and dont forget to remember that i rassle wild hogs and i will find you if you done stole from me
Druff, seriously...
http://pokerfraudalert.com/forum/sho...ed-some-advice
BAN HIM DAN
I have been on the fence regarding the jsearles ban.
I definitely don't want people scamming through this site, and will ban anyone who does so.
The question is: Was this a scam?
As has already been seen, I agreed with almost everyone else's assessment that jsearles pulled a scummy move on vegas1369, and does indeed owe him $500.
Was it an unethical angle shot? Yes.
Was it a bet welching? Yes.
But does it qualify as a scam? That's a bit harder to say.
Some scams are obvious. If jsearles had said, "Hey Vegas1369, send me $500 on Hero Poker and I'll send you $500 on Paypal", and then refused to send him the Paypal, that would be a scam, and I would snap-ban him.
If he had said, "Hey Vegas1369, let's bet on tonight's Red Sox/Yankees game. If the Sox win, I'll send you $500, and if they lose, you send me $500", and then he refused to pay upon the Red Sox winning, that would also be a scam. Again, he would be snap-banned.
In this case, they weren't betting on something that was going to happen. They were betting on something that had already happened. vegas1369 thought he was making a good bet because he already knew he won (very possibly based upon prior research). jsearles thought he was making a good bet because he either stupidly believed he hadn't actually misused "than/then" all that often, or because he was wording it in a way where he thought he was pulling the perfect angle-shot. There's no question that the unethical one in the situation was jsearles, and that he owes the money. But was it a scam? Or was he just being an idiot thinking he was wording something oddly and giving himself a cheap prop bet win?
After reading everything, I decided that jsearles was indeed an asshole in the whole thing, and definitely owed vegas1369 $500, but that it wasn't quite ban-worthy. I felt that a "Scammer" rank and the public scorn of the community was enough. However, I did plan to ban him if he attempted to make any more prop bets.
I am starting to have a change of heart, though. Today's thread about winning $520 really bothered me, as it seems to be a clear shot at vegas1369, which I think is highly inappropriate. It's bad enough to welch on a bet, but to taunt the person you welched on in a public forum is beyond shitty. I don't buy his explanation that he was just asking for advice on running shoes, either. A ban might be forthcoming.
Keep in mind that, even though jsearles thinks I hate him, I really don't want to ban him here. He has made some good posts on this forum -- pretty much when he wasn't trolling Chinamaniac or vegas1369. Unfortunately, he seems to want to keep rubbing salt in the wounds of the bet welching situation, and that's something I just can't have here.
He should definitely be banned. I dont think anyone here would disagree.
Even if he is just a welsher, should pokerfraudalert.com allow that?
I think it was a form of scamming and he should be banned.
I appreciate your forthright response here Druff. I think your read is spot on on most of this. I will attempt to clarify a few points. One, if you think Vegas possibly researched this before offering the bet, isnt that also an angle shot? Knowing the precise outcome before making a bet because he pre-researched it? This is no different then what I did IMO. I capitalized on the wording of the bet and allowed him to enter into something different then he thought he was. I could concede that someone might consider that an angle shot. Vegas pre researching would also be an angle shot. Vegas clearly never intended to pay as he didnt ask for escrow which would almost clearly be done 100% of the time in this type of situation. That only lends credence to the fact that he may have pre-researched.
Just to clarify, Vegas offered the bet. You are saying here that I worded it oddly, I merely accepted the odd wording.Originally Posted by DanDruff
Secondly, if in your mind I dont quite meet the threshhold of scammer, is it really fair to label me a scammer? Shouldnt my title more aptly be "grammatically challenged angle shooter?" Im not necessarily even agreeing to this, it just seems odd that you dont think I meet the threshold of scammer yet you label me a scammer?
Furthermore, if anything I have been a pretty open book here. I will admit that the card story was a semi shot at Vegas. I honestly won $556 at the tables last night, I felt like bragging a little, I thought it would blow the forums mind that i would post my own pic, and believe it or not the solicited shoe/treadmill advice was legit. I agree that this may have been rubbing a little salt in the wounds, but you must remember I honestly dont think I owe the guy $500. I could see where someone who thinks that I do owe would take offense to this move today. Sometimes people say no offense, but sometimes offense is intended.
And lastly I will make a small case for not being banned going forward.
Originally Posted by TonybagadonutsOriginally Posted by Fluffer
My point with these quotes is we cant all get along or this place will quickly become incredibly boring, with 20 posters dancing around in a circle jerk singing Kumbaya. Jewdonk type stuff is too far, and I understand that. I dont believe I am even in his neighborhood at this point.
Thank you for your honest consideration
Last edited by jsearles22; 05-26-2012 at 06:49 PM.
It's hilarious that we as a society think everyone can be a dr, a lawyer, an engineer. Some people are just fucking stupid. Why can't we just accept that?
You accepted the bet, you didnt pay, you rubbed it in.
You should be gone. Anyone disagree?
Do you agree that he scammed Vegas1369?
I want to clarify something here... I 100% did not research his posts before making that bet, and this is something that REALLY pisses me off about the whole thing. Had I only been able to find 24 or less posts with the then/than mistake I would have, without question, shipped this asshole $500. I admittedly ran a search on then and than under jsearles before the bet took place, which I have posted about numerous times now, and I came up completely empty. Please try running a search on this yourself and you will see the search function will not come up with anything because the word is too common. This is why I chose the $500 number, because I knew how involved it was going to be to find 25 misuses of this term under him, and $500 was the number I felt comfortable with for having to waste a night away looking for this shit. If I lost, so be it. Think about it for a second, I am not going to sit here all night researching that mistake BEFORE I know he is going to take the bet. Did I feel confident I would find 25 misuses? Yes. Did I for sure know I would find them? Absolutely not.
So on top of me wasting hours of my life looking for these mistakes with the threat of losing $500 and eventually never getting paid, now this asshole is 100% making posts rubbing salt in the wounds, but can still run around here with no repercussions except for a special title. Awesome.
Last edited by vegas1369; 05-26-2012 at 09:40 PM.
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