatever his deep pocketed right wing sponsors tell him to.
    That is just gold.

    Did you copy'n'paste that from wiki?

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    I'm not a Dave Rubin fan because he's not honest about what he is.

    He's the right wing version of The Lincoln Project. Rubin claims to be a "classical liberal", and then uses that identity to club the left, basically saying, "Look, I'm one of you, and here's how wrong and stupid you're being..."

    The fact that he's openly gay just reinforces people's belief that Rubin is an actual gay liberal who is able to see through his own side's hypocrisy and wrongheadedness.

    But it's not true. Rubin was once a liberal, but he's not anymore. He's now a conservative. This sort of thing happens all the time. Liberals become conservative, and conservatives become liberal. I know several moderate conservatives from 2012 who are now Trump-loving conservatives, and several moderate Republicans from 2012 who are now Trump-hating leftists. People change, I accept that.

    What I can't accept are the phonies who hold onto their previous identity because it gives them a perceived upper hand in debates, or because it makes them more marketable.

    The people behind The Lincoln Project are not conservatives. There are legit conservatives who hate Trump, but they aren't among them, at least not anymore.

    Similarly, Dave Rubin is not a liberal. There are legit liberals who hate SJWs, the cancel culture, and modern wokeness, but Rubin is not one of them.

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Aside from a few people whose names definitely shouldn't be on that list of signatures because of recent hypocrisy (those two NY Times people I mentioned earlier are a good example), the right should really quit bashing the letter and get behind it.

    I hate to admit it, but the woke left has run over conservatives really hard in the past 6 weeks. The George Floyd killing sent the woke SJW crew into fanatical overdrive, but instead of coming back with a tough-but-sane response to all of this, Republicans have been mostly silent, and they've been very short on action.

    We've sat and watched businesses destroyed, people beaten and killed, cities destroyed, and other than some weak condemnation, most Repubilcans steered clear of the whole thing. Even Trump himself mostly sat on his hands and just tweeted.

    The woke SJWs won the past 6 weeks, and a lot of their craziness has become accepted by many as normal and necessary.

    Those who attempted to call them out were getting rapidly cancelled, and corporate America panicked and kneeled before their new woke Lords, asking what they could do or say in order to avoid mass boycotts.

    Finally we are seeing some pushback from within. A civil war between the woke Dems and the non-woke Dems would be great for Republicans, because it would provide the GOP with ammunition that Democrats really have been out of control, and it took the elder, sane people in their own party to finally call it out. That's the best possible message the GOP could put forth right now.

    It's also why the left is so angry about that letter.

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