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Thread: Gordon Vayo Suing PokerStars for Confiscating 2017 SCOOP Winnings

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    Gordon Vayo Suing PokerStars for Confiscating 2017 SCOOP Winnings

    Gordon Vayo, most famously known for finishing as the runner-up in the 2016 World Series of Poker Main Event, has filed a lawsuit against PokerStars, alleging that the online poker site confiscated his winnings from a 2017 Spring Championship of Online Poker tournament after determining Vayo had been playing from the United States.

    Vayo, a poker pro with over $6.2 million in lifetime earnings, is claiming that PokerStars has denied him his winnings from his victory in Event #1 of PokerStars 2017 SCOOP. It was a score worth nearly $700,000. Vayo, who makes his primary residence in California, asserts that despite having played the event at his part-time Canadian residence, is being denied his earnings based on PokerStars suspicions he was actually breaking the Terms Of Service and playing the event from the United States.

    The lawsuit brought by Vayo against Rational Entertainment, the parent company of PokerStars, claims Fraud & Deceit, False Advertising and Money Had and Received, among other charges. All of the complaints are in an effort to recover the amount of $692,460 (plus 10% annual interest), which Vayo has been denied.
    https://www.pocketfives.com/articles...nnings-618797/
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    Interesting, wonder if he actually was. I know quite a few high stakes MTT players have quit playing stars in the US because you can't really win anything big and get it off the site anymore .

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Here's Charder's take on it:

    I have a feeling that Gordon was in Canada for that tournament and possibly VPNd either before or after that time and thats the issue. Stars is going to use that against him (that be broke TOS and can seize his account balance) even if he was physically in Canada for that 700k win.
    Source for above: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...0&postcount=59

    That's my belief, as well.

    Here's the actual lawsuit document: https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-co...oker-Stars.pdf


    Vayo is contending that he always uses a VPN, whether in the US or Canada. He claims he was in Canada while using it when he won that SCOOP event. He also claims that the VPN sometimes "malfunctions" and shows him in the US, when he really isn't.

    It does not seem that Vayo is contending that he NEVER played on Stars from the US using that VPN. He's just contending that he was in Canada for that particular win, and that Stars is forcing him to prove it, yet not accepting any kind of proof he presents.

    I think Vayo always used the VPN to play on Stars -- whether in Canada or in the US -- so as to not arouse suspicion why he was on it at some times but not others.

    Vayo seems like he's in the right here. The burden of proof should be on Stars to show that he was in the US when he won. If they cannot prove that, they need to pay him. Instead, it seems they put the burden of proof on Vayo to show them that he was really in Canada when he won, because they found (likely correct) evidence that he had played from the US at other times.

    Rather than simply admit they were suspicious but lacked proof against him, Stars seems to have taken the position that they detected him in the US during part of the SCOOP (even though he wasn't), and then demanded he prove otherwise.

    Pretty scummy.

     
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      sah_24: Ya this seems probably right, pretty ballsy to be playing on stars in HSMTTs from the US at this point imo

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    I give this lawsuit little chance of staying in that court (District Court, Central District of California). By motion of the Rational Group, it will either be kicked out by the Judge because the alleged wrongs occurred in Canada or because the PS terms of service apparently require the venue to be in the Isle of Mann.

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    Was there any mention by Stars of eventually awarding this prize money to the rest of the players? Surprised Detective Dan Druff hasn't asked any of these questions.


    PokerStars had Barry G sending out emails to buy $2 worth of play money chips. If that isn't the end of poker as I knew it, I don't know what is.

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    Diamond TheXFactor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I think Vayo always used the VPN to play on Stars -- whether in Canada or in the US -- so as to not arouse suspicion why he was on it at some times but not others.
    Isn't using a VPN a violation of PokerStars TOS?

    There are already a bunch of countries that are banned from playing for real money on PokerStars, such as the United States, Australia and Slovenia.

    If you try to play online poker for real money from these countries, the system blocks you. In the future, PokerStars will confiscate all your funds and give you a lifetime ban.

    Online poker was great back before 2011 when it was illegal.

    Fuck Daniel Negreanu and all other players who support the legalization of online poker.


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    Quote Originally Posted by TheXFactor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I think Vayo always used the VPN to play on Stars -- whether in Canada or in the US -- so as to not arouse suspicion why he was on it at some times but not others.
    Isn't using a VPN a violation of PokerStars TOS?

    There are already a bunch of countries that are banned from playing for real money on PokerStars, such as the United States, Australia and Slovenia.

    If you try to play online poker for real money from these countries, the system blocks you. In the future, PokerStars will confiscate all your funds and give you a lifetime ban.

    Online poker was great back before 2011 when it was illegal.

    Fuck Daniel Negreanu and all other players who support the legalization of online poker.

    Technically only 49 states are banned from Jokerstars.. Remember they allow NJ folks to play.. With the play pool liquidity issue with NV, DE and NJ now how long before Jokerstars does the smart thing and get a license and go head to head against WSOP.. We all know WSOP would get crushed ultimately..

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    “We cannot comment on pending litigation matters and our investigation into this particular matter is ongoing. However, as operator of the most regulated poker site in the world we believe that we have a duty to protect the integrity of the game and ensure we provide a safe and fair poker platform by enforcing our terms of service. We have paid out over half a billion dollars in tournaments winnings this year alone and will continue to implement rigorous security procedures to protect our profits.”
    https://www.onlinepokerreport.com/30...it-commentary/

    I edited the end in bold so it makes more sense
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    Looks like the Motion to Dismiss will be coming soon per a court filing today extending the time to July 5, 2018 for Rational Group to respond to the lawsuit:


    WHEREAS, Defendant [Rational Group] contends there is no personal jurisdiction over it in California and this is not the proper forum for this action and expressly preserves the
    right to file a motion to dismiss on those grounds

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    Thread name should probably now be changed to "Gordon Vayo not suing Poker Stars" because apparently after reading The Rational Group's Motion to Dismiss, Vayo and his lawyers bailed from the lawsuit and dismissed it before the Judge could grant the Motion.

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeD View Post
    Thread name should probably now be changed to "Gordon Vayo not suing Poker Stars" because apparently after reading The Rational Group's Motion to Dismiss, Vayo and his lawyers bailed from the lawsuit and dismissed it before the Judge could grant the Motion.
    Do you think he can re-file elsewhere successfully, such as federal court?

    Or is this pretty much game, set, match?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by JoeD View Post
    Thread name should probably now be changed to "Gordon Vayo not suing Poker Stars" because apparently after reading The Rational Group's Motion to Dismiss, Vayo and his lawyers bailed from the lawsuit and dismissed it before the Judge could grant the Motion.
    Do you think he can re-file elsewhere successfully, such as federal court?

    Or is this pretty much game, set, match?
    Per Federal Rule 41, he can re-file the lawsuit in the same Court or elsewhere since it was his first lawsuit regarding the matter and the case was voluntarily dismissed without prejudice. If he does the same thing a second time, then he's out of luck.

    Interesting - it's clear as of at least the time of dismissal (2 weeks ago) that they had no settlement because The Rational Group has indicated it's intent to seek an award of its legal fees and costs. Vayo also replaced his original lawyers, the folks who filed the Complaint riddled with typos.

    Unfortunately for Vayo, the case belongs in the Isle of Mann.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeD View Post
    Thread name should probably now be changed to "Gordon Vayo not suing Poker Stars" because apparently after reading The Rational Group's Motion to Dismiss, Vayo and his lawyers bailed from the lawsuit and dismissed it before the Judge could grant the Motion.
    Original lawyers did bail but -not- for reasons generally assumed, and Harder's and Druff's guesses were incorrect. Story on dismissal and alleged forgeries here:

    http://www.flushdraw.net/news/gordon...nce-moves-for/

     
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      JoeD: Awesome job.
      
      duped_samaritan: great work!
      
      Shizzmoney: good article

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Great article, as usual, Haley.

    For those who don't have time to read the whole thing (though I suggest you do, because it's interesting), it appears that Vayo had someone forge bank and phone company documents in order to "prove" he was in Canada.

    Shockingly, that forger somehow made contact with Pokerstars and spilled the beans. Not sure how or why this happened. Was the forger mad at Vayo? Haley's article describes that Pokerstars claimed a "third party" led them to the forger, but it's unclear why the third party did this, or why the forger cooperated. Perhaps Pokerstars threatened legal action against the forger unless he cooperated.

    Anyway, the forger told everything to Pokerstars, and Vayo's case came crashing down. Laughably, the forgery wasn't even very good, and some of the numbers on the bank statement didn't even add up properly, after various California transactions were photoshopped out.

    Over 10 years ago, I was playing on a network which no longer allowed US players (this was shortly after the UIGEA). The "skin" into the network was fully aware that I was still in the US, as I was friends with the owner. Even upper management of the poker portion of the network were aware I was bullshitting, and they were fine with it, because I was friendly with them. I was even listed as "Canadian" when I went to go play a live tournament associated with the site, and I had a forwarding mailbox in Montreal. (Nowadays this trick wouldn't work as an address, because it would come up as a forwarder when googled!) Anyway, when it came time to cash out, the cashier department wanted "proof' documents, which I hadn't considered, because I had been on there for years (when they accepted US players) and they never asked for it before. I went on to forge two documents, but I made sure that each and every detail was consistent and real-looking. I was able to get my money, and they never caught it. I quit playing on the network at that point, and decided I was permanently done with playing in jurisdictions in which I wasn't allowed.

    JoeD and other attorneys here: Do you think Pokerstars has a good chance of prevailing in their claim to recover their attorney's fees and other costs? I realize that Vayo falsified evidence, but could he claim that he simply did so in order to bolster his case, but was actually in Canada when he played on Pokerstars and simply couldn't prove it? Or would the forged evidence submitted to the court allow them to have a slam dunk to recover those hundreds of thousands of dollars in fees? And being a foreign company, could they use the US court system to compel him to actually pay?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Great article, as usual, Haley.

    For those who don't have time to read the whole thing (though I suggest you do, because it's interesting), it appears that Vayo had someone forge bank and phone company documents in order to "prove" he was in Canada.

    Shockingly, that forger somehow made contact with Pokerstars and spilled the beans. Not sure how or why this happened. Was the forger mad at Vayo? Haley's article describes that Pokerstars claimed a "third party" led them to the forger, but it's unclear why the third party did this, or why the forger cooperated. Perhaps Pokerstars threatened legal action against the forger unless he cooperated.

    Anyway, the forger told everything to Pokerstars, and Vayo's case came crashing down. Laughably, the forgery wasn't even very good, and some of the numbers on the bank statement didn't even add up properly, after various California transactions were photoshopped out.

    Over 10 years ago, I was playing on a network which no longer allowed US players (this was shortly after the UIGEA). The "skin" into the network was fully aware that I was still in the US, as I was friends with the owner. Even upper management of the poker portion of the network were aware I was bullshitting, and they were fine with it, because I was friendly with them. I was even listed as "Canadian" when I went to go play a live tournament associated with the site, and I had a forwarding mailbox in Montreal. (Nowadays this trick wouldn't work as an address, because it would come up as a forwarder when googled!) Anyway, when it came time to cash out, the cashier department wanted "proof' documents, which I hadn't considered, because I had been on there for years (when they accepted US players) and they never asked for it before. I went on to forge two documents, but I made sure that each and every detail was consistent and real-looking. I was able to get my money, and they never caught it. I quit playing on the network at that point, and decided I was permanently done with playing in jurisdictions in which I wasn't allowed.

    JoeD and other attorneys here: Do you think Pokerstars has a good chance of prevailing in their claim to recover their attorney's fees and other costs? I realize that Vayo falsified evidence, but could he claim that he simply did so in order to bolster his case, but was actually in Canada when he played on Pokerstars and simply couldn't prove it? Or would the forged evidence submitted to the court allow them to have a slam dunk to recover those hundreds of thousands of dollars in fees? And being a foreign company, could they use the US court system to compel him to actually pay?
    You should read the alleged forgery analysis as outlined in correspondence between the lawyers. Detective Druff would be quite proud. (Not sure if I can post it here?)

    Lesson to be learned apparently - do not hire a Canadian to do your bank fraud.

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    Wow. Vayo must feel like such a tool. If anyone comes across any response from him, please share.

    Shockingly, that forger somehow made contact with Pokerstars and spilled the beans. Not sure how or why this happened. Was the forger mad at Vayo? Haley's article describes that Pokerstars claimed a "third party" led them to the forger, but it's unclear why the third party did this, or why the forger cooperated. Perhaps Pokerstars threatened legal action against the forger unless he cooperated.
    Wouldn't be surprised at all if Vayo/holla@yoboy was not careful at all about who knew the details of his scheme.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeD View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Great article, as usual, Haley.

    For those who don't have time to read the whole thing (though I suggest you do, because it's interesting), it appears that Vayo had someone forge bank and phone company documents in order to "prove" he was in Canada.

    Shockingly, that forger somehow made contact with Pokerstars and spilled the beans. Not sure how or why this happened. Was the forger mad at Vayo? Haley's article describes that Pokerstars claimed a "third party" led them to the forger, but it's unclear why the third party did this, or why the forger cooperated. Perhaps Pokerstars threatened legal action against the forger unless he cooperated.

    Anyway, the forger told everything to Pokerstars, and Vayo's case came crashing down. Laughably, the forgery wasn't even very good, and some of the numbers on the bank statement didn't even add up properly, after various California transactions were photoshopped out.

    Over 10 years ago, I was playing on a network which no longer allowed US players (this was shortly after the UIGEA). The "skin" into the network was fully aware that I was still in the US, as I was friends with the owner. Even upper management of the poker portion of the network were aware I was bullshitting, and they were fine with it, because I was friendly with them. I was even listed as "Canadian" when I went to go play a live tournament associated with the site, and I had a forwarding mailbox in Montreal. (Nowadays this trick wouldn't work as an address, because it would come up as a forwarder when googled!) Anyway, when it came time to cash out, the cashier department wanted "proof' documents, which I hadn't considered, because I had been on there for years (when they accepted US players) and they never asked for it before. I went on to forge two documents, but I made sure that each and every detail was consistent and real-looking. I was able to get my money, and they never caught it. I quit playing on the network at that point, and decided I was permanently done with playing in jurisdictions in which I wasn't allowed.

    JoeD and other attorneys here: Do you think Pokerstars has a good chance of prevailing in their claim to recover their attorney's fees and other costs? I realize that Vayo falsified evidence, but could he claim that he simply did so in order to bolster his case, but was actually in Canada when he played on Pokerstars and simply couldn't prove it? Or would the forged evidence submitted to the court allow them to have a slam dunk to recover those hundreds of thousands of dollars in fees? And being a foreign company, could they use the US court system to compel him to actually pay?
    You should read the alleged forgery analysis as outlined in correspondence between the lawyers. Detective Druff would be quite proud. (Not sure if I can post it here?)

    Lesson to be learned apparently - do not hire a Canadian to do your bank fraud.
    Can you link me to this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by JoeD View Post

    You should read the alleged forgery analysis as outlined in correspondence between the lawyers. Detective Druff would be quite proud. (Not sure if I can post it here?)

    Lesson to be learned apparently - do not hire a Canadian to do your bank fraud.
    Can you link me to this?
    It looks like this guy linked the docs so you can seem them in his article on USBETS.com

    His twitter handle is @SpookyBugs


    https://www.usbets.com/gordon-vayo-p...ute-dismissed/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Great article, as usual, Haley.

    For those who don't have time to read the whole thing (though I suggest you do, because it's interesting), it appears that Vayo had someone forge bank and phone company documents in order to "prove" he was in Canada.

    Shockingly, that forger somehow made contact with Pokerstars and spilled the beans. Not sure how or why this happened. Was the forger mad at Vayo? Haley's article describes that Pokerstars claimed a "third party" led them to the forger, but it's unclear why the third party did this, or why the forger cooperated. Perhaps Pokerstars threatened legal action against the forger unless he cooperated.

    Anyway, the forger told everything to Pokerstars, and Vayo's case came crashing down. Laughably, the forgery wasn't even very good, and some of the numbers on the bank statement didn't even add up properly, after various California transactions were photoshopped out.

    Over 10 years ago, I was playing on a network which no longer allowed US players (this was shortly after the UIGEA). The "skin" into the network was fully aware that I was still in the US, as I was friends with the owner. Even upper management of the poker portion of the network were aware I was bullshitting, and they were fine with it, because I was friendly with them. I was even listed as "Canadian" when I went to go play a live tournament associated with the site, and I had a forwarding mailbox in Montreal. (Nowadays this trick wouldn't work as an address, because it would come up as a forwarder when googled!) Anyway, when it came time to cash out, the cashier department wanted "proof' documents, which I hadn't considered, because I had been on there for years (when they accepted US players) and they never asked for it before. I went on to forge two documents, but I made sure that each and every detail was consistent and real-looking. I was able to get my money, and they never caught it. I quit playing on the network at that point, and decided I was permanently done with playing in jurisdictions in which I wasn't allowed.

    JoeD and other attorneys here: Do you think Pokerstars has a good chance of prevailing in their claim to recover their attorney's fees and other costs? I realize that Vayo falsified evidence, but could he claim that he simply did so in order to bolster his case, but was actually in Canada when he played on Pokerstars and simply couldn't prove it? Or would the forged evidence submitted to the court allow them to have a slam dunk to recover those hundreds of thousands of dollars in fees? And being a foreign company, could they use the US court system to compel him to actually pay?

    Pokerstars/Rational will get its costs (filing fees, copy fees, etc) awarded for sure. As for legal fees, I'd have to read more and think about it, including the fine print in the Pokerstars TOS, and I don't have the time right now to do it.


    I've never appeared before this particular Federal Judge (actually a Magistrate Judge), but most Federal Judges with lifetime appointments do not take kindly to forged evidence, though the forged documents were never actually filed by Vayo with the Court - just his Complaint (allegations) and the Opposition to the Motion to Dismiss with legal arguments were filed.

    Pokerstars/Rational Group actually offered to drop the whole mess and not make public the forgery claims if Vayo dismissed his lawsuit with prejudice (which means cannot be re-filed). Instead, Vayo's original lawyers opted to voluntarily dismiss the lawsuit without prejudice and ran away as fast as they could.

     
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      duped_samaritan: I appreciate you sharing your opinion
      
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeD View Post


    I've never appeared before this particular Federal Judge (actually a Magistrate Judge), but most Federal Judges with lifetime appointments do not take kindly to forged evidence, though the forged documents were never actually filed by Vayo with the Court - just his Complaint (allegations) and the Opposition to the Motion to Dismiss with legal arguments were filed.
    This is a good point. I was rushed to get the piece out and there was/is so so so much of interest here. Here's the relevant excerpt:

    Vayo relied on the forged evidence in his Complaint, claiming that he “provided evidence showing that he was in Canada during the entirety of his play in the SCOOP tournament” and, therefore, REEL had no right to freeze his account. Id. ¶ 10. Not yet knowing that Vayo’s “evidence” was fraudulent, REEL filed a Motion to Dismiss for Lack of Personal Jurisdiction and, in the alternative, Improper Forum. Dkt. 11. Vayo’s Opposition to the Motion to Dismiss attached and relied upon his December 4, 2017 letter which had attached the forged records—though (in retrospect, tellingly) the forged records themselves were omitted.

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