So coronavirus is definitely going to kill a few of us.

[OSA]

I live in NY. There's always demand. I just moved in Feb so I don't want them to think I was waiting for something like this to happen to cheat them. If I ask them for reduced rent, and the say yes, I would need to get that in writing because otherwise they can claim in 3 months or when this is over that I didn't want to pay rent and there was no deal made.

I know a Jew who rents commercial buildings and he has already come out and offered 35% discount on his properties for the time being. I have to assume they would be open to the same thing

Are you actually working right now? Are you honestly making as much as before, or are you seeing reduced pay/commissions/whatever?

The strongest position from which to argue in this spot is, "I still have an income and can pay rent, just not as much rent", and that might be preferable to someone who just shuts down and doesn't pay. If you could prove this, it would be even better.

And yes, obv get anything in writing.

My commission is based on booked meetings. I was averaging 8 a week. I am working right now, however, in the past 5 days, I have had only 1, even though I have been working harder than usual, and reaching almost 2x as many people, but NO ONE is agreeing to anything.

Also I dont get paid on my commission until the end of the following month so whatever I book in March ill see in end of April

I am going to wait till end of March and if things stay the same, I will re evaluate.

I also spent 130 bucks on a Unlimited Metrocard a week before my office closed so that's money down the drain

[Dan Druff]

The fact that you were actually claiming that landlords will benefit from being forced to have non-paying tenants, instead of vacancies, pretty much says it all. Try posting that on a landlords' forum or Facebook group and see what reaction you get.

common practice among homeowners, its called house-sitting, and it is just to make sure the property will be looked after while idle. we had a spare house with which did just that...and it was a good thing we did...because in the year after the sitter finished and we got our spare occupied, the house next to it was squatted in...the police had to come remove the druggies

They key word here is FORCED.

If a landlord chooses to have a non-rent-paying "house sitter' over a vacant unit/home, he can do that. In most cases he will choose not to do this, especially in apartment buildings with a live-in manager.

Jayjami is laughably trying to make the point that the gubbmint is doing landlords a favor by forcing them to keep non-rent-paying tenants because it will prevent vacant units from being vandalized/squatted. You know, as opposed to giving them a choice in the matter.

The government FORCING its will upon businesses is never good for the business.

[Shizzmoney]

Embedded Tweet

https://twitter.com/twt/status/1240709382490505216

[Dan Druff]

holy shit you actually think landlord's forums and facebook groups are sources.

Landlords tend to know what's best for their business. A landlords forum or Facebook group would be a great source to get their collective opinion regarding what they feel is a positive or negative.

You know, as opposed to an attorney telling them that the gubbmint is doing them all a favor by keeping warm non-paying bodies in their units.

Look, if Jayjami wants to argue this from the tenants' standpoint, I'll probably disagree but at least I can understand it. But I'm laughing at his line of reasoning that this is actually best for landlords. That's why I encouraged him to run his ideas by actual landlords.

[GrenadaRoger]

common practice among homeowners, its called house-sitting, and it is just to make sure the property will be looked after while idle. we had a spare house with which did just that...and it was a good thing we did...because in the year after the sitter finished and we got our spare occupied, the house next to it was squatted in...the police had to come remove the druggies

They key word here is FORCED.

If a landlord chooses to have a non-rent-paying "house sitter' over a vacant unit/home, he can do that. In most cases he will choose not to do this, especially in apartment buildings with a live-in manager.

Jayjami is laughably trying to make the point that the gubbmint is doing landlords a favor by forcing them to keep non-rent-paying tenants because it will prevent vacant units from being vandalized/squatted. You know, as opposed to giving them a choice in the matter.

The government FORCING its will upon businesses is never good for the business.

yes, I see your point too...but if the landlord chooses not to let a hard-luck tenant stay temporary, then don't come begging to the government if it gets damaged by squatters/looters/vandals.

[Dan Druff]

Are you actually working right now? Are you honestly making as much as before, or are you seeing reduced pay/commissions/whatever?

The strongest position from which to argue in this spot is, "I still have an income and can pay rent, just not as much rent", and that might be preferable to someone who just shuts down and doesn't pay. If you could prove this, it would be even better.

And yes, obv get anything in writing.

My commission is based on booked meetings. I was averaging 8 a week. I am working right now, however, in the past 5 days, I have had only 1, even though I have been working harder than usual, and reaching almost 2x as many people, but NO ONE is agreeing to anything.

Also I dont get paid on my commission until the end of the following month so whatever I book in March ill see in end of April

I am going to wait till end of March and if things stay the same, I will re evaluate.

I also spent 130 bucks on a Unlimited Metrocard a week before my office closed so that's money down the drain

I can't speak for your landlord, but in general they're probably looking for reliable rent payers right now.

They don't want the guy who is trying to negotiate reduced rent because he's out of a job, because he probably won't pay at all.

They don't want to feel angled by the guy who is operating at status quo but just wants a discount.

But if you can show you'll pay but just need to pay somewhat less, that's possibly the sweet spot.

[OSA]

My commission is based on booked meetings. I was averaging 8 a week. I am working right now, however, in the past 5 days, I have had only 1, even though I have been working harder than usual, and reaching almost 2x as many people, but NO ONE is agreeing to anything.

Also I dont get paid on my commission until the end of the following month so whatever I book in March ill see in end of April

I am going to wait till end of March and if things stay the same, I will re evaluate.

I also spent 130 bucks on a Unlimited Metrocard a week before my office closed so that's money down the drain

I can't speak for your landlord, but in general they're probably looking for reliable rent payers right now.

They don't want the guy who is trying to negotiate reduced rent because he's out of a job, because he probably won't pay at all.

They don't want to feel angled by the guy who is operating at status quo but just wants a discount.

But if you can show you'll pay but just need to pay somewhat less, that's possibly the sweet spot.

So If I pay 900, I should offer 450? 600?

Issue is I also have a guarantor so if they want to they could just take it from him

[Jayjami]

Ok everybody. Listen to the computer geek. He’s always right. I’m just a 25 year attorney who has represented multiple landlords and tenants.

This "computer geek" actually has a lot of real world experience in this industry. Look at some of my other posts on the topic over the years and you'll see that.

Your post reeks of that of an attorney who understands the law and the court system but not the business side of the industry.

The fact that you were actually claiming that landlords will benefit from being forced to have non-paying tenants, instead of vacancies, pretty much says it all. Try posting that on a landlords' forum or Facebook group and see what reaction you get.

I get it. Greedy landlords being deprived of their Jew gold are the real victims here. Has the morality of kicking people out into the streets during a pandemic simply because they can’t find work even crossed your mind? Plus, it would only worsen the spread of the virus.

[Dan Druff]

This "computer geek" actually has a lot of real world experience in this industry. Look at some of my other posts on the topic over the years and you'll see that.

Your post reeks of that of an attorney who understands the law and the court system but not the business side of the industry.

The fact that you were actually claiming that landlords will benefit from being forced to have non-paying tenants, instead of vacancies, pretty much says it all. Try posting that on a landlords' forum or Facebook group and see what reaction you get.

I get it. Greedy landlords being deprived of their Jew gold are the real victims here. Has the morality of kicking people out into the streets during a pandemic simply because they can’t find work even crossed your mind? Plus, it would only worsen the spread of the virus.

Who says kick people out into the streets?

How about negotiating with them? How about allowing them to defer some portion of rent payment, after full disclosure (with proof) regarding their financial situation?

You can both have a heart and not leave yourself open to getting taking advantage of.

Honestly I think some form of government assistance is necessary for people who lost jobs because of this virus. I just don't like how private businesses are being forced to give assistance without compensation by the government.

[Dan Druff]

I can't speak for your landlord, but in general they're probably looking for reliable rent payers right now.

They don't want the guy who is trying to negotiate reduced rent because he's out of a job, because he probably won't pay at all.

They don't want to feel angled by the guy who is operating at status quo but just wants a discount.

But if you can show you'll pay but just need to pay somewhat less, that's possibly the sweet spot.

So If I pay 900, I should offer 450? 600?

Issue is I also have a guarantor so if they want to they could just take it from him

Yes the guarantor makes your position weaker. I'm not sure what to offer. I'd have to know the market and the demand there, and how you compare to the other tenants.

450 sounds very low though. You might want to approach this in the same way you approach salary discussions. You let them throw out the first figure, then go from there.

[BCR]

I can't speak for your landlord, but in general they're probably looking for reliable rent payers right now.

They don't want the guy who is trying to negotiate reduced rent because he's out of a job, because he probably won't pay at all.

They don't want to feel angled by the guy who is operating at status quo but just wants a discount.

But if you can show you'll pay but just need to pay somewhat less, that's possibly the sweet spot.

So If I pay 900, I should offer 450? 600?

Issue is I also have a guarantor so if they want to they could just take it from him

To be honest, you have very little leverage in that spot assuming you actually care about your guarantor which I assume you do.

You have to hope for some program that bails out both landlords and tenants alike. Short of that, you can probably stay six months without being out on the street, but you’ll be fucking up whomever helped you out and forcing them to decide if they want to pay your bills or take a serious credit hit.

[OSA]

So If I pay 900, I should offer 450? 600?

Issue is I also have a guarantor so if they want to they could just take it from him

To be honest, you have very little leverage in that spot assuming you actually care about your guarantor which I assume you do.

You have to hope for some program that bails out both landlords and tenants alike. Short of that, you can probably stay six months without being out on the street, but you’ll be fucking up whomever helped you out and forcing them to decide if they want to pay your bills or take a serious credit hit.

Yea, totally forgot about that guarantor part. That idea is chucked out the window...lol.


Thanks all for your input

[BCR]

To be honest, you have very little leverage in that spot assuming you actually care about your guarantor which I assume you do.

You have to hope for some program that bails out both landlords and tenants alike. Short of that, you can probably stay six months without being out on the street, but you’ll be fucking up whomever helped you out and forcing them to decide if they want to pay your bills or take a serious credit hit.

Yea, totally forgot about that guarantor part. That idea is chucked out the window...lol.


Thanks all for your input

You’d have leverage in an area that isn’t high demand. Guarantor plus NY is kind of hope for some sweeping legislation that pays them for you.

And I think you quoted me when you meant to quote Druff as I just entered discussion. He knows more about this than I ever will. You just seem in a bad spot to bargain.

[Dan Druff]

To be honest, you have very little leverage in that spot assuming you actually care about your guarantor which I assume you do.

You have to hope for some program that bails out both landlords and tenants alike. Short of that, you can probably stay six months without being out on the street, but you’ll be fucking up whomever helped you out and forcing them to decide if they want to pay your bills or take a serious credit hit.

Yea, totally forgot about that guarantor part. That idea is chucked out the window...lol.


Thanks all for your input

Still won't hurt to try. They might make a deal with you anyway. The last thing they feel like doing right now is going after a guarantor in court.

As I said, let them throw out a figure.

[OSA]

https://www.crainsnewyork.com/corona...yments-90-days


Banks in New York will waive mortgage payments for 90 days and suspend foreclosures, Gov. Andrew Cuomo said Thursday.

Eligibility for waived payments is based on financial hardship, the Governor said. The 90 days constitutes a grace period—those who participate in the program will still owe their payments but be allowed to pay them at a later date.

"We're also going to take a bold action, but a necessary action offering 90-day relief on mortgage payments," the governor said. "Waiving mortgage payments based on financial hardship. Meaning if you are not working, if you're working only part-time, we're going to have the banks and financial institutions waive mortgage payments for 90 days—that will be a real life economic benefit, it will also be a stress reliever for families."


Banks also will ignore fees associated with late payments and overdrafting on ATM and credit cards, Cuomo said, adding that he will reassess whether the program should be extended as time goes on.


The economic ramifications of the Covid-19 crisis have been extreme. New Yorkers newly out of work have struggled to access unemployment benefits. A rush across the state to file unemployment claims crashed the Department of Labor's website Monday. Cuomo has said economic recovery will require a Great Depression–scale response from the government.

"Making a mortgage payment can be one of the No. 1 stressors," Cuomo said. "Eliminating that stressor for 90 days, I think, will go a long way."

The governor also increased the number of employees that would have to work from home to 75% from 50%.

"The numbers have gone up overnight. I'm going to increase the density control today. No more than 25% of people can be in the workforce," he said.

[OSA]

https://www.npr.org/2020/03/19/81834...mortgage-break

[simpdog]

Druff is it okay that homeowners get to stop mortgage payments but renters don't?

[BCR]

One rather common sense thing that seems easily eliminated is receipts. I ran to grab coffee this morning. They tried to hand me a receipt for $4 purchase. I’m already laying the money on the counter as I don’t want to touch you or make you touch me. Grabbed a fish sandwich through a drive thru as I was busy, tried to hand me a receipt again. I was like toss them. Seems like don’t we can eliminate receipts and avoid some poor person having to touch 500 people a day. If you need to expense something use a card. I’m using cards even for small purchases to avoid contact. Having people give receipts at drive thrus seems dumb. Staple it to the bag or whatever.

[Dan Druff]

Druff is it okay that homeowners get to stop mortgage payments but renters don't?

I'm not in favor of blanket mortgage payment forgiveness. There should be a burden of proof on the homeowner to show why they are enduring a substantial coronavirus-related hardship.

In any case, mortgages and rents have a different set of consequences for failing to ultimately pay.

If you don't pay your mortgage when all of this is over, the bank will simply take your house, and provided you're not underwater, they will make out just fine. So the risk to banks in each case ranges between low and nonexistent.

If you don't pay your back rent when all of this is over, you can just walk away (after stalling another several months via the slow eviction process) and the landlord is left holding an empty bag.

[MumblesBadly]

https://www.crainsnewyork.com/corona...yments-90-days


Banks in New York will waive mortgage payments for 90 days and suspend foreclosures, Gov. Andrew Cuomo said Thursday.

Eligibility for waived payments is based on financial hardship, the Governor said. The 90 days constitutes a grace period—those who participate in the program will still owe their payments but be allowed to pay them at a later date.

"We're also going to take a bold action, but a necessary action offering 90-day relief on mortgage payments," the governor said. "Waiving mortgage payments based on financial hardship. Meaning if you are not working, if you're working only part-time, we're going to have the banks and financial institutions waive mortgage payments for 90 days—that will be a real life economic benefit, it will also be a stress reliever for families."


Banks also will ignore fees associated with late payments and overdrafting on ATM and credit cards, Cuomo said, adding that he will reassess whether the program should be extended as time goes on.


The economic ramifications of the Covid-19 crisis have been extreme. New Yorkers newly out of work have struggled to access unemployment benefits. A rush across the state to file unemployment claims crashed the Department of Labor's website Monday. Cuomo has said economic recovery will require a Great Depression–scale response from the government.

"Making a mortgage payment can be one of the No. 1 stressors," Cuomo said. "Eliminating that stressor for 90 days, I think, will go a long way."

The governor also increased the number of employees that would have to work from home to 75% from 50%.

"The numbers have gone up overnight. I'm going to increase the density control today. No more than 25% of people can be in the workforce," he said.

Because rental real estate is usually highly leveraged (only a financial idiot would own such a property without substantial debt financing), banks providing temporary relief to borrowers is exactly the kind of support that landlords would need to help them weather the financial hit of not being able to evicting non-paying tenants during this crisis.

So, there you go, Druff. At least in New York, the government is providing substantial relief for landlords.