Question: Outting a scammer....

Hey guys.

I thought this would be the perfect community to get a little bit of advise from regarding a scammer.

I am part of several private poker Facebook groups, and among those groups, people trade for online funds. Paypal, Venmo, CQP, etc. (I'm well aware of all the risk involved in trading with these methods.)

Whenever I initiate a trade with someone, I normally do a little homework on who I'm trading with. I had someone contact me and I was in the middle of something but they wanted funds. It was a rather small amount, so they sent my preferred method, and I in turn sent the ACR funds. The trade was successful. I did NOT get scammed. However once I got the time, I still decided to look the guy up. What I found was shocking.....

So I did a google search of the guys name and put "scammer" at the end. An old 2010 2+2 thread came up outing that this guy had several known 2+2 accounts and was a scammer. He was also scamming people on craigslist with fraudulent airline tickets and was eventually caught for that as well, and was actually convicted of fraud (I know this because I found the public court records). He actually spent jail/prison time for his fraud, and from the look of his sentence, he is still on probation.

I confronted him about this through PMs and he begged, begged, begged me not to post anything. He claims to have turned a new leaf and has been scam free for the past 3 years (since he's been released from prison) and that if his PO finds out that he's even playing poker that he can get put back in prison. I told him that just because he's went to prison, and paying restitution to those he scammed (on craigslist) that it doesn't make it right with those he scammed in the poker community.

I suggested that he post in the old 2+2 thread admitting that he was wrong, and willing to make it right by making payments. I stated that as long as he does this, I would not personally post anything publicly. As if I post anything publicly, there is a chance that he goes back to jail/prison for breaking parole and then there is ::Insert sound bite:: 0.0 ::/Sound bite:: chance of anyone getting repaid.

Or should I just publicly out him and not even give him a chance?

I assume that he's the guy that just posted in the 2+2 thread.

The objective with a scammer is if they really are willing to pay back then people shouldn't do anything to jeopardize this from happening by pissing them off.

You requested he post and as long as he does that then give him a chance to make things as right as he can since this is the only way people will possibly get any money back from him. He may dodge paying back more but the possibility of people getting money is better then having no chance at all.

I'm not saying it's right because it's not but many gamblers actually have no intentions of stealing the money they just feel they are going to win and they know the only way to keep themselves in action is to borrow. Once the money is gone because things didn't work out like they visioned they get themselves in an impossible spot to pay back to where they will rob Peter to pay Paul only Paul never gets paid back because they dig themselves an even bigger hole.

The moral of the story is anytime you do a transaction or loan a gambler money you are risking not seeing it ever come back to you. If they are a friend then you risk losing their friendship over this. All you can do is your research and then decide whether or not you want to work with them.

my only thing is, why you bringing the guys P.O. into it in the first place? Did he scam you? no he didn't. the guy just wants to play poker. bfd. Had you done the due-dilligence you did after the transaction with him, you wouldn't have transacted with him in the first place, and then really wouldn't have a leg to stand on at all (not saying you do now, re: turning him in.)

really. Also, telling his P.O. could be a waste of time for you, unless you wanna go and testify at a probation (or parole, i forget which and I dont wanna go back and look) hearing which would ensue after you tell his officer, if you can even locate him.

point is, don't fuckin' get a guy thrown back into the system after he's paid his debt for whatever crime landed him there. yeah it sucks he scammed poker players, but he didn't scam you. If they wanna go and make the universe right in their eyes and get him in trouble, then let them. at least they have a legit beef.

you however, don't.

OP, would you act the same way if one of the conditions of his probation was drug testing, and you saw him smoking a joint? Would you want to turn him into his P.O. for it?

edit:
I want to clarify that i'm not on the side of the guy he wants to out as a scammer. I'm just against the idea of trying to turn him into his P.O.

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Originally Posted by LarryLaffer

my only thing is, why you bringing the guys P.O. into it in the first place? Did he scam you? no he didn't. the guy just wants to play poker. bfd. Had you done the due-dilligence you did after the transaction with him, you wouldn't have transacted with him in the first place, and then really wouldn't have a leg to stand on at all (not saying you do now, re: turning him in.)

really. Also, telling his P.O. could be a waste of time for you, unless you wanna go and testify at a probation (or parole, i forget which and I dont wanna go back and look) hearing which would ensue after you tell his officer, if you can even locate him.

point is, don't fuckin' get a guy thrown back into the system after he's paid his debt for whatever crime landed him there. yeah it sucks he scammed poker players, but he didn't scam you. If they wanna go and make the universe right in their eyes and get him in trouble, then let them. at least they have a legit beef.

you however, don't.

OP, would you act the same way if one of the conditions of his probation was drug testing, and you saw him smoking a joint? Would you want to turn him into his P.O. for it?

edit:
I want to clarify that i'm not on the side of the guy he wants to out as a scammer. I'm just against the idea of trying to turn him into his P.O.

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I know you get a hard on from posting any nonsense that runs through your head but could you try reading the fucking op before posting a 5 paragraph essay.

He didn't bring the guy's PO into the discussion. The scammer panicked and outed that his PO would probably throw him back in the clink if he found out. The only thing the OP said was that he would publicly out him. Made no mention of contacting his PO

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Originally Posted by RealTalk

I know you get a hard on from posting any nonsense that runs through your head but could you try reading the fucking op before posting a 5 paragraph essay.

He didn't bring the guy's PO into the discussion. The scammer panicked and outed that his PO would probably throw him back in the clink if he found out. The only thing the OP said was that he would publicly out him. Made no mention of contacting his PO

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The OP absolutely brought Matthew's parole into the discussion.

The OP very specifically said that by posting it that there was a chance that the guy would go back to prison. Then he finished by asking if he should just publicly out him so that the guy doesn't even get a chance. Reporting him is reporting him regardless if it's done directly or indirectly.

If this guy has truly reformed, paid his debt to society, and is actually working to pay his debt to his victims then there is no reason why someone, who wasn't even affected by the crimes, should self-righteously destroy him and screw over his victims by reporting him for a parole violation.

show me where he says anything about contacting this guy's parole officer.

i doubt the parole officer is trolling around 2p2 or infiltrating private facebook poker groups to sniff out any potential scamming and throw this guy back in prison for playing poker. to me it sounds more like a desperate excuse to avoid embarrassment/scrutiny from his transfer and poker circles - and/or an attempt to keep the OP from outing him and killing his ability to xfer funds, or in a worst case scenario, his ability to perpetuate another scam.

also, you don't think the guys transferring have a right to know that they are doing transactions with a confirmed scammer, reformed or not?

maybe they need to do their due diligence like the OP, but i sure as hell would want to know if i'm sending money to a guy that has a confirmed history of scamming in these exact spots and would appreciate someone giving me a heads up if they found out. how is it going to look for the OP if this guy scams again and he has to make the "sorry, i knew he was a scammer but didnt think it was fair to tell you guys" post?

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Originally Posted by RealTalk

I know you get a hard on from posting any nonsense that runs through your head but could you try reading the fucking op before posting a 5 paragraph essay.

He didn't bring the guy's PO into the discussion. The scammer panicked and outed that his PO would probably throw him back in the clink if he found out. The only thing the OP said was that he would publicly out him. Made no mention of contacting his PO

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So I did a google search of the guys name and put "scammer" at the end. An old 2010 2+2 thread came up outing that this guy had several known 2+2 accounts and was a scammer. He was also scamming people on craigslist with fraudulent airline tickets and was eventually caught for that as well, and was actually convicted of fraud (I know this because I found the public court records). He actually spent jail/prison time for his fraud, and from the look of his sentence, he is still on probation.

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i'm pretty sure I'm reading that correctly. he is the one who did the investigating AFTER the transaction took place with ZERO problems.

I'm sure after he told the guy he knew he was on probation it wasn't long before the scammer said something about his P.O. he obviously had enough information to find him.

I was just on probation. I know exactly how it works. If you know what county someone was convicted in or even a case number (which OP obvs did) then finding a P.O. is a phone call away. But the P.O. can't show up in court and say someone told him the scammer was playing poker. that's hear-say. the OP has to go in for the hearing, or at least take the time to go sign an affidavit at the courthouse or wherever. That's how it works. in any jurisdiction. Parole or Probation. it's basically the same thing. the only difference between the 2 being how much your P.O. has contact with you. Parolees are the ones who see their p.o. a lot more often.

having now basically repeated my first post, i still stand by it, leave the guys fucking p.o. out of it.

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Originally Posted by RealTalk

show me where he says anything about contacting this guy's parole officer.

i doubt the parole officer is trolling around 2p2 or infiltrating private facebook poker groups to sniff out any potential scamming and throw this guy back in prison for playing poker. to me it sounds more like a desperate excuse to avoid embarrassment/scrutiny from his transfer and poker circles - and/or an attempt to keep the OP from outing him and killing his ability to xfer funds, or in a worst case scenario, his ability to perpetuate another scam.

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The OP stated that he would publicize what he knew with at least the partial intention of getting the parole officer involved. That doesn't mean that the OP would necessarily be the one to drop the dime; he's simply threatening to create a situation where someone will do it.

The OP contacted the guy to threaten him, not to trade recipes.

As a condition of his parole, Matthew has to pay back about $17,000 to his victims. I'm saying just let him do it.

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Originally Posted by SantaCruz

I assume that he's the guy that just posted in the 2+2 thread.

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Correct. In the Internet Poker thread.

My intention was never to get this guy in trouble with his PO. I didn't even know he was on parole when I confronted him.

No, I was not scammed, but I feel that being an active member in a community that deals with buying/selling/trading funds online that I have some sort of responsibility of making the community aware what this guy is capable of.

This guy was ordered to pay restitution to his victims in another scam that dealt with selling fraudulent airline tickets on Craigslist, but he was never ordered to pay back any of the people he scammed in the poker community and I just don't think it's right that he gets to come back in into the poker community incognito to a majority of the community (he wasn't even going by his real name on Facebook).

I done some looking back at past trades he's done on the Facebook page and in his 2 years of trading there hasn't been any scams that I can see. So what I decided to do was 1, have him post on the 6 year old 2+2 thread asking for his victims to come forward so he can work out something with them to make it right and 2, let the admins/moderators of the Facebook page know and they could handle it how they see fit.

The only time I ever "threatened" this guy was after he went off on me saying if I out him I'm going to fuck up everything, ruin his life, etc...I threatened that if I did hear of another scam I would directly content his PO.

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Originally Posted by AhoosierA

My intention was never to get this guy in trouble with his PO. I didn't even know he was on parole when I confronted him.

No, I was not scammed, but I feel that being an active member in a community that deals with buying/selling/trading funds online that I have some sort of responsibility of making the community aware what this guy is capable of.

This guy was ordered to pay restitution to his victims in another scam that dealt with selling fraudulent airline tickets on Craigslist, but he was never ordered to pay back any of the people he scammed in the poker community and I just don't think it's right that he gets to come back in into the poker community incognito to a majority of the community (he wasn't even going by his real name on Facebook).

I done some looking back at past trades he's done on the Facebook page and in his 2 years of trading there hasn't been any scams that I can see. So what I decided to do was 1, have him post on the 6 year old 2+2 thread asking for his victims to come forward so he can work out something with them to make it right and 2, let the admins/moderators of the Facebook page know and they could handle it how they see fit.

The only time I ever "threatened" this guy was after he went off on me saying if I out him I'm going to fuck up everything, ruin his life, etc...I threatened that if I did hear of another scam I would directly content his PO.

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No, you didn't only threaten to contact his PO if he did another scam. You clearly stated that as long as he did what you wanted him to do that you wouldn't post anything publically.

You had a right to call his parole officer. And you had a right to write whatever post that you wanted. But what you didn't have a right to do was to contact him and threaten to out him if he didn't comply with your wishes. That's blackmail. The real irony here is that if the law does get involved in this, you might find yourself facing some charges.

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Originally Posted by SantaCruz

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Originally Posted by AhoosierA

My intention was never to get this guy in trouble with his PO. I didn't even know he was on parole when I confronted him.

No, I was not scammed, but I feel that being an active member in a community that deals with buying/selling/trading funds online that I have some sort of responsibility of making the community aware what this guy is capable of.

This guy was ordered to pay restitution to his victims in another scam that dealt with selling fraudulent airline tickets on Craigslist, but he was never ordered to pay back any of the people he scammed in the poker community and I just don't think it's right that he gets to come back in into the poker community incognito to a majority of the community (he wasn't even going by his real name on Facebook).

I done some looking back at past trades he's done on the Facebook page and in his 2 years of trading there hasn't been any scams that I can see. So what I decided to do was 1, have him post on the 6 year old 2+2 thread asking for his victims to come forward so he can work out something with them to make it right and 2, let the admins/moderators of the Facebook page know and they could handle it how they see fit.

The only time I ever "threatened" this guy was after he went off on me saying if I out him I'm going to fuck up everything, ruin his life, etc...I threatened that if I did hear of another scam I would directly content his PO.

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No, you didn't only threaten to contact his PO if he did another scam. You clearly stated that as long as he did what you wanted him to do that you wouldn't post anything publically.

You had a right to call his parole officer. And you had a right to write whatever post that you wanted. But what you didn't have a right to do was to contact him and threaten to out him if he didn't comply with your wishes. That's blackmail. The real irony here is that if the law does get involved in this, you might find yourself facing some charges.

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You should really look up the definition of blackmail before you make yourself look like a bigger twat. I don't gain anything by essentially making himself come clean to those he scammed. Nor does me outing him say anything false or defamatory.

I assume you think those that had no money locked up on Full Tilt have no reason to think Howard Ledwrer or Chris Ferguson are scumbags have no right to that opinion because they had no financial interest in it? GTFO troll

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Originally Posted by AhoosierA

You should really look up the definition of blackmail before you make yourself look like a bigger twat. I don't gain anything by essentially making himself come clean to those he scammed. Nor does me outing him say anything false or defamatory.

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As a journalist, of course I know exactly what blackmail is and I know exactly how it is used in practice. And unlike you, I followed the whole Matthew story back when it was happening; I didn't just stumble on it recently like you did.

Blackmail is very often used to collect debts owed to the blackmailer or debts owed to others. That's exactly what you did.

The statute of limitations is long over for repayment of any money that wasn't covered in the ruling. Although ethically Matthew still owes his victims, legally he no longer owes the people, not covered in the ruling, anything. It was for his victims, not you, to recover their losses. You jumped into something you clearly don't even understand.

It's your complete ignorance that is showing here. To blackmail someone and then brag about it in the forums is something incredibly stupid. Blackmail has absolutely nothing to do with saying anything "false or defamatory" as you state in your post. You're confusing blackmail with libel and slander. As a matter of fact what the blackmailer uses to blackmail is seldom false.

Please don't lie to me. You didn't just ask Matthew to come clean to those he scammed. You stated that he'd need to, ",,,make it right by making payments. I stated that as long as he does this, I would not personally post anything publicly." What you said there is practically the definition of blackmail.

You started this thread under the guise of asking for advice. I gave you good advice. But in reality you just came here to brag. Be honest with yourself. You're doing this because you want to be seen as some kind of hero in the poker community.

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Originally Posted by AhoosierA

I assume you think those that had no money locked up on Full Tilt have no reason to think Howard Ledwrer or Chris Ferguson are scumbags have no right to that opinion because they had no financial interest in it? GTFO troll

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We aren't talking about opinions here. If you were to threaten Howard Lederer or Chris Ferguson with publicly disclosing anything about them, whether it's an indiscretion or a law they broke, in order to collect money you felt was owed to you or anyone else, you'd probably find yourself in prison pretty quick.

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Originally Posted by RealTalk

show me where he says anything about contacting this guy's parole officer.

i doubt the parole officer is trolling around 2p2 or infiltrating private facebook poker groups to sniff out any potential scamming and throw this guy back in prison for playing poker. to me it sounds more like a desperate excuse to avoid embarrassment/scrutiny from his transfer and poker circles - and/or an attempt to keep the OP from outing him and killing his ability to xfer funds, or in a worst case scenario, his ability to perpetuate another scam.

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Originally Posted by RealTalk

also, you don't think the guys transferring have a right to know that they are doing transactions with a confirmed scammer, reformed or not?

maybe they need to do their due diligence like the OP, but i sure as hell would want to know if i'm sending money to a guy that has a confirmed history of scamming in these exact spots and would appreciate someone giving me a heads up if they found out. how is it going to look for the OP if this guy scams again and he has to make the "sorry, i knew he was a scammer but didnt think it was fair to tell you guys" post?

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:this

This guy should not be doing trades with anyone at this point, unless everyone is fully aware of his past and are okay with it.

For that reason alone, he should be outed.

I do not even believe the parole officer story. I bet that is just an excuse to get you to feel sorry for him, and not out his past.

As I always like to say on the radio show, "Scammers love secrets".

If I'm gonna look this story up, anyone have a link or matthew's last name? It's not marafiotti, is it?

It's Matsch.

This is a link to the 2+2 thread about him:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...victed-338205/


This is his mugshot:
http://mugshots.com/US-Counties/Wisc...h.3451213.html

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

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Originally Posted by RealTalk

also, you don't think the guys transferring have a right to know that they are doing transactions with a confirmed scammer, reformed or not?

maybe they need to do their due diligence like the OP, but i sure as hell would want to know if i'm sending money to a guy that has a confirmed history of scamming in these exact spots and would appreciate someone giving me a heads up if they found out. how is it going to look for the OP if this guy scams again and he has to make the "sorry, i knew he was a scammer but didnt think it was fair to tell you guys" post?

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:this

This guy should not be doing trades with anyone at this point, unless everyone is fully aware of his past and are okay with it.

For that reason alone, he should be outed.

I do not even believe the parole officer story. I bet that is just an excuse to get you to feel sorry for him, and not out his past.

As I always like to say on the radio show, "Scammers love secrets".

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you never believe anything it seems. so at face value, what you believe and not believe is moot, because your go-to line is always something about how skeptical you seem to feel about something.

What is it about the parole officer story don't you believe? the facts are there, we can see the court documents.

and

The OP didn't do any "due-dilligence" until AFTER the transaction. So, fuck that shit. he gets no sympathy for doing business with a scammer and he for sure gets no credit for the try of using the parole officer and possible violations for playing poker as a means to get other people paid. that's bullshit right there. What is this? Another Game Protect? trying to get money back from scammers for a price? GMAFB

the scammer scammed. paid his debt to society (even when on Parole, you don't get to parole unless you've paid some of your debt to society, parole being the last bit of change in the pocket so to speak) and as Santa Cruz said, the statute of limitations is up. Plain and simple.

So, OP, get off the high horse and think about a few things:

1: don't be fucking stupid and research people before you trade with them
2: don't try and railroad a guy back into the system because you seem to think he owes more to society then is currently paying
3: take off the cape, you're no hero.