Results 1 to 19 of 19

Thread: WSOP Bracelet Bounty event was full of fail

  1. #1
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
    Reputation
    10110
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    54,627
    Blog Entries
    2
    Load Metric
    65716094

    WSOP Bracelet Bounty event was full of fail

    There were two "experimental" events this year at the WSOP. One was the $1500 Ante-Only NL event, which was a regular bracelet event, and was met with very positive response from the community. I agree that it was a great event, and I look forward to playing it again next year.

    The other was the Bracelet Bounty event, which was a non-bracelet, 1-day event (confused yet?) taking place right before the Main Event. It featured $500 bounties paid for knocking out any WSOP bracelet winner.

    I played it because I figured I would be able to use the fact that people would be calling off light in the hopes of winning the bounty, and I could chip up early.

    Turned out that I didn't think this one through enough.

    Before I get to the play of the event itself, I want to address the inexcusable logistical failures that occurred with this event. Brandon predicted before the event (he ended up oversleeping and not playing) that it would be a complete mess. He was right, but there was really no excuse for the various failures that occurred.

    Failure #1: They didn't predict they would get a large field for this event. WHAT?! It's only $560, it's right before the Main Event, it's during the post-4th-of-July weekend, and it appeals to people who failed to satellite into the Main. Plus the $500 bounties likely attracted people, too. According to a dealer, they expected 500 people. Instead, they got well over 1000, and were ill-prepared.

    Failure #2: They used the same chips as they do for their 2pm deepstack event. When the field was larger than expected, guess what? They didn't have enough chips for the 2pm deepstack and had to pause the event to do premature color-ups! Embarrassing!

    Failure #3: They cheaped out on dealers. Assuming that there would only be 500 players, they told most dealers to show up at 1pm. They actually had to delay people from registering while they were out of dealers.

    Failure #4: Not enough tables. They did not allocate enough tables for the event, so even when the dealers showed up at 1pm, they were still not letting certain people register until more players busted.

    Failure #5: Starting table changes with poor communication. I showed up to the Amazon room where I was assigned, and it was locked. Finally I tracked down a security guard at a side door, who told me to go to the Pavilion. There was no direction on what to do from there, and I had to track down a floorman to find out where to go.

    Failure #6: Late registrants were being assigned to existing tables, so they kept showing up to our full table and argued with the dealer that they should be able to sit!

    Failure #7: Bracelet winners had to self-identify. There was no automatic mechanism in the system to identify bracelet winners, even though Harrah's has that on file. They were just too lazy to program it in.

    I'll get into the actual play of the event in the next post.

  2. #2
    Gold Bootsy Collins's Avatar
    Reputation
    162
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Orange County, CA
    Posts
    2,422
    Load Metric
    65716094
    Sounds like a normal day at a Harrahs shindig.

    Quote Originally Posted by RealTalk View Post
    Lol at the amount of effort that druff's friends have to exert trying to do an internet podcast without offending him.

  3. #3
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
    Reputation
    10110
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    54,627
    Blog Entries
    2
    Load Metric
    65716094
    As I mentioned earlier, I assumed that this would be a fun event to play because people would be gunning for me, and were willing to put me all in with marginal holdings, and I'd have to decide whether or not they really had something or were just looking for the $500 bounty.

    I was wrong in several ways.

    First off, this event had a bad structure. You start with 20k in chips, but the levels move up every 30 minutes, and they skip a lot of levels. For example, I was playing 600/1200 with 200 antes before 4 hours had passed. At 10-handed tables, that makes your M less than 6 if you still have the 20k starting stack.

    So how does this affect the bounty situation?

    It actually does a lot.

    Basically, bounties are best to have on you when there is a structure that affords a lot of post-flop play, but people are willing to knowingly make bad calls in the effort to win the bounty. This is an advantage to the player with the bounty on his head because a third party (in this case, the prize pool) is compensating the player for making these bad calls with the bounty reward.

    Let's take an extreme example the other way.

    Let's take a good structure tournament -- the WSOP Main Event -- and let's say there was a ridiculous bounty put on me of $1,000,000.

    It would be correct for everyone to keep taking shots at me, even if their chance to win the hand was very small. This would give me a big advantage, as I could simply stick to only putting my chips in very good spots, and know that people would call off against me with very weak holdings (provided they had me outchipped), thus making it easy for me to chip up provided I hit some big hands. My chances of doing well in the tournament would go way up in such a situation.

    Now let's go back to the actual situation -- a $500 bounty on a $560 tournament, where the structure sucks.

    When the structure sucks, the tight player suffers. You have to constantly be in pots and attack blinds/antes in order to keep up with the rapidly escalating structure. You can't play small-ball. You can't wait for big hands and great spots.

    One weapon you have in this spot is the all-in. You can go all-in preflop if short stacked (or at least short compared to the blinds) and people will fold most hands to you, thus allowing you to steal the blinds/antes without contest. This weapon is severely lessened when there is an extra incentive for people to call you -- a bounty that is nearly as big as the buyin! Thus, my ability to steal blinds/antes, especially at a 10-handed table, is reduced when I am at least somewhat short chipped. I am left with the unpalatable choice of either waiting for big hands (or at least hands with good showdown value preflop, such as Ax or pairs), or shoving in to "keep up with the blinds" and knowing I'll probably get called with marginal hands that are still ahead of mine (but would have otherwise folded if I wasn't the one with the bounty). So that's what happened. I had just 16k, picked up Jh9h, got all-in isolated by AJo, and lost the hand. You can argue that AJ probably was calling me anyway, but I'm sure there was a much wider range of hands that people are willing to call off 16k to knock out the bounty guy.

    Now, if the structure was better and I could wait for bigger hands, this would be an advantage, as I could get people to call my preflop shoves with big hands. However, with a bad structure, I don't have the luxury of waiting for big hands, and my ability to steal with not-so-big hands is reduced thanks to the bounty.

    Sadly, I had a lot of big hands (both preflop and postflop) in the first 30-45 minutes, but got little action, because that first table was full of old nits who didn't seem to care about the bounty, and just didn't want to shoot off 20k worth of chips in the first hour.

    Needless to say, I won't be playing this again next year.


  4. #4
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
    Reputation
    10110
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    54,627
    Blog Entries
    2
    Load Metric
    65716094
    Oh, also, chipping up early isn't worth nearly as much in an event with a lousy structure. That's another reason the bounty doesn't help me much, even at the beginning when the blinds are lower.

  5. #5
    Platinum
    Reputation
    2185
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    3,577
    Load Metric
    65716094
    How many other bracelet winners did you see, and if they made a better structure and made it two days would it be worth playing?

    Would it be worth playing if it was right at the start of the WSOP directly after the casino employees event?
    When faced with a difficult decision, ask yourself "What would Micon do?", then do the opposite.

    PFA Rookie of the Year Awards
    2012: The Templar (unknown)
    2013: Jasep $5000+
    2015: Micon's gofundme legal defense $3k begging for 100k:
    2018: 4Dragons
    2019: Dutch Boyd: Mike Postle
    2020: Covid19
    2021: SMIFlorida and some sort of shit coins for $50k
    2022: BDubs leaks chums club info
    2023: 22nd Feb 4th Dec Youtube channels removed
    2024: Dustin Morgan wins Chrissy's $1000 contest

  6. #6
    Gold Shizzmoney's Avatar
    Reputation
    457
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    2,451
    Blog Entries
    1
    Load Metric
    65716094
    Oh, also, chipping up early isn't worth nearly as much in an event with a lousy structure.
    Running like a god mid-to-late, is.

  7. #7
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
    Reputation
    10110
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    54,627
    Blog Entries
    2
    Load Metric
    65716094
    Quote Originally Posted by zealanddonk View Post
    How many other bracelet winners did you see, and if they made a better structure and made it two days would it be worth playing?

    Would it be worth playing if it was right at the start of the WSOP directly after the casino employees event?
    Doesn't really matter when it is. The structure sucks and being one of the bounty people was a disadvantage.

    They only got 12 bracelet winners to my knowledge. I only saw Ylon Schwartz, and I think Brian Lemke was there too.

  8. #8
    Bronze Cokehead's Avatar
    Reputation
    74
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    374
    Load Metric
    65716094
    If you only had 16k I would be calling off with all kinds of crap if the bounty was 500 on a 560 event.

    Surprised you didn't get snapped by Q3o and busted by queen high.

  9. #9
    Silver ThreeBet's Avatar
    Reputation
    160
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    786
    Load Metric
    65716094
    Name:  al_bundy_33.jpg
Views: 1015
Size:  49.2 KB

  10. #10
    Gold Bootsy Collins's Avatar
    Reputation
    162
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Orange County, CA
    Posts
    2,422
    Load Metric
    65716094
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by zealanddonk View Post
    How many other bracelet winners did you see, and if they made a better structure and made it two days would it be worth playing?

    Would it be worth playing if it was right at the start of the WSOP directly after the casino employees event?
    Doesn't really matter when it is. The structure sucks and being one of the bounty people was a disadvantage.

    They only got 12 bracelet winners to my knowledge. I only saw Ylon Schwartz, and I think Brian Lemke was there too.
    Who in the bloody hell is Brian Lemke????
    Quote Originally Posted by RealTalk View Post
    Lol at the amount of effort that druff's friends have to exert trying to do an internet podcast without offending him.

  11. #11
    Diamond
    Reputation
    690
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    6,030
    Load Metric
    65716094
    All you had to do when you arrived to a table was say

    ITS TODD MUTHA FUCKING WITTELES


    And then you would have gotten major action.

  12. #12
    PFA Emeritus Crowe Diddly's Avatar
    Reputation
    1954
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    6,682
    Load Metric
    65716094
    Quote Originally Posted by Bootsy Collins View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post

    Doesn't really matter when it is. The structure sucks and being one of the bounty people was a disadvantage.

    They only got 12 bracelet winners to my knowledge. I only saw Ylon Schwartz, and I think Brian Lemke was there too.
    Who in the bloody hell is Brian Lemke????
    He's the guy there that wasn't Ylon Schwartz.

  13. #13
    Gold Bootsy Collins's Avatar
    Reputation
    162
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Orange County, CA
    Posts
    2,422
    Load Metric
    65716094
    Quote Originally Posted by Crowe Diddly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bootsy Collins View Post

    Who in the bloody hell is Brian Lemke????
    He's the guy there that wasn't Ylon Schwartz.
    Was Diego Cordovez so busy today that he could not make it?
    Quote Originally Posted by RealTalk View Post
    Lol at the amount of effort that druff's friends have to exert trying to do an internet podcast without offending him.

  14. #14
    PFA Emeritus Crowe Diddly's Avatar
    Reputation
    1954
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    6,682
    Load Metric
    65716094
    BTW, I looked up Brian Lemke, and I still don't know who he is.

  15. #15
    Diamond mulva's Avatar
    Reputation
    541
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    6,957
    Blog Entries
    4
    Load Metric
    65716094
    Quote Originally Posted by Crowe Diddly View Post
    BTW, I looked up Brian Lemke, and I still don't know who he is.

    Name:  lemke.jpg
Views: 816
Size:  13.4 KB

    also. how bad could it have been? you got to tell 9 others at ur table you were a wsop bracelet winner and show off ur bracelet.

  16. #16
    Gold Steve-O's Avatar
    Reputation
    36
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    1,812
    Load Metric
    65716094
    Didn't you look at the structure before you entered? It was pretty clear a 1-day tournament at the WSOP was going to be an all-in-fest after a few hours. The tournamnet didn't have a bad structure, it had a typical 1-day tournament structure. You should have realized going in that you were going to be in push/fold mode most of the time. Railing on Harrahs for the structure is silly, and it seems like you simply didn't do your homework on the tournament. Anyone whose ever played a daily could tell you what was going to happen. Obviously the logistics were a bit of a mess and that is their fault, but not liking the structure is 100% on you unless they dramatically changed just before or during the event.
    I write things about poker at my Poker Blog and elsewhere on the Internets

  17. #17
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
    Reputation
    10110
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    54,627
    Blog Entries
    2
    Load Metric
    65716094
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve-O View Post
    Didn't you look at the structure before you entered? It was pretty clear a 1-day tournament at the WSOP was going to be an all-in-fest after a few hours. The tournamnet didn't have a bad structure, it had a typical 1-day tournament structure. You should have realized going in that you were going to be in push/fold mode most of the time. Railing on Harrahs for the structure is silly, and it seems like you simply didn't do your homework on the tournament. Anyone whose ever played a daily could tell you what was going to happen. Obviously the logistics were a bit of a mess and that is their fault, but not liking the structure is 100% on you unless they dramatically changed just before or during the event.
    I knew the structure but didn't think about how it related to the bounty situation until I was already experiencing it.

    I am not railing on Harrah's for the structure. I was simply complaining about why it wasn't good for me.

    That's actually why I separated it into two posts -- one complaining about the logistics and one talking about the play and why I felt the bounty situation was a disadvantage.

  18. #18
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
    Reputation
    10110
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    54,627
    Blog Entries
    2
    Load Metric
    65716094
    I should also point out that the WSOP is generally terrible at handling changes in table assignments.

    They have improved this year in that they have been a lot better at sticking to the table assignments on your seat card, but yesterday proved that they are still awful at redirecting people to the right place.

    When they change the table assignments (and especially the room), they should have clear signs and several people assigned specifically to guide players to the right spot. Every year they just leave people wandering around, trying to figure out what to do.

    In 2010 or 2011, this happened and I lost chips because I showed up to the event exactly at noon, but lost about 10 minutes trying to figure out where to go. I demanded a full starting stack, and they refused to give it to me, claiming I was late. I told them that my only responsibility is to show up at my assigned place by 12pm, and if their own failures caused me to take another 10 minutes to find my new table, I should not be penalized. They actually backed down and gave me a full stack.

    The general consensus from the dealers yesterday was that this year's WSOP probably had the least amount of fail of any year since Harrah's took over, but this event was an exception and was terribly run.

  19. #19
    Bronze Sirens's Avatar
    Reputation
    6
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    111
    Load Metric
    65716094
    Quote Originally Posted by Bootsy Collins View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post

    Doesn't really matter when it is. The structure sucks and being one of the bounty people was a disadvantage.

    They only got 12 bracelet winners to my knowledge. I only saw Ylon Schwartz, and I think Brian Lemke was there too.
    Who in the bloody hell is Brian Lemke????

    Brian Lemke aka "ShipThePerc" is Justin shronk aka esOterix's cousin .

    Some more notes on brian ,Got your pen and papper In hand?

    Fell In uncovered manhole and broke some bones
    Sued state
    won
    got paid
    But took forever before funds was in hand.
    Was on house arrest pretty much the whole time he was sueing the state .
    Friend backed him online he then turned pro .
    Bought drug dealers house at police auction .
    wsop braclet winner.


    Your Welcome in advance .
    Last edited by Sirens; 07-07-2012 at 07:20 PM.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 54
    Last Post: 10-09-2018, 12:43 PM
  2. Event "Bracelet Bounty" July 6 $560 NL Holdem
    By Dan Druff in forum 2012 World Series of Poker
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 07-06-2012, 04:01 PM
  3. Men in the WSOP Ladies Event
    By Dan Druff in forum Flying Stupidity
    Replies: 56
    Last Post: 06-30-2012, 08:08 PM
  4. V SELBST BUSTS OUT 4TH IN WSOP EVENT #2
    By Rollo Tomasi in forum Flying Stupidity
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 05-31-2012, 05:31 AM