Yes. And the total amount owed.Originally Posted by derSchwartz 2 + 2
Yes. And the total amount owed.
Last edited by Towerflower; 08-08-2015 at 02:13 PM.
I wasn't affected from Lock Pokers scandal as I took all the warning signs serious and stayed away. Unfortunately many people either weren't aware of how bad Lock Poker was as a site or naive and played anyways. Its a shame for all, but mainly the victims that weren't aware and figured that they were a legit company because Cardplayer said so and other reputable poker media sources.
Id love to see them brought to justice.
I have the knowledge to bring them to justice. To bring them to justice is only limited by the costs.
Only info with an exactly address will be forwarded to the Public Prosecutor.
You can continue send your info until the end of 12 August.
If you sent me some of the court documents (so I can verify that this case does indeed exist), and were willing to identify yourself publicly, I'd be happy to report on it at FlushDraw. I don't know how successful you'll be though I'm certainly on the side of you and all other Lock victims. DM me if interested and I'll send you an address you can forward any relative court docs and info to.
-- Haley
Criminal cases usually have 3 stages:
1) Police and or 2) Public Prosecutor -> 3) Court
I am in stage 1) and 2) and therefore no court documents available yet.
Sounds good. Let us know how it goes.
UPDATE
All those deposited to Lock Poker using Neteller or Skrill have now the possibility to send a complaint to Samuel.Imbrey@financial-ombudsman.org.uk using the reference: (Our ref: 17190148) and
1) Demand to reverse the transaction(s)
based on:
Skrill
11.2 It is strictly forbidden to make payments to or to receive payments from persons or entities offering illegal gambling services, including (but not limited to) illegal sports betting, casino games and poker games. We may suspend or terminate your Skrill Account at any time or refuse to execute or reverse a transaction if we believe that you directly or indirectly use or have used your Skrill Account for or in connection with illegal gambling transactions.
-> Lock Poker is an illegal gambling operation, because:
- it is illegal to run the operation out of San Quiricio DŽOrcia/Italy without having an Italian gambling license and without register the company there.
- it is illegal to misappropriate player funds
2) Demand that they report Lock Poker to the relevant law enforcement agency
based on:
Skrill
11.4. It is strictly forbidden to use your Skrill Account for any illegal purposes including but not limited to fraud and money laundering. We will report any suspicious activity to the relevant law enforcement agency. You are prohibited from using your Skrill Account in an attempt to abuse, exploit or circumvent the usage restrictions imposed by a merchant on the services it provides.
3) Demand indemnification for your losses from Neteller and Skrill because they did not fulfil the legally binding agreement
based on:
- NETELLER
12. ACCOUNT RESTRICTIONS
ii. using the NETELLER Service for any purpose contrary to laws, statutes or regulations applicable to you, including without limitation, those concerning money laundering, fraud, criminal activity, financial services or consumer protection;
iv. using the NETELLER Service for any Prohibited Transaction;
16.4 Notwithstanding the above, we may, at our discretion, suspend or limit access to your Account (including without limitation, placing a hold on funds in your Account, limiting your ability to make Transactions on your Account, suspending or terminating your Card, and limiting your payment options) or close your Account, at any time, without notice, in any of the following circumstances:
i. you breach any of these Terms of Use;
iii. if we have reasonable grounds to believe that your Account has been used in connection with a Prohibited Transaction;
iv. receipt into your Account of suspected fraudulent funds;
ix. if we believe your Account or Card has been used or allegedly used, or may be used, in, or to facilitate, any fraud, financial-crime related activity or any other illegal activity;
xiv. to comply with money laundering or terrorist financing investigations or prohibitions issued by any government authorities, agencies or commissions.
- SKRILL
11.1 It is strictly forbidden to send or receive payments as consideration for the sale or supply of: Unlicensed or illegal lotteries or gambling services(including without limitation the use of or participation in illegal gambling houses).
11.2 It is strictly forbidden to make payments to or to receive payments from persons or entities offering illegal gambling services, including (but not limited to) illegal sports betting, casino games and poker games. We may suspend or terminate your Skrill Account at any time or refuse to execute or reverse a transaction if we believe that you directly or indirectly use or have used your Skrill Account for or in connection with illegal gambling transactions.
11.4. It is strictly forbidden to use your Skrill Account for any illegal purposes including but not limited to fraud and money laundering. We will report any suspicious activity to the relevant law enforcement agency. You are prohibited from using your Skrill Account in an attempt to abuse, exploit or circumvent the usage restrictions imposed by a merchant on the services it provides
Last edited by Towerflower; 09-29-2015 at 12:39 PM.
Can someone please post in the Lock Poker payout scam: thread and ask IHasTehNutz to post the data for ROW Skrill and Neteller, as the the link for
FULL PENDING 'ROW METHOD' PLAYER REPORT (73 players owed $432,646.29):
https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/...b7&oe=54F57EAA
is not working any more?
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=2926Updated at 10pm EST on October 19th, 2014
***PLEASE NOTE: If you are a website referencing this report, please link back to this post/thread! Thank you!
TOTAL PLAYERS: 394
TOTAL PAYOUTS OWED: $941,270.96
48 players paid from this report since 11-1-13:
https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/...55934617_n.jpg
NEW FOR THIS REPORT: Remaining player balances
205 players report $2,236,160.52 in remaining balances on Lock Poker. This amount does not include their pending payouts.
FULL PENDING 'WESTERN UNION' PLAYER REPORT (181 players owed $242,936.53):
https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.n...92924421_o.jpg
FULL PENDING 'CHECKS' PLAYER REPORT (137 players owed $264,137.01):
https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/...33217215_o.jpg
FULL PENDING 'ROW METHOD' PLAYER REPORT (73 players owed $432,646.29):
https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/...b7&oe=54F57EAA
FULL PENDING 'PAY-TO-CARD' PLAYER REPORT (3 players owed $1,551.13):
https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/...5c&oe=54EED7C0
UPDATE
On 28th January 2016 at 11.00 will be held a hearing before the Court in Siena/Italy about the continuation of the proceedings against Jennifer Larson.
Message to the participants of the illegal operation Lock Poker: Brendon Young, Liezl Tengco, Shane Bridges, Gerard Poltorak, Eric Lynch, Bryce Geoffrey, Jim Erwood, Melanie Weisner, Anette Obrestad.
participant = continued to advertise or work for Lock, while it was clear that player funds are misappropriated = ponzi scheme
I have an amicable solution for you(except Larson, as legal action already has started):
Lock Poker owe me $127,000 and I have screenshots and email conversation with Geoffrey to prove this.
$127,000 divided with 10(including Larson) = $12,700 per participant.
You have the possibility to give me this amount in Bitcoins until 28th January 2016 and the case is finished for you. I am the only one with sufficient proof/info who is going after you and if I stop doing this, you are out. So it is up to you how you wish to proceed.
After 28th January 2016, I will initiate legal action against those who are not willing to take my amicable offer. I will be then also so kindly to publicise all the info(address, etc.) I have and will get about you, so other victims can demand their money directly from you and based on the civil laws of the relevant jurisdictions for the next up to 30 years at any time.
I also know that most of you did not declare your income properly and you might be then also held accountable for the criminal offence of tax evasion.
So if they pay you no more lawsuit? except against larson?
I know that some people disagree with your tactics, but I applaud you for putting such effort into going after them.
I don't fault you for only looking out for your own money. You aren't a superhero trying to right all wrongs. You are a victim, and are trying to recover damages against you.
The tax angle is an interesting one, especially for Lock conspirators living in the US. Normally I think it would be a supreme dick move to report someone for tax evasion, especially a site pro. However, in this case I don't blame you. All of the people you listed either directly engaged in the fraud, knowingly covered it up, or continued to knowingly promote the scam despite holding sufficient evidence that players were being cheated. As far as I'm concerned, any legal trouble coming their way -- whether directly or indirectly as a result of their participation in Lock -- is deserved
This is different than the pros representing Full Tilt, as the vast majority of them were kept in the dark and had no idea what was going on.
Good luck.
Correct. Is something wrong with that?
Thank you Todd. I appreciate you and your forum, as you stand on the right site.
I don't care at all what others think about my tactics. I know that without me, my persistence and willingness to put a lot of effort and money into this case, nothing would have happen yet.
Lock Poker would might still run and it was me who brought Stacktrace N.V. into bankruptcy and loss of their license and no one else.
Sorry, maybe I missed something. Do other people expect from me that I spend 100s of hours of my time, pay the investigation, legal action and litigation costs from my pocket and the others can then simply come and join the litigation proceedings for free?
I offered September 2014 to other victims to organize legal action for them if they are willing to contribute a small percentage of what is owed and no one had interest. Therefore, 99% of the victims should be fine with what I am doing, as they had anyway no interest to go after their money.
Good luck to the "by itself" believer group.
Can you explain how you caused Stracktrace to lose their license and go bankrupt?
Actually, upon looking at your list of players again, I think that Melanie Weisner should be left off the list.
As you've seen, I have criticized her aggressively, and she hates me for it.
However, she wasn't in Lock management, nor was she the main "face" of Lock Poker.
Annette Obrestad is more understandable, as she was directly used in Lock promotions more often, and is a bigger name in poker than Melanie.
While the anger at Melanie is justified (especially because she actively read 2+2 and knew VERY WELL what was going on at Lock), I wouldn't include her in this legal action.
Towerflower, I hope you are successful in recovering any funds from the Lock owners, or any processors if they scammed you. I have a few questions, and comments about some of the people or processors you are going after.
Questions:
How much did you deposit before building that into a $127K roll on that site? Did you win a large MTT, or were you playing high stakes cash games? were you able to make any successful cash-outs before losing the remaining funds due to Lock going broke, or just closing up the site and stealing the remaining player funds? Did you win this money and leave most of it on the site for a long time, or did you immediately try to withdraw after winning? Did you ever make a deposit based on any of the 9 site pros you threatened marketing efforts after it was known my you that the site was shady or going broke?
Random Comments:
Don't understand the post where you talk about getting refund from a payment processor. If a player violated wire act laws to send $$ to a gambling site, how can they go after the processor who assisted in that transaction (seems like player is guilty, although I doubt ever held to same criminal standard as the bank, or processor by DOJ considering DOJ treated the players as victims after black Friday). weren't many legit processors also scammed by being told the money was actually for some bogus online purchase, not gambling (that's what happened in the Pokerstars and Fulltilt cases in many instance). Obviously some, and maybe most processers were in on it, and knew exactly where the money was really going, but played along to make huge profits. But if the processer didn't steal the money, and sent it on to Lock, and Lock is broke, how would that processer every get the money they passed on to Lock back. Are you saying they now are on the hook to pay Lock's debt to the player? My point is, the player knew they were violating wire act also, so seems shady to go after the processor just because Lock is broke, unless that processer is holding the funds and stole the money from the player.
I don't agree with your threats and logic of going after 9 site pros for $12,700, putting them just as guilty as the site owner Jen Larson. Doubt any of those site pros stole any money from you (I agree they were acting shady promoting a site they knew was in trouble). Never wanted to see any site pro on any site I ever played on since I'd rather the site use marketing $$ to either lower rake, or offer promotions. But to consider that each of the 9 pros you named owes you 10% of what Lock owes you and Jen owes the remaining 10% just seems illogical.
a few players in my region used to wear Lock patches at tourneys I played in. One told me that if I deposited, he got some royalty from any rake I generate. He told me if I deposited $100, he'd ship me $100 so I'd be free rolling, assuming I was able to cash out $100. So I guess Lock had lots of affiliates besides the 9 named. This was long before any news of Locks problems surfaced, and these guys stopped wearing their patches after that, so clearly did nothing shady.
Glad I never took my poker buddy up on his offer (I probably would of donked off that small amount before building up the account large enough to make a cash-out anyway).
Of the 10 people he listed, only two (Annette Obrestad and Melanie Weisner) were site pros.
The other 8 were all in Lock ownership or management.
According to US law, players are not guilty of a crime by depositing and playing on an illegal poker site, even if doing so knowingly. That's why I had no problem appearing on national TV and admitting to doing so. The crimes were on the end of the payment processors and online poker sites, even if they were otherwise honest.
Regarding the payment processors, once they were informed what was going on with Lock, they shouldn't have continued to process deposits. Some actually did shut Lock off for deposits (such as Skrill). The ones that didn't were guilty of being accomplices to the theft, and deserve anything they get.
Weisner is my favourite pro as she did not only take money to represent/advertise a ponzi scheme, but also felt the obligation to financial benefit from the victims and offered expedited payouts for a provision. This is at least what I read on 2+2.
From a logical point of view, if she was able to get money while others were not, then it was not processing issues, was it? And if she is so helpful to victims, why not simply give me $12,700 and that's it? But if she feel innocent, she can explain this at any time.
I can initiate a criminal and or civil lawsuit against every accomplice and demand full indemnification. In most cases I can add my claim directly to the criminal lawsuit. How could the court in country X determine 1) how much the total amount owed/damage is and 2) how much of this amount the sued accomplice has caused? This is not possible!
But just for fun, let us do a fictitious calculation for the case that a participant of an illegal operation is only liable for the damage caused directly by him:
- A court can not read forums and then say "O.k, we have 20 participants", therefore, a court can only consider participants who are sentenced for participation in the Lock Poker ponzi scheme.
- Let us assume I sue now Weisner and she will get sentenced. At the time when she would get sentenced(if), the court would be only aware of two accomplices, her and Larson.
- The court would have to estimate how much is owed in total and then establish how much of that amount is caused by each of them. Let us assume the court conclude the total amount owed is $15 millions and Weisner caused 10% = $1,5 millions and Larson 90% = $13,5 millions.
Many of you might will now say what, how caused Weisner $1,5 millions?
One problem is that the court has only 2 accomplices and must somehow divide the amount. Would it sound fair if you have 2 participants, that one caused only 1% and the other 99%? For sure not.
The other point is that in criminal law it plays indeed a role who was the manager/head and how long and how intensive someone participated, but in causing the damage we have 3 sections:
a) Management, software, IT
b) Representants/pros, affiliates, advertisement
c) Payment service provider
-> if a) do not exist, b) and c) can not cause any damage, if b) do not excist, a) and c) can not cause any damage, etc.
-> each section is equal important in order to enable damage and therefore similar liable in relation to claims for compensation
For those who think I simply say I did not know anything and that's it for me:
The EU laws say that you are an accomplice from the point when you must know(based on the circumstances) what was going on and I am pretty sure that most jurisdictions in this world have the same rule.
When I was a child, I learned 2 things:
1) Went along -> hang with
2) Ignorance is no excuse
I am 100% sure that I will receive the $127,000 latest in 2016, as I have access to a large pool of accomplices. Even if the one or other prefer to try to submerge, there will be enough left and it is unlike more expensive try to submerge for the next years than $12,700. Not to mention how much nerves this will cost and the remaining risk to get catched one day regardless.
As soon as I receive the first $12,700, I will give the $2,000 owed to HipAintCheap and $1,000 to Dan Druff or donate it to the pokerfraudalert freerolls.
Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer and this is not a legal advice
Wasn't Weisner cashing people out at vig rates? I remember also she was requesting stakes on 2 plus 2 but refusing lock money. Oberstadt wore a lock patch in world series on a deep run when it was more then obvious no one getting paid. I don't have a shred of sympathy for these 2 , I doubt tower will get any money though hope he does. Tower why are you so confident they will pay you off? Wouldn't they have to do that with more people then?
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