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Worth a listen. Mason talks about some business he had with Annie in the mid-90's, with predictable results. From the pokercast at 4.
MP3 file: http://twitc.com/me/821751602678/pokercastmal.mp3
Touches on some other stuff, like Dutch and the lawsuit at the very end.
20 minutes-ish.
hof
Cliffs that I got so far
-Mason was 1/3 of 330k investment for pokerworld magazine
-Lederer was 1/3 investor and sought 1/3 of board membership
-Duke convinced other 1/3 investor to give her full control so she could make the company 5 million in a year instead of steady 100k a year
-Mason sells shares
-Annie bankrupts company spending crazy $$$ on advertising AND SHE PAID HERSELF 40k a year
-Annie gets sued by multiple companies too and they tried to sue Mason
-Mason says Negreanu saying people should get hit by bats is despicable and he has been detrimental in some ways to the FTP situation
Mason says Annie Duke is dishonest, Daniel Negreanu displays bad behavior and Howard Lederer is honorable. Mason also thinks he won vs. Dutch Boyd. Mason actually lost.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowe Diddly
In my opinion, Malmuth's heavy handed approach in dealing with the relatively minor Dutch Boyd domain name incident reveals why the purveyor of two plus two has such a terrible reputation with some in the poker world.
I've never met Mason Malmuth. I have read his books. They are very good. Still, some feel Mason Malmuth is one of the biggest assholes in poker.
A little digging reveals why.
Another Pathetic Mason Malmuth Tale Unfolding...
Mason Malmuth Scrapping TwoPlusTwo Strategy Archives?...
The Five Most Hated People in Poker...
Dutch Boyd made virtually no money off the disputed domain name and actually returned it to Mason's lawyers BEFORE the lawsuit. There was no harm, no foul.
Yet Malmuth wanted big money from Dutch to end the dispute. What kind of man behaves this way?
Dutch did not buckle under Malmuth's legal threats so Mason instructed his lawyers to go full throttle with a lawsuit over a $10 domain name.
Mason Malmuth wasted time and tens of thousands of dollars over nothing.
He 'wins' a summary judgment against Dutch Boyd. I think he was awarded @$34,000 in lawyer fees and $25,000 in statutory damages. It gets some press so Mason feels like a winner. He is not.
Dutch Boyd is a very intelligent man. He graduated from law school at 18!
He knows he can appeal the summary judgement. He knows if a bond is required there are exceptions made for financial hardship. Dutch can drag this out for as long as he desires. During the appeal process Mason cannot execute the judgement. He can't collect a dime.
Plus, Dutch Boyd holds an ace in the hole. If he doesn't prevail in his appeals, he can file bankruptcy at any time. It's inexpensive to do so and it will wipe out Mason Malmuth's judgment.
Malmuth will get nothing, nada, zippo. He will be left with @$34,000 (much more with appeals) in lawyer fees and the knowledge that he is a laughingstock in the poker community.
Mason Malmuth can't win.
However, if you've ever read his books, you know the guy is smart. So why would Mason Malmuth waste so much time and so much money over a trivial dispute he knows he can't win?
Perhaps it's because the guy is just a certifiable first class asshole.
In addition to writing the 5 most hated people article cited above, here is another classic example of Malmuthian douchebaggery involving Haley Hintze from my blog: http://burbspoker.blogspot.com/2011/...self-into.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by SixToedPeteMason says Annie Duke is dishonest, Daniel Negreanu displays bad behavior and Howard Lederer is honorable. Mason also thinks he won vs. Dutch Boyd. Mason actually lost.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowe Diddly
In my opinion, Malmutt's heavy handed approach in dealing with the relatively minor Dutch Boyd domain name incident reveals why the purveyor of two plus two has such a terrible reputation with some in the poker world.
I've never met Mason Malmutt. I have read his books. They are very good. Still, some feel Mason Malmutt is one of the biggest assholes in poker.
A little digging reveals why.
Another Pathetic Mason Malmuth Tale Unfolding...
Mason Malmuth Scrapping TwoPlusTwo Strategy Archives?...
The Five Most Hated People in Poker...
Dutch Boyd made virtually no money off the disputed domain name and actually returned it to Mason's lawyers BEFORE the lawsuit. There was no harm, no foul.
Yet Malmutt wanted big money from Dutch to end the dispute. What kind of man behaves this way?
Dutch did not buckle under Malmutt's legal threats so Mason instructed his lawyers to go full throttle with a lawsuit over a $10 domain name.
Mason Malmutt wasted time and tens of thousands of dollars over nothing.
He 'wins' a summary judgment against Dutch Boyd. I think he was awarded @$34,000 in lawyer fees and $25,000 in statutory damages. It gets some press so Mason feels like a winner. He is not.
Dutch Boyd is a very intelligent man. He graduated from law school at 18!
He knows he can appeal the summary judgement. He knows if a bond is required there are exceptions made for financial hardship. Dutch can drag this out for as long as he desires. During the appeal process Mason cannot execute the judgement. He can't collect a dime.
Plus, Dutch Boyd holds an ace in the hole. If he doesn't prevail in his appeals, he can file bankruptcy at any time. It's inexpensive to do so and it will wipe out Mason Malmutt's judgment.
Malmutt will get nothing, nada, zippo. He will be left with @$34,000 (much more with appeals) in lawyer fees and the knowledge that he is a laughingstock in the poker community.
Mason Malmutt can't win.
However, if you've ever read his books, you know the guy is smart. So why would Mason Malmutt waste so much time and so much money over a trivial dispute he knows he can't win?
Perhaps it's because the guy is just a certifiable first class asshole.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SixToedPeteMason says Annie Duke is dishonest, Daniel Negreanu displays bad behavior and Howard Lederer is honorable. Mason also thinks he won vs. Dutch Boyd. Mason actually lost.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowe Diddly
In my opinion, Malmutt's heavy handed approach in dealing with the relatively minor Dutch Boyd domain name incident reveals why the purveyor of two plus two has such a terrible reputation with some in the poker world.
I've never met Mason Malmutt. I have read his books. They are very good. Still, some feel Mason Malmutt is one of the biggest assholes in poker.
A little digging reveals why.
Another Pathetic Mason Malmuth Tale Unfolding...
Mason Malmuth Scrapping TwoPlusTwo Strategy Archives?...
The Five Most Hated People in Poker...
Dutch Boyd made virtually no money off the disputed domain name and actually returned it to Mason's lawyers BEFORE the lawsuit. There was no harm, no foul.
Yet Malmutt wanted big money from Dutch to end the dispute. What kind of man behaves this way?
Dutch did not buckle under Malmutt's legal threats so Mason instructed his lawyers to go full throttle with a lawsuit over a $10 domain name.
Mason Malmutt wasted time and tens of thousands of dollars over nothing.
He 'wins' a summary judgment against Dutch Boyd. I think he was awarded @$34,000 in lawyer fees and $25,000 in statutory damages. It gets some press so Mason feels like a winner. He is not.
Dutch Boyd is a very intelligent man. He graduated from law school at 18!
He knows he can appeal the summary judgement. He knows if a bond is required there are exceptions made for financial hardship. Dutch can drag this out for as long as he desires. During the appeal process Mason cannot execute the judgement. He can't collect a dime.
Plus, Dutch Boyd holds an ace in the hole. If he doesn't prevail in his appeals, he can file bankruptcy at any time. It's inexpensive to do so and it will wipe out Mason Malmutt's judgment.
Malmutt will get nothing, nada, zippo. He will be left with @$34,000 (much more with appeals) in lawyer fees and the knowledge that he is a laughingstock in the poker community.
Mason Malmutt can't win.
However, if you've ever read his books, you know the guy is smart. So why would Mason Malmutt waste so much time and so much money over a trivial dispute he knows he can't win?
Perhaps it's because the guy is just a certifiable first class asshole.
Just logged in to say that I am becoming a fan of sixtoedpete.
That is all.
I was trying to work out the motivation for the Mason domain name bullshit.Quote:
Originally Posted by SixToedPete
There's been two cases brought - Dutch Boyd and Anthony Scocozza. Why go after these guys? I've got a feeling it might be because of their close association with Donkdown. Boyd has been a known guest on radio over the years. Scocozza is a pseudonym for a long standing donkdown forum member.
Mason's hatred for the site is well known. He must hate the fact that all the stuff he wants to censor on 4 just crops up on donkdown (and no doubt on PFA now too). I wonder whether he just threw money at these cases as a warning shot to others, that he will go after anyone who doesn't subscribe to the Mason way of thinking with his big gun lawyers.
It's a poor showing on the legal system that these ruthless pricks with deep pockets can screw over the small guy who has very little protection as they can't afford to defend any action.
Druff correct me if I'm a little wrong here but didn't Sklansky once said he would pay $2000 to cost you $1000.
When you're up against this sort of bullshit with Sklansky/Mallmuth, all logic is left behind.
Druff can best address your theory but I think you're on to something. It's certainly plausible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Belly BusterI was trying to work out the motivation for the Mason domain name bullshit.Quote:
Originally Posted by SixToedPete
There's been two cases brought - Dutch Boyd and Anthony Scocozza. Why go after these guys? I've got a feeling it might be because of their close association with Donkdown. Boyd has been a known guest on radio over the years. Scocozza is a pseudonym for a long standing donkdown forum member.
Mason's hatred for the site is well known. He must hate the fact that all the stuff he wants to censor on 4 just crops up on donkdown (and no doubt on PFA now too). I wonder whether he just threw money at these cases as a warning shot to others, that he will go after anyone who doesn't subscribe to the Mason way of thinking with his big gun lawyers.
It's a poor showing on the legal system that these ruthless pricks with deep pockets can screw over the small guy who has very little protection as they can't afford to defend any action.
Druff correct me if I'm a little wrong here but didn't Sklansky once said he would pay $2000 to cost you $1000.
When you're up against this sort of bullshit with Sklansky/Mallmuth, all logic is left behind.
Thanks for the link Crowe, interesting.
I must admit, there is a part of me that kind of likes Malmuth, despite his decided lack of charisma. Anyone that just doesn't give a fuck if he is liked, runs a conservative, but successful business focusing on what they know, and can clip a low-rent n-word like Boyd, with a history of theft, who is standing on his corner trying to poach earns my respect a little. LOL at Boyd=genius, maybe once, before mental illness and psychiatric drugs addled his brain, but at this point, he's a semi-coherent, rambling, bipolar piss drinker living on stakes/handouts. He wrote all his brilliant legal strategy about how he was going to beat this, and then they took him to the woodshed in court. The money, 34k, is dick to Malmuth to send a message, and highly effective if he doesn't want to see all his books ending up on scribd or other sharing sites. Boyd dinking some tourney isn't out of the realm of possibility either, thus he has a small % to collect. Certainly not a barrel of monkeys, but for a geeky stat guy he has done pretty well for himself in business, particularly when having to keep his freak Sklansky on a leash. I think he can come off as a condescending douche, and I don't agree with all of his actions, but I like what he did with Boyd just on principle.
Dutch Boyd has addressed his online poker start up numerous times. Even his critics admit Dutch didn't take the players' money and run. To be fair, his poker site was screwed by payment processors who did steal players' money. This went on for several weeks before Poker Spot could make adjustments.Quote:
Originally Posted by BCR
It absolutely devastated the business. In an effort to right a sinking ship Boyd admitted he was not honest about the situation in communications with players. Had he revealed his company was the victim of a huge fraud by payment processors, he would have been out of business in 48 hours.
I'm not defending his actions after he realized payment processors had stolen so much money, but I can understand that he was trying to buy time to save the company.
Even after the shit hit the fan, Boyd worked on buy out deals that would have made the players right. However, the investors' draconian demands on Boyd's freedom to earn a living doomed those negotiations.
Sure he made mistakes back when payment processing was a nebulous industry. To the extent that business failure and resulting criticism caused him stress and anxiety is testament to kind of person he is. His anguish showed he was not an amoral conman.
What's lost in the debacle is that Dutch Boyd was a visionary, a pioneer in online poker. He saw the potential long before the poker boom.
I don't agree with your claim that Mason Malmuth's spending $34,000 on a dispute over a $10 domain name, was 'dick' and a 'highly effective way to send a message'.
Dutch had returned the domain name to Mason's lawyers long before the lawsuit was filed. Mason's $34,000 'message' was senseless and foolish. In no way were Malmuth's actions based on 'principle'. He used a sledgehammer to swat a fly. Unfortunately for Malmuth, he missed. The fly will kick his ass.
As I explained in my earlier post, Mason Malmuth cannot win.
:this
In the Malmutt vs Boyd boxing match, Boyd comes out on top, but maybe by a split decision.
BCR maybe you should (re)listen to http://www.donkdown.com/components/c...3_19-04-25.mp3 dutch gives a candid view on events.
So Dutch being in his 30's now, forced to get welfare-level legal support with a back-up plan of declaring bankruptcy that will haunt him until he's 42 years old is a win, and a multi-millionaire spending 34k to bury someone who pissed him off is a loss? Interesting way of keeping score.
I don't give a shit about either, but Mason won't miss the 34k, while Dutch will be sweating his end of this deal.
The only one I feel sorry for is Yebsite, who was obviously framed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belly Buster
I'll give it a listen when I get done watching Ohio State. Thanks for the link.
Nice post Sixtoed, I didn't think it was possible, but I actually hate Mason Mal-piece-of-shit now more than ever.
Agreed, I kind of like Malmuths style. I don't agree with some stuff he does/stands for but the guy just don't give a fuck and sticks to his guns.Quote:
Originally Posted by BCR
GOD
Depends if it's a personal bankruptcy or the company he ran and purchased the site through, JackNames or something it was called.Quote:
Originally Posted by BCR
I have to agree. I wish I was rich and could bury anyone that fucked with me. Dutch is a piece of shit and was trying to make money off Mason's idea and figured no one would ever sue for such a thing, kind of a freeroll. My read is Dutch has done this several times and knew exactly what he was doing. He is the type of guy that is always looking for an angle and thinks he's smarter than everyone else. How can anyone possibly feel sorry for him?Quote:
Originally Posted by chinamaniacAgreed, I kind of like Malmuths style. I don't agree with some stuff he does/stands for but the guy just don't give a fuck and sticks to his guns.Quote:
Originally Posted by BCR
GOD
I'm sure it was never Dutch's 'back-up plan'. If you're at all familiar with our corrupt legal system, you will have to recognize it was the correct legal strategy from the get go.Quote:
Originally Posted by BCR
Your 'bankruptcy that will haunt him until he's 42 years old' remark carries little weight. During these tough economic times there is no stigma attached to filing a bankruptcy. The US economy is bankrupt.
Your 'welfare-level legal support' is also wrong. Dutch Boyd attended college when he was 12-years-old. He graduated law school at 18. He will seek competent legal advice if he wants to but he's also a lawyer and therefore capable of parrying Malmuth's legal 'sledgehammer' with ease.
Yes, throwing $34,000 into the fireplace in a foolish effort to 'bury someone who pissed him off...' is a huge loss.
Dutch Boyd is not sweating 'his end of this deal'. He's cool as a cucumber. Mason Malmuth suffers flop sweat from his ill-advised decision to pursue this doomed, foolish, expensive, no-win legal action.
'Keeping score'? It's already over.
Here's the headline, 'Dutch Boyd Wins In A Rout!'
As soon as you get lawyers involved, no-one wins except the lawyers.
So true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Belly Buster
"The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers" - 'King Henry VI'. (Act IV, Scene II) William Shakespeare.