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Thread: It’s past time for folks to wake up to the insane anti-Semitism of the conservative Christians who unquestioningly support the government of Israel

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    Besides their opposition to the ideology of Jewish nationalism, the lecturers will also explain the traditional Orthodox Jewish view that Jews are forbidden to wage war but must live among the nations of the world in peace and with utmost loyalty, and that we must resist and fight against the draft law with all means at our disposal.

    I now see the crux of their position. They don't want to be forced into military service. These same people just want to sit home and pray all day instead of fulfilling their military obligation by serving their country.

    This is a huge problem, because Israel is supporting these individuals financially(they can't work because they pray all day), and receiving no benefit.

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    This is from Wiki, in regards to the Satmar founder.

    On 19 March 1944, the German Army occupied Hungary. The Jewish population, which was spared wholesale destruction prior to that time, was concentrated in the Satu Mare ghetto, and deportations to the concentration camps ensued. Joel sought to reassure the frightened people who for the most part weren't able to leave the country, saying that by the merit of their religiosity, they would be saved. However, when the Germans invaded, he was saved by his devoted followers, who paid a huge ransom to have him included in the passenger list of the Kastner train. Rabbi Joel reached Switzerland on the night of 7–8 December 1944, and soon immigrated to the British Mandate of Palestine. Many of Rabbi Joel's followers who were left behind were killed by the Nazis.



    Just based on this, and this alone, does this guy sound like someone you trust and has rational judgments? Guy saved his life by the donations of other people to be paid to Eichmann so that he could escape, while the people that couldn't leave got slaughtered.

    Guy was able to go to somewhere where he knew he would be safe and not led to his death and now his group rallies against settling in that same area where he was able to and save his life. Hypocrites.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OSA View Post
    This is from Wiki, in regards to the Satmar founder.

    On 19 March 1944, the German Army occupied Hungary. The Jewish population, which was spared wholesale destruction prior to that time, was concentrated in the Satu Mare ghetto, and deportations to the concentration camps ensued. Joel sought to reassure the frightened people who for the most part weren't able to leave the country, saying that by the merit of their religiosity, they would be saved. However, when the Germans invaded, he was saved by his devoted followers, who paid a huge ransom to have him included in the passenger list of the Kastner train. Rabbi Joel reached Switzerland on the night of 7–8 December 1944, and soon immigrated to the British Mandate of Palestine. Many of Rabbi Joel's followers who were left behind were killed by the Nazis.

    Just based on this, and this alone, does this guy sound like someone you trust and has rational judgments? Guy saved his life by the donations of other people to be paid to Eichmann so that he could escape, while the people that couldn't leave got slaughtered.

    Guy was able to go to somewhere where he knew he would be safe and not led to his death and now his group rallies against settling in that same area where he was able to and save his life. Hypocrites.
    The Satmar do not object to moving *peacefully to a place where they live in peace with the people there. They object to using violence to do so, which is direct opposition to Revisionist Zionist. They also object to using political control to oppress others in order to unilaterally benefit themselves, putting them at odds with Political and Labor Zionist. They also object to merely being secular and using Jewish traditions in a non-religious way that Cultural Zionists advanced to promote the Holy Land as a political homeland for Jews.

    Meaning, they believe that the Holy Land, and Jerusalem in particular, is a *religious* center for Jews to look to as part of their faith, but not a place to form a political state as Zionists have advanced. At least not before the Messiah comes. And they believe that regardless of the horror and death visited upon their families by the Nazis. And almost certainly believe that the Zionist movement fostered anti-Semitism to a fever pitch within Europe that made it easier for the Nazis to use their anti-Semitic rhetoric to gain enough support among the German people to come to power and carry out their genecidal agenda.

    In fact, one of the ways that Chaim Weizmann was able to convince the British to support the Zionist movement and issue the Balfour Declaration during World War I was his selling the British on the notion that German Jews (meaning the ones living in the Germany Empire) could be convinced to stop supporting their government in the war and help the Allies win it was with the British promising to back the formation of a Jewish homeland/state in Palestine, and that Jews around the world, including in Germany, were collectively so powerful that they could easily tip the scales of the war in favor of the Allies if motivated by such a promise.

    And given how the British adopted that strategy and policy in the midst of the war, that many of the Socialists in Germany were Jewish, that the Socialist government that took power after the Kaisar abdicated completed surrendered to the Allies before the German army was actually defeated, and that many Zionists were ardent Socialists, is it any wonder that Hitler’s feverish denunciation of Jews as the key to Germany being “backstabbed” in that surrender plausibly landed with so many Germans in the decade that followed?

    Based on these facts, it is not without credibility that the Holocaust would never have happened if the Zionist movement had not gotten the open backing of the side that defeated Germany in World War I. Not when over 100,000 German Jews served in their country’s armed forced during that conflict, and over 10,000 who died doing so had their names inscribed on memorials through Germany afterwards, which the Nazis later had exscribed to erase the memory of those heroic sacrifices for the German Empire.

    Seriously, sir. It is thoroughly questionable whether Zionist has even made Jews safer in this world to date given the horrific scale of the Holocaust if their movement inadvertantly contributed to the rise of the Nazis. And that is separate from increasing the risk of an apocalypic war against Jews living in Israel that Christian Zionists are delusionally longing for per their End Times prophecies, as well as increasing the likelihood of happening by promoting conflict with Muslim countries like Iran, and Muslims in general with their rampant Islamophobia.

    To which I say with a heavy heart: You, and many well-meaning people like you, have been duped, sir, by the false promise of Zionism as the way to make the world safer for the Jewish people. But let’s hope that even if my concerns here are ignored by most people with skin in the game, none of the apocalyptic possibilities advanced by Christian Zionists come to pass.

     
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      Zap_the_Fractions_Giraffe: lol
    Last edited by MumblesBadly; 04-22-2019 at 02:50 PM.
    _____________________________________________
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I actually hope this [second impeachment] succeeds, because I want Trump put down politically like a sick, 14-year-old dog. ... I don't want him complicating the 2024 primary season. I just want him done.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Were Republicans cowardly or unethical not to go along with [convicting Trump in the second impeachment Senate trial]? No. The smart move was to reject it.

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    OSA, the Satmar are apparently the fastest growing Jewish community outside of Israel. And they are teaching their many children to denounce Zionism and call for the peaceful dissolution of the state of Jsrael.



    They grew from about 1500 to about 150,000-250,000 worldwide in about 70 years. At that rate, they’ll number about 15-25 million in another 70 years. Their numbers certainly won’t be enough to counter the Christian Zionist voters in America, but they well could rival the number of the Zionist Jews worldwide by then.
    _____________________________________________
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I actually hope this [second impeachment] succeeds, because I want Trump put down politically like a sick, 14-year-old dog. ... I don't want him complicating the 2024 primary season. I just want him done.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Were Republicans cowardly or unethical not to go along with [convicting Trump in the second impeachment Senate trial]? No. The smart move was to reject it.

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    Back in the day we had a lot of Jews For Jesus.

    I'm not willing to google it but I don't think that sect ended up doing so well in the long run.
    Last edited by JoeD; 04-25-2019 at 07:46 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeD View Post
    Back in the day we had a lot of Jews For Jesus.

    I'm not willing to google it but I don't think that sect ended up doing so well in the long run.
    I believe such folks now fall under the umbrella of Messianic Jews. And perhaps their numbers have dwindled in response to outreach efforts to call once-believing Jews back to the faith, such as done by Tovia Singer.



    P.S. But I doubt this secular-looking rabbi, or any intra-Judaism outreach for that matter, would make a dent in the beliefs of such devout orthodox as the Satmar.
    Last edited by MumblesBadly; 04-25-2019 at 01:10 PM.
    _____________________________________________
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I actually hope this [second impeachment] succeeds, because I want Trump put down politically like a sick, 14-year-old dog. ... I don't want him complicating the 2024 primary season. I just want him done.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Were Republicans cowardly or unethical not to go along with [convicting Trump in the second impeachment Senate trial]? No. The smart move was to reject it.

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    Notable discussion, but “not for the haters.”



    _____________________________________________
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I actually hope this [second impeachment] succeeds, because I want Trump put down politically like a sick, 14-year-old dog. ... I don't want him complicating the 2024 primary season. I just want him done.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Were Republicans cowardly or unethical not to go along with [convicting Trump in the second impeachment Senate trial]? No. The smart move was to reject it.

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    This short talk by Thomas Getman touches on the origins of Christian Zionism, as well as the evolving political alliance of Jewish Zionists with British and American Christian Zionists.

    The key thing to understand from this presentation is while early British Zionism supporters were driven mostly by colonial interests in the Middle East, American Christian Zionists were, and still are, motivated by their desire for the End Times to be realized as quickly as possible, which they believe will result in 2/3rds of Jews in Israel being killed when they don’t convert to Christianity.



    In fact, they believe that such Jews will deserve it because of their rejection of Jesus as the Messiah. Which is why they encourage and condone the governent of Israel being as belligerent as possible against its neighbors by settling and annexing land in Greater Israel (the greatest extent of the Biblical kingdom of Israel under King Solomon’s rule).

    So, if you care about keeping the Jewish people safe from the scurge of anti-Semitism, is it wise that Israel accept the political support of and align with the religiously psychopathic American Christian Zionists?

    Name:  8799C8AA-36DC-47D5-BFF6-743D6836F0E9.jpeg
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    _____________________________________________
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I actually hope this [second impeachment] succeeds, because I want Trump put down politically like a sick, 14-year-old dog. ... I don't want him complicating the 2024 primary season. I just want him done.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Were Republicans cowardly or unethical not to go along with [convicting Trump in the second impeachment Senate trial]? No. The smart move was to reject it.

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    You must have been giggling after the NYT anti-Semitic cartoon huh?

    https://www.dailywire.com/news/46501...ign=benshapiro

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    Trump wins again as the Failing NY Times makes themselves looks like the anti-Semites that they've been for a long time.

     
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      Zap_the_Fractions_Giraffe: what lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Trump wins again as the Failing NY Times makes themselves looks like the anti-Semites that they've been for a long time.
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      MumblesBadly: Druff’s response? “They’re a bunch of self-hating Jews.”

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    In case you missed it when it came out in 2010...

    Trailer:


    The full doc:
    _____________________________________________
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I actually hope this [second impeachment] succeeds, because I want Trump put down politically like a sick, 14-year-old dog. ... I don't want him complicating the 2024 primary season. I just want him done.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Were Republicans cowardly or unethical not to go along with [convicting Trump in the second impeachment Senate trial]? No. The smart move was to reject it.

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    A NY Times columnist wrote an editorial also stating that his own newspaper is anti-Semitic: https://www.houstonchronicle.com/opi...k-13804983.php

    The columnist states that he doesn't believe there is active anti-Semitism there, but that the NY Times has long been anti-Semitic dating back to WWII, and that in recent years, anti-Israel sentiment has evolved to be anti-Semitism, and it seems they don't even realize it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    A NY Times columnist wrote an editorial also stating that his own newspaper is anti-Semitic: https://www.houstonchronicle.com/opi...k-13804983.php

    The columnist states that he doesn't believe there is active anti-Semitism there, but that the NY Times has long been anti-Semitic dating back to WWII, and that in recent years, anti-Israel sentiment has evolved to be anti-Semitism, and it seems they don't even realize it.
    Bret Stephens is a neo-con. Of course he would claim that The New York Times is now anti-Semitic. The Iraq War was a foreign policy disaster of epic proportions, and the avoiding going to war with Iran, both neo-cons projects, are things the New York Times editors probably believe are reasonable notions.

    But at the same time, there is criticism from the left against The NYT that it is biased towards Israel regarding reporting on its on-going dealings with the Palestinians.



    Since both extremes thinks it’s biased against their point of view, it must be doing something right on this matter.
    _____________________________________________
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I actually hope this [second impeachment] succeeds, because I want Trump put down politically like a sick, 14-year-old dog. ... I don't want him complicating the 2024 primary season. I just want him done.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Were Republicans cowardly or unethical not to go along with [convicting Trump in the second impeachment Senate trial]? No. The smart move was to reject it.

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    Bro, for the 10000th time, there is no such thing as Palestinians.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OSA View Post
    Bro, for the 10000th time, there is no such thing as Palestinians.
    whatever bro, im pretty sure dj khaled exists

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    Quote Originally Posted by MumblesBadly View Post
    Notable discussion, but “not for the haters.”



    When I posted these vids, I had no knowledge of the second guest speaker in them, Gilad Atzmon. I’ve since gone downthe YouTube rabbit hole, as well as Wikipedia, to learn about him, after hearing him say in one of these vids, as a way of expressing heartfelt solidarity, that he had “finally” met his “rabbi” in Jaakov Shapiro.

    From Wikipedia:

    Atzmon was born in a secular Jewish family in Tel Aviv, Israel, Ashkenazi on his father's side,[15] and grew up in Jerusalem.[16] His great-grandmother was a victim of World War II, but he refuses to assign her death a special Holocaust status.[17] His grandfather was, he states, a commander in the paramilitary Irgun during the period of the British Mandate in Palestine, who subscribed to the doctrines of Ze'ev Jabotinsky, hated Germans, despised the British, was angry with Palestinians for living on land that God had given to Jews, and loathed Jewish leftists.[18] For Atzmon he was a 'veteran Zionist terrorist', and he himself grew up in what he describes as a 'happy childhood'[19] imbued with a spirit of 'militant enthusiasm.'[18]

    ...

    Atzmon was conscripted into the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) in June 1981. He began his service as a combat medic and participated in the 1982 Lebanon War. Aztmon was transferred to a position within the Israel Defense Forces Orchestra and spent most of his military service in the Israeli Air Force orchestra. He explains this as a reflection of the fact that '’(p)laying scales at the speed of light seemed to me far more important than killing Arabs in the name of Jewish suffering.’ Three weeks before the end of his military service, in the wake of the war, his troupe visited an IDF detention camp at Ansar, Lebanon. He later wrote that this was a 'life-changing' experience, coming into direct contact with the conditions of captured Palestinians, some locked in solitary confinement in what he took at first to be 1 metre square concrete boxes for guard dogs. During a guided tour, he states that, as he peered across the barbed wire at the POWs, he felt that ‘the place was a concentration camp. The inmates were the 'Jews', and I was nothing but a ‘Nazi’.'[18] After he was demobilised, he travelled to Europe in December 1984, living as a busker.[18]

    ...

    In 1994,[21] disenchanted with the implications of the Oslo Accords, Atzmon emigrated from Israel to London, attending the University of Essex,[22] earning a master's degree in Philosophy,[3], while landing a residency as musician at the Irish Black Lion pub in Kilburn.[18]

    He has lived subsequently in the UK,[4] becoming a British citizen in 2002[1] and renouncing his Israeli citizenship.[2] He has defined himself as "a British, Hebrew Speaking Palestinian"[23] and a "proud self-hating Jew".[24][25]
    Here is one of the shorter vids on his YouTube channel that would introduce a number of his most provocative ideas to folks who aren’t familiar with him.



    And one of him following the release of his first book, “The Wandering Who?”, put out by another YouTuber, which started his public career as a controversial philosopher/intellectual separate from his profession as a celebrated British jazz musician.



    Say what one might about his “self-hating” stance, Atzmon appears to be quite knowledgable on the topic. But also exhibits a kind fervent desire for self-identified Jews, and especially Zionists, which he wholehearted was in his youth, to self-reflect on their history and sense of identity.
    _____________________________________________
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I actually hope this [second impeachment] succeeds, because I want Trump put down politically like a sick, 14-year-old dog. ... I don't want him complicating the 2024 primary season. I just want him done.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Were Republicans cowardly or unethical not to go along with [convicting Trump in the second impeachment Senate trial]? No. The smart move was to reject it.

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    Here’s something about Gilad Atzmon that Druff and many others who post here would probably like: He despises identity politics.


    In this following clip from a talk he gave in Austin, Texas in 2014, he discusses this issue, focusing attention on how the “New Left” has abandoned its concern for working class folks and instead disastrously relies upon identity politics to try to win support from enough voters in response to the right being able to marshall the support of working class folks. Also, he discusses how the New Left uses an appeal to political correctness in concert with identity politics in an attempt to neuter free speech.



    That being said, Atzmon previously turned his inquisitive mind regarding identity politics towards a particular type of political identity personally relevant to his own experience, as well as many who share a similar ethnic history — Jewish identity. In this clip, he introdices his 2011 book on the topic, “The Wandering Who?”.



    Interesting stuff, folks. And I would love to hear comments from anyone here who has read it.
    Last edited by MumblesBadly; 05-05-2019 at 12:13 PM.
    _____________________________________________
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I actually hope this [second impeachment] succeeds, because I want Trump put down politically like a sick, 14-year-old dog. ... I don't want him complicating the 2024 primary season. I just want him done.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Were Republicans cowardly or unethical not to go along with [convicting Trump in the second impeachment Senate trial]? No. The smart move was to reject it.

  20. #60
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    Wise words spoken by the guy in this interview, who BTW is the author on the historical roots of Christian Zionism featured in a previous post.

    _____________________________________________
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I actually hope this [second impeachment] succeeds, because I want Trump put down politically like a sick, 14-year-old dog. ... I don't want him complicating the 2024 primary season. I just want him done.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Were Republicans cowardly or unethical not to go along with [convicting Trump in the second impeachment Senate trial]? No. The smart move was to reject it.

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